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Why The F Does Tristana's Jump Not Dodge Things?!?

Teh Song··1 votes·1,589 views

I just, I can't..............

Every time I "dodge" by jumping over/away from something, only for it to hit me anyway, I get a little shocked and find it extremely irksome. I hate it and it's a real buzzkill WTF moment.

Despite that feeling it always comes with, it's so blatantly given that Tristana 's jump should dodge things that by the time I get into the next fight, despite still being annoyed by the idiocy of it not dodging I essentially forget that it doesn't dodge things and I get hid mid-air again. And get that feeling of shock and dumbfounded frustration again.

Even Fizz , who is far more of a threat than Tristana without their jumps, can jump over things. Why the flying F can't Tristana jump over stuff!?! I can't make sense of this. There is no reason for it not to be a dodge.

Edit: Apparently it wasn't clear that I'm talking about skill shots. Targeted abilities aren't supposed to be dodge-able at all, that's sort of the point of them not being skill shots.

Edit: Allow me to restate this as clear as I can. If the Champ shouldn't have a dodge, then there movement ability needs to be a dash. On the ground. If the champion has a jump, it needs to dodge things.

I don't care in which direction they fix Tristana. They can make her Rocket Jump dodge skill-shots, or they can change it to "Rocket Dash", and have her blast herself straight forward on the ground. Either way.

32 Comments

MLDzXnRRR4 votes

Because it's not a real jump... it's animation of a jump in a computer game with own set of rules.

zlumpy2 votes

Zac E has the same problem.

Void Nargacuga2 votes

Tristana Rocket Jump is treated as a Dash. Hence why you can't "Jump" over certain things. For an example: Veigar Event Horizon since it stops Dashes dead in their tracks as soon as you touch the edges.

Teh Song1 votes

Well that's just f-d up. Dashes and Jumps are different things that need to be implemented differently. If the animation is a jump; if the ability says you jump, then it's not a f-g dash, it's a jump, and it needs to be coded as a jump, which means you can dodge with it.

This mistake is just an idiotic failure of her design, and needs to be fixed.

Quepha2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UT4ygkKq,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-08-15T07:45:50.583+0000)

Well that's just f-d up. Dashes and Jumps are different things that need to be implemented differently. If the animation is a jump; if the ability says you jump, then it's not a f-g dash, it's a jump, and it needs to be coded as a jump, which means you can dodge with it.

This mistake is just an idiotic failure of her design, and needs to be fixed.

You've got it backwards. Making some dashes jump over things removes a ton of clarity from the game as what abilities can be hopped over would feel like it was determined purely on a case by case basis. It's much easier on the player to simply say "Dashes don't jump over stuff. Ever." so the behavior is always consistent.

Teh Song1 votes

They wouldn't be dashes, they would be jumps. Dashes wouldn't jump over stuff. Jumps would. If the animation shows you jump, you dodge. If it shows you move along the ground, you don't. Blinks are separate as well, and with Blinks you don't so much as "dodge" as you simply aren't where the attack was going anymore, so Blinks would get you out of harms way as well.

There's no room for confusion here, you just wouldn't generalize all movement abilities under one term. Jumps would be jumps. Dashes would be dashes. Blinks would be blinks. They could all have their own rules and there's nothing unclear about it.

And as for the "case by case basis" point; Well yeah. It should be determined on a case by case basis.

"Do we want to give this champion a movement ability? (Yes) Okay, now what kind to we want? A dash? A jump?"

Whether or not they want the champion to be able to dodge would be a determining factor in what kind of ability to make the movement ability. If they don't want this champion dodging things, then they would make it a dash. Not a jump or blink.

If they want Tristana to have a jump, it needs to dodge things. If they don't want her dodging, then they need to rework her so it's a dash. Have her shoot a grapple or something. Change the animation so she launches herself straight forward instead of into the air.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

Lets say Veigar uses his Primordial Burst (Ultimate) on someone. When they dash, "jump", or even blink... It will still hit them due to it being a targeted skill. Now if he was trying to hit you with his Baleful strike you just moved out of the skillshots line of fire and you won't get hit, hell you could have WALKED out of the way. Huge difference there.

You can still get past walls with these Dashes: Tristana Rocket Jump, Vayne Tumble (only 2 VERY specific spots from what I understand), Riven 3rd Q hop, Khazix jump, Zac slingshot, Azir Shurima Shuffle combo, Hecarim Ultimate and E, Sion ultimate when he hits something (I think its specific types of terrain, I can't test this since I don't own him, but its possible), Kindred Dance of Arrows... I could keep going, but I wont its just getting too long now and I can't remember them all.

Teh Song1 votes

I'm talking about skill-shots. Targeted abilities, by being targeted, would cause champions to shoot them up at the jumping champion.

I haven't had any annoying moments with targeted abilities, as that's how they are supposed to work.

But when I'm pointedly jumping over skill shots like Morgana's Q, but getting hit by them anyway, there's a problem. Morgana didn't throw her little ball of stun and death up in the air, it's traveling along the ground. Therefor, I should be able to jump over it.

As for going over terrain, it doesn't matter what type of movement it is. Jump over the little hill, blink past it, or run/climb over it, whatever. So long as it's range is long enough to reach the other side.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UT4ygkKq,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-15T08:23:58.051+0000)

If they want Tristana to have a jump, it needs to dodge things. If they don't want her dodging, then they need to rework her so it's a dash. Have her shoot a grapple or something. Change the animation so she launches herself straight forward instead of into the air.

If this is a balance issue you're complaining about then you are waaaaaay off base. Allowing Tristana to dodge abilities with her rocket jump would make her miles beyond broken.

Teh Song1 votes

It's not a balance issue. It's a functionality/mechanics issue.

Read the edit I just added.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UT4ygkKq,comment-id=000300000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-16T04:30:53.560+0000)

It's not a balance issue. It's a functionality/mechanics issue.

Read the edit I just added.

You're talking about a massive art update that also changes the thematics of a lot of abilities into things that are less fitting and less entertaining. I'd rather keep Tristana's classic goomba stomp even if the cost is that every single new player has to figure out that jumps don't dodge skillshots.

I Q1 votes

Fizz's kit is balanced around outplaying by dodging skillshots with his jump and dealing damage in creative ways.

Tristana is not balanced around that, also fizz is the only champion with a hop that HAS ANIMATION (No blinks like Ekko E) that can dodge skillshots.

Also, comparing Trist to fizz, who is getting reworked later in the year is a horrid idea.

LordGeovanni1 votes

lol you said fizz's kit is balanced

I Q2 votes

No, I said that he is balanced AROUND something, not that he is balanced

Ghxztt1 votes

AP Fizz is balanced. Tank Fizz, however..

Meep Man1 votes

Fizz's kit is balanced

He only read that part.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Shenpai Ekko (NA)

  • a day ago

(Fizz's kit is balanced) around outplaying by dodging skillshots with his jump and dealing damage in creative ways.

Im not wrong. i know what i was saying

LordGeovanni1 votes

also with mage items fizz completely ignores the dodgeing as he can kill you with full ap items that have hp on them before you can kill him

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UT4ygkKq,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-15T07:15:24.849+0000)

Even Fizz , who is far more of a threat than Tristana without their jumps, can jump over things. Why the flying F can't Tristana jump over stuff!?!

Both's jump kit were different. Fizz's E makes him invulnerable, while Trist's jump does not.

Darkslayer851 votes

Why do you want to buff her jump anyway. When you make a massive outplay on her, and she's dead, she's just gonna rocket away.

Teh Song1 votes

I refer you to the edit I just added. This isn't a Tristana balance issue, it's a functionality/mechanics issue.

DemainaNyx1 votes

I agree with you but there are plenty of other champs who suffer the same issue. Zac's slingshot shoots him through the air yet a Thresh flay/hook can knock him out of it despite Zac flying over Thresh. Same with Shyvana ult and Kha'Zix leap. Now most of these, on the lol wikia page at least, say that they are dashes in their description except for Kha'Zix's.

The thing more jarring about Fizz's E is the fact he seems to be untargetable the moment he casts it, even before he's on his trident. You can flay and he'll still hops up on his trident without issue even though any other dash would be canceled out by it.

Honestly, I think they should alter Tristana's jump so you don't go so high in the air. It does look deceptively like you can dodge things or jump over things that you really can't. The walls of event horizon or the box are maybe a 1/3 of the height she jumps, yet she's still hit by them. I understand it's because the hitbox travels along the ground and ignores obstacles like terrain, but it's deceptive until you know that. If she only jumped as high as a Kindred hop did, but still travel the same distance Tristana does now, that would make it a little clearer why you're hit with some things.

Teh Song1 votes

This guy gets it.

Colgate Gator1 votes

It's a dash, not a blink. The difference being that Ezreal's warp can safely get him out of Veigar's cage but Lee Sin will stop on his tracks.

Even if it's animated like a jump, the game has no Z-axis, so jumping over stuff doesn't really work that way.

Teh Song1 votes

Z axis not necessary. Just code jumps with animation-timing based immunity.

Also I made an edit you may or may not care about

Meep Man1 votes

In that case...

Aatrox Braum Corki Elise Gnar JarvanIV Jax Jayce Khazix Nidalee Nocturne Pantheon Shyvana Zac and Ziggs should all not be hit during their "jumps"

Teh Song1 votes

Yes. We absolutely should. That, or as stated in the edit I just made, change the ability to be a dash along the ground.

Vistha Kai1 votes

First we should give every single flying/hovering/levitating champion creep block immunity.

Then we can start talking about rationality.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

This thread is insane. Tristana is already one of the safest ADCs in the game. She doesn't also need skill shot immunity when she uses her W.

Want to dodge it? Then actually dodge it.

Teh Song1 votes

I refer you to the edit I just added. This isn't a Tristana balance issue, it's a functionality/mechanics issue.

And jumping over something IS actually dodging it, much more so than walking around it is.

LXII1 votes

I understand your point, and you make sense, but from a balance perspective it would be a nightmare. You only THINK you want champs to not be hit out of the air, as soon as your Morgana stops that incoming Shyvana, Jax, etc, you'll appreciate the fact that it's possible.

Teh Song1 votes

It's not a balance issue. It's a functionality/mechanics issue.

Read the edit I just added.

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