Rylai should have less AP, but significantly more HP and a stronger slow

YumaS2Astral·Apr 26, 2018·69 votes·15,358 views

I think the direction that Riot is pushing this item currently is wrong. Adding more AP to it means that it will just encourage more burst heavy AP champions from purchasing it. Meaning that we will be back to when Rylai had 100 AP and it was purchased by every mage (save a few specific mages which already had CC everywhere on their kit).

This item should be like Frozen Mallet. You purchase it when you want to have a little bit of soft CC and tankyness, but you sacrifice damage potential by doing this instead of purchasing things like Titanic Hydra.

To do this, something they could do is to reduce the AP to 45 or 50, increase the HP to 500 or 600 (maybe 700) and then revert the slow to what it used to be back when it had 100 AP and 400 HP. Then change its recipe to a + a . Maybe slighty increase the cost.

This way, this would be a better item for champions like and peharps - They would love the stronger slow and extra HP, and wouldn't mind the loss of AP too much, especially since their kits have a lot of natural damage already. (especially Vlad which can convert the extra HP into AP) The extra tankiness would help them last more and deal more damage to begin with.

On other hand, champions like would need to think twice before purchasing this item, since doing so would mean they would do less damage, and those champions generally want to do as much damage as possible in a short time. Whereas they abused old Rylai because it was one of the few big AP items back then. The slow was just the icing on the cake. Some of them could buy this to have an easier time landing their CC, but that would be a loss in damage potential (something that wasn't true with old Rylai due to it having 100 AP)

104 Comments

2nd ChanceApr 27, 201817 votes

Yeesh

It's like everyone who upvoted this thread forgot how disgusting Rylai's slow used to be

RainXBladeApr 27, 20181 votes

I remember when people like Malzahar and Azir were terrifyingly strong when this item was at its peak.

TheorexApr 27, 20189 votes

That was also in a different time period.

Both Malzahar and Azir had good runes to run back then. They could bring DFT and Thunder lords.

Both of which they have lost.

Electrocute doesn't work because 1, Azir wants all of the minor runes in the sorcery tree, and then he also wants the attack speed given in the precision tree.

Aery/ Comet don't work well with Malzahar. Malzahar can get up to two procs of aery, but the damage of aery drops off a lot in the mid to late game. Comet is unreliable until you get rylai which is a third item. Malzahar players prefer the utility given to them by other runes (Aka Unsealed Spellbook).

Also Rylai's was also extremely strong back then. But saying that those two were terrifying is as an understatement to them as their kits have also been gutted.

Malzahar, now has one to three Voidlings that die in one spell/auto vs the voidlings that multiplied like gnats and required 3 autos/ 2 spells to kill. His spell shield also went from 1 second of 90% damage reduction to .25 second of 90% damage reduction. Malzahar's damages were all lowered. The only damage that got increased was his R beam and not by much.

Azir, was, is, and will continue to be shit in solo queue. Just as Ryze, Azir has the problem of require much skill to be good at. He requires a bunch of team attention and help to get off the ground. He also is very team oriented. Meaning that if his team can't provide him the necessities for doing what he wants/needs to do. He also suffers. And how often can you trust you team to do anything in Solo Queue?

I could understand if you are complaining about Azir in Pro play. But complaining about Azir in solo queue will just fall on deft ears. Good Azir players will not be anything lower than D3. Thats just the reality of that champion. Much like Ryze.

Sincerely, A season one mage main.

RainXBladeApr 28, 20181 votes

I don't necessarily complain about Azir, considering I'm in low elo and only play him for fun. What I'm just saying is that for me, those 2 mages are primarily the reason why Rylai's had to be kept in check or else those two would continue to dominate mid lane.

TheorexApr 28, 20181 votes

But again, those two have been changed. Also those two were strong with the item because their kits were designed with the intent of that item being a core component. Riot just over looked it and buffed the item itself.

Then it became a staple in everyone elses kits. You can't blame a champion for something that they have always been building.

It would be like blaming Ryze for Tears recent nerfs. Ryze has been building tear since his development. It was the champions that tagged along that required tear to get nerfed.

RainXBladeApr 28, 20181 votes

You are right about that. I hated having to deal with a burst mage like Annie or Syndra that built Rylai's and had the slow and extra HP on top of their burst.

Velzard of KozApr 27, 20182 votes

LOL. I was also thinking "Wasn't Rylai already tachnically this and it was huge problem and hence the rework?"

My Waifu VanillaApr 28, 20181 votes

Rylai's was a problem because of the stats and it having a 40% slow in almost all cases as opposed to the 20% it is now. Rylais used to be 40% for everything besides dots with the only thing changing from aoe and single target being the duration of the slow. This let champions like Azir perma slow you for 40% with his soldier autos or champions like Cassio doing the same thing with her E. The only champions that were LARGELY unaffected by the change were malz, brand, and zyra since they all do "dot" damage (pets are coded in the dot category), but even still they got hit a bit because Brand/Malz could still APPLY the 40% slow with their abilities it just decayed down to the 20% with visions/blaze.

Velzard of KozApr 28, 20181 votes

Did you even read OP's post? He also suggests reverting the slow function.

My Waifu VanillaApr 28, 20181 votes

I think it largely depends on what is changed. If only single target abilities keep the 40% slow it could largely be "whatever" since those generally weren't the problem. AoE and reapplied abilities have always been abuse cases for Rylais which Riot can go on a case by case basis and fix (like Cassio E being coded differently since the ONLY lines being drawn currently between AoE and single target is Gunblade and comet for AP champs). This is under the assumption that the item loses a lot of AP and becomes a more tank based item that just gives them a bit more sticking power at which point those changes MIGHT not even be necessary since champions like Cassio or Swain probably wouldn't want to spend 2700g or whatever for 50 AP and an absurd amount of health (I could be wrong though).

Big LincolnApr 27, 20189 votes

Rylai should be removed because a passive permaslow is literally one of the worst fucking things you could put on buyable items

AzadetheApr 27, 20182 votes

Says a Garen who can literally escape any on kit slows/cc, and also mow down in the process. Zoned perma cc is the only way to even exist with Garen.

NemeBroApr 27, 201819 votes

{quoted}

Says a Garen who can literally escape any on kit slows/cc, and also mow down in the process. Zoned perma cc is the only way to even exist with Garen.

If you can't deal with Garen at all without the ability to permanently slow him, the problem is you.

AzadetheApr 27, 20184 votes

lulz. Either says 1) you've never played these champs:

Zyra Ziggs Velkoz Veigar Vladimir Ryze Sona Soraka Nidalee Morgana Lux Lucian Ivern Cassiopeia Evelynn Elise

ALL of which have no escape vs a Garen, most of which Garen outheals their damage as it happens, get silenced into oblivion, and facetanked by some 600 + move speed, because of item 3800 item 3742 , his Q, and possibly item 3142

Without Rylai's they literally have no actual counterplay, because their slows last less than .3 seconds versus Garen's W.

Oh. And most of these champs have skill delays on their skills of .3-.5 seconds, which literally gives Garen time to face tank them before the skills hit, landing his Silence.

NemeBroApr 27, 201814 votes

{quoted}

lulz. Either says 1) you've never played these champs:

ALL of which have no escape vs a Garen, most of which Garen outheals their damage as it happens, get silenced into oblivion, and facetanked by some 600 + move speed, because of , his Q, and possibly

Without Rylai's they literally have no actual counterplay, because their slows last less than .3 seconds versus Garen's W.

Oh. And most of these champs have skill delays on their skills of .3-.5 seconds, which literally gives Garen time to face tank them before the skills hit, landing his Silence.

Almost none of these champions should be facing a fighter far away from an allied turret without any allies around. They aren't meant to be able to escape most fighters assuming optimal play.

Though I can not imagine what it's like to be someone who can't escape a Garen as Nidalee LMAO! Just jump over a fucking wall!

And if you're playing Vlad, Ryze, Cassiopiea, and maybe Lucian, why run? You can probably beat him 1v1 with your super counterplayable point and click ranged abilities, with my main man Ryze having a point and click root. And a speed up. And another speed up with phase rush. And a shield. And a long-range teleport that has the same duration as his enhanced root, so if he roots and ults he will be out before Garen can reach him. Or he could hang out and just beat his ass.

You're a funny guy.

AzadetheApr 27, 20181 votes

You destroyed your credibility in so many ways.

I'm not speaking to 1v1's. Garen can dive and face tank any of those champs with little to no effort, even among team play. Also, many of these champs often have to defend a turret vs a Garen. Garen can dive them and destroy them.
Nidalee's skills are a spell!. Also, if Nidalee Q and Pounces in on a Garen but does not kill him, her Pounce is on a pretty long cooldown, even if he fails to Silence her. But yeah. Garen can literally silence her on engage.
Cass and Vlad's ONLY reason they can fight a champ like garen is . It's core to their builds, and Vlad literally has no CC other than Rylai's.

Cass has one slow, which Garen can literally run right through and Silence the Cass. Again, the only reason she performs is Rylai's.

Same with Ryze. He only has a .5 second - 1 second root in his kit, which Garen can run right through. You do realize TENACITY ELIMINATES ROOTS. ( Garen with just his W and item 3111 , not including RUNES, has 75% CC reduction). He cannot keep Garen rooted long enough to successfully ult. Garen will reach you, silence you, ruin your ult, and Ult you back.

You've obviously never played much. You have 10 ranked games this season. SIlver II. play some higher elo games and see what happens.

NemeBroApr 27, 20188 votes

{quoted}

You destroyed your credibility in so many ways.

This coming from the guy who said that Garen can outheal those champions' damages despite the fact that Garen has no sustain in his kit that can be used during combat, and that he never builds sustain. Your posts are a bad joke my friend.

I'm not speaking to 1v1's. Garen can dive and face tank any of those champs with little to no effort,

Some of the burst mages and supports he easily can, but the DPS mages, Veigar (late game), Lucian, and Vel'koz? No, he can't easily withstand their damage while diving them, even if he can beat them 1v1.

even among team play.

You're delusional if you think Garen is going to run up on these champions and murder them without counterplay with their team around them. Garen is garbage in team fights.

Also, many of these champs often have to defend a turret vs a Garen. Garen can dive them and destroy them.

The only champion in that list who will defend a turret solo against Garen with any regularity is Vlad, being the only champion in that list who has a fairly solid pick rate top. Your mid laner isn't typically defending solo against Garen.

And if they are? They can just push the wave out easily so he can't approach the turret.

Nidalee's skills are a spell!. Also, if Nidalee Q and Pounces in on a Garen but does not kill him, her Pounce is on a pretty long cooldown, even if he fails to Silence her. But yeah. Garen can literally silence her on engage.

Holy shit, who said anything about using her Q to jump on the Garen LOL?

I think I may have discovered why you have this laughably inflated view of Garen's threat level.

Just W away from him, preferably over a wall.

Cass and Vlad's ONLY reason they can fight a champ like garen is . It's core to their builds, and Vlad literally has no CC other than Rylai's.

Cass has one slow, which Garen can literally run right through and Silence the Cass. Again, the only reason she performs is Rylai's.

Vlad is too tanky to be bursted down by Garen, has a speed up (two if he goes phase rush), a W to outlast his spin while healing, and much better combat sustain. He probably doesn't need Rylai's to beat Garen.

Cass does much higher damage than Garen, has a higher speed boost, a stun (you seem to have forgotten she has that, do you actually play this game?), and once more can actually sustain in combat. She also has a shield to tank a lot of his damage with Seraph's. She kites him and kills him if she's good. Your inflated opinion of Garen vs. Cass is likely due to Cass requiring more skill than you can muster to play, and Garen being pretty brainless so your opponent can get the most out of him.

Same with Ryze. He only has a .5 second - 1 second root in his kit, which Garen can run right through. You do realize TENACITY ELIMINATES ROOTS. ( Garen with just his W and , not including RUNES, has 75% CC reduction). He cannot keep Garen rooted long enough to successfully ult. Garen will reach you, silence you, ruin your ult, and Ult you back.

Ah right, I forgot about tenacity, but Ryze won't need to. His own speed up is higher than Garen's is. =)

You've obviously never played much. You have 10 ranked games this season. SIlver II. play some higher elo games and see what happens.

Higher elo games?

You mean those games where Garen is almost never played LOL?

Look at this dude lecturing me about how I need to play in higher elo while whining about fucking Garen, of all champions. Your little beliefs are just adorable.

LeveretteApr 27, 20181 votes

{quoted} And if you're playing Vlad, Ryze, Cassiopiea, and maybe Lucian, why run? You can probably beat him 1v1 with your super counterplayable point and click ranged abilities

Yeah let them get right on that against a man with a 3s silence who can kill even tanky mages like Vlad and Ryze in that amount of time, assuming he builds like every other Garen nowadays and just goes lethality and damage with one, maybe two actual tank items. Still won't make him take less than 10 seconds to kill without silences. But hey maybe they can get really really ahead and burst him down quickly after the silence right? Well, minus the 1600 true damage ult that you have to pay for due to getting really really ahead. But yeah after that you're fine.

Though honestly, I won't blame Garen for most of this. Every character is supposed to be hard to deal with in some way or they won't have a reason to exist. In Garen's case he needs damage to be viable, since otherwise he'd just be a Silencebot 3000 with built-in execute function. The real problem is that he's so damn hard to kill even if you aren't silenced, just because of his inherent tankiness independent of items. You don't normally see that on a character. Items make the tank. But in Garen's case he's got it naturally, so he gets away with this new fad of just building like an assassin then facerolling everything with no real counterplay aside from just hoping you survive; heaven forbid you actually be able to kill the assassin-built bastard for your troubles.

NemeBroApr 27, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yeah let them get right on that against a man with a 3s silence

I stopped reading tbh. Garen hasn't had a 3s silence since... maybe ever, actually? When he was reworked in season five it capped out at 2.5 seconds.

PB4UAMEApr 27, 20181 votes

Correct, the longest silence the game has ever known was Chogath's pre-nerf silence at 2.6 seconds in AoE at rank 5.

There has never been a silence of 3 seconds in duration or longer.

Garen's is a flat 1.5 seconds, that before the juggernaut patch (5.20) scaled from 1.5 to 2.5 seconds based on rank.

Snowman ArcApr 27, 20181 votes

He's just silver. No wonder why he finds Garen OP.

AzadetheApr 27, 20181 votes

So is NemeBro.

You're plat V who used Janna to rank, and then switched to Sivir and are only performing at 3.5 KDA / 57% win rate on being a 2 champ player.

In other words, you get carried by your teams. Your Sivir scores look more like support scores and are completely out of sync with her ranked performances. Even your off Janna support performances with Taric and Shen look lackluster.... there's actually 1/10 scores OFTEN.

I'm not trying to be mean.... but none of your champs require technical skill, and generally are either hard tanks or coast to win Janna supports. Sivir has freelo waveclear as well.

When you start pulling 60+% on Assassins, Junglers, Bruiser tops, or skill based adcs, I'll listen.

Snowman ArcApr 27, 20181 votes

How is Plat 5 with assassins better than Plat 5 with Janna? At the end of the day, I got there (was Plat 3 a month ago btw).

If you really wanna talk about my KDAs, I'll let you know that I did indeed start as Janna and I carried most of my monkey ADCs. There were like 5 ADCs that added me after the game and asked me to duo with them, which rarely happens. My playstyle as Janna revolves around making plays and being aggressive so that my team can get advantages. I die more often than other Jannas out there, but I also win my lane 90% of the time and snowball off of it hard. I had a 64% winrate at some point before I got a big unlucky streak.

As far as Taric goes, I only play him when Janna is already picked or banned, so I don't have as much experience on him.

With Sivir, managing to have a decent winrate with a decent KDA is honestly insane. The champion is weak right now overall and weak early. The fact that I manage to make her work in an early game meta should tell you much more about if I'm doing well. AFK waveclear for free elo? Hell yeah, that's how I like to play my games anyway. AFK waveclear till 3 items, then hard carry teamfights.

I'd really wish you could spectate my Sivir games. I hadn't touched her for almost one season, so my first 4-5 games weren't as good. Even since I started getting used to her again and understand runes and itemization for early laning, I did get to see results.

By the way, I always try to avoid deaths. With that said, there are some games where my team is losing HARD and I'm trying to do whatever I can, hoping to get something. Usually leads to me dying, but it's a risk I have to take. If I don't take that chance, we would lose for sure. I could instead accept that we are probably gonna lose and AFK in base to not ruin my KDA.

AzadetheApr 27, 20181 votes

How? Assassins actually take learning to use abnormal key orders and coordinate to win, and actually have to be technically knowledgeable.

Your Janna just has to spam shields and passively play.

What's hilarious is you think you carried your adcs, not the other way around, with a 3.5 KDA (At D II I have a 7.3 KDA on Nami , 6.3 KDA Ornn , 5.3 KDA Thresh , 6.8 KDA Sona , 6.6 KDA Karma , 6.2 KDA Evelynn , 5.5 KDA Zyra , 8.8 KDA Zilean , etc)

I know Sivir got hit by the item 3087 nerf, but She is not weak lol. As long as she has AD she is one of the best csers of all adcs, has the strongest 1 skill aoe damage on a skill, and has the unique position to not have to worry about mana management or cc as much.

What I was getting at is..... learning technically difficult champs carries. Playing Technically easy champions puts a cap on your progression, because your REAL aggregate skill level is probably at best Gold. Most players at high tiers have a high number of champs they are competent at playing, and can perform well on them all. They generally stick to one role, but they know ALL champs of that role.

Snowman ArcApr 28, 20181 votes

You really don't get it, do you? You only think that carrying is having good KDA and that elo is only deserved if you play high mechanical champions.

The thing is, you're wrong. I don't win 90% of my lanes because I AFK and press E. I win because I have strong laning mechanics, I know how the map works and I'm able to take advantage of it. That's why I'm in Plat 5. If I didn't have that, I'd be Gold. Where you think you are good in micro skills, and I am good at macro. I know what I need to do to gain advantages and win the game. You probably don't. I know what I need to do to gain an advantage in lane and snowball that. You probably don't. Guess what. Being able to identify correct ways to win is more important and more successful than what you do. Sure, you might be better mechanically than me, even though I doubt it, since I also play more complex champions with decent performances, but I realized that those champions won't get me higher.

Again, you can believe whatever you want. At this point, I can assume that you believe that every challenger and pro ADC player is boosted and not worthy of being there, because they only abuse Tristana and Caitlyn, right? I mean, there's no skill in Tristana right clicking people to death, so Rekkles must be a trash player who only got challenger because he played broken meta champs, right? Faker became the best because he abused meta Zed, right?

Thing is, these players are doing everything perfectly, in both micro and macro. If they lacked in either of these two, they would never go pro, or they would play in some trash challenger NA team. Macro skill and game knowledge is just as important, if not more, than micro mechanics. You consider me a bad player for not being able to play complex champions, even when you don't know that, while I consider you stupid for failing to understand how the game works, because if you did, you wouldn't have such a bad winrate.

Honestly, since you are having a worse win rate than me, it can only mean 2 things: you are weaker in the places where I'm stronger (macro, knowledge etc), and the places you are probably stronger than me (micro mechanics) are not as good either to get you a positive win rate.

AzadetheApr 28, 20181 votes

You just don't read.

At Plat V you should both have macro and micro play.

If you can't go higher with more technical champions, that screams a lack of progression in ability to play.

I actually think adc is the hardest role in the game next to jungler right now (because jungler has a a serious deficit of wards right now, and with the removal of trackers, and the 10 minute mark on Support wards).

Adc generally is the one role which has trouble last hitting every minion and making the lane presence count. It also has to play at a prone distance which makes it vulnerable to poke, and most don't have escape mechanisms that are that strong. It's also the one role in the game where a bad performance literally cripples you for the rest of the game, because not only are you behind in CS, you're also behind in levels.

Not only that, Junglers have the most problems accessing bot lane for ganks, because bot's map design really limits the entrance paths, and good laners respond easily.

Learning to Orb correctly, and responsibly auto attack a champion is one of the hardest things to learn in league, and adc is the only role that relies almost exclusively on that ability, and holds the most risk in it.

Tristana is much harder to use correctly than most adcs. Her technical level imo is higher than Caitlyn Draven Ezreal Kalista Jinx Kaisa MissFortune Quinn Twitch (pretty much all adcs), because she needs to maintain her Rocket jump and keep it off cooldown or she's toast. She might be a reset mechanic queen, but that doesn't mean doing it right comes easy. (I Specialize in tearing Tristana apart)

Caitlyn is very hard to carry with. I don't know why you think she's doing okay. Although her mechanics are fairly simple, she's in the wrong meta. She might be able to defensively control her lane, but out of lane she's a complete ..... target. Too many champs can kill her before she 4th bullet's, and avoid her Net. They can also abuse the small delay on trap activation. If someone's doing well with her, they're far more mechanically and macro skilled than a Janna.

Zed is extremely hard to learn mechanically. Although he can go 13/8 in the hands of someone whose completely unskilled vs people of same level, a true Zed player goes 15/1, and gives up far less takedown gold, and has more of a push presence because they have less time dead. Getting 3 shadows on one target Q takes talent, because of the configuration of what skill order you have to play, and unlike most champs, you really need to be aware of Stasis. A good Zed can kill someone from 1700 range. A bad Zed can only kill people from about 800. That exponentially increases the rate of presence and what you can do. Good Zeds also get in 2-3 more auto attacks per skirmish.

I consider you a bad player because your scores on Janna are lackluster, and show a deficiency in complex champs in general. That tells me a story. It means your macro game is something you struggle at (not saying you don't have it), and to use it, you have to huddle yourself in a niche of a relatively afk champ to be able to look at maps and predict movements. If you had a 60% kill participation rate on Sion or Riven , that'd probably indicate to me that you have solid macro play while also playing relatively complex champs. (these 2 aren't hard to learn combat on, but they are hard to master)

If you had 60% Participation on those champs, it'd tell me a few things:

You can manage to be in team fights while also being an effective farmer. (You're worthless as a kill participation if you don't farm)
You roam at the correct times, predicting when a team fight is going to happen, rather then reacting to it after it's begun. (You lose kill participation if you show up late)
You are thrifty at skill use (no other player barriers/move speed buffs to automatically give you assists, even if you're not doing much, so 60% kill participation means much more on those champs than on a Janna).

Even Nami and Sona have a harder time getting 60% kill participation than Janna, because their abilities have to be cast to get assists. Janna is the only champ in the game that gains assists just for existing.

Snowman ArcApr 28, 20181 votes

Let me clarify my Janna play. I crush lane most of the time, because I know how to take advantage of her AA - W range and poke the enemy ADC and Support out of lane, thus creating big pressure. Maxing W works wonders. It might be easy to do, but you won't see other Jannas in Plat max W. They all max E and afk. Since I'm responsible for creating a lead bot (my ADC usually afk farms), we take first tower and rotate to top side and follow the basic winning strategy of this meta. And it works really well. Sometimes, in order to force my team to pressure something that is worth (like pushing a minion wave to secure an easy tower, when they won't), means that I will put myself in a dangerous position to apply said plan. Sometimes, it leads to my death, but the setup is good and my team still gets a big advantage out of it. If this ruins my KDA, but increases my team's advantage, then I will do it 100%. Also, there are games where we are losing hard, because some top laner goes 0/5 in 10 minutes. At that point, I know if I play my regular style, we will just lose, so I need to make a risky play to try and get an advantage. Sometimes, it won't work and I will die for it. I could honestly just stay under tower and deny my tower falling down, while I watch other lane towers fall to preserve my KDA. Since I value my win rate more, I'd rather take a risk. That's to clarify how I play Janna and why I don't have 2 death avg. I wish I could send some replays. Also, as a sidenote, I deny most Lee-Q-esque dashes with my tornado and me general timings on Q and R are good, so her only mechanical parts of her kit are applied in really good success rate.

Now, moving on, I do agree that ADC is the hardest role in the game, because you have so limited options as to what you can do with your kit, yet so much is expected out of you, therefore getting good at those mechanics is more than important. You can't be a good ADC for example, if you can't kite properly, but you can be a good mid laner, even if you can't aim your abilities 100% of the time.

Caitlyn is one of the hardest ADCs. Not as much mechanically, like Kalista or Draven or Ezreal, but because she has a very clear way to playing out her kit, that if you mess up and not gain the advantages you can get, you are screwed. If you don't get a lane lead and first tower as Cait, you either fucked up somewhere, or you just got hardcamped by the jungler. If you don't do that, then you are almost useless up until much later. The way that Cait gets this advantage is very simple, but also requires a lot of practice to pull off properly. Playing around your traps and your AA range sure seems simple, but it's not as simple. If you're unable to constantly abuse your extra AA range and zone people off with traps and chip down the towers, then you are doing it wrong.

Tristana is on the easier side. She has a good escape tool, which you should know when and where to use, which is the case with most champions with a dash. Her only real unique mechanic skill is being able to proc the bomb for a jump reset, which isn't really that hard.

Sivir is honestly one the hardest side of the ADCs, if you ask me. Lowest range + no repositioning spells means that you have to be very careful. Knowing when to use your spell shield + perfecting the W AA reset + being able to use the MS boosts to kite properly takes a lot of practice, and since she generally doesn't build a lot of attack speed, you need to orbwalk much better. Kiting as Sivir is harder since you are forced to do it more often (low AA range) as opposed to a Jinx who can just sit there and fire off autos. Sivir is much harder to maximize your DPS than most carries. The only other champions that are hard to maximize damage output are Ezreal and Draven , for different reasons, which is why you don't see good Dravens or Ezreals up until much higher elo.

My KDAs as Sivir might not be as good, because 1) I played some games with her to practice after a long time, so I didn't perform as well and 2) same with Janna, sometimes I must do the risky play, so I die more often. I could preserve my KDAs.

Also, generally, I find it harder to keep good KDAs on ADCs and supports. Seeing how you rely so much on your other ally laner, they can break your laning phase and make you look like a monkey. You can see how I had much better KDAs in last season for example with Maokai and the season before that with Viktor.

HarrisonOwnsApr 27, 20182 votes

There's no way this isn't a troll because it's so illogical.

AzadetheApr 27, 20181 votes

Would love to know what's illogical.

PB4UAMEApr 27, 20181 votes

Start by reading the first word of your post, you'll be done seeing the illogical part by the time you're finished reading the post. I hope this helps. :)

USG FailsawceApr 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

lulz. Either says 1) you've never played these champs:

ALL of which have no escape vs a Garen, most of which Garen outheals their damage as it happens, get silenced into oblivion, and facetanked by some 600 + move speed, because of , his Q, and possibly

Without Rylai's they literally have no actual counterplay, because their slows last less than .3 seconds versus Garen's W.

Oh. And most of these champs have skill delays on their skills of .3-.5 seconds, which literally gives Garen time to face tank them before the skills hit, landing his Silence.

Why are you face tanking the garen with those champs?...

MasochistApr 27, 20181 votes

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Vel'koz can escape almost anyone, or at least kite almost anyone.

Rylais is a waste on him due to the low cooldown of his Q, which is a slow, as they don't stack

AzadetheApr 28, 20181 votes

You have a legitimate point. All the same though is Garen is one of the champs who can duel Vel and get close.

Raid Boss MordeApr 27, 20181 votes

I sure would love having no CC at all then. If we remove Rylai's, get rid of every other slowing item then and all the slows in champs' kits

Big LincolnApr 27, 20186 votes

sorry that your champ is a shitty 2010 relic, doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer for it

Raid Boss MordeApr 28, 20181 votes

I thought it was pretty clear that I was kidding, but removing the slow isn't going to make anyone suffer any less.

Z3SleeperApr 27, 20188 votes

20% ranged slow (perma in some cases) isn't strong enough?

I think ^ is the entire reason they are targeting the stats rather than the effect. 20% is just enough to slow targets down but not completely invalidate them.

A treespook nestApr 27, 20181 votes

Honestly it isn't when your character relies on that slow for any type of stickiness.

The slow should be increased for melee champs.

Z3SleeperApr 27, 20184 votes

Aaaand that's why designing around a singular item is bad design. Who exactly are you referring to and have you tried running Approach Velocity with its ridiculous +15% ms bonus while using Rylais?

MhihnjApr 27, 20187 votes

Cries in Viktor.

ReySolomonApr 27, 20183 votes

I do like the idea since I play a lot of vlad.

But I don't think they'll listen to you even if this gets 2k upvotes.

GigglesOApr 27, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I think the direction that Riot is pushing this item currently is wrong. Adding more AP to it means that it will just encourage more burst heavy AP champions from purchasing it. Meaning that we will be back to when Rylai had 100 AP and it was purchased by every mage (save a few specific mages which already had CC everywhere on their kit).

"If melee +200 hp and +10% slow"

Boom done.

Wild GeeseApr 27, 20182 votes

Yeah, the slow should be buffed, didn't they nerf it because of Azir? But he's been reworked, nerfed, and is being reworked again...

One thing I'd like to see on crystal sceptre, is that for abilities with a slow already on it, it will still apply a slow (additional amount, not duration), but not the full Rylai's slow; like half.

This could add some interesting utility option on champs who already have slows, rather than the item being redundant.

DivewingApr 27, 20181 votes

Azir was probably the priority 1 concern, but it was a generalised thing.

A lot of mages like Syndra and Ahri were picking it up because it made landing their CC too easy.

The Bearded BardApr 27, 20182 votes

I'd buy it more if it had CDR tbh.

DauntApr 27, 20184 votes

Mmm yeah, lets just increase the CDR clusterfuck fieste even more.

MilieuApr 27, 20182 votes

No. Because AurelionSol exists. Especially in high-ELO KR. AKA he's going to decimate competitive.

YuGiHoApr 27, 20182 votes

as a mage i woul like a better slow but if the stat shift is big enough i wont even be able to say its a mage item. tanks dont need more cc btw.

N3mO06Apr 28, 20182 votes

Maybe if perma slow would have a counterplay, An item to ignore it, But all I see is no gameplay in Malz clicking E on me slowing until my death without the possibility to reach him or escape.