This Scuttle change is terrible and makes jungling even more frustrating

Yenn··3 votes·1,235 views

In most games, each jungles takes one of the starting scuttles. Your knowledge of how the enemy jungle started allows you to take the one they aren't going to contest. This keeps EXP and gold relatively even until level 3.

For example, a level 2 ganking jungle on bottom side will go red -> level 2 gank -> scuttle, because you can't contest it while they have red buff. If they don't level 2 gank, you can take that scuttle for free before going to your top side. If they do gank, you know you can't contest the scuttle and just continue straight to the top side one.

Now, in the vast majority of games, the top side scuttle is going to be fought over. This would be fine, but which side wins the fight is still 100% decided by champion picks, even more so now that the solo lanes are level 3. Losing the fight puts you at a major disadvantage, because the opponent will also get the bottom side scuttle for free afterwards.

You can just concede the top scuttle if you know you won't win the fight and go towards bottom, but that still puts you at a disadvantage, because the enemy champion now knows you won't be able to counter a gank on top lane, which is far easier to pull of and more impactful than attempting a gank on bottom lane.

Additionally, your path is now completely predictable if the opponent knows where you started. If I started red and my opponent started blue, I know with almost absolute certainty when they will be at their red, and am free to invade them with my buff advantage instead of doing my blue. Prior to this change, taking scuttles added enough variance to make this unreliable.

This change is all around terrible. If anything, it just increased the frustration of scuttle fights and further increases the jungler's reliance on their solo lanes to succeed.

5 Comments

Düff McWhalen4 votes

I just want old jungle back where I can power farm, gank, or counter jungle equally....

True Garen4 votes

It seems like, the scuttler changes were implemented with the stated purpose of having scuttlers be more of a "mini-objective". And having achieved that stated goal, it was discovered to have been an undesirable outcome after all...

Ambitious Minnow3 votes

I just logged in to play a game today and caught this by surprise. Easily the most frustrating change yet! For pretty much the reasons stated in original post, this is horrid, and especially when jg xp already super weak.

Every time I have any kind of option in this game, Riot smashes it down to make everyone do the same boring meta things, so they can keep just the right champs overtuned to sell sell skins. It's beyond galling to have the game and champs change ridiculously patch after patch. Read the patch notes, they are always talking about 'what they want' instead of what is broken. The two aren't even close to the same, and it's more obvious every patch. I don't know why Riot thinks I'm more likely to start playing the game more or spending money on it when it's different game every month. Who ever wanted a game when the rules and stats are constantly changing? Surely not the majority of any general player base?

Riot, who even asked for this???? Please do something to appease those of us who are tired of being ignore EVERY SINGLE PATCH and just admit fault and hit revert button cleanly. One time.

AIQ1 votes

This change nerfs the most dominate root that "duelist" like reksai and J4 could abuse. On purple side it's the strongest root possible. Blue>Gromp>scuttle > Transistion gank (steal 2 cs of xp to get level 3) > Scuttle

If the enemy jungler decided to contest for the second, he'd be vs a level 3 duelist as level 2. This made these junglers HIGHLY oppressive.

Additionally if the enemy did a red/krug clear it was possible to catch them on their blue buff and take it and get level 4 after one more camp, ending the enemy junglers game most of the time if your laners played safe.

I don't know for sure, but being able to reach level 3/4 before having to duel seems much much more fair. This also nerfs early ganking as a failed gank can reveal your location and the enemy jungler can attempt to go to that scuttle with a XP advantage.

Yenn3 votes

{quoted}

This change nerfs the most dominate root that "duelist" like reksai and J4 could abuse. On purple side it's the strongest root possible. Blue>Gromp>scuttle > Transistion gank (steal 2 cs of xp to get level 3) > Scuttle

If the enemy jungler decided to contest for the second, he'd be vs a level 3 duelist as level 2. This made these junglers HIGHLY oppressive.

Additionally if the enemy did a red/krug clear it was possible to catch them on their blue buff and take it and get level 4 after one more camp, ending the enemy junglers game most of the time if your laners played safe.

I don't know for sure, but being able to reach level 3/4 before having to duel seems much much more fair. This also nerfs early ganking as a failed gank can reveal your location and the enemy jungler can attempt to go to that scuttle with a XP advantage.

The pushed back time only really gives you enough time to do both buffs + gromp before the scuttle spawns. You'll be level 3 when the scuttle spawns, and even if it were longer, many junglers can't do raptors or krugs early without taking significant damage.

I disagree, both Rek'sai and Jarvan with blue straight up lose a duel against any opponent who has red while they only have blue, especially after having taken damage from gromp and not having a level advantage for it. If the bottom side opted for a level 2 gank to scuttle, they have to concede it.

If you're not playing a champion who can level 2 gank, you just go straight from your red to top side and take the scuttle while the opponent is still on the bottom side.

You can usually tell where the opponent started in 9/10 games, and if you expect them to invade your blue, just take their blue instead. This change is mostly a problem when both sides start with a leash from their bottom lane.

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