Concerned with poppys ult

Rozair·Nov 25, 2015·4 votes·1,387 views

Does it always knock them in the direction of their base? That's what the tool tip says

30 Comments

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20153 votes

It's the worst. It makes no sense. If you want to fight someone, it's a useless ult now.

Unho1y IntentNov 25, 20151 votes

Not entirely true. Imagine you're beating your lane opponent so they are playing safe. Suddenly the fed enemy jungler comes in, causing your lane opponent to step up. You ult the jungler away and proceed to kill your lane opponent who is now over-committed. Sure it isn't a huge damage nuke, but the potential is certainly there. Especially when you think of the other possibilities of the ult. Peeling one or more enemies off your carry for example, or simply removing their 13-1 Jinx from the fight, allowing your team to out-damage the enemy team.

SpecterVonBarenNov 25, 20152 votes

If you take Poppy bot as a support though...

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If you take Poppy bot as a support though...

Right now, I'm seeing Poppy support as the ONLY viable option. knocking back an invading jungler or making it a 2v1 would be awesome. But as a top/jung main myself, I was kind of hoping for love for her in those lanes. :(

SpecterVonBarenNov 25, 20152 votes

Yeah, I don't understand why all of her scalings are with bonus AD (Her W scaling is like Wu's W scaling, just there so AP isn't completely wasted), it makes it so she can't scale at all into late game, damage wise, if she falls behind. And all of her damage except for her W is physical damage too so she's easily countered with armor if she gets ahead.

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I don't understand why all of her scalings are with bonus AD (Her W scaling is like Wu's W scaling, just there so AP isn't completely wasted), it makes it so she can't scale at all into late game, damage wise, if she falls behind.

That is why I am starting to think Poppy is going to be God Tier Support. Here is why:

You won't need damage late game.
Q has a slow with some minor damage
W can block annoying dashes (i.e. Lucian, OP Graves, probably kalista passive)
E can be not only a disengage to save your adc, but an awesome ENGAGE is you land it against a wall.
R can make a fight instantly a 2v1 and turn the tides in your favor

The more I think about it. I HATE the ult, but this poppy kit is set up to be an INSANE support. Full tank with all that CC and engage/disengage....

SpecterVonBarenNov 25, 20151 votes

Mhm, and she also has that W passive to give her more MR and armor as well as doubling that bonus when she's below 40% health. It's probably why I'm so much more excited about this rework than the Poppy mains since I'm a support main.

Zone of EndlessNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That is why I am starting to think Poppy is going to be God Tier Support. Here is why:

You won't need damage late game.

Q has a slow with some minor damage

W can block annoying dashes (i.e. Lucian, OP Graves, probably kalista passive)

E can be not only a disengage to save your adc, but an awesome ENGAGE is you land it against a wall.

R can make a fight instantly a 2v1 and turn the tides in your favor

The more I think about it. I HATE the ult, but this poppy kit is set up to be an INSANE support. Full tank with all that CC and engage/disengage....

I don't really see her as a good support. She has no real engage aside from her E which is the same as saying Vayne can be a good support because of that.

Her Q range is really short.

W block dashes but most of the time ADC doesn't really use their dash to gap close. They are usually in range for AA in the first place.

R is only good disengage tool. Can be good against gank and things like you mention but other than that meh. Won't really help you get kills.

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't really see her as a good support. She has no real engage aside from her E which is the same as saying Vayne can be a good support because of that.

Her Q range is really short.

W block dashes but most of the time ADC doesn't really use their dash to gap close. They are usually in range for AA in the first place.

R is only good disengage tool. Can be good against gank and things like you mention but other than that meh. Won't really help you get kills.

So the Top 3 Popular current supports now in ranked are:

Thresh (1 engage. yeah, if you can get close enough the flay backwards can be too, but poppy can Q just as easily or double tap R for a knockup)
Blitz (1 engage. again, he has the knockup, but so does poppy along with a long stun if she lands it.)
Leona (2 engages if you count the ult. The rest is defensive and a small stun.)

Poppy has the Q slow, a dash stopper (stop lucian, graves, kalista from getting away), and insane E stun, and a quick knockup or the biggest disengage this game has so far.

Just think she has more to offer the game for early to mid game as support than she does in a solo lane or jung in her current state.

Zone of EndlessNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So the Top 3 Popular current supports now in ranked are:

Thresh (1 engage. yeah, if you can get close enough the flay backwards can be too, but poppy can Q just as easily or double tap R for a knockup)

Blitz (1 engage. again, he has the knockup, but so does poppy along with a long stun if she lands it.)

Leona (2 engages if you count the ult. The rest is defensive and a small stun.)

Poppy has the Q slow, a dash stopper (stop lucian, graves, kalista from getting away), and insane E stun, and a quick knockup or the biggest disengage this game has so far.

Just think she has more to offer the game for early to mid game as support than she does in a solo lane or jung in her current state.

those champ you mention can do that very easily and safely at level 2. Poppy can't do that safely and as easily pre-6.

Thresh can choose to engage or not to. He doesn't have to jump in. His Q is a stun that slowly pulls you towards him.

Blitz either misses hook or not.

Leona can cast E at a safe range. Her stun is definitely not small when combined with the snare from E.

All those things have one thing in common is that they have the range to safely engage.

Poppy on the other hand put herself in danger when she use her E to engage. Not to mention the Q is still very short range. She also can't disengage if things go bad like Thresh or even Blitz. Once she commit with her E in a fight she's committed. Can't escape unless she has a flash.

And all this from pre-6 where it's most important in bot lane.

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

those champ you mention can do that very easily and safely at level 2. Poppy can't do that safely and as easily pre-6.

Thresh can choose to engage or not to. He doesn't have to jump in. His Q is a stun that slowly pulls you towards him.

Blitz either misses hook or not.

Leona can cast E at a safe range. Her stun is definitely not small when combined with the snare from E.

All those things have one thing in common is that they have the range to safely engage.

Poppy on the other hand put herself in danger when she use her E to engage. Not to mention the Q is still very short range. She also can't disengage if things go bad like Thresh or even Blitz. Once she commit with her E in a fight she's committed. Can't escape unless she has a flash.

And all this from pre-6 where it's most important in bot lane.

her E is probably one of the strongest disengages in the game. if she lands the stun, even more. follow it up with a Q and run away with W active, easy peasy. No harder than naut.

Zone of EndlessNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

her E is probably one of the strongest disengages in the game. if she lands the stun, even more. follow it up with a Q and run away with W active, easy peasy. No harder than naut.

Strongest disengage? I wouldn't say it's the strongest disengage even if you land the stun. Like I said, Vayne E does the same but at a range. So depend on the circumstances if you use your E to disengage then you will die most of the time. You follow through when you use E so if you use it bot lane during a gank or something you just delivered yourself to the enemy.

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Strongest disengage? I wouldn't say it's the strongest disengage even if you land the stun. Like I said, Vayne E does the same but at a range. So depend on the circumstances if you use your E to disengage then you will die most of the time. You follow through when you use E so if you use it bot lane during a gank or something you just delivered yourself to the enemy.

Ok, aside from comparing her to obvious "Support" designed champs, I still think Poppys kit (in it's current state) provides WAY more benefit in bot lane vs any other lane.

Top/Mid lane Poppy:

Q nice for harrass W ok...thats if you happen to be going vs a champ with a dash. E is nice if you have items and want to commit. a little nicer if you can land the stun and follow with a Q. R usless unless you don't have map awareness or feel you need to burn the tower to get like 4 or 5 extra hits on the tower.

Jungle poppy:

Q nice for the slow after you E W nice for ganking mainly bot lane, but could prove effective if you plan on ganking like renek/Shen/work on ahri ult dashes? E obviously nice...especially coming in from river. again, you have to hope it isn't warded or they are dumb...but nice anyway. R useless other than for trying to save your lane from a gank or again, trying to take a tower early.

Bot lane Poppy:

Q nice for obvious slow and some harrass W nice for the many dashes that are on adc champs E obviously nice for either disengage or engage. Land that stun and if your adc is not a scrub, SHOULD be a kill R probably one of the most effective Support-like ults next to braums or annie's. If not even better because you can kill the other person, or disengage, or take a tower, or steal drag...lol.

I just think that in the first 20 minutes of the game, Poppy's ult is WAY more useful in bot lane than any other lane. Post 20 mins, that ult will be nice in team fights in mainly mid usually, but then again, in a team fight..the support should be there anyway.

Zone of EndlessNov 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok, aside from comparing her to obvious "Support" designed champs, I still think Poppys kit (in it's current state) provides WAY more benefit in bot lane vs any other lane.

Top/Mid lane Poppy:

Q nice for harrass W ok...thats if you happen to be going vs a champ with a dash. E is nice if you have items and want to commit. a little nicer if you can land the stun and follow with a Q. R usless unless you don't have map awareness or feel you need to burn the tower to get like 4 or 5 extra hits on the tower.

Jungle poppy:

Q nice for the slow after you E W nice for ganking mainly bot lane, but could prove effective if you plan on ganking like renek/Shen/work on ahri ult dashes? E obviously nice...especially coming in from river. again, you have to hope it isn't warded or they are dumb...but nice anyway. R useless other than for trying to save your lane from a gank or again, trying to take a tower early.

Bot lane Poppy:

Q nice for obvious slow and some harrass W nice for the many dashes that are on adc champs E obviously nice for either disengage or engage. Land that stun and if your adc is not a scrub, SHOULD be a kill R probably one of the most effective Support-like ults next to braums or annie's. If not even better because you can kill the other person, or disengage, or take a tower, or steal drag...lol.

I just think that in the first 20 minutes of the game, Poppy's ult is WAY more useful in bot lane than any other lane. Post 20 mins, that ult will be nice in team fights in mainly mid usually, but then again, in a team fight..the support should be there anyway.

Her Q is extremely short range in the bot lane. No one in their right mind is just gonna stand still and get hit. Support down there also has disengage tool.

If they dash into her sure but rarely will that happen. Usually when you're gonna engage you'd be in range for AA and save that gap closer for either running to committing harder.

IF you can land that stun bot lane. Poppy's E is exactly the same as Vayne's E and it is ranged. So if you gonna try and engage with poppy's E might as well do it with vayne. Disengage? hell no. When you use E you follow through with the person you're pushing so you just essentially delivered yourself to the enemy team.

R is good for her "support" i guess but why not just alistar who can do something similar with just basic abilities instead of an ult.

RisenDarkKnightNov 25, 20151 votes

R can help you get kills as it can work like alistar q. It's also amazing in late game teamfights as you can knock 2 or 3 people really far away giving you a temporary 5 v 3 or 5 v 2. W is great for stopping assasins with lots of dashes like Akali, Diana, etc. She does lack engage, but I don't think she'd be bad as support.

Zone of EndlessNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

R can help you get kills as it can work like alistar q. It's also amazing in late game teamfights as you can knock 2 or 3 people really far away giving you a temporary 5 v 3 or 5 v 2. W is great for stopping assasins with lots of dashes like Akali, Diana, etc. She does lack engage, but I don't think she'd be bad as support.

ehhhh

maybe as a very niche pick.

But you mention her R can work like ali's Q. Why would you compare an ulti to another champ's basic ability? If alistar basic ability can do what poppy ult does then there's no reason to pick poppy.

She would be amazing in team fights with her ult if used right so I agree.

It can stop dashes but why pick a support just to stop dashes when you can pick braum that block damage even better with ton of CC. Thresh can also stop dashes as well as Ali and their abilities are on a fairly short cooldown. They also have way more engages and utility and CC than poppy.

idk. i just really can't see poppy being a decent support

Sightless66Nov 25, 20151 votes

I've played against this 2 times now on the PBE. It's.... really actually kind of bad as a support. She suffers a lot laning against two people, particularly since her only methods of pressuing her enemies are pretty telegraphed and easily to play around with a bit of CC from the support. The Q range is just too short to be threatening, it won't work out if the enemies just walk away from you when you use it, and you get poked down way too hard if you try to use it because you'll get poked down before you can grab the buckler from the ground. Her engage potential is also mediocre at best, given how easy it is to see the dash coming, and her roaming ganks aren't comparable to other tanks because that is really her only engage skill. Even using the R to make a fight into a 2v1 isn't that amazing because her follow-up just isn't good enough.

On top of that, your peeling also isn't as good as you'd think. The Q slow isn't enough to peel, and the W can be pretty easily played around by divers. It works much better as an offensive tool than as a defensive one.

It's the kind of kit that would work as a support if you didn't have to lane and you didn't have to worry about not having enough gold to be really tanky, but you could say that about a lot of tanks and it doesn't make them actually good supports. I'd be comfortable playing almost any CC tank as a support if I didn't have to lane. They're still bad support though.

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I've played against this 2 times now on the PBE. It's.... really actually kind of bad as a support. She suffers a lot laning against two people, particularly since her only methods of pressuing her enemies are pretty telegraphed and easily to play around with a bit of CC from the support. The Q range is just too short to be threatening, it won't work out if the enemies just walk away from you when you use it, and you get poked down way too hard if you try to use it because you'll get poked down before you can grab the buckler from the ground. Her engage potential is also mediocre at best, given how easy it is to see the dash coming, and her roaming ganks aren't comparable to other tanks because that is really her only engage skill. Even using the R to make a fight into a 2v1 isn't that amazing because her follow-up just isn't good enough.

On top of that, your peeling also isn't as good as you'd think. The Q slow isn't enough to peel, and the W can be pretty easily played around by divers. It works much better as an offensive tool than as a defensive one.

It's the kind of kit that would work as a support if you didn't have to lane and you didn't have to worry about not having enough gold to be really tanky, but you could say that about a lot of tanks and it doesn't make them actually good supports. I'd be comfortable playing almost any CC tank as a support if I didn't have to lane. They're still bad support though.

I played twice last night as support Poppy and it was ridiculous.

I stood in the bush and just last hit for the money for both of us.
I Q'd and landed about 50-75% of them. not a ton of damage..but enough and the slow helped.
we didn't go against any "dashers" in lane, so my W active wasn't helpful, but that passive bonus MR and armor and DOUBLED when below 40% was OP.
I was able to land a couple E's for an engage. was super fun. felt like Old poppy. I did die on one of the engages, but my adc got a double...so worth. Otherwise I was using E's to push away their support or jung trying to engage on us.
and then the ULT. rofl. I sent that adc sailing about 3 or 4 times. SOOO fun. especially seeing the /all chat say, "WTF, omg that distance is OP". I send that MF the first game and the ashe the second game flying every time and we would just jump on the support, kill, and get 3-4 uncontested shots in on the tower. was able to land an ult on the jax jung one game too. he was priming his E to jump in and stun, and BLAM, he went sailing. lol

Sightless66Nov 25, 20152 votes

I stood in the bush and just last hit for the money for both of u

If you're getting away with that I'm probably going to ascribe it to the PBE players being bad. One of the Poppy's I played against did this too. I hurt her carry every time she did it. She couldn't stop me, in large part because the Q wasn't enough to trade back without the second hit and she couldn't get an E off without taking more damage than she could possibly do to us. Avoiding the E stun wasn't hard either. It's like playing against Vayne, except that Vayne could at least have a support set up the stun or could tumble into position for a good stun.

I send that MF the first game and the ashe the second game flying every time and we would just jump on the support, kill, and get 3-4 uncontested shots in on the tower.

That almost happened to me once, but I walked away and was completely ok. I'm not even exaggerating. It was actually that easy. Force her to knock away the guy in front with positioning, the guy in the back walks away. Her follow-up isn't good enough to reliably create kills off of it.

Of course, it didn't help that she was losing terribly by that point because her pre-6 is just godawful against ranged supports.

I'm not really not sold on it. From my experience, I'd put it on the same tier as Ashe support or Sion support or Amumu support. Technically possible, will work mainly if people don't understand how to play against it, not actually good. I really think that once people get a better understanding of how to play against her, any potential she has as a support will just dry up.

qetzelNov 25, 20152 votes

Try a doubletap. Apparently that just knocks them up, leaving them easy to hit with your hammer.

J EevoNov 25, 20152 votes

Always knocks them towards their own base (as in, to safety) and makes them untargetable during the flight so you can't damage or cc them when they fly to stop them

ModWulf HelhammerNov 25, 20151 votes

Yes, it does.

RozairNov 25, 20151 votes

Can poppy stop them with her w?

RisenDarkKnightNov 25, 20151 votes

No, the w only stops enemy dashes, not anything your team does (i.e. it doesn't stop your tristana from ulting someone away).

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20151 votes

The problem with all this is that with all the MS stuff in the game and masteries and stuff, the enemy get get back really quick. And imagine the enemy team has a thresh.....that thresh can throw back a lantern and you then was able to save yourself MAYBE two seconds of that jungler being there. Not worth.

Honestly, the ONLY situation where I see this being extremely helpful, is if you are playing Poppy jungle and you happen to be in mid lane with a wave and you can punt the enemy back and take the tower. that is about it....

RisenDarkKnightNov 25, 20154 votes

It's actually really useful in a lot of situations. Since it knocks them back so far, you often have 3.5-4 seconds or so for a fully charged ult before they get back. That is a long time for a temporary numbers advantage. You can knock back the enemy back line so your team can shred their tanks, or knock away their front line to dive their carries.

You can also not charge the q and you get an Alistar q if you want to knock up 1 or 2 targets. It's also great for escaping/avoiding ganks Finally, it's easy to turn around a countergank (knock away one of them, you have a 2 v 1 especially if you knock them over a wall).

P.S. poppies w cancels thresh's lantern.

OmManiPadmeHumNov 25, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It's actually really useful in a lot of situations. Since it knocks them back so far, you often have 3.5-4 seconds or so for a fully charged ult before they get back. That is a long time for a temporary numbers advantage. You can knock back the enemy back line so your team can shred their tanks, or knock away their front line to dive their carries.

You can also not charge the q and you get an Alistar q if you want to knock up 1 or 2 targets. It's also great for escaping/avoiding ganks Finally, it's easy to turn around a countergank (knock away one of them, you have a 2 v 1 especially if you knock them over a wall).

P.S. poppies w cancels thresh's lantern.

even more of a reason to make her a support. lol

CaythelesNov 25, 20151 votes

But the Zoning potential!

RisenDarkKnightNov 25, 20151 votes

Yes, but if you cast it without charging it up, it's just an alistar q. So you dont' always have to knock them away. But if you do charge it up and hit them they will go towards their base (quite far) regardless of what direction you hit them from.