What If Warmog's Offered % Increased to Bonus Health Like Cinderhulk?

Meep Man··23 votes·1,629 views

Something like:

item 3083 +800 Health -> +675 Health NEW UNIQUE Passive: +15% Bonus Health

That way it is easier to get to the threshold if you are actively building to make use of it while also giving Warmog's more of a reason to be bought. I feel, despite all the nerfs to the Health on other items, Warmog's is still a dull purchase to make.

Also, of course Cinderhulk and Warmog's wouldn't stack.

60 Comments

Greymoore5 votes

item 3083 is the secret weapon for ARAM

Raven Redeemed1 votes

Shh, we must let the SR people it's for their map.

Muzét3 votes

Honestly I thought that with the tank update we would see more %Bonus health items and Tenacity passive. But they get rid of health everywhere ;w;

Starcraft243ver2 votes

So you basically up warmog. What do you take away ?

Basshead13 votes

He took away base health

Starcraft243ver5 votes

Yes but this base health will be recovered by the passive alone.

Meep Man5 votes

If something has to be taken away, just further reduce the health. Maybe bump the cost since it becomes the Tank item equivalent of Infinity Edge or Rabadon's. This is a thread about if such a change would be good, not what EXACTLY must be done if it happened.

Dreadlocks5 votes

I actually made a similar post to this last year.. Saying a tank item like cinderhulk (%hp increase) shouldn't be tied into a jungle item and it should be put into warmogs..

I'm still bothered that ADCs have item 3031 Mages have item 3089 which are really good at a high end buy that amplifies the rest of their items very well and Assassins get this item 3147 which is merely another Lethality item, hardly comparable to item 3089 item 3031 Tanks kind of have item 3193 imo its pretty comparable.. and supports?

Every class should have that kind of an item and it should be comparable and as good as i.e/deathcap.. as desirable to purchase and rewarding when you have. item 3083 is better yes.. But i still think it's better early game for the skirmishes but the passive doesn't really kick in until mid-late game (if you even chose to purchase it, prob late)

Meep Man2 votes

I agree that every class should have a hyper scaling item. However, I think, especially with recent changes on the PBE, that Redemption is an item that fits the Support role for hyper scaling since it boosts itself a ton with Heal Power increases.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Which is good, but why do assassins get shit on? I mean they have 3 fucking items LOL lets count adc and tanks items =)

Meep Man2 votes

I mean, I guess if you want to be technical, the items that get mega buffs from building other items and stats are, for each class:

ADC- item 3031 Mage- item 3089 Support- item 3107 (maybe item 3174 ) Tank- item 1401 Assassin- item 3147 Fighters- item 3071 (but not really, mainly since Fighters can basically make use of almost the entire item pool)

Steelflame1 votes

Actually, the support Infinity Edge is going to be Athenes. Mana regen is insanely common on support items, and you can get enough of it that Athenes becomes a 100AP purchase.

AP is worth about 20.8 gold per point of AP. Athenes at full build for an enchanter support (item 2301item 3504 item 3174 item 3107+boots and one final item, no mana regen on said item due to being CDR capped+Athenes doesn't stack with Mikaels's Harmony passive.) value will be giving 1 point of AP per 21 gold, not even counting the fact it gives MR (720 gold value), CDR (275 gold), mana regen (500), or the heal procs (Can't be priced).

These stats bring it to a gold value of 3595, not counting said heal proc. This puts it at an astonishing 171% gold efficiency, by far the most efficient item in the game. If you were to build a rabadon after that (somehow) you would be brought to 459 AP assuming 15 AP from runes and just those items (No dragons, Baron, or elixer AP boost).

Troll for Trump1 votes

Assassins can't have it or they'll be even more feast/famine

Dreadlocks1 votes

Except the assassin rework has made them even more feast/famine than before.

Troll for Trump1 votes

I disagree with that, the assassins are less feast/famine; it's just that many of them stopped being feast/famine because Riot fked them up hard (Rengar, LB)

Dreadlocks1 votes

Is that why Assassins tend to build tanky/or/defensive when they don't get super ahead? That would be like saying "oh ADC isn't fed so he's going to build a randuins now" No. They still keep building their Crit and if they're smart (most arnt) They'll build at least a vamp scepter and maybe tabis.

Point is.. Champions like Shaco Use to build something like..item 3074 item 3087 item 3031 item 3142 item 3026

Look at it now.. item 3078 item 3053 item 3748 item 3026 item 3153 item 3009

Rengar old build: item 3074 item 3142 item 3031 item 3158 item 3087 item 3046

Now? item 1412 item 3071 item 3047 item 3026 item 3812 item 3742 Hell a couple of patches ago the best build was item 1408 item 3071 item 3065 item 3047 item 3742 item 3190

Kha'Zix is building item 1408 item 3071 item 3111 item 3156 item 3026 item 3033

I mean at least Zed/Talon are still building Lethality.. They did a good job cutting crit out of rengar's build which imo as a rengar main is pretty aweome.. But they shoved him into a diver instead of keepin him an assassin so i'm pretty po'd about that..

Lethality items are just feast or famine in general. They're too little options which means that if its strong, then they're worth buying all the time and people complain because they dont want to buy tabi's/ga or its too weak and we have assassins building random ass shit. Again at least Zed and Talon hold their build, but then again they really didnt change much..

Troll for Trump1 votes

Zed didn't change much, Talon did. Not in his build path, but his playstyle.

Cutting Rengar crit cut out a fun playstyle; fun for the player but not the enemy.

I said that Riot had fked up many of the champs earlier, and I still hold that stance. Many assassins don't burst quickly anymore because they aren't assassins. Rengar is one of them.

Lethality is less feast/famine than Crit for sure.

They still build the same items, assassins just play less feast/famine than before.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Talons playstyle is very much the same. Still same combo and still roams..

Troll for Trump1 votes

Talon can't kill his lane opponent reliably outside anymore outside of the lvl 2 cheese, which was also a new part of the rework.

His laning phase is much stronger than before, and it's easier to manage hp/mana.

His combos are not the same at all, mainly due to the lack of E.

He's been pigeonholed into roaming 24/7.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Dude what are I even talking about seriously. I have zero idea what ur talking abt lol. Talons level 2 is stronger than before because he no longer has to sacrifice damage for a gap closer. And talon didnt win many match ups mid anyways he typically relied on roams before the rework. Now if ur talking back to when he haf a silence he had a few better match ups

Troll for Trump1 votes

Dude what are I even talking about seriously. I have zero idea what ur talking abt lol. Talons level 2 is stronger than before because he no longer has to sacrifice damage for a gap closer.

Yes he does, he sacrifices his entire E. His level 2 is the only thing strong about him early, but he can't kill the opponent reliably anymore.

Old Talon you would get ahead and keep killing your opponent. Talon can't really do that, and just roams instead.

And talon didnt win many match ups mid anyways he typically relied on roams before the rework

No, even before the rework, he could kill many things. Most of the mid laners in this meta, he can kill without a hitch.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Uh lets actually look at the 2 kits shall we..

Old Q, AA reset dmg nuke New Point click crit/or/gap closer damage

W lil longer less width but overall very similar ( range dmg)

Old E, Gap closer brief slow 99% New E, hops walls

So explain to me how old level 2 was stronger? So if he goes in with E on his target he only has W for damage, Whereas now he can go in with his Q and does damage and does damage with his W. How do you not understand this? This is basic logic.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Assassins can't have it or they'll be even more feast/famine

Assassins got death's dance, black cleaver, youmuu's ghostblade, and duskblade of draktharr. All of which are abused by everybody other than assassins lmao.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Instead of nerfing the abusers, lets nerf the items instead!

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Instead of nerfing the abusers, lets nerf the items instead!

And then nerf the class it was intended for because the items were OP!

Baron of Bread1 votes

If you let it kick in early game then every tank would have a Garen passive in lane. Not ok.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Everyone?

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Tanks get randuin's omen, it's core on any tank for late game.

TwinkiePro2 votes

Warmogs should be a stronger version, much like ludens is the stronger version of the AP jungle item. Thats just my thoughts.

Proxy3451 votes

Warmogs has its uses still in alot of situations. If it gave percentage health then it would be abused by Chogath and nerfed to oblivion lol Its also very very easy to reach the threshold on most tanky champs after getting Titanic Hydra.

Profirix1 votes

Thats what they said about Gargoyle Stoneplate...it turned out to be a gimmick. Cinderhulk Cho is a thing. Hell, hes even performing so poorly they are considering buffs.

Shuyin1781 votes

It's a gimmick until you get one in your matches that 100-0s you with just 1 press of R.

Profirix2 votes

Clearly it isnt enough to give him an average win rate. He is underperforming, win rates aside, because of his immobility and the prevalence of mobility in League.

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tongue in Cheek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UfrFTK11,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-06-09T16:52:37.340+0000)

Thats what they said about Gargoyle Stoneplate...it turned out to be a gimmick. Cinderhulk Cho is a thing. Hell, hes even performing so poorly they are considering buffs.

Stoneplate is a gimmick? i see it on pretty much every tank that isnt a damage one.

Profirix1 votes

I was referring to Cho abusing it.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Warmogs has its uses still in alot of situations. If it gave percentage health then it would be abused by Chogath and nerfed to oblivion lol Its also very very easy to reach the threshold on most tanky champs after getting Titanic Hydra.

Going down that vain, I should point out that the HP on Juggernaut items hasn't been nerfed in the tank update. Such a change may do more to bolster Juggernaut than true tanks.

Warmorgs is good at what it does, (regen) it's just that what it does isn't particularly favored by the meta. (Do I need Out of combat regen, if I can just Recall?) Forcing it into the meta will make it appear oppressive. Especially when you adding an entirely new effect to it. (People will see the %HP as having free regen, or the regen item having free HP) In fact, since the regen scales with HP probably would give the item too much self synergy.

Though I'm not entirely opposed to another, more general %HP item, it should be a separate item.

RookPusher1 votes

What threshold is this?

Denims Wrath6661 votes

you know warmogs was given that passive just so it wouldnt be as broken on aram right? if you buff it at all everyone and their mother would buy it.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Don't think so. There's enough %HP damage in items and kits that just stacking health without resistances isn't as great as it sounds. In my experience, in ARAM the health recovery passive is actually the strongest part of the item.

Denims Wrath6661 votes

well duh, thats why its meta in aram. you dont wanna buff it though because then people will have that passive going before level 14 and that would be annoying as fk.

53011 votes

Wouldn't a buffed warmogs just make aram aids? Pretty sure it wouldn't be bought over items that give an additional stat (see armor, mr) unless you're late game against full ad... or just playing against an aids poke comp in aram as a tank or something

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Man, I think that would be pretty OP, tbh. I get the idea, but there are so many other things that stack with bonus health that could make that so dangerous.

Baron of Bread1 votes

I think you would want to make the base or percent a little lower, only needing a Giant's Belt of investment to make this better than the old Warmogs is a bit too easy in my opinion.

Also, making it not stack with Cinderhulk is a no-no in my opinion because it makes it so junglers are punished if they build both, which they may want to do for the other unique passives.

Spoofghoul1 votes

nonononoononono

leave warmogs as it is then add other hp items like item 3084 it could have that passive and also give 800 hp for example

we need more pure hp items so we get choices as a tank. do i buy armor do i buy mr do i buy hp

make them all 800 hp items kinda like how we got the 3 armor items and 3 mr items which are all somehwat similar and then give em each a niche to work with

needless to say qarmogs would be the sustain niche we could have more as long as they do not focus on resistances or necessarily make you even bulkier but more utilitarian like the warmogs sustain all with hp threshold passives

we already got enough % dmg in the game to where it would not be smart to build only hp

SlashStriker1 votes

Warmog's regeneration is probably the best regeneration in the game

XIII Vanitas1 votes

It's a bad idea. Warmog has already its niche and items with % health increase make you feel bad whenever you buy item 3110 item 3025 item 3075

A Basic Island1 votes

DrMundo: MUNDO!!!!!

Bârd1 votes

Warmogs doesn't really need a buff.

It's already a pretty strong lategame pickup for tanks and supports with no sustain of their own.

Irelia Bot1 votes

What if Warmogs had scaling health like it use to

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

You would only need 160 bonus Health for this to be a buff. You already get that from Runes & Masteries.

Just saying you'd need to adjust the numbers or make it "+15% bonus Health provided by other sources". But yeah, good idea.

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