How is Banner of Command being removed from the game before Ohmwrecker?

Jbels·Jun 9, 2018·37 votes·19,825 views

I am actually genuinely curious as to why you guys flat out silently refuse to do anything with this item. It just sits there in shop, doing nothing. Tanks don't need it because they get tanky enough to just eat tower shots. Mages don't get it because it isn't worth the build deviation and most mages don't have to walk that far under tower to kill somebody hugging it. Supports won't take it because it's not generally useful past the point where tanks just tank the tower.

What exactly is the point of not touching this item? Nobody builds it (unless to joke around) and you guys never seem to want to make something out of it. Is there a reason for that?

28 Comments

Alex h8721Jun 9, 201816 votes

Because banner is either a meta-warping toxic/overpowered item, or is never bought at all on any champion.

The version of item 3060 before the recent patch was absolutely toxic to play against as any ap champion, before the nerf to the old I built it on yorick and left it mid vs ekko (who was already behind but still) and the banner'd cannon minion killed ekko and gave me the credit.

And now the current version of banner, even after the hotfix (reducing the amount of damage reduction) is universally good against all champs and is being built by at least 1 person in almost every higher level game because the pushing power it gives is huge.

The item is problematic and super hard to tune, if its too weak no one will build it at all, but if its even decently strong too many people will build it and it becomes oppressive.

BestPudgeNAJun 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEs024kM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-09T18:34:19.046+0000)

Because banner is either a meta-warping toxic/overpowered item, or is never bought at all on any champion.

This is so disgustingly wrong. Banner has never been an OP item ever. Banner right now is nearly perfect, it does exactly what is supposed to do, create pressure and is so fun and enjoyable to play with and against.

The only problem Banner has ever truly has had is the interaction with Barron+Banner buffs stacking.

But i guess league isn't allowed to have items/strats in the game that require brain usage so RIP

Drago326Jun 10, 20182 votes

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Gramps69Jun 10, 20181 votes

It's not fun to lane against someone that rushes banner, idk what you're on

BestPudgeNAJun 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}

It's not fun to lane against someone that rushes banner, idk what you're on

I'm on having a brain. Someone who rushes banner doesn't have shit for combat stats and im fine with that tradeoff. Getting situational more pressure via a banner minion is something that's good for the game.

Teriyaki BukkakeJun 10, 20181 votes

Buffing minions is a good idea, maybe not to the 70% damage reduction degree but none the less I would describe it as how you have. If you build a team that can only deal damage through attack damage items, then armor isn't broken, you just picked a bad team. Same thing applies to banner: pre-fix banner was hard on mages but was useless against AD's, and so it had a purpose, and did it's job to what was required of it. The stats were all wrong I will say that.

It being a toxic or overpowered item is pretty far fetched. It needs tweaking, sure, and I'm for that, but the removal from the game? That's just wrong.

Cait MainJun 10, 20181 votes

Riot used the argument that it was either overpowered or never bought even though during season 5 it was a strong buy on utility supports like karma and soraka.

They used the same argument for why they removed sword of the occult.

This still doesn't explain why an item that is literally never bought by any champion is still in the game when it hasn't been changed since season 5. It seems to be an item that is harder to balance then banner if its never bought and they haven't touched it in 3 years.

ReshiKillimJun 9, 201814 votes

Ohmwrecker isn't ever going to be removed, as it's an item that was created as a reward for a player back in the ancient days of league. Banner of Command is basically a removed summoner spell returned as an item.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 10, 20182 votes

Meddler did say that they might rework or remove it. I think the time where they felt obligated to keep that particular item in the game has past. They seem to be taking their time, but I don't think it's never going to be removed.

Yets4240Jun 10, 20183 votes

Given that they ripped that dude off for the champion designs for multiple of the original 40 characters from LoL as well as other ideas, they had fucking well better keep the item in the goddamn game. Never mind that what he was actually supposed to be given was the ability to help design a champion, rather than have an item named after him. Or the fact that the item itself never lived up to nor fulfilled the role and fantasy RIOT was asked to design for him in place of the reward he had actually earned.

BlakiepugJun 9, 201811 votes

Basically Riot buffed it out of the blue, it became a really good item, they gave up on it and decided it would be easiest to just remove it from the game.

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 10, 20186 votes

Look I got no fucking clue how Ohmwrecker exists.

The fucking game will be shut down and the first item Riot puts in LoL2 will be Ohmwrecker.

The DeckownerJun 11, 20181 votes

Aren't we already playing LOL 2, or ecen 3, maybe 4? like this game is nothing similar to what it was in seasons 1~4.

TusutakiJun 10, 20186 votes

Banner is being taken out because it forces people to utilize a thing called map pressure and lane control. People dont like to think, they just want to bash their heads against the enemy over and over again. Perhaps if they didnt make mages almost useless or maybe just maybe, didnt keep nerfing towers then this whole Banner problem wouldnt be considered as the buzzword "toxic".

But does Riot want to actually balance it? No, they would just rather take it away rather than keep tweaking it. Meanwhile Zzrot and Ohm is still around doing a whole lot of nothing. Nah lets take out Zephyr instead. Remember that little cool item? Sure back then it didnt see a lot of use but a lot of things changed so whats preventing them from even attempting to bring it back? Its not like they have thousands of players willing to beta test it for them but that implies they actually listen. Remember when people were screaming to not release insta kill Galio?

ModWulf HelhammerJun 9, 20185 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/2tsZxqEF-quick-gameplay-thoughts-june-8?comment=00050000

AzadetheJun 9, 20184 votes

It's toxic whereas Ohm is just a placeholder that is never used.

ie they can't build it right without being disruptive to play compositions.

iamthegoatofwarJun 10, 20184 votes

I'd like it if old banner stayed on aram...I'm getting a reminder of why warmogs and banner were considered the norm vs mages there in the 1st place...

Neptunia xoxoJun 9, 20183 votes

Banner was something that should never have been brought into the game and even items like Zz'rot shouldn't of been either lol it's either never used or it's so stupid it's used every single game. Having 1 item push out a lane for you while giving you gold ect is stupid in general.

Coo1breezeJun 10, 20183 votes

Make all your teammates get item 3060 -> Make them all use it on creeps in an unattended wave

Now watch those 5 upgraded bastards push the hell out of a lane while you and your team are contesting dragon from the enemy.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Automated RivenJun 10, 20184 votes

Watch you lose because your team had no useful stats.

Pika FoxJun 10, 20183 votes

Heres the secret: If you want ohmwrecker fixed you gotta find a way to abuse it on udyr constantly. It will be patched in a week.

Madsin25Jun 9, 20182 votes

It's funny really.

They nerf towers into legit dollar store toilet paper and than refuse to actually have a worthwhile item that can protect them.

Late Game KayleJun 9, 20182 votes

Because Ohmwrecker's name is from refer a friend, therefore it can't be removed, they would just heavily rework it instead. Banner of Command isn't like this so they can remove it as they please.

VoraciousXJun 10, 20182 votes

They're really taking out Banner? Won't that be a significant win rate drop on Yorick?

Wert the WackyJun 9, 20181 votes

Yorick :Quiet you

YumaS2AstralJun 10, 20181 votes

Ohmwrecker should be reworked into an assassin/diver item, to be honest. its active helps with tower diving, which screams "assassin" but the stats are attractive for tanks, not assassins.

Bob the ToastrJun 10, 20181 votes

Ohmwrecker was created as a reward when a player got an extremely high number of invites to League IIRC, so they can't remove it. However, I have no idea why they haven't reworked it.

MarothennanJun 10, 20181 votes

Nobody builds Ohmwrecker so it doesn't hurt anyone. There's no point in keeping it and no point in removing it. On the other hand banner is horrible to play against when strong and just about as useless as Ohmwrecker when weak