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Morgana is not evil, not even implied to be the slightest bit evil.

FistOfSharkiesha··83 votes·7,557 views

Kayle vs Morgana is a very grey area but I want to make it clear that Morgana is not canonically evil. In fact, judging by quotes and backgrounds alone, Kayle is pushing the boundaries between righteous and tyrannical.

Kayle's quotes are all about judging people: "Your time has come" "Who's next?" "An eye for an eye" "You shall be judged"

Morgana's quotes at first seem evil and threatening, but if you know about the background between her and Morgana it seems to be more of a warning, like "Even if you ally yourself with Kayle she will step on you if you stand in her way". "Share in my torment" "You too will be judged" (I am almost certain she's talking about Kayle doing the judgement, not herself) "Not all angels are good" (Again, I don't think she's referring to herself, but Kayle)

So even if you don't believe Kayle is a tyrant who is in fact so self-righteous and careless that she is on the borderline of being "evil", I also don't think Morgana is evil. At the very most, Morgana is a deserter or traitor, but not for selfish or evil reasons. She is one of the few of her own kind who fought against what she perceived was tyranny.

EDIT: I wasn't really meaning to make claims that Morgana or Kayle were good or evil, I simply meant to say that there is no lore or mod quotes or anything that canonizes Morgana as being evil.

123 Comments

DariusDemiurge40 votes

Morgana is the most level headed, good natured and beautiful hero in the game. I fear riot will go the lazy route with her lore update in the far far future (since riot is slow) and make my love evil just because.

Also I wish we knew more about the races Kayle was committing genocide against. Then again I don't cause they will likely be demon like and portray Morgana in a negative light and Kayle justified.

edit: Proud of most everyone so far, having common sense and understanding Morgana is not evil.

Sickening, the Kayle apologists are out in force as of late of this lovely post. May Morgana have mercy on you all suffering from your delusions.

FistOfSharkiesha21 votes

There's too much grey area (Demacia vs Noxus), (Kayle vs Morgana), (The Freljord clans) so I think they will start pushing the storylines forward if they ever get serious about lore. I really hope they keep Morgana as an innocent victim of her god-complex sister instead of taking the easy way out and making her evil or something.

Rozzeta14 votes

Demacia vs Noxus hasn't been a gray area at all. Whenever the story needed an invading army destroying the natives, it was Noxus. Demacia was supposed to be an elitist military state, but that part of them is barely shown. I remember a post a few years ago about the need to actually change the depiction of Noxus into something were people could actually live in, as it was far too brutal.

Champion Skin2 votes

Yeah Lux Judgment at least shows some of Demacia not so good sides

Beldr2 votes

{quoted}

Morgana is the most level headed, good natured and beautiful hero in the game. I fear riot will go the lazy route with her lore update in the far far future (since riot is slow) and make my love evil just because.

Also I wish we knew more about the races Kayle was committing genocide against. Then again I don't cause they will likely be demon like and portray Morgana in a negative light and Kayle justified.

edit: proud of most everyone so far, having common sense and understanding Morgana is not evil.

Your fears may soon be realized... Just look at what they did to my poor misunderstood Trundle. They've turned him into a generic evil troll tyrant, an ice one at that. We didn't have enough ice champions, you see. Trundle That, and they don't seem to really know what they're doing with the lore themselves.

DariusDemiurge2 votes

{quoted}

Your fears may soon be realized... Just look at what they did to my poor misunderstood Trundle. They've turned him into a generic evil troll tyrant, an ice one at that. We didn't have enough ice champions, you see. Trundle That, and they don't seem to really know what they're doing with the lore themselves.

Man, yeah.... trundle went from the sad noble runt of his tribe trying to do well for his people to the kind dark realization of "oh that is how they truely felt about me? well good fuck them all...."in his judgement and I really enjoyed that. It is one me and a friend always speak of when we talk about ruined things. From that to a fucking ice troll....warlord...come on.....

GreenLore4 votes

Thing is that Trundle wasn't exactly good natured either. His lore did say that if he had the chance to do so,he would have also bullied other trolls of his tribe too. Later on he took the curse,not because he wanted to help his tribe,but because he wanted to be a hero and when he heard that by doing so he actually doomed them to an even worse fate,he didn't want to save them.

I mean old trundle was more complex,that is right,but that doesn't mean he was nicer...

GreenLore14 votes

And now you are doing the opposite: You paint Kayle as evil,while saying that Morgana is nothing but good.

Kayle never commited genocide against any race,at least none that we know of. Not to mention that Morganas lore outright tells us that she isn't innocent either.

I'm not saying morgana is evil,but for the conflict to remain grey,they can't just turn her good either.

HeresyUntoFedex7 votes

{quoted}

Morgana is the most level headed, good natured and beautiful hero in the game. I fear riot will go the lazy route with her lore update in the far far future (since riot is slow) and make my love evil just because.

Braum : Da fuq?

Chromatic Eagle23 votes

Literally doing what I made a thread to argue against. You're not portraying these two as grey, you're just reversing the moral roles.

Rozzeta14 votes

{quoted}

So even if you don't believe Kayle is a tyrant who is in fact so self-righteous and careless that she is on the borderline of being "evil", I also don't think Morgana is evil. At the very most, Morgana is a deserter or traitor, but not for selfish or evil reasons. She is one of the few of her own kind who fought against what she perceived was tyranny.

Basically, Morgana is what Riven would have been if she wasn't such an emo whiner, and actually stood for what she believes in.

Morgana goes as far as to acquire a dark magic that seems to causes her suffering, only to stand on even ground against her own sister, considered one of the most powerful angels.

I really wish the JoJ was still around. It had some interesting, and rather exotic, ways to show Morgana more as an activist, who was actually concerned about the angels invading Runeterra and enslaving everyone.

Melancholy Exile5 votes

{quoted}

Basically, Morgana is what Riven would have been if she wasn't such an emo whiner, and actually stood for what she believes in.

I think it's a little bit easier to stand for what you believe in when you're an immortal sorceress, at least matched for power with the greatest of your kind, and had conflict thrust upon you and your allies rather than bearing the responsibility of starting the argument.

Spizzle900014 votes

This opinion will probably be unpopular, but I don't find Kayle tyrannical at all. It takes a ruler with an iron fist to keep order. There are no reported incidents of her being cruel or violent, so I think we can safely assume what "evil" she does is merely for the good of all.

Sometimes you have to be harsh with punishments. Without fear of consequences, there is nothing keeping criminals in check.

Here's an example: while Vladimir the Impaler ruled, Wallachia was very stable. Why? Because all who caused chaos were brutally punished. Also, I believe in WWI at the home front, there were laws against speaking ill of the war and what the government was doing so the war effort would continue more effectively.

Without rules, people have nothing holding them back. Kayle is merely the harsh, but just safeguard against chaos.

Morgana has a point that Kayle may seem tyrannical, but according to many Enlightenment philosophers, people are in a state of perfect freedom. Morgana would love that point. But they also state that people give up some of their individual rights for the good and order of all.

We cannot truly decide who is in the right and wrong; they're both kinda in the gray area. Without more information on the context, I'd have to say Kayle is the better of the two.

Also, generally when people say black magic, it implies innately evil. Like Vladimir's craft. It is focused around manipulating the life force of others. I assume Morgana's "black magic" probably has something to do with some sort of ancient, forbidden rituals that have some relations to sacrifice, too much destruction, or perhaps some sort of deal with the devil.

If we were to look at the two in the extremes, what would you rather have: anarchy or fascism? It's a matter of opinion.

Queenpin9 votes

If we were to look at the two in the extremes, what would you rather have: anarchy or fascism? It's a matter of opinion.

That's an interesting question you've posed. Subscribers to both extremes believe that they're method of conducting society is well founded and just, and each side has it's pros and cons. The struggle between Kayle and Morgana reminds me of something I read in a law textbook once, it said (not verbatim): that the argument over what's morally right and morally wrong is never ending, because people will never be able to agree.

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

... And right now, the most stable country in northern Africa is Morocco because there's a well established monarchy, respected by its population. Sometimes reality is sad.

Champion Skin3 votes

Monarchies aren't necessarily evil And it has some upsides or good points when compared to democracy like the fact that it can get things done a lot quicker and as thus can in theory adapt better to changing situations

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

The most efficient form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. That's food for though.

Ralanr10 votes

They are both neutral. Kayle is lawful neutral and Morgana is chaotic neutral. They are extremes.

And no, Jinx isn't the only chaotic neutral character in league. She just represents the stereotype type the most.

FistOfSharkiesha13 votes

Are you kidding me? Jinx is evil. She shows no regards to the well-being of people or their property. She is one of the most evil people in league. All she does is cause havoc and destroy. She isn't even motivated by self-gain or anything, she just ruins everything for everyone else.

Ralanr11 votes

All for fun. She's chaotic stupid. She'll blow up a building whether or not it had people in it, whether they are good, bad, Zuanian, Piltover, Demacian, Noxian, or Yordles.

She blows it up because she wants an explosion. She's amoral instead of immoral.

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

My point is she has a blatant disregard for other lives. It could be justifiable if she was doing it for personal gain and we could call it selfishness or tyranny, but she's doing it because she doesn't fucking care. She's not delusional, she doesn't think she's doing it for the greater good, she's straight up evil.

Penta Penguin3 votes

She is fucking crazy.

GreenLore2 votes

Isn't that pretty much the definition of chaotic EVIL?

I mean the joker causes death and destruction for fun. Jinx pretty much does the same only that she focuses on the destruction more and doesn't care for the death.

Ralanr1 votes

Evil can be hard to pin down. Usually evil comes with the intention to harm others. That thought doesn't cross her mind (as I see it). She just wants to blow stuff up. She won't stab you in a dark alley, where's the fun in that?

GreenLore1 votes

But she will destroy my stuff if she finds it fun,which does hurt me indirectly.

If I go to your house and blow it up,killing everyone who was still inside,simply because I found it fun how your house crumbles,would you say that I am not evil?

Ralanr2 votes

I'd call you a pyscho.

If you targeted me specifically, I'd point that out. Jinx is more like a sibling that wants to annoy the other by breaking their stuff.

GreenLore4 votes

Being a psycho doesn't mean you can't be evil.(the joker is a psycho and he is pretty much the poster boy for chaotic evil)

Chaotic evil is pretty much about doing evil things simply for the sake of doing them. Destruction for destructions sake is by no means good or even neutral,there is no gain in it and it does hurt,mutilate or even kill people.

Originally jinx was called chaotic neutral,based on the logic that " that nothing she does is fueled by a desire to kill but to have fun, just that her fun involves blowing stuff up and living things tend not to survive getting blown up.",but by this logic then arson isn't evil either.Heck by this logic killers wouldn't be evil as long as they kill for the sake of "fun"

SEKAI6 votes

It's like bible I suppose, where Satan, the root of all evil killed like 6 people in total while God had wiped off the planet several times all because he was angered.

Still can't stop people blaming all the bad things onto Satan yo.

But hey, what do I know.

GreenLore6 votes

You know quotes like "Share in my torment!" "Without mercy." "They will suffer." Are pretty sinister,implying that Morgana enjoys hurting her enemies and doing this mainly because she herself suffered(but just because you suffered doesn't mean its right to hurt others).

Morganas lore says outright that she isn't innocent either and I doubt that they just mean the fact that she uses dark magic.

In the end I hope they leave the conflict gray. Both Morgana and Kayle have their good and bad sides and thats how it should be kept.

Melancholy Exile1 votes

The thing you've got to bear in mind when it comes to Morgana's voiceover is that it hails back to her original lore wherein she was cast out of the Heavens after attempting to discredit and depose Kayle, who had been promoted ahead of her, and was heavily implied to have received her dark powers after making a pact with demonic entities. It don't strictly represent her present character at all.

GreenLore1 votes

Uhm the core of her lore was never really changed. It was always "she perceived Kayle and her fellows as tyrants,so she fought against them" It was never about deposing Kayle.

Melancholy Exile1 votes

You might want to have a look through here.

GreenLore2 votes

I wouldn't count that much about this lore,as it is not even beta lore.

But even then Morganas lore outright calls her "not innocent either",so it is safe to say that morgana isn't entirely good too.

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

Not evil, but I wouldn't call Morgana nice either.

Daedalus8713 votes

There's a lot of grey in the Kayle and Morgana fight and we need more info to call one or the other "evil".

Smitty Manjensen3 votes

Well according to her lore she wasn't necessary evil, but became evil by mastering the dark arts, I don't think you can be good while wielding dark energies and dark power, it doesn't add up.

FistOfSharkiesha7 votes

But dark arts =/= evil. Dark/black magic usually means ancient or forbidden moreso than evil. Magic isn't inherently evil unless it comes at the cost of doing something evil like spilling innocent blood.

Castanean5 votes

I'm pretty sure that even then, magic ain't directly evil either. There's the situation where the spilling of innocent blood is a neccesary sacrifice, while the spell itself can have overall beneficial effects or may be the only thing capable of stopping complete, utter destruction.

There's also the case where the innocent sacrifice is being sacrificed willingly, I doubt it's evil then, just... really, really grey. And probably not pleasant for the sacrificer either.

Long story short; Dark is not evil. A favourite trope of mine. Also; "Evil" is relative. The situation and current condition and state of things can change what things are truly evil and which aren't.

Smitty Manjensen1 votes

{quoted}

But dark arts =/= evil. Dark/black magic usually means ancient or forbidden moreso than evil. Magic isn't inherently evil unless it comes at the cost of doing something evil like spilling innocent blood.

Sorry man but forbidden = evil, I mean why would it be forbidden in the first place xD.

Melancholy Exile2 votes

To theorise: Because it couldn't be controlled by those who already held power or because they weren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to wield it and yet feared the potential of those who might.

Those who make the law define what is forbidden. Something can be forbidden and yet recognisably good and moral.

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Melancholy Exile,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HxYXvBkx,comment-id=0008000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-23T11:43:16.132+0000)

To theorise: Because it couldn't be controlled by those who already held power or because they weren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to wield it and yet feared the potential of those who might.

Those who make the law define what is forbidden. Something can be forbidden and yet recognisably good and moral.

Well, I don't think so, there's a reason why it's forbidden and called dark magic or arts, plus you don't need to be an expert to see morgana became evil, the description of her abilities is kinda enough, I don't think a good person would name his ability or whatever dark binding or tormented soil. She was neutral in the lore but with her lust for power to defeat kayle she became pretty much evil and would do anything to destroy her, good people don't do that.

Champion Skin2 votes

Good people don't do that.. Well no but pretty much nobody are perfectly good

And wanting to destroy what one considers evil is pretty common no? In Morgana's eyes Kayle is pretty much the symbol and power of tyranny which sacrifices the individual and freedom for no or little gain (in Morgana's point of view) (how true this is... is unknown as we simply don't know much about Kayle and Morgana's society and the laws that Kayle enforce and upholds)

And something being forbidden doesn't always make it bad... Like the Nazi made helping and sheltering Jew's illegal and forbidden.. that doesn't make it evil or a bad thing to do (extreme example)

And other things are forbidden for no good or apparent reason

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HxYXvBkx,comment-id=000800000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-23T12:27:05.622+0000)

Good people don't do that.. Well no but pretty much nobody are perfectly good

And wanting to destroy what one considers evil is pretty common no? In Morgana's eyes Kayle is pretty much the symbol and power of tyranny which sacrifices the individual and freedom for no or little gain (in Morgana's point of view) (how true this is... is unknown as we simply don't know much about Kayle and Morgana's society and the laws that Kayle enforce and upholds)

And something being forbidden doesn't always make it bad... Like the Nazi made helping and sheltering Jew's illegal and forbidden.. that doesn't make it evil or a bad thing to do (extreme example)

And other things are forbidden for no good or apparent reason

That example kinda isn't good in this case, we are talking about magic, dark and powerful magic which was sealed and then used by morgana, by the appearance you can tell that magic is made for destruction and suffering which she is trying to use to defeat kayle, she probably became blind with power to defeat kayle, and I don't think she would stop if she was able to kill her for good.

Champion Skin1 votes

Guns are made to kill people... are guns evil? No not really they are simply a tool which people use as they please... and if people use them for evil things... then those people are evil.. not the guns

Same with Magic no? Unless the magic requires sacrificing others I don't see how it is any different... it is simply a tool neither good nor evil

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HxYXvBkx,comment-id=00080000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-24T14:35:02.116+0000)

Guns are made to kill people... are guns evil? No not really they are simply a tool which people use as they please... and if people use them for evil things... then those people are evil.. not the guns

Same with Magic no? Unless the magic requires sacrificing others I don't see how it is any different... it is simply a tool neither good nor evil

Now you basically said what I have been saying, morgana uses it for destruction so she's evil XD, you kinda proven my point there.

Champion Skin2 votes

Ehh... what part of Morgan's lore says anything about her being destructive and destroying anything (other then Kayle and what Morgana perceives as tyranny)

If anything Kayle would be more destructive with all of the lives she has taken

The only thing we really know is that Morgana and Kayle fight each other and fight for their ideals And that Kayle has served the law for a long time killing/purging lots of evil (though what was evil about them is unknown it can be anything from simply disagreeing with the law and how things are in society to being a murderer or monster)

We know nothing about how Morgana and Kayle have been fighting each other and what they have done during the war

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HxYXvBkx,comment-id=0008000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-24T14:46:38.580+0000)

Ehh... what part of Morgan's lore says anything about her being destructive and destroying anything (other then Kayle and what Morgana perceives as tyranny)

If anything Kayle would be more destructive with all of the lives she has taken

The only thing we really know is that Morgana and Kayle fight each other and fight for their ideals And that Kayle has served the law for a long time killing/purging lots of evil (though what was evil about them is unknown it can be anything from simply disagreeing with the law and how things are in society to being a murderer or monster)

We know nothing about how Morgana and Kayle have been fighting each other and what they have done during the war

Well no point in arguing anymore, you're probably one of the people who consider Jinx neutral.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that in Morganas lore at the end it mentions how she fights on the Fields of Justice to destroy/kill Kayle over and over again, there's your proof that she's evil.

Queenpin1 votes

{quoted}

Well no point in arguing anymore, you're probably one of the people who consider Jinx neutral.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that in Morganas lore at the end it mentions how she fights on the Fields of Justice to destroy/kill Kayle over and over again, there's your proof that she's evil.

Remember, nearly anything can be justified because everyone has their own set of morals. This therefore means that nothing can really be defined and good or evil because such things are based upon opinion which (believe it or not) can't be proven wrong. Think about it this way, the best "villains" usually see themselves as the hero of the story. From Morgana's perspective she is merely misunderstood and fighting against the tyranny of a person who's committed genocide, so to her killing Kayle over and over is just. I think @Spizzle9000 said it best, Morgana and Kayle are just opposite ends of the same spectrum. There is no evil or good just differing opinions.

As for Jinx I'm unsure if alignment is objective enough to be used so definitively, so I'll stick to calling her amoral.

Smitty Manjensen1 votes

{quoted}

Remember, nearly anything can be justified because everyone has their own set of morals. This therefore means that nothing can really be defined and good or evil because such things are based upon opinion which (believe it or not) can't be proven wrong. Think about it this way, the best "villains" usually see themselves as the hero of the story. From Morgana's perspective she is merely misunderstood and fighting against the tyranny of a person who's committed genocide, so to her killing Kayle over and over is just. I think @Spizzle9000 said it best, Morgana and Kayle are just opposite ends of the same spectrum. There is no evil or good just differing opinions.

As for Jinx I'm unsure if alignment is objective enough to be used so definitively, so I'll stick to calling her amoral.

I see where's the problem, if she thinks she's not evil she's not evil? That's not how it works, if everyone thinks she's evil except her, well guess what, she is, and for Jinx she's evil, just like the Joker for Batman, they don't care for human lives or property, they just do shit cause it's "fun" to them, that's pretty evil and any normal human being or whatever would think that.

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

{quoted}

So evil defined by the majority? If I went to Kyrgyzstan, Ala kachuu (bride kidnapping) is common practice, would that then make it alright for me to take a person against their will? Or would I perhaps have to realize that different cultures foster different viewpoints on what's right and wrong? Your definition of "good" is not only definition, and it can not be the correct definition be cause it is founded on an opinion (nobody can define good or evil). I don't know how else to say this besides "different stokes for different folks".

You proposed that Morgana believing she's isn't evil doesn't make her a good person, did you ever stop to think that in the same fashion, you believing she's evil doesn't make her evil?

Okay, seriously, if 99 people find her evil as an example, and only 1 doesn't, that should indicate that something is not right there, there's a reason why most people would think she's evil, by your logic Hitler didn't do evil stuff, just cause the majority said he is the cause for over 6 million people dying doesn't mean he's evil, he pretty much was.

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