Alistar is one of the least rewarding champions in the game.

FistOfSharkiesha··14 votes·2,466 views

With a winrate fluctuating between 45%-48%, that alone should tell you something. His signature move headbutt, the reason to pick Alistar and the bulk of his power is not even special. Vayne can do the same thing on a shorter cooldown with a longer stun with higher base damage with AD scaling at a range. He has a weak laning phase AND weak teamfighting. With fairly long cooldowns, bad AP ratios, and an ultimate that brings absolutely nothing to a teamfight.

Build him tanky and he does almost nothing. He stands there and watches his teammates die as he waits for his cooldowns. Build him AP and he's squishy but still very very weak. An AD build is viable simply because the other builds are just as weak. To peel correctly in teamfights without headbutting priority targets away requires very good positioning and no matter how good you are, sometimes you just can't pull it up.

Please give him something. Overall his kit probably has the least synergy in the game. His heal is pathetically weak and saps his mana in a few casts. His ult is his biggest issue. The best way to counter Alistar is to just ignore him. Why give a tank/support an AD steroid that he can't even make good use of?

The only reason to use him right now is to babysit vayne until she's a monster but then you've got a hypercarry and a useless support come lategame. If he is given a buff to his heal or ult, his other 2 abilities are perfectly fine, he just needs SOMETHING. ANYTHING.

tl;dr suggestions: *Make him a half decent jungler again. Buff his passive to deal extra damage to neutral monsters. Buff his heal to be more potent when he's alone. *Reduce mana costs or increase AP scaling. *Rework his ultimate entirely.

40 Comments

DeloricVI8 votes

{quoted}

With a winrate fluctuating between 45%-48%, that alone should tell you something.

Yes, that tells me that people in bronze don't know how to use Alistar, because that's all that winrates actually tell you.

Alistar just got a visual rework.... don't you think they would have tweaked his mechanics if he needed it? Do you even know what a good Alistar looks like? Any good Alistar will just constantly find a way to fling you into the enemy carry. You wanna try and get away after that? Too bad, because he just knocked you into the air with pulverize. And his ult... I mean... are you kidding? 70% damage reduction!? What is this madness!? The only thing I can think of in his kit that could be a little better is his heal, but when you buy an ardent censer, he just buffs everyone's attack speed in teamfights, and keeps himself alive, and possibly heal everyone else a little bit. He doesn't get much credit because most people don't know how to play him and his rewards are about even with thresh or blitz just on a higher learning curve.

Oh, yeah, and in teamfights he interrupts everyone. A lot.

FistOfSharkiesha3 votes

Which is why I said his kit was clunky, not necessarily having any underpowered abilities. If you want a champion that can chain CC just as good or better than Alistar look at the highest winrate supports, Blitz and Leona. Alone, each of his abilities are outclassed by another champion's abilities. Together, his abilities pretty much require flash to properly execute just like Galio's ult.

I'm less concerned with his winrate and more concerned that he has no lane he excels at. I'd like to see him either buffed as support, or given the resources to jungle or even top lane.

DeloricVI2 votes

Honestly, a while ago, I did have a suggestion for how Alistar could be made better, with minimal kit changes, but everyone just said I was crazy because he was 'fine as is.'

Also, he was a top lane, remember? Back when he could e, q, and auto at the same time? Yep. Riot nerfed that. He used to be able to jungle, but Riot nerfed that out too. I took a step back and realized that... you know what? The boards were right in a way and so was I. I do still think that he's got a higher learning curve than most people are willing to embrace when they can use easier supports like the ones you mentioned. I have seen some pretty scary stuff done with Alistar... even without flash. I've seen him skirt around in the bushes and just ambush people. They can see him; it's warded, they just don't take him seriously until Vayne has blown them up and they're taking a half-minute grayscale breather. I probably won't change your mind that much by just insisting, and I'll admit that I still don't fully think he's good to leave that way, but I could see him staying relevant this way....

It's really difficult for me to say. I'm conflicted, I guess.

flibitydoo6 votes

His signature move isn't headbutt.

It's headbutt+pulverize. Which basically a targeted malphite ultimate starting at level 2.

His ult isn't useless. Infact, it makes him one of the tankiest champions in the game. He can easily tank 5 guys with it up. And quite often, it is used in the classic Alistar Towerdive, which can't really be stopped due to the targetted cc, ult cleanse, and ult making him take zero damage from the tower.

His teamfight is spectacular. He is an excellent initiator, and can easily knock up entire teams (or just setup their adc for death due to the targeted nature of headbutt-pulverize). Build him tanky and he becomes even tankier due to his heal+ult. The enemy team is forced to attack you or otherwise get cc'd and killed, but you're so tanky that by the time you get down to 80% hp (because ult), they're front line has already been shredded by your backline carries. His headbutt is a very easy tool to keep the enemy assassins off of your carry, the closest support to having that type of peel would be Janna ult.

In lane, he's a cc-kill-lane Support similar to Thresh/Leona/blitz. Unlike the others, he can easily cc both enemy laners at the same time, and doesn't need to land skillshots to do so (just be in range). He also has a heal.

His kit has synergy. There is the staple, bread and butter Headbutt+pulverize combo that every Alistar player recognizes. There's also the slightly more mechanical Flash+Q+W enemy backwards combo.

His passive is weak, and mostly just functions to deal extra damage. To be fair though, a lot of champions have weak passives (such as Kog'maw, or Ashe, or Draven, or Zilean, or Talon, etc).

Delioth1 votes

Psh- Headbutt-Pulverize is overrated. Best way to play is to just walk up to them and Q+W them towards your carry. Do that a couple times(Even without them dying) and they'll stand back in the lane. ADC's like getting free farm while denying the enemy farm.

Also Draven's passive is one of the best in the game- a kill at 5 minutes turns into an instant 600 gold

Sooko3 votes

But... He has the best joke in the game. Spamming that wins games!

LoRdJeSuS69694203 votes

Yeah, his kit is pretty random. His passive in particular makes no sense and is next to useless for anything but jungle alistair (which riot has explicitly said they want to discourage...)

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

Where did they say that?... That's ridiculous because it's the one role I can see his ultimate and passive being useful for. Before the extremely brutal jungle of modern times he was a half decent jungler but nothing that couldn't be countered by ward or even just walking away. He requires such good positioning that half of his skill cap is reliant on your enemy being an idiot. All they have to do is double the damage vs neutral monsters just like it's doubled against minions and he will be decent.

Narasimha4 votes

. Before the extremely brutal jungle of modern times he was a half decent jungler but nothing that couldn't be countered by ward or even just walking away.

Yeah, you weren't here for the terror that was jungle Ali. You think your turrets will save you? Hah.

DeloricVI2 votes

Actually, his passive is pretty useful for positioning. Everyone gets distracted by the damage, but, as I have been told, the best part about Alistar's passive is that you get to ignore unit collision with creeps.

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

Alistar needs his Q and W to scale with AD and not AP; he comes from the early days of league where AD ratios were few and far between. This way you can play him as a tank support or a bruiser laner.

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

He might even be a half viable top laner if that were to happen and his jungling would improve. I think the main problem is that none of his abilities are necessarily bad, they just don't have any synergy and other champions do his job but better and with an even lower skillcap. His attack speed is low-average so I guess he could do well with AD scaling but he would be very ult reliant.

Narasimha3 votes

Its more of just a general rule, AD champs with strong utility spells tend to have AP scalings on those spells. Pantheon's stun, Xin's charge, Poppy's stun, and so on and so forth. Its to balance out the damage with the utility.

Kögâ2 votes

Ult resets cooldowns and gives 50% cdr for 5 seconds.

Boom.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Alistar is fine wtf are you talking about

That champion had a 90%+ banrate at worlds, and is still played in the pro scene to this day.

He is crazy good.

Edit: Just using lcs as an example because most people use that as the baseline for how good a champion is. Even if he had a 0% pickrate, the champion is still obviously amazing.

ladention1 votes

tru dat

IcyPepper1 votes

You know, what if his ult gave 20% extra AP or something instead of AD? It'd make him tanky and boost the effectiveness of his spells rather than his autos.

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

I'd prefer an additional effect. If he was full tank or full AD that ultimate would do nothing. Make it so that during the duration of the ultimate his basics are empowered like Karma's mantra.

IcyPepper1 votes

Oh, maybe it could boost his trample passive! Extra tankiness and a boosted passive would encourage him to get in the middle of teamfights!

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

Increasing the radius and damage would be nice. I think the 70% damage reduction is amazing, but it's 100% counterable. All they have to do is ignore Alistar like the pathetically weak champion he is. If his trample could do good sustained damage in teamfights it might make him decent.

IcyPepper1 votes

If anything, he'd function like a tank where ignoring him would be annoying and eventually fatal, forcing them to deal with him while he's in their faces. Maybe force them to scatter or waste cc on him.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

Don't forget that his ult doesn't block true damage, so his ult is meaningless against vayne.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

Make trample trample people, slowing their movement speed while affected by it.

Only Play Darius1 votes

item 3116

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

Wow downvoted already what a shock.

John Do31 votes

I thought everyone picked him for his AoE Heal, at which the bull rocks.

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

Yes which is why I included my point about Vayne. He's a good babysitter but is awful in all ins and teamfights. Even with his babysitting power he burns through mana if you're facing a half decent bot lane.

JedenVojak1 votes

Mmmm.... the ult basically gives you 70% damage reduction, so you should be able to build him for mostly full offense and still be pretty functional.

I don't play Alistar so I don't really know his issues very well.

FistOfSharkiesha2 votes

For 7 seconds. Even if you went full AP your cooldowns and AP ratios are so bad that you wouldn't even trade 1v1. High priority targets are often headbutted to safety if you try to execute them with it. His knock up is very low range and also quite weak. Even if you're AP and ult they can ignore you for 7 seconds and then blow you up.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I just realized, an Alistar with Ardent Censor would be a wave clearing machine (Unless the attack speed buff only works on champs).

Only Play Darius1 votes

Position him right and his Q is a malphite ult on a 10 second cooldown.

He takes much more skill to use than the other tank supports, but his power isn't that much higher than theirs. The problem is that when Alistair is strong, the slightest bit overpowered, he is an absolute nightmare.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

So your argument here is that he does no damage and he has long cooldowns?

Have you ever considered building CDR on him?

Last time I checked, 40% CDR puts Alistar's Q and E on 7.8 (Pulverize) and 6 (Headbutt) second Cooldowns.

That's basically a Malphite Ultimate on an 8 Second Cooldown and one of the best peel abilities in the game on a 6 second cooldown.

stealthstyle751 votes

Since the majority of the league consist of bronze and silver, its not an accurate scale for balance.

As a support, Alistar is a fine tank. His job is to either peel for his adc or get a 3-5 man knock-up with his headbutt -> pulverize combo.

I would agree that his ap scaling is nerfed to oblivion but his mana issue has been fixed one way or another through direct mana decrease buff and items such as mikael (which he can buy and stay tanky with his ult).

He can't jungle anymore although I would love to see him jungle again, riot's reason was that it was too "toxic" even though he gave up sustain AND clear time for his wonderful ganks.

Lastly, if you really want ali to do damage just build a sheen on him or go top. His base ad is crazy and he can one v one many champs once he reach lv 6 and sheen.

NoMonku1 votes

I don't agree with your tl;dr suggestions. The reason he got those nerfs was because he was incredibly OP and had his power reduced so he couldn't be overbearing. He got his AP scaling nerfs because people would just play cow mid/top, build a ton of AP and just headbutt poke, which you can't really trade against. Then once he gets his free poke off with his headbutts, at 6, he tower dives you with his ult and gets a free kill, snowballing. As for his passive nerfs, its because as a jungler he would be a problem. Once he hit 6 he can easily tower dive from behind your turret and sit there and tank for a good 7 seconds until you die. The mana costs are high because of the CC his skills offer.

For the champion himself, he may not be the strongest laner, but he is the best peeling support in the game imo. He has great spikes at level 2 when he can use his headbutt+pulverize combo and again at 6 when he can tower dive. He can also peel incredibly well as well as having the potential to initiate.

I feel your real problem with him is you don't like him being a support, but that is the spot where RIOT wants him. When he was a tanky bruiser top and AP mid, he was very toxic to play against, which was why he was nerfed so that it wasn't as rewarding to play him that way.

dunreadmyname1 votes

Alistar is one of the least rewarding champions in the game.

Taric 1 form of cc, heal saps way more health, ult that gives an ad steroid but no damage reduction. His only form of cc scales .1 second for rank. Caps at 1.6 seconds, compare that to literally any other support or even champ who can play support, like Lulu , Braum , Morgana , Leona , Thresh , Braum , Soraka , Nami, Nautilus , Bard , Alistar , Fiddlesticks , Nunu , Zyra , Zilean , Velkoz ,Sona , Karma , Janna. Given the choice between any of them or Taric no one would pick Taric. Soraka has stronger heals, a slow and a silence. Nami has heals slows and 2 knock ups. Ali has displacements is a stronger tank and a heal. So cmon man don't complain about Alistar when we have people playing junglers and mid laners over actual support focused champs.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Bard

Meep Man1 votes

He's not worthless at all. He provides a lot to his team through his Q and Q+W combo. He offers lots of crowd control.

Did I say he didn't need a buff? No, he probably could. But he isnt at all as bad as you make him out to be.

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