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@Riot, when will you finally pin the official Cass thread?

Canastus··44 votes·3,376 views

It's been a good week since Stashu created his most recent thread about the Cass rework and so far the replies from her playerbase were quite numerous. And still, we haven't seen a red response so far. Not a single concern or issue addressed by your dear collegue, no matter how many of us cry out.

Please don't repeat the same mistake you made before by simply creating a thread and then abandoning it for good. This is not how you should handle a rework which has struck a very sensitive nerve in the community. How come other reworks get their thread pinned whereas Cassiopeia gets nothing? Don't you think we deserve a stable platform to discuss our feedback on, even if most of it is clearly against your idea of handling this rework?

To make it short, we're tired of being treated like second class citizens. Stashu literally admitted that he rushed these changes due to time pressure from the Shurima event and now we're stuck with an incredibly unreliable 'hypercarry' who rarely ever gets to the lategame, and even if she does, it's anything but FUN for the player. You literally took what made Cassiopeia such a joy to play as and turned her into a dull farming simulator without lane presence. You warped her identity as a champion beyond recognition.

Anyway, I'm sure Stashu's thread would make a far better place to discuss this matter on but first of all we NEED to see his thread pinned. And please tell Stashu to come back, there's no point in discussing those changes without him.

43 Comments

Kowe The Ewok22 votes

Not only a thread pinned but also a reponse. His "recent" statement explained his way of thinking but addressed basically none of the community's main concerns. It felt like he didn't even bother reading anything past the first page, if at all.

He posted obviously flawed statements with significant influence on actual balance. I'll rephrase what concerned me the most: Stashu compared DoT to burst and stated that the 0.8 scaling on Cassiopeias Q was not only as bad, but even worse than it was on a nuke. He completel ignored the facts that DoTs don't stack but reapply. Meaning that a 3s DoT with 3s duration DOES NOT gain a DPS increase from cooldown reduction, which leads to 40% higher DPS for a burst skill wirh similiar numbers. This is without considering thaz DoTed targets do get an additional 3 timeframe to heal/ shield themselves or kill you as well.

If he keeps reworking Cassiopeia without realizing these mechanics the rework will continously be doomed to fail.

Thryale9 votes

Not to mention that dot's have so much more gameplay to them than burst spells. If I'm playing veigar, then you know that once you reach a certain hp lvl to stay faaaaaar away from me cuz I can simply delete you. Not to mention that if I harrass my opponent they get chunked, and when you get chunked it scares you. But if you don't get chunked, it just tickles, and you laugh as you crush veig in the face.

Now, with dot's even if the full dot did more dmg than a veig q, the dot isn't as scary. Thus you can use it more often, and whittle down your opponent more easily. They are deceptive, and that synergizes with cass's theme well because snakes connote deception. With proper play, the dot player can easily lure his lane opponent into a false sense of security, setting them up for a gank or a sudden burst from the rest of her kit. But at the same time, it's more dangerous for the dot player because you lack the safety of fear that burst mages have. If the opponent is low, the know you can't burst them down, so they have more opportunities to engage on you and kill you before your dmg can kill them. And that is the trade off.

By relegating cass to a ryze like gameplay pattern, you remove that interaction in lane and throughout the game. There is no whittling down the opponent, it's just a straight up "can I kill him now" mentality like all the other mages in the game. Sadly, cass doesn't get to enjoy the tankiness that ryze gets due to his mana scaling. So cass will never be able to out dps ryze because her short range and squishy build leaves her far too vulnerable.

questir15 votes

Well it's the sad reality and OP explained very well how we feel

we're tired of being treated like second class citizens

If Cassio had the same fanbase as Lee Sin, Riot would manage things differently with Cassi and put more resources into fixing her and you can't deny it

Auryiel6 votes

Well it's the sad reality and OP explained very well how we feel

we're tired of being treated like second class citizens

If Cassio had the same fanbase as Lee Sin, Riot would manage things differently with Cassi and put more resources into fixing her and you can't deny it

Proof : Lee Sin has been a top pick for several years and has yet to be seriously reworked. Remember the insane uproar when they explained what they wanted to do with him? Meanwhile Cass gets a 2 day PBE cycle...

Canastus2 votes

The injustice is all too real.

Long Dong Wukong9 votes

When they admit she looks like Wukong now and that the new Wukong art looks like the Jumanji boy. At least I have a skin for Wu so I never have to see that splash art.

Cassiopeia MonkeyKing

Thoroniul2 votes

When they admit she looks like Wukong now and that the new Wukong art looks like the Jumanji boy. At least I have a skin for Wu so I never have to see that splash art.

Cassiopeia MonkeyKing

Its kind of like how sivir, and zyra's icons look like nigel thornberry.

Sivir Zyra http://i.imgur.com/Uu26P.jpg

Tapu Fini7 votes

They won't pin Stashu's negligence.

I know it may feel like we've abandoned or forgotten about Cassiopeia to some degree, but I promise you it's something I think about every day.

Then why aren't you on the forums, discussing the ways people want Cassiopeia taken, what feels the best and worst on her new kit, and how you can fix it? Why aren't you discussing the misconceptions you have about what a DoT mage is? Why are you letting our concerns go unheard?

Someone else needs to be in charge of Cassiopeia. Clearly Stashu was not and will be prepared to handle this rework.

xJLx MCHammer6 votes

Riot had decided to give cass a rework. That's that! When the rework went through, you had a small portion of players who didn't want to discuss how to make the rework better, only curse at riot who reworking her. They ruined any chance at a good discussion.

Now riot continue to ignore cass. They reworked her and now left to roy with a lower win rate than before the rework.

Starlighte7 votes

Riot had decided to give cass a rework. That's that! When the rework went through, you had a small portion of players who didn't want to discuss how to make the rework better, only curse at riot who reworking her. They ruined any chance at a good discussion.

Now riot continue to ignore cass. They reworked her and now left to roy with a lower win rate than before the rework.

You obviously didn't see how short Cass's brewing period was on PBE. I can assure you that there has NEVER been a drastic rework with that little time on PBE ever before. To suggest that the community is to blame for Cass's current state is not only indicative of your desire to suck off Riot, but suggestive of how ignorant you are on this particular rework. Kindly see yourself to the door.

Thryale3 votes

Well, there's always the karma rework... but that -was- before the pbe was used as extensively as it is now. But yeah, I'd say cass's rework is up there with karma's for how badly riot is handling it.

(do note, that the current karma is not in a bad spot, but riot still handled the rework rather terribly nonetheless)

xJLx MCHammer4 votes

Riot had decided to give cass a rework. That's that! When the rework went through, you had a small portion of players who didn't want to discuss how to make the rework better, only curse at riot who reworking her. They ruined any chance at a good discussion.

Now riot continue to ignore cass. They reworked her and now left to roy with a lower win rate than before the rework.

You obviously didn't see how short Cass's brewing period was on PBE. I can assure you that there has NEVER been a drastic rework with that little time on PBE ever before. To suggest that the community is to blame for Cass's current state is not only indicative of your desire to suck off Riot, but suggestive of how ignorant you are on this particular rework. Kindly see yourself to the door.

I'm not saying it's the community's fault, but certain players; those players that spammed the one thread that Stachu was visiting by constantly posting the same thing over and over again to the point that the thread ballooned to past 250 posts in less than a month. No, it's not because there is a lot of Cass player, she is picked less than 2% of games; it was because a small vocal players that play Cass. You don't believe me, look at the thread in old GD. First ~20 isn't too bad, but then it goes crazy. It got to the point that Stachu even said he wont be making anymore post in that thread and likely will make a new thread...geeee i wonder why

You see, Cass p layers got divided into groups. Those that wanted a rework and those that didn't. The ones that liked it were split into 2 groups as well; they felt it was good but under powered, and those that wanted a rework just not in that direction.

That's your problem!

Quepha4 votes

First ~20 isn't too bad, but then it goes crazy.

because there's nothing to discuss when the rioter isn't taking part in the dialogue. once people have stated their points, there's no point to restating them so they ask the rioter to respond, then talk about how the rioter hasn't responded.

no cass players wanted a rework, no cass players were expecting a rework. some were ok with it and almost all cass players wanted the QoL changes to make her feel less clunky, but the total change in direction for her character packaged with those necessary and very late changes was not appreciated at all.

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

First ~20 isn't too bad, but then it goes crazy.

because there's nothing to discuss when the rioter isn't taking part in the dialogue. once people have stated their points, there's no point to restating them so they ask the rioter to respond, then talk about how the rioter hasn't responded.

no cass players wanted a rework, no cass players were expecting a rework. some were ok with it and almost all cass players wanted the QoL changes to make her feel less clunky, but the total change in direction for her character packaged with those necessary and very late changes was not appreciated at all.

This is the problem

WHERE DO YOU GET SAYING NO CASS PLAYER WANTED A REWORK? WHERE PLEASE

See, I played Cass over 1,000 games across 2 accounts. I stopped playing her in S3 because of the fact that outplaying your opponent meant nothing in terms of rewards. I wanted a rework! Her passive was useless; just like Liss' passive, it's useless. Lower her mana costs and give her a real passive, not that garbage passive that promoted what Riot considers bullying in lane.

Yes, my vision of a rework included the many QoL like hitbox on ult, e detection..etc buffs this rework had, but I alwasy visioned cass to have -Build in spell vamp -Build in Mana Regen from E

I don't agree with the gated hyper carry passive that she has. It's garbage, in fact, worse than it was. I

Long Dong Wukong5 votes

I can only hope that people that wanted a rework enjoying your abomination that is nothing more than the same character but worse.

Enjoy that shit, LOL.

Long Dong Wukong6 votes

No, this is some common misconception bullshit that gets thrown in at every shitty rework.

It's usually like 80 pages of people making suggestions and begging for them to change aspects of the rework that are bad, and then they end up releasing it, and it's shitty and broken, and then Riot drops all communication and it becomes clear that they have no intention of actually fixing the abomination that they've created, and people get pissed off.

That's how it happens, not the other way around.

See : Skarner

They may end up doing a mild re-rework on Cass that makes her playable for a week, and then nerf her back into never-pick status.

See : Skarner

Auryiel6 votes

Stashu's last thread is just worrying. Pretty sure the next changes are gonna be cringeworthy. I can't say that I'm eager to see any more changes, but at the same time I don't want her to remain in this state :\

Quepha6 votes

let's all break out the party favors for Cass's 1 week anniversary since the last time anyone has heard from riot about their position on her direct-to-live-servers rework! Her win rate is now much closer to 50% than the rework's release state when it was literally unplayable, so perhaps riot thinks players will shut up about it if they keep ignoring cass and her fans. that could mean this will be the first of many weeks of riot ignoring their glaring mistakes in relation to the snake lady.

sure, her pickrate has dropped to the 4th lowest in the game, her winrate is still lower than pre rework, people hate the changes in general and especially what they mean to cassiopeia, but she isn't literally unplayable anymore and riot has assured you that you don't like DoT spells (or that you can play brand or zyra for those instead) so you should be thankful that riot knows what's best (except when they literally released cassiopeia with a champion-breaking bug that had already been reported and brought to their attention, but they had to hit that shurima deadline!)

who brought the drinks?

Canastus6 votes

This is not acceptable. We will continue posting about the rework until we finally get what we deserve. Not a single week shall pass without a dedicated Cass thread popping up on the frontpage.

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

Welcome to Skarner life guys. You'll get your buff, and then they'll fuck her back into a 0.5% pick rate after being playable for a week.

Enjoy it

Electric Grandma5 votes

I love how they don't pin the Cass thread but fking pin a how to cs thread. I have nothing against the cs thread (I've bookmarked it for later reading), but this is unacceptable. It shows how worthless Cass is to Riot if they're gonna pin almost everything else than Cass's discussion thread. So angry and annoyed at this.

Rubber Jesus4 votes

Bump for Cass. Start bumping all her threads daily to take over board until we get a response...

Thryale3 votes

bumping doesn't work with the new forums anymore. It's all about the upvotes now. :(

yellowbricks5 votes

bumping doesn't work with the new forums anymore. It's all about the upvotes now. :(

And we've solved the mystery of why they herded us into this cruddy board, so they can easily ignore us. Lee Sin threads will get +1000000 and we'll be invisible with our +15 cass threads. This is why reddit is the worst site, it's all about who can circle jerk the hardest.

Veiled Sovereign4 votes

Even though most comments disagreed with what Stashu posted, they upvoted him for the sole reason that he actually POSTED something. We WANT to discuss it with riot. people are upset because they stopped responding and don't sticky the post and seemingly abandoned cass saying shes fine.

Long Dong Wukong2 votes

Skarner life

Quepha5 votes

Even though most comments disagreed with what Stashu posted, they upvoted him for the sole reason that he actually POSTED something. We WANT to discuss it with riot. people are upset because they stopped responding and don't sticky the post and seemingly abandoned cass saying shes fine.

it's more that people wanted the thread to stay on the front page of the "hot" view and they weren't sure if downvotes would help or hinder that goal.

Keptron NA4 votes

Worst is that as you said, he pretty much left again the thread to dust. Seriously, is it that hard for Riot to put more people working on that thread or on Cassiopeia in general?

Canastus3 votes

He rather spends his time playing Ranked or ARAM instead of talking to us. I'm not even sure how to describe his behavior anymore. Well, it certainly is anything but professional.

Hrud3 votes

Not a Cass player ever since they changed that one jungle item that gave spellvamp, but i'm feeling bad for you guys. Have a bump.

zwi3tracht3 votes

Yeah. In solo Ranked she is even more popular than Galio and nearly reaches the pickrate of Skarner and Poppy. And that for a recently reworked champ. What an awesome rework. /s I don't even care that much about her power i care about the playstyle which became totally bland and unexciting. Cass was so much fun and totally fine. I won't get it, why such a bad rework needs to be done and also so rushed. They should make a poll i am pretty sure a vast majority is very unhappy with this rework.

chumbler3 votes

Why would they pin reminders of the most fucking horrible rework they ever did when they want people to just forget, give up, and stop calling them out on this worthless shit made by an idiot and their absolutely abysmal handling of it?

There is no way they can "fix" this rework, because the whole thing is trash made by someone without a clue. The "fix" is throwing it in the garbage bin and bringing back pre-rework Cass. Of course Riot can never admit a mistake or that they're clueless, so that's never going to happen.

Canastus1 votes

We must keep fighting on, I refuse to let her die like this. I'll probably put up another thread like this one after 24 hours if nothing happens on the PBE. We need to raise awareness about this ongoing injustice and I won't rest until the matter has been settled.

Focusss2 votes

Cass is one of the few champs in the game i love to play, even post rework i play her because "i cant not play her" if that makes sense. It's sad because the reason she was so good at all points of the game was because she was arguably the hardest AP champ in the game to play. Now she is even harder to play because her early game and mid game are trash.

Cadfan2 votes

I'm kind of with xJLx MCHammer. I am really, really unhappy about the Desperada skin rework (they didn't even try to make the tail look similar to the original or to the splash art... I bought the skin for that tail and now it is gone...), and I'm semi-unhappy about the mechanical rework (I don't love it, but I'd give it a shot if I got my skin back... I played Cassi when she was the most hated champion in LoL because of that skin, so I'd give it the college try).

But that thread got so awful that I stopped participating. And the new one went bad pretty fast as well.

Riot isn't going to engage in a "conversation" where "conversation" means "we yell at Riot and they apologize a lot."

Kowe The Ewok5 votes

I'm kind of with xJLx MCHammer. I am really, really unhappy about the Desperada skin rework (they didn't even try to make the tail look similar to the original or to the splash art... I bought the skin for that tail and now it is gone...), and I'm semi-unhappy about the mechanical rework (I don't love it, but I'd give it a shot if I got my skin back... I played Cassi when she was the most hated champion in LoL because of that skin, so I'd give it the college try).

But that thread got so awful that I stopped participating. And the new one went bad pretty fast as well.

Riot isn't going to engage in a "conversation" where "conversation" means "we yell at Riot and they apologize a lot."

Actually the reason why Riot gets yelled at since they have been avoiding any topic based discussion. Being ignored makes people angry. Ruining something you like makes people angry. But what makes them even more angry is acting like you actually don't give a single damn. Especially if you several weeks later state your original point of view and go into 0 detail of the many valid concerns which have been listed. Maybe it's just me but I feel people have a right to be angry if somebody shows such a pure form of ignorance as a certain Riot employee did.

We dislike the rework, but what's even worse is the behaviour of the responsible person.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

I'm kind of with xJLx MCHammer. I am really, really unhappy about the Desperada skin rework (they didn't even try to make the tail look similar to the original or to the splash art... I bought the skin for that tail and now it is gone...), and I'm semi-unhappy about the mechanical rework (I don't love it, but I'd give it a shot if I got my skin back... I played Cassi when she was the most hated champion in LoL because of that skin, so I'd give it the college try).

But that thread got so awful that I stopped participating. And the new one went bad pretty fast as well.

Riot isn't going to engage in a "conversation" where "conversation" means "we yell at Riot and they apologize a lot."

Actually the reason why Riot gets yelled at since they have been avoiding any topic based discussion. Being ignored makes people angry. Ruining something you like makes people angry. But what makes them even more angry is acting like you actually don't give a single damn. Especially if you several weeks later state your original point of view and go into 0 detail of the many valid concerns which have been listed. Maybe it's just me but I feel people have a right to be angry if somebody shows such a pure form of ignorance as a certain Riot employee did.

We dislike the rework, but what's even worse is the behaviour of the responsible person.

Actually, Stachu was reading the first 40 pages, he even comment some stuff he read. Then ones it hits that 20+ page mark, where people say things like "Stachu go kill yourself", or "Stachu should get fired", that kind of draws a line between communication and responce.

Like I said, they definitely missed the mark on the rework. But the kind of feedback they got was atrocious.

Buzzkillington02 votes

I'm kind of with xJLx MCHammer. I am really, really unhappy about the Desperada skin rework (they didn't even try to make the tail look similar to the original or to the splash art... I bought the skin for that tail and now it is gone...), and I'm semi-unhappy about the mechanical rework (I don't love it, but I'd give it a shot if I got my skin back... I played Cassi when she was the most hated champion in LoL because of that skin, so I'd give it the college try).

But that thread got so awful that I stopped participating. And the new one went bad pretty fast as well.

Riot isn't going to engage in a "conversation" where "conversation" means "we yell at Riot and they apologize a lot."

Actually the reason why Riot gets yelled at since they have been avoiding any topic based discussion. Being ignored makes people angry. Ruining something you like makes people angry. But what makes them even more angry is acting like you actually don't give a single damn. Especially if you several weeks later state your original point of view and go into 0 detail of the many valid concerns which have been listed. Maybe it's just me but I feel people have a right to be angry if somebody shows such a pure form of ignorance as a certain Riot employee did.

We dislike the rework, but what's even worse is the behaviour of the responsible person.

Actually, Stachu was reading the first 40 pages, he even comment some stuff he read. Then ones it hits that 20+ page mark, where people say things like "Stachu go kill yourself", or "Stachu should get fired", that kind of draws a line between communication and responce.

Like I said, they definitely missed the mark on the rework. But the kind of feedback they got was atrocious.

And in those 40 pages, did he answer to any negative feedback?

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

I'm kind of with xJLx MCHammer. I am really, really unhappy about the Desperada skin rework (they didn't even try to make the tail look similar to the original or to the splash art... I bought the skin for that tail and now it is gone...), and I'm semi-unhappy about the mechanical rework (I don't love it, but I'd give it a shot if I got my skin back... I played Cassi when she was the most hated champion in LoL because of that skin, so I'd give it the college try).

But that thread got so awful that I stopped participating. And the new one went bad pretty fast as well.

Riot isn't going to engage in a "conversation" where "conversation" means "we yell at Riot and they apologize a lot."

Actually the reason why Riot gets yelled at since they have been avoiding any topic based discussion. Being ignored makes people angry. Ruining something you like makes people angry. But what makes them even more angry is acting like you actually don't give a single damn. Especially if you several weeks later state your original point of view and go into 0 detail of the many valid concerns which have been listed. Maybe it's just me but I feel people have a right to be angry if somebody shows such a pure form of ignorance as a certain Riot employee did.

We dislike the rework, but what's even worse is the behaviour of the responsible person.

Actually, Stachu was reading the first 40 pages, he even comment some stuff he read. Then ones it hits that 20+ page mark, where people say things like "Stachu go kill yourself", or "Stachu should get fired", that kind of draws a line between communication and responce.

Like I said, they definitely missed the mark on the rework. But the kind of feedback they got was atrocious.

And in those 40 pages, did he answer to any negative feedback?

He addressed the concerns about her in a a few sentences, yes/

Cadfan1 votes

And in those 40 pages, did he answer to any negative feedback?

Yes. But no one acknowledged him as having answered negative feedback because the answer was, "I understand your concern about X, here's why we did it" and not the self-flagellation everyone wanted.

Quepha3 votes

Yes. But no one acknowledged him as having answered negative feedback because the answer was, "I understand your concern about X, here's why we did it" and not the self-flagellation everyone wanted.

he usually just said "I can see how this would upset you and that's unfortunate because this is the direction we chose" also looking over the thread, every other post of his is along the lines of "hmm that's interesting, maybe the numbers are off and we should look into it" on pretty much every part of her kit including base damages cooldowns reset timing stack numbers stack effects the ways you gain stacks mana costs her balance on other maps (oh hey ascension is coming out temporarily and we just changed cassiopeia so that she's tuned to powerspike at very specific moments that we've balanced only around SR, I sure hope no one has a bad experience!)

Quepha1 votes

at least we knew a rework was coming with skarner since riot would always bring up how they needed to take the permaslow off his kit before they would let him be viable. and i think skarner's in an ok place now, i like his stuns.

Anfractu0us1 votes

Now that the initial hitches and bugs are out of the way, I'm starting to like the rework. I think. I've been maining cass since something like season 2 and while not a godlike player, I'd like to imagine that I know how to play her really well. I learned a lot about playing her that I can't really replicate with any other champ, but of course most of that went away with the rework anyway. I'm glad that I no longer have to press S between every cast of E, my wrists are much happier :) What I see mostly changed is the importance of securing first blood at level 2/3 - if you don't, the game is going to feel very long and you won't bee able to do many of the things you used to be able to do, teamfight/dps-wise. IDK, she doesn't feel weak per se but she still needs tuned. Late game with 1k+ ap and wota is probably the most satisfying thing in the world. The most frustrating part of her kit atm to me is the fact that I feel permanently relegated to farming with E instead of being able to just last hit and use my q/e to be a lane bully; I've always maxed E and I've built my play style around being an extremely aggressive lane opponent and it's annoying to kinda have to "go passive" if I didn't pick up a kill early enough.

I don't log in or post like, ever, so I probably won't see any feedback to my post. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

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