Please prioritize a Zilean passive rework.

FistOfSharkiesha·Jul 7, 2015·108 votes·4,289 views

His passive is universally understood to be pitiful. It's an abysmal early game difference and has 0 effect lategame. I honestly think his entire kit needs to be addressed again since his rework made his Q so unreliable and nerfed his ultimate timer, but his passive should be the major focus. I feel like it would be easiest to fix, and by making it more impactful, it may actually reduce or get rid of the need to change the rest of his kit. Make it global again or change it altogether. Getting a level increase 1 minion death before the enemy is not a gamechanger, and it has the simple counterplay of either pushing a bit against Zilean or being passive for the half a second your enemies have a level advantage.

I've never seen him in a game I've played since his rework.

68 Comments

HokagesDiscipleJul 7, 20154 votes

Some champions have bad passives, and thats OK. His kit is still fun, although more difficult since the rework. I like Zil the way he is c:

Champion SkinJul 7, 20151 votes

I think they should change Zilean's passive and put some damage on it... Why? Well so that his damage at least somewhat scales through the game instead of spiking hard at level 9 and not getting any better (Zilean as he currently is doesn't gain any increased base damages or anything like that after level 9.... which means his level 9 damage is absurd or his base damage is rather bad...)

HokagesDiscipleJul 7, 20151 votes

If he scaled into the late game they would have to take some of his early game damage out. Zil right now in my opinion is best as a support because of his early game bullying which lets your adc get ahead and they push that advantage into the late game so Zil's late game damage doesn't matter, he just has to ult. If you want to take him mid then you're totally right, his late game damage is garbage and not reliant. But if they up his damage late game then him in support role would just be ridiculous.

Trias000Jul 7, 201511 votes

His passive isn't bad. It's nonexistent.

Maximum ZileanJul 7, 20153 votes

I had an idea for a new Zilean passive for awhile now actually.

Whenever Zilean uses an ability on an ally, their cooldowns are lowered by 2 seconds. Cannot apply to the same target for another 10 seconds.

Would fit thematically.

JakojoJul 7, 20152 votes

I saw a good idea on the forums a while back where someone had the idea of a CDR passive for Zilean. Basically his max CDR caps at 40% like all champs but he gets AP from the amount of CDR he has. So he can build more than 40% worth of CDR and still get bonus AP from it. Somewhat like Azirs passive. Not sure how it would work balance wise but it works thematically.

Not really my idea, saw it and I thought it was cool enough to pass along.

TotN TitanJul 7, 20152 votes

I think that it's more important for the rework of Zilean to come through for no other reason than to define his role in the game. They have redefined champions recently by tweaking their abilities to give them a proper role (like Alistar and Karma getting more focus into becoming primarily support). Given than Zilean's really only use right now is as a team-fighting Guardian Angel; I doubt that is what Riot had in mind for him. They need to work on his AP scaling. They need to work on how his abilities affect the lanes (and which lanes they want him to be viable in). They need to work on his clunky kit and how it pieces together to make a whole champion. His passive is just amongst the pile of garbage that is wrong with Zilean.

I'd much prefer if they took their time on it. At least then we will get less of a knee jerk reaction to a rework and a more complete picture of what they envision his niche to be in League of Legends.

Solidair3Jul 7, 20152 votes

I've actually played him quite a bit since the rework, he's really effective in mid lane against an all-in champ like Zed.

I will say, however, that his passive is garbage and needs to be changed, preferably sooner rather than later.

CreationFlawJul 7, 20151 votes

Pretty sure hitting level two before the enemy is a decent sized game changer. But he's just thrown in with other champions that have shit passives. Alistar Renekton Fiora Fiddlesticks

A Miss FortuneJul 7, 20152 votes

Zyra Soraka Twitch Lulu

SpecterVonBarenJul 7, 20158 votes

I can debate that Raka or Twitch's passives are good or not, and I agree that Zyra has a crappy passive, but Lulu's passive is NOT weak. Lulu's passive is her main form of poke damage early game if she wants to not go oom from spamming spells and come late game, even with a small amount of AP, can give an ADC with her E on them about 100 magic damage on hit.

Auz the RipperJul 8, 20151 votes

Twitch's passive used to be good, before riot decided the remove its internal organs, to use as decoration around their HQ.

CatastropJul 7, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to disagree about everyone except Zyra, because it's like one of the easiest skillshots to dodge in game.

AbyssphereJul 7, 201516 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure hitting level two before the enemy is a decent sized game changer. But he's just thrown in with other champions that have shit passives.

People worked out the math on his passive though. The difference his passive provides in experience in terms of who gets to level 2 first is literally one minion - assuming the lane is going even you get only a couple of seconds with a level advantage and if you're getting even a fraction less experience, it's wasted. And his passive doesn't get better after that.

The "early level 2" thing doesn't exist. His passive does not provide an early advantage.

Champion SkinJul 7, 20152 votes

On some champions level 2 is a big deal where they can go all in and maybe possibly kill their opponent (if they happen to still be level 1)... However I don't see Zilean as one of them...

Sozan5Jul 7, 20153 votes

Actually, on solo lane that's a quite important minion if you can push fast enough, since the minion that gives you the level up normally is the first one of the second wave (meaning that Zilean can get level 2 on the first wave on minions).

On duo lane it's completely useless.

The EcdysiastJul 7, 20153 votes

Alone it makes even less of a difference than it does if he's with a partner. He'll get another Q once before the enemy has their level 2. Woopdiedoo.

Sozan5Jul 7, 20151 votes

Better than not having any advantage at all (because you don't get level 2 earlier on duo lane, you get it with the same minion).

TotalJerkJul 8, 20152 votes

Well of course a borderline useless passive is better than no passive at all.

The EcdysiastJul 11, 20151 votes

Exactly. A passive that's only useful once in the entire game.

TotalJerkJul 7, 20152 votes

Most of those are shit specifically thanks to repeated nerfs from Rito, same as Zilean

excodarJul 7, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure hitting level two before the enemy is a decent sized game changer. But he's just thrown in with other champions that have shit passives.

you realize if renekton didnt have that passive he wouldnt have a fury bar?

Champion SkinJul 7, 20151 votes

Renekton's passive is basically that he gains increased fury gain when he is below 50% Hp.. that's it...

You realize if veigar didn't have a passive he wouldn't have mana? Oh wait...

Trias000Jul 7, 20153 votes

That's why you can't really look at the passive alone, disregarding the rest of a champion's kit. What if Renekton's passive stated "Renekton accumulates fury by attacking or using abilities. At 50 fury his abilities are empowered"? All of a sudden his passive would be godlike. But would that change anything? That said, Zilean's passive is still worthless.

[edit] Actually, Renekton's passive is exactly that - empowered abilities at 50 fury. So it is indeed godlike. I was mislead by wikia, where it only says "Renekton gains 50% more Fury from all sources while below half health."

Tis a nice dayJul 7, 201518 votes

What's bad about -10 MR applied to multiple targets for fiddlesticks?

Champion SkinJul 7, 20151 votes

Well generally without his ult Fiddle doesn't have a great way of applying it... (unless he gets lucky bounces)

DrCyanideJul 7, 20154 votes

Well, Fiddles can apply it with an auto attack now, thanks to Runeglave.

Trias000Jul 7, 20155 votes

He can apply it with autoattacks if he has arcane blade mastery (tested). Though Runeglave gives him nice aoe for that.

Auz the RipperJul 7, 20151 votes

Sunfire Fiddles OP

Champion SkinJul 7, 20152 votes

Fiddle probably shouldn't be building Runeglaive to begin with as he has better and more important items to build Like Zhonyas or CDR/tankiness to be a fear/CC bot

The only reason to build Runeglaive on fiddle is pretty much Mana... though even then Chalice might be better?

MeesterMooJul 8, 20151 votes

Then what would you build him in the jungle then?

TotalJerkJul 8, 20151 votes

Anything else. Runeglaive is a piece of shit on Fiddlesticks because he's one of the few champions who pretty much should never be auto-attacking once he gets to the point where he can afford it.

MeesterMooJul 8, 20151 votes

Alright, let's go build devourer because that attack speed is way better than ap... you're so wrong my friend.

TotalJerkJul 8, 20151 votes

Did I say "anything else" was exclusive to jungle items?

MeesterMooJul 8, 20151 votes

I assumed you were talking about building him in the jungle

Trias000Jul 8, 20151 votes

You can always skip the jungle enchantment altogether. I don't know about Runeglaive on Fiddle, but it's certainly not optimal. He has short aa range, quite slow animation (like most mages), he can't autoattack in the middle of his drain. Basicly the only good thing in Runeglaive for him is, as somebody mentioned, aoe MR reduction from his passive.

Champion SkinJul 8, 20151 votes

It also gives him some mana sustain in the jungle and 10% CDR

TotalJerkJul 8, 20152 votes

finding spots to squeeze in AAs slows his clear speed.

Trias000Jul 8, 20151 votes

Yeah, but he can have that and more if he replaces the jungle item with e.g. item 3165 . Basicly the only thing that he'd miss then would be the enhanced smite.

Champion SkinJul 8, 20152 votes

You build item 3706 and don't enchant it and go straight for item 3157 (you could get Runglaive but that would just be for mana and for 10% CDR) and if you get full build you could just sell your jungle item

magic poleJul 8, 20151 votes

runeglaive on fiddles lol

TotalJerkJul 8, 20151 votes

Nothing. It's just not good enough to matter all that much.

KingsgraveJul 7, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure hitting level two before the enemy is a decent sized game changer. But he's just thrown in with other champions that have shit passives.

Renekton's passive is actually pretty decent. He can't have too powerful of a passive because of how powerful the rest of his kit is.

50% more Fury when combined with the recent Fury buffs to Renekton is actually pretty good. It allows you to be even more terrifying when dropped low.

Alistar gets a free sunfire cape just for using an ability. Pretty decent.

qetzelJul 7, 20154 votes

I think that his passive is "Gets upgraded abilities at the cost of Fury. Can also get bonus Fury".

Like Rumble.

TheRainInSpainJul 7, 20151 votes

Renekton: "Renekton gains Fury for every autoattack he makes. This Fury can empower his abilities with bonus effects. Additionally, Renekton gains bonus Fury when he is low on life."

Rumble: "Every spell Rumble casts gives him Heat. When he reaches 50% Heat he reaches Danger Zone, granting all his basic abilities bonus effects. When he reaches 100% Heat, he starts Overheating, granting his basic attacks bonus damage, but making him unable to cast spells for a few seconds."

Similar, but very different mechanics. Rumble relies on spell spamming to generate Heat. Renekton generates Fury on AA's. Renekton generates more Fury when low on health. Rumble does not. Instead, when Rumble's Heat bar hits 100%, he silences himself and empowers his AA's. Both have empowered abilities when their Fury/Heat bars are above 50% (but below 100% for Rumble). Renekton doesn't care if he has 100% Fury.

CatastropJul 7, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure hitting level two before the enemy is a decent sized game changer. But he's just thrown in with other champions that have shit passives.

I rather like Fiora's passive to be honest. She can sustain herself for lengthy periods by just AA'ing minions. Much less skirmishes, because the increased regen really helps to make more favourable trades.

Harrys Nut ShackJul 7, 20151 votes

Fiora's passive is the only thing keeping her from being a Riven without CC.

alfavhunterOct 1, 20151 votes

New zilean passive Time paradox Zilean can recast any of his basic spells after using them even if they are on CD while time paradox is active (think how rengar ferocity works, you can see the normal Cd ticking in the icon, but the icon becomes a different color) 25/20/15/10 second CD that scales with CDR

W remade -time bubble Creates an bubble that can be placed on an ally or an enemy champion -ally shields them for 50/60/70/80/90+.4 ap for 1.5 seconds, when the shield is broken or exspires the target is healed for 100% of the damage absorbed

-enemy locks an enemy in a time bubble causing them to deal 30/35/40/45/50% less damage from all sources for 1.5 seconds

This makes zilean stronger as a support and solo lane because he gains sustain through the new W in lane, and W becomes useful late game by being able to reduce an enemies damage output Severly for a short time

At the same time this keeps zilean focused as a utility Mage that has mana issues, and loves CDR over damage due to the sheer utility he brings