Compared To Full Crit And Full Pen Builds, Full On-HIt Builds Don't Really Work ATM

ArnoldSchwarzens··25 votes·3,390 views

I think that's a shame. Before, the only one who would make use of a full on-hit build is Kog'Maw because of his old W and the whole double attack speed thing. At the same time, old Kog existing made it impossible for other on-hit items to be added or buffed, because he single-handedly made doing that a death sentence for the game balance.

After the W revert, there are still tons of marksmen and on-hit carries who would love to be able to build a full on-hit build, if only proper items existed for that. Even on the current Kog, which is supposed to be the go-to on-hit carry, you will have to buy crit besides Trinity Force and Blade of the Ruined King to have an effective build and you can't just go full on-hit.

So basically, we need several roles for several items to make the whole on-hit build a thing.

First off, we need a central scaling item, something your whole build scales with, which is very expensive and which spikes the power of every other item in your build. AP champions have Rabadon's, crit champions have Infinity Edge and armor pen builds have Duskblade. On their own, these items might not be that great but once you add other items to your build they become really powerful and make their cost worth it.

Guinsoo's has been described by several Rioters as "The Infinity Edge of On-Hit Builds" ever since it got its rework. Instead, it really is only a niche item for hybrid on-hit champions and even then it's outclassed by other items. Only Kayle and Jax build it, other on-hit carries who are actually supposed to build it like Kog, Vayne, Yi or even Irelia have much better options at their disposal. Plus, if it actually were to be buffed, Jax and Kayle would be overpowered while on the other champions I mentioned that don't have as good AP ratios as Jax and Kayle have, it would really only be decent.

This is why Guinsoo's itself should be changed to a hybrid on-hit item first and foremost and the role of the central scaling item for on-hit builds should be given to another, new item, aswell as the phantom hit passive. I came up with something like this:

Insert Name Here: Build Path: Recurve Bow, Several Daggers Gold Cost: Around 3.6k, should be expensive Stats: 40-60% or more attack speed, 15-40 damage on hit Passive: Autos grant 8-14% attack speed per stack, up to 6 stacks. At 6 stacks, get phantom hit passive.

This is an item that would give you on-hit, an attack speed base, attack speed stacks per auto to give a ton of attack speed when it is fully stacked and it will also grant you the phantom hit passive when it is fully stacked. It would be really powerful but costly and it would only really shine when combined with other on-hit and attack speed items because for the phantom hit to matter, you will need on-hit damage from other sources and you need more attack speed from other items to be able to stack the attack speed that the item itself grants you properly. I know, these values are really shaky but they are only there to demonstrate what the item could look like in game.

Another thing on-hit builds are kinda lacking is sustain and dedicated anti-tank items. There is BotRK but it only is mediocre at both tasks. Its anti-tank on-hit gets countered by armor stacking rather easily and is not really high compared to other on-hit percent damages in the game. The lifesteal is not that useful either, because it only heals off the auto itself and not the on-hit it procs. It only heals off the on-hit that the BotRK itself has, which is not a lot as I already said. Plus, 10% lifesteal is not a lot compared to the 20% that BT gives you. Because there are so much things that BotRK does, everything on it is rather mediocre to keep this overloaded item in check. This is why I think BotRK should be split in two items, one that is dedicated to deal with tanks, the other to give on-hit builds a sustain option.

BotRK Half 1: _Build Path:_Recurve Bow, BIlgewater Cutlass _Gold Cost:_Around 3k or maybe a little less _Stats:_25 AD, 40% or more attack speed Active: Pretty much the same it is right now, maybe make it deal flat damage instead if needed _Passive:_Heal for X% of all on-hit damage dealt ( including sheen, auto resets like Vayne Q, on-hits from other items like Bloodrazor, on-hits in champion kits like Kog or Vayne W, ....)

This is the Bloodthirster of the on-hit build. The % damage is removed and added to the other half of the split BotRK:

BotRK Half 2: _Build Path:_Recurve Bow, Several Daggers _Gold Cost:_Around 2.6-3k, like Van Dominik's or Mortal Reminder Stats: 40% or more attack speed _Passive:_Deal X flat damage + X% of the target's bonus HP as true damage.

The tank killer item, the Void Staff or Last Whisper Item of the on-hit build. It only really is good against armor and HP stacking while being pretty bad at dealing with squishies, just like it's counterparts. I know, %true damage seems scary but keep in mind - if it would be physical or magic damage it would be pretty easy to counter by resistiance stacking which it shouldn't be, since it is made to deal with exactly that. Plus, it's only bonus HP, which makes it much less worrying.

These are just some items that I randomly came up with. If you like them or not does not matter, the items that are listed here are only for demonstration of how much can be made with the on-hit niche. But what's for is sure that something has to be done about on-hit items and something has to be added to the game, if full on-hit carry builds are supposed to become a thing. Now that Kog's W is not insane as it used to be anymore, this is a perfect opportunity to do exactly that.

Anyway, would love to see some of your ideas on what other on-hit items could look like. And please come up with awesome names and ideas for what the icons could look like for my fanmade items because I haven't really thought about it that much.

47 Comments

Rebonack8 votes

The problem with OnHit itemization is that it has no real identity compared to AD/Pen or AD/Crit.

AD/Pen is if you want to make your skills hit like a train. AD/Crit is for making scary auto-attacks.

But what is OnHit for?

Well...

Nothing, really.

What I've been saying since Season 2 or so is that since OnHit will never be able to compete with crit/crit damage/AD then OnHit should instead focus on providing mixed offense and defense. Crit can have its crazy damage, but if you want to be beefy while still having threatening basic attacks? That's what OnHit should be for.

I see Wit's as more or less the baseline of what OnHit itemization should provide a player. Personally, I think a 'new' component item should be created (Recurve plus Dagger) namely, Malady. Malady would simply provide OnHit magic damage and attack speed. Malady in turn would be combined with various defensive items (Negatron, QSS, Warden's Mail, Giant's Belt, ect) to create a collection of magic damage OnHit items that cater to champions who like auto-attacking while eating enemy focus.

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

So it should be less like Bork and more like Wit's End?

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

So it should be less like Bork and more like Wit's End?

Honestly? Yeah, pretty much.

Trying to make BoRK's damage competitive with crit gear will not end well for anyone involved. Crit combined with armor pen is generally superior for tank-busting anyway. And as an added bonus, it rips up soft targets better, too. BoRK is nice because it provides a little bit of everything. Stickiness, lifesteal, attack speed, and solid damage if you aren't interested in investing too heavily in offense. Unfortunately, because it provides a little bit of everything it doesn't do any one thing well, either.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if there are a few offensively focused OnHit items. But like Maw, they should be the exception rather than the rule.

On BoRK, I would probably split it into item 3144 + item 3101 and item 3134 + item 1043 + item 1053. One a kiting tool, the other for dealing with low armor, high HP targets.

The Blue Rajah1 votes

What's the point of adding malady when recurve now already fills the role of "attack speed + on hit damage component item"?

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Blue Rajah,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UiqIJ7pB,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-09-25T06:09:36.362+0000)

What's the point of adding malady when recurve now already fills the role of "attack speed + on hit damage component item"?

  1. Because it's physical damage. Let it build into the various physical damage OnHits clarity!

  2. Because it unifies builds. Malady + Defensive item is pretty straight forward.

  3. Because it clears up inventory space. Recurve + Dagger + Defensive item takes up quite a bit of room.

  4. Because the extra step helps reinforce the mid-game focus of OnHit items.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Only if you inhibit ranged champions somehow. I don't need a bruiser Kog or Kayle shitting on my team with onhits while being unburstable.

LazyW0lf1 votes

On-hit items were generally niche picks though. Only on a select few champions were they necessarily "core". It's also the problem that there's far too much damage in the game; burst is king this season and on-hit builds favor drawn out fights.

You picked up item 3153 instead of item 3072 if they were HP stacking.

item 3091 was nice to have for mixed damage while also giving some MR.

item 3124 was good in extended fights where you could utilize the passive and the added stats

item 3115 was nice for melee mages at the time (until Azir came and forced changes)

They filled a certain niche they were supposed to until trouble cases came along (looking at you, reworked KogMaw ) in which case, the response was to nerf on-hit so that the certain champ wasn't stupidly overpowered which shafted those who used them for niche purposes.

Saianna1 votes

AD/Crit is for making scary auto-attacks.

...Really? You somehow can't find a reason why someone would buy On-Hit over AD/crit? If not, then lemme help you.

AS/On-Hit is when you enjoy 2,5 AS spraying and want to minimize luck-part from random crits.

And it CAN be balanced (ofc not by that retarded Guinsoo item). Thing is.. Riot doesn't really care.. For them AS/On-Hit =/= ADC. No ADC = No Love. And on top of that we got only handful of "true" AS/On-Hit champions

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

...Really? You somehow can't find a reason why someone would buy On-Hit over AD/crit? If not, then lemme help you.

And it CAN be balanced (ofc not by that retarded Guinsoo item). Thing is.. Riot doesn't really care.. For them AS/On-Hit =/= ADC. No ADC = No Love. And on top of that we got only handful of "true" AS/On-Hit champions

You buy OnHit because you want a potent mid-game power spike. As opposed to balls to the walls late game scaling that's acquired by running Crit. You want mixed damage when you aren't planning on investing in percentile armor pen. In both of these situations, going with a little bit of offense and a lot of defense is a pretty swell idea.

The mid-game focus of OnHit items lends itself perfectly to making them bruiser-focused. Again, a few pure offensive OnHit items is fine. But if you're trying to make them compete with late game Crit damage, then they will have to be hilariously over-tuned (see: the previous iteration of Rageblade).

I personally don't feel like Riot should even be trying to make BorK attractive to ADCs. For ADCs, IAS/Crit and IAS/AD are both more appealing. The only guy who really breaks that rule is this asshole Ezreal because of how his Q works. Maybe some day Riot will remake his Q for the same reason they re-reworked Kog's W, because it breaks itemization for everyone else.

DemoGuide1 votes

Never forget malady. Never forget malady rework.

Naag One2 votes

On hit is to kill ridiculous shit tanks like a fed/full build Volibear Maokai Illaoi DrMundo Malphite Nautilus Sejuani Shen TahmKench Rammus if you don't have a tanky support to save ur squishy ass when caught.
RIP Sated devourer. Sated TwistedFate never forget!

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Naag One,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UiqIJ7pB,comment-id=00010006,timestamp=2016-09-26T07:21:32.239+0000)

On hit is to kill ridiculous shit tanks like a fed/full build Volibear Maokai Illaoi DrMundo Malphite Nautilus Sejuani Shen TahmKench Rammus if you don't have a tanky support to save ur squishy ass when caught.
RIP Sated devourer. Sated TwistedFate never forget!

Crit/AD with percentile armor pen thrown in is more effective against hard targets than the ~60ish extra damage per hit you would be getting out of BoRK over attacking someone with a more typical HP value. Besides, there are only two OnHit items focused on %HP damage, and one of them is behind a Smite wall.

I'll say again, OnHit damage is good for focusing on mid-game power when you don't intend to build a %Pen item. Otherwise AD/Crit/IAS is mathematically superior.

Lovelle1 votes

{quoted}

The problem with OnHit itemization is that it has no real identity compared to AD/Pen or AD/Crit.

AD/Pen is if you want to make your skills hit like a train. AD/Crit is for making scary auto-attacks.

But what is OnHit for?

Well...

Nothing, really.

What I've been saying since Season 2 or so is that since OnHit will never be able to compete with crit/crit damage/AD then OnHit should instead focus on providing mixed offense and defense. Crit can have its crazy damage, but if you want to be beefy while still having threatening basic attacks? That's what OnHit should be for.

I see Wit's as more or less the baseline of what OnHit itemization should provide a player. Personally, I think a 'new' component item should be created (Recurve plus Dagger) namely, Malady. Malady would simply provide OnHit magic damage and attack speed. Malady in turn would be combined with various defensive items (Negatron, QSS, Warden's Mail, Giant's Belt, ect) to create a collection of magic damage OnHit items that cater to champions who like auto-attacking while eating enemy focus.

I wouldn't mind an armor and AS item like old Madred's.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't mind an armor and AS item like old Madred's.

Malady + Warden's = Faebane, OnHit magic damage, steals base attack speed OnHit, shares the Cold Steel named passive with other Warden's items.

Malady + Raptor's = Madred's Bloodrazor. Deals 4% of the target's max HP in magic damage OnHit.

Either would be nice.

Mistress Shyvana1 votes

not bad.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

even if you go ad. with no crit. you will still outdamage on hit. on hit is put so far behind. not just because of the old kog maw. but even before then it was weak. the first resembelance to make on hit as strong as crit is devoure. the passive. basically. gives you 50% crit chance to your on hits.

but dear god how dare anyone that isn;t a marskman be a carry

Shadow Hazard1 votes

The thing about the sustain idea is that gunblade already fills the omnivamp need and the only 2 on hit champs that doesn't have any form of hybrid like scaling in their kit that wouldn't make having AP be useless is kindred. Not a bad idea though, since there are champs that have built in true damage that even though they may have both AD and AP in their kits, having either gunblade or rageblade in their builds is not really helpful. Calling out for sustain added into on hit itemization that actually works with on hit damage rather than AD (lifesteal can be pretty crazy when crit camps reach high crit).

Having any on hit item have true damage will make it almost immediately busted i think unfortunately. Because most champs with built in on hits already have anti tank built into their on hits (%health, true damage).

What made devourer so strong was that is gave the champs the power to go full tank after which is how they survived so well while adc's couldn't keep up with their life steal.

You are right that there needs to be an item pass but how it could be done without breaking the game but making on hit champs a fair counterpart to crit AA champs not sure how riot would go about that.

Tyto Mors1 votes

twitch with red buff and red smite is scary, but trying to continue on hit for twitch kinda sucks cuz you'll be at really high AS all the time, so your using invis for the invis a lone, and end up wasting AS Boost. youmuus on twitch has close affect, you cant get more then like 1.85-1.90 AS if you dont want to waste anything. then again i havent checked the stats with the nerfs on him, i could probably build twitch with another AS Item now.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

What I want is an on hit TANK item, like rework item 3091 to have half the on hit damage, raise the mr steal a bit and give it health.

Irelia Bot1 votes

BotRK would be fine having a little bit of a buff. Not a full revert of the nerfs it got that killed it but gettign soem of the % health damage back would be good.

Rageblade might work if it had some base attack speed when completed instead of no attack speed. Issue is that it is still going to have a windup making it not really comparable to Deathcap or Infinity edge which are at full power at all times.

Another item to be considered is Wit's end. It might not seem like much now but it could actually be reduced in price to around 1600 and build into several different items be it one that is like rageblade and one that is like the removed item Madreds bloodrazor and malady which was where Wit's end got the MR shred passive which made hardly any champs have enough synergy Wit's end to bother buying anymore.

Recurve Bow + Dagger + 300 = Wit's End (changed to be streight to the point with both stats both beign 42 like it should be) Unique passive UNDECIDED NAME 1: 42 on hit magic damage 42% attack speed

For a Madreds Bloodrazor Revamp combining Wit's with Raptors Cloak would be used by tankier on hit builders be it Udyr, Irelia, Jax or Shyvana Wit's end + Raptors Cloak + 500 = Madreds Bloodrazor 3400 50 Armor 50% attack speed Unique passive UNDECIDED NAME 1: 50 on hit magic damage 4% of the enemies max health as magic damage on hit 150% helath regen UNIQUE – POINT RUNNER: Builds up to 20% Movement Speed over 2 seconds while near turrets, fallen turrets and Void Gates.

A revamped Rageblade which would be considerd by Jax, Kayle and perhaps Akali Wit's end + Amp Tome + pickaxe + 490 = Rageblade (3500) Unique passive UNDECIDED NAME 1: 42 on hit magic damage 42% attack speed 35 AP 35 AD Unique passive: auto attacks and single target abilities grant +2 on hit magic damage, increase total AD and AP by 4% and grant 2% movement speed stacking up to 5 times for 5 seconds (This passive is halved for Ranged champs)

And For the MR shred item which would be considered by Kayle, Teemo, Kogmaw and potentially WW depending on how he is after his rework. Wit's end + Needlessly Large Rod + 550= Malady (3400) Unique passive UNDECIDED NAME 1: 50 on hit magic damage 50% attack speed 75 AP Unique Passive: Reduces enemy MR by 5 stacking up to 6 times

Kingnewgameplus1 votes

On a side note, having old kog be 5.0 attack speed kog makes my hair grey a little, and I'm not even that old.

Ryuyah1 votes

Lulu item 3153 item 3085 item 3091 item 3022 item 3006 +item 3078 oritem 3046 usually works in my elo

(probably because i go toplane)

The Yetii Rider1 votes

On-hit should be weak against tanks. That's because crit/AD is for killing tanks. If on-hit was good at killing tanks...why would anyone play anything else? It's already good at killing squishies, the only thing you really lose is taking towers.

On-hit is not lacking sustain. Blade of the Ruined King gives you plenty of sustain, it just requires you to actually build AD, which again, is important for taking towers so you want it anyway.

There wouldn't ever be a reason for someone to go full on-hit as a carry. A carry's primary role is sieging. If your carry sucks at taking towers you're going to lose the game by getting stalled out even if you're winning every team fight.

Widder881 votes

On hit is or should be better against tanks than Crit/AD. The reason is that Crit/AD is more about strong single autoattacks and AD scaling abilitys than on hit (every on hit item gives AS). This means Crit/AD gives more burst what is good against squishies, while on hit is all about DPS what is needed against tanks.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

On hit is or should be better against tanks than Crit/AD. The reason is that Crit/AD is more about strong single autoattacks and AD scaling abilitys than on hit (every on hit item gives AS). This means Crit/AD gives more burst what is good against squishies, while on hit is all about DPS what is needed against tanks.

Except that if on-hit is ever good against tanks, tanks just build Thornmail and the on-hit character kills himself...

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Not really how it works.

Atanchan1 votes

On-hit literally counters Thornmail, because Thornmail only reflects the physical damage from an attack. Wit's End and Nashor's Tooth not only don't get reflected, therefore increasing the damage you deal relative to what you take, but also just flat-out deals more damage to a person with Thornmail because, well, Thornmail provides nothing but armor, which on-hit magic damage obviously does not give a single fuck about.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

On-hit literally counters Thornmail, because Thornmail only reflects the physical damage from an attack. Wit's End and Nashor's Tooth not only don't get reflected, therefore increasing the damage you deal relative to what you take, but also just flat-out deals more damage to a person with Thornmail because, well, Thornmail provides nothing but armor, which on-hit magic damage obviously does not give a single fuck about.

What version of Thornmail are you reading? Thornmail reflects 25% of your armor plus 15% of the physical damage you receive. The base is pretty good against someone who needs to attack you ten to twenty times in order to kill you.

And without BoRK the on hit character has no sustain to keep them alive against Thornmail. If you do have BoRK, that's more physical damage to increase the return damage while giving more benefit from the 100 armor.

Atanchan1 votes

... The one that gives 100 armor and nothing else besides a passive that reflects 15% of the physical damage taken?

As magic damage ( hint: item 3091 ) no less?

Plus there's the fact that its not uncommon for on-hit users to have innate sustain anyway, meaning they can skip BotRK if they want to focus on magic damage from their items. It's not often amazing, but at the same time the guy with Thornmail has grab more armor to overcome with it ... which means they're doing less to mitigate the on-hit damage.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

... The one that gives 100 armor and nothing else besides a passive that reflects 15% of the physical damage taken?

As magic damage ( hint: item 3091 ) no less?

Plus there's the fact that its not uncommon for on-hit users to have innate sustain anyway, meaning they can skip BotRK if they want to focus on magic damage from their items. It's not often amazing, but at the same time the guy with Thornmail has grab more armor to overcome with it ... which means they're doing less to mitigate the on-hit damage.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Thornmail

It reflects 25% of your bonus armor. It was changed to this specifically to make it a better buy against on hit builds.

Combine it with a Frozen Heart, which lowers all on-hit damage since it reduces AS, and then SV and BV. You're just fine.

Atanchan1 votes

Well, yes, if you include three items that actually do stuff against on-hit items, you do actually have stuff that does stuff against on-hit items. That's kind of how reality works.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Well, yes, if you include three items that actually do stuff against on-hit items, you do actually have stuff that does stuff against on-hit items. That's kind of how reality works.

Then...why would you ever expect on-hit to be good at killing tanks? Tanks have plenty of items to prevent on-hit from being good, that's why anti tank abilities are baked into Kog and Vaynes kits.

Atanchan1 votes

I wouldn't.

I would, however, expect magic damage to counter an item that counters specific types of physical damage and provides only resistance against physical damage and nothing else, even if it's magic damage from the same action as the physical damage that the item counter.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Not every on hit champion deals magic damage with their abilities. Kindred, Xin Zhao, and Darius deal on-hit physical damage, to name a few. Bloodrazor and Blade of the Ruined King's on hit damage is physical.

Atanchan1 votes

That doesn't really change the fact that an on-hit build is going to be focused more around magic on-hit stuff with Bloodrazor and BotRK being more niche options for a typical physical damage build. They just don't really have much synergy with on-hit builds aside from the fact that they scale with AS, so if they're picked up it's usually either to intentionally dip into mixed damage, a drastic need for the % health damage, or because you're playing a jungler and Bloodrazor is actually your only option unless you want to dip into the burn aura and don't want to grab Sunfire.

Admittedly, magic on-hit itself doesn't have much synergy with itself either, but it at least does through Wit's End MR shred, not to mention said shred has synergy with stuff like the Bami's Cinder upgrades which have a bit more flow to the build by providing health to make the bonus MR go further ( not to mention Sunfire covers the hole in your resistances with its armor ). Maybe if one of the physical on-hits could crit there'd be more synergy, but as far as it currently is magic on-hit use Runaan's just as well as physical on-hit.

Y'know, an item for a stat based around amplifying the physical damage from your attacks.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

But this thread isn't about the current on hit builds, the OP is arguing that on hit items should be changed to be stronger against tanks.

Atanchan1 votes

... I mean, if magic on-hit was stronger, then on-hit users would kill Thornmail users far faster than the 25% armor would kill them, and if physical on-hit was stronger, then the on-hit user would just lifesteal through the Thornmail damage.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Not really? You're forgetting that most tanks have cc that literally prevents auto attacks. That's why they are tanks. Malphite has an AS slow and a knock up, Nunu has two AS slows, Maokai takes reduced damage from all sources and has a knock up, Skarner has a suppression and a stun, Nautilus has a hook, knock up and a snare, Sion has a knock up and a stun, Poppy has a knock back and a knock up...

And these tanks are going to have lots of mana and CDR because they build Frozen Heart to counter the on hit. So...

Verdade1 votes

Ezreal can work decently with On-hit build. I used him this way in OFA when i went jungle. Bloodrazor TF Muramana Bork Death's Dance Boots

He has very good sustain, poke, sustained damage. It's weaker than normal ADC defensive-wise but he can deal with bruisers very well

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

The answer to everything would be to just make wit's end do 42 on hit magic damage

Irelia Bot1 votes

And make it cost 2000 gold without the MR shred

I miss you actually worth buying season 2 Wit's end

420 grams1 votes

I think it's because on hit effects are great individually, but don't scale together.

Reikken1 votes

on hits had to be undertuned because 5.0 AS kog existed

Paroe1 votes

so i dont know if this has been said, but on-hit builds shouldnt have to stack up. The core of an on-hit should be phantom strikes; its what makes them viable, but the stacking mechanic we have to 'balance' it is just flat bad.

"Phantasmal wolf totem": 2000g Stinger+pickaxe+gold 30AD 40% attack speed 10% CDR Unique passive: Phantom; every third basic attack will create a phantom that only applies on-hit effects.

"Otherworld fang" 4200g wolf totem+recurve bow+blasting wand+gold 30AD 40AP 50% attack speed 20%CDR Unique passive: 0.1AD and 0.2AP are added as on-hit physical damage. Unique passive: Phantom: Every second basic attack will create a phantom that only applies on-hit effects.

then we rework guinsoos rageblade to build out of tiamat instead of pickaxe, give it back its AoE, remove the stacking, and add a unique passive "steals 5 armor up to 6 times".

ABlueQuaker1 votes

On-Hit builds are just cheesy and should never be viable. I'm cool with something like item 3115 + item 3146. Anything more than that and maybe item 3085 shouldn't be allowed to be viable.

Riot endorsing On-Hit builds is like Riot allowing TriForce Tank Ekko/Fizz/Akali to be viable. It just shouldn't happen.

The Last Ballad1 votes

Meanwhile, I will be enjoying my on-hit Bard and Lulu builds.

Atanchan1 votes

I think the main issue is that late-game on-hit magic damage would be for damaging non-buildings while going through enemy armor ... which armor pen already does plus it damages buildings, and late-game on-hit physical damage would be for damaging non-buildings while not going through enemy armor but with life steal ... which straight AD already does plus it damages buildings, while crit does literally the exact same thing ( higher damage vs. non-buildings ).

On-hits really shouldn't be able to compete with either of those, because then you either go one or the other based on which gives you the most damage ( except if on-hits are strong, then champions that can't use them as well would fall out of usage ). What they are right now seems like a good basis - niche ways of adding more utility or non-standard damage to your autos. Phage and Frozen Mallet make you more capable of kiting and chasing through different methods, Bloodrazor and BotRK provide you with ways of dealing with health stacking, Wit's End lets you amplify the damage your magic damage-dealing teammates deal while providing you a way to make use of the shred, etc. etc.

I suppose there is room for making on-hits even more damaging than the other two but requiring ramp-up over the course of a fight ... but then that raises the question of why you wouldn't just get the other two and win the fight before an on-hit user can ramp-up. There's just not much room for on-hits to be mainstay items for the whole class, because the other options already fill what niches they could occupy.

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