"Nasus is a lategame champ"

Craft Zeppelin··84 votes·21,127 views

No he isn't. He is a midgame champ. He is at his strongest when marksmen are not prepared to kill him, and when triforce is at its prime. So please, do not get your hopes up when you get killed early. It ain't gonna happen if you cannot bring the house down at midgame.

89 Comments

Dead flag blues6 votes

What ? No one ever said Nasus is a late-game champ. Late-game he gets blown up because he lacks everything to reach marksmen, and most of them have enough items to 1v1 him. He shines when he gets item 3078 + his first defensive item, other than that he get shat on

MorganFreemanBot37 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYE3MnbM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-05T15:42:34.581+0000)

What ? No one ever said Nasus is a late-game champ. Late-game he gets blown up because he lacks everything to reach marksmen, and most of them have enough items to 1v1 him. He shines when he gets item 3078 + his first defensive item, other than that he get shat on

Read the boards sometime.

People commonly say that Nasus is a late game monster, and I've seen posters (myself included) crushed under the weight of popular opinion for stating that he's a mid game champ.

TempName5484634 votes

i mean nasus would be a late game "monster" if adcs weren't as stupidly fucking broken as they are.

TheSandQrator19 votes

It's not just ADCs (though they are a heck of a contributor to the problem).

It's more the fact that it's super super easy for a group of three or more people to keep him far enough from them where he's not a threat. He's big and slow unless he itemizes movement speed among his tankiness (which I've done on a number of occasions and it was hilarious, especially with Talisman), and the only thing he can do at a distance is slow/cripple one person (but a hell of a slow), and drop a stationary AoE.

I mean, I'm not complaining that that's a really good way to nullify his strengths as it's an intended weakness, so fair enough; these days it's hard to feel like the payoff for managing it is justified, though. And heaven help you if you rely on pulling a couple from the enemy team to deal with you, because they'll likely ignore you, tear through your team 4v5, and take objectives faster than you can.

But yeah, the 'late game monster' thing for him hasn't been true for several years now (outside of very niche circumstances), and it irks me whenever folks yell about his infinite scaling when it's got a very narrow method of employing that power. All the stacks in the world mean jack if you can't get close enough to actually hit something with them.

MorganFreemanBot2 votes

{quoted}

i mean nasus would be a late game "monster" if adcs weren't as stupidly fucking broken as they are.

Except ADCs haven't always been this broken, and Nasus has never been a late game monster.

The closest we've gotten was S4 - S5, when he was a power top. However Nasus' strength then was in his ability to endure lane phase (this was before his passive life steal was nerfed and scaled insanely fast) and then become an insane split pusher. Sure, he'd snap towers like pretzels and chew through 1-2 people sent to stop him no problem, but throw him in an actual team fight and he was generally a non-issue.

His fighting spike has alwabs been in the mid game after a successful laning phase, where he's monstrously tanky due to the lack of pen items (no one has LW / void staff yet) and people don't have enough CDR to permanently lock him down.

Death by Glamour1 votes

Alot of the melee carries

Trynd yi and maybe jax can outduel him

TempName548462 votes

trynda and jax definitely can't, yi definitely can.

Death by Glamour1 votes

yes they can...

TempName548462 votes

we can go into a 1v1 game right now, you play trynda or jax n i will play nasus. i don't play a lot of jax but i have a shitload of trynda games and a decent nasus will just completely beat your ass late game no matter what you do.

f4n3ysh4rk1 votes

lol... Jax with troforce and ragenlade can easily outduel him because his E blocks his Q so he has just very little damage

TempName548461 votes

jax presses e - nasus hits w and walks away

f4n3ysh4rk1 votes

Jax presses q and beats the shit out of nasus

TempName548461 votes

ye that 1-2 autos is really going to kill that late game tank nasus fam.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Not with the build i suggested

KZ Engel2 votes

correction: supports break adc

rtbf2216514123 votes

{quoted}

People commonly say that Nasus is a late game monster

He used to be until damage became ridiculous.

How? Q stacks + All defensive items. He has a gap closer. It's his W and can be item 3022 or item 3025 . Triforce, however, is his go to then majority defense when late game.

Now we have rito thinking more true damage and more damage that can't be countered easily is a good idea.

Dead flag blues1 votes

{quoted}

Read the boards sometime.

People commonly say that Nasus is a late game monster, and I've seen posters (myself included) crushed under the weight of popular opinion for stating that he's a mid game champ.

Now I need to understand why we literally said the same thing, but I get downvoted to Oblivion when you get upvoted

NemeBro13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYE3MnbM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-05T15:42:34.581+0000)

What ? No one ever said Nasus is a late-game champ. Late-game he gets blown up because he lacks everything to reach marksmen, and most of them have enough items to 1v1 him. He shines when he gets item 3078 + his first defensive item, other than that he get shat on

No ADC can 1v1 Nasus late game save maybe Vayne.

notice me Sin pi3 votes

Agreed. He misanalyzed why nasus is trash late game; 1vs1s rarely happen in late game but he didnt mention that

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Good thing there is never a reason for an ADC to ever 1v1 him huh? Almost like this is a team game or something.

NemeBro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYE3MnbM,comment-id=000100010002,timestamp=2018-05-06T04:39:38.072+0000)

Good thing there is never a reason for an ADC to ever 1v1 him huh? Almost like this is a team game or something.

Can you read?

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Yes. You said that Nasus can 1v1 every adc in the game. I said that that scenario should NEVER pop up ever so it is a useless argument.

NemeBro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYE3MnbM,comment-id=00010001000200000000,timestamp=2018-05-07T06:26:18.565+0000)

Yes. You said that Nasus can 1v1 every adc in the game. I said that that scenario should NEVER pop up ever so it is a useless argument.

So no, you can't read.

hint: I wasn't the one who brought up Nasus' ability to 1v1 ADCs.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

{quoted}

No ADC can 1v1 Nasus late game save maybe Vayne.

Vayne attacks from her max range Nasus WITHER!!!!! + item 3082 Vayne :(

Hes a lategame champ against full ad or full ap teams.

oh wait item 3071 item 3036

Starcraft243ver1 votes

Condemn + tumble + invibility + mercurial + botrk active.

Marshbouy6 votes

Eventually he gets back up their when the game hits hyper-late game (like 60+ minutes), he has 1000+ stacks, and he can literally one shot people by just looking at him.

But yeah, 30-40 minutes in is probably his weakest point.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku5 votes

What's your goal ???

He is a midgame champ.

Yeah he is, but nobody think other outside silver.

Craft Zeppelin8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYE3MnbM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-05T15:36:15.088+0000)

What's your goal ???

Yeah he is, but nobody think other outside silver.

But then there is the question, "when the hell is midgame" in this meta. It is a confusing matter that makes illusions such as this.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

At the end of laning phase (first tower down)

TheSandQrator3 votes

The point they're making is that there's so many ways to define that, and first turrets go down pretty much anywhere between 7 minutes and 22 minutes these days. (e.g. First turret is taken on average at around 13:30-14:00 during my games recently, but I've had it happen as early as 9:25 and as late as 18:20. That's a whole ten minutes' variance in games that don't really often last north of 40 minutes.) While I have no actual solid figures outside of my personal games, it does make me wish, once again, that Riot made more match data public, because it's hard to really back anything up without it.

That variance makes it pretty difficult to put solid and more importantly, meaningful descriptors for different periods in the game based on one factor alone. Both teams would have a lot more under their belt at 25 minutes compared to what they'd have at 10 minutes. So perhaps it might be better to say that mid game begins when at least one team is comfortable with the thought of grouping and rotating more consistently, instead?

Yaskamasandwich5 votes

People still cling onto old Nasus when he was the hyper late game scaling champion. That was before patch 4.1 when his wither range got nerfed hard and he couldn't wither the carry from the front lines. The nail in the coffin was the Marksmen update with Mercurial Scimitar going to Marksmen when it was an item actually designed for him. That and the whole 6 offensive items Marksmen formula destroyed him and all other Juggernauts, and Divers, all melee champions late game. He can still 1v1 most marksmen any time thanks to ult buffs 7.15 but chances are really slim to none.

Trias0005 votes

According to champion.gg and op.gg his winrate is highest after 40+ minutes.

Pika Fox2 votes

Game length average is about 20 mins, even assuming an average of 30 mins 40 is still above the expected average game length.

Trias0001 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYE3MnbM,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-05-05T22:24:58.584+0000)

Game length average is about 20 mins, even assuming an average of 30 mins 40 is still above the expected average game length.

Well, that proves Nasus is a lategame champion (or late-lategame), doesn't it?

Pika Fox1 votes

If the fame lasts 4 hours sure, he auto wins. But thats not a reasonable expectation of the champion.

Sugarlicious5 votes

Considering I just got destroyed by Nasus while everybody was lvl 18 and the game lasted for almost an hour, I'd say he is mid+ in a sense that he starts obliterating people at mid but unless he is controlled then, he will just keep destroying everything until the end, especially if he's not the only tank in the team.

Beerstein4 votes

Depends on how fast you get gold. I'd argue late game doesn't exist anymore. Goes from mid-late within 5 min. Maybe in bronze where gold income moves slower.

Disembark2 votes

The lack of cs in bronze is evened out by the number of kills.

Wînter Fox4 votes

Yes he is. The only reason you're saying he's not is because ADCs scale even harder - and we all know ADC damage is a problem already 2 items in. He may not be doing late game Vayne levels of destruction, but he's still one of highest scaling champions in the game and taking down champions/turrets/inhibs/nexuses with a just Q or two.

Morticianjohn3 votes

Every site I check has his winrate going up from 30-40 minutes. Considering 40 minutes is "late game" I'd say that he's a "late game champ" because his win rate is highest after 40 minutes.

Only in bronze it appears his win rate falls from the 30-40 minute range to the 40+ minute games. Probably because bronze don't know how to split push.

In fact he's listed as 5th among top lane champions in 40+ minute games. IMO the statistics do say that Nasus is a "late game champ"

Cerbearus3 votes

i mean once you are at 90 minutes and have 1200 stacks, im pretty sure you could be considered relevant.

Pika Fox3 votes

Thats like 4.5 times the expected average game length though...

Starcraft243ver1 votes

I actually lost the game in which I got 1100 stacks, I was over fed and was having fun delaying the win.

Problem is when everybody is full stuff, a full stuff nasus is paper.

pryda0223 votes

[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYE3MnbM,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-05T15:03:59.943+0000)

No he isn't. He is a midgame champ. He is at his strongest when marksmen are not prepared to kill him, and when triforce is at its prime. So please, do not get your hopes up when you get killed early. It ain't gonna happen if you cannot bring the house down at midgame.

hes both mid and late........ while hes not broken anymore cuz of the klepto and support item nerfs. nasus is the poster child for don't do anything risky and lose lane without feeding hit level 6 become safe hit level 9 start trading back hit level 11 and power spike and 1v3 ... now he falls off a bit around level 14 but then becomes a spilt pushing monster at 40 plus mins where a good nasus player will do 1 of 2 things force enemy team to fight or go for baron because you are spillting and cant be stopped 1v1 and then tp flank to get on adc or peel champs like kha6 with wither and a q bop for ez kills for your carries. nasus isn't supposed to be able to kill a 5 item adc with support peel after silver/gold elo cuz adcs can kite doenst mean your 700 stack nasus cant still carry team fights

SKB Bad Bunny3 votes

Nasus deals huge damage late game too and destroys ADCs, usually because ADCs are more concerned about escaping from him rather than hitting him since his W is the nastiest slow in the game. Nasus's problem is that he lacks the engage potential most top laners have, so if you're gonna play him, it better be with a jungler or support that can provide the engage, else your only way to get to the backline is running through the entire enemy team, which will get you killed.

Pupel1 votes

If they wanna make Nasus a late game champ they need to give him tenacity with stacks. then he will be the late game hyper carry that he was intended to be.

CasterGilgamesh9 votes

lol like tenacity will stop Janna and other knock ups or displacements

Pika Fox1 votes

I mean, tenacity does affect the stuns with knockups. GP and QSS can negate knockups via flash or other mobility after use (GP has to flash).

TrikzterzArma1 votes

Tenacity doesnt affect displacements

Pika Fox1 votes

It at least used to, as knockups were displacements + stuns, and tenacity would make the stun wear off faster so you could use mobility before hitting the ground, which is why gp can orange flash a knockup instantly.

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