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Why dont we bring back the lee sin rework idea from 2014?

Azteryz··50 votes·4,036 views

Back in 2014 riot suggested a rework for lee sin but for what ever reason a lot of people didnt like the rework idea (which is weird since the rework tackled issues people have with lee sin and complain about today) ill put up points of the rework and my opinion on it and if anyone wants to see the full thing ill put the link at the bottom

> Flurry- This is the core change for Lee Sin’s late game power level. The huge attack speed buff at later levels means Lee Sin can deal a lot of sustained damage in team fights without relying so completely on his ability damage. **> • Attack Speed bonus increased to 40/60/80/100% (at levels 1/6/11/16) from 40% at all levels . **

okay i think this is genius because it gives lee more of a shaolin monk feeling where he punches fast instead of full on skill mobility fest

they should also add different auto animations when he does this and perhaps a bit of dmg per level on these two autos itself to compensate for the rest of the kit changes

https://media.giphy.com/media/zhByiB8erxKVi/giphy.gif

> Sonic wave -Damage changed to 15/35/55/75/95 (+0.5/0.6/0.7/0.8/0.9 Total AD) from 50/80/110/140/170 (+0.9 Bonus AD)
Resonating strike- Damage changed to 15/35/55/75/95 (+0.5/0.6/0.7/0.8/0.9 Total AD) from 50/80/110/140/170 (+0.9 Bonus AD) Now deals up to 50% bonus damage (150% total damage) based on the target’s missing Health instead of 8% of the target’s missing Health

this one im not too sure on because idk how exactly it will effect him if you guys have an idea go ahead and let me know ^__^

> Safeguard- cost 100 energy from 50 cost is reduced by 50% if used on allied champion (including self)

this seems pretty self explanatory make lee pay for using mobility on minons to escape and wards to do an insece high cost high reward (which also leads to his passive because it tells him "hey your w jump cost a bunch of energy but if you use me then you can get a good bit back to continue using skills you beautiful shaolin you"

now the ult

> Dragons Rage- _Damage changed to 50/150/250 (+0.75/0.875/1.0 Total AD) from 200/400/600 (+2.0 Bonus AD) For each enemies target collide with would make target take 25/75/125 (+0.375/0.4375/0.5 Total AD) extra damage" _

ok so for those who know the recent lee buff they gave where it whoever he ulted and collided with an enemy it will do more damage based on the flying champions health i kind of loved this idea it was pretty interesting

imagine an anime if you throw the huge fat thug at a smaller thug the smaller thug is gonna get rekt this add skill for lee it promotes using your ult to knock up other people instead of using it to nuke a squishy.

the second part of the changes i feel they should tweak it if not get rid of it entirely since it seems that is what they reworked into the hp% buff he got

tl;dr i for one like the rework they thought of for lee back in 2014 i would like to see it given a second try

lets make him an actual skillful monk

Edit 1:oops i forgot the link cause im a casual here it is - http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/03/red-post-collection-lee-sin-retune-team.html

63 Comments

Stiv123429 votes

"community backlash" item 3070 Cassiopeia Mordekaiser item 3070

Malicious Metal28 votes

Stop with the tears! Morde will rust!

Azteryz2 votes

the Malicious commented on my post?

take my hue energy for your cause

WookieJesuz3 votes

What is a good morde build/masteries/runes

Malicious Metal7 votes

item 3116 item 3053 item 3146 item 3065 item 3157

12/0/18 with Grasp or 18/0/12 with DFT

Ap/level blues, hybrid or magic pen marks, health/level seals, ms quints

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

Is this the build order? (boots are missing)

Malicious Metal3 votes

build order's Usually Rylais->Steraks->Gunblade_->SV->Zhonyas Get boots early and depending on the enemy team and your preference get either Swifties, Sorcs, Tabis or Mercs.

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

K thank you :)

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

Your build worked wonders! Won a ranked game today, I now have 1 win 1 loss for my promos. Thank you so much!

Malicious Metal2 votes

Glad I could help.

Show them the power of Metal!

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2081735913/203343763?tab=overview

I did. I died the least amount of times in the whole game, and I had the help of Renekton, Lulu, and Fizz ghosts to kill towers and their allies :D (fizz for a couple times)

Dar Raksada1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0KFN4cA,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-27T23:34:10.315+0000)

item 3116 item 3053 item 3146 item 3065 item 3157

12/0/18 with Grasp or 18/0/12 with DFT

Ap/level blues, hybrid or magic pen marks, health/level seals, ms quints

is that for solo or for duolane?

Hayaishi213 votes

I liked the rework, and if Riot had any balls they would've gone through with it instead of backing away because of community feedback.

As if the community knew what they wanted.

Azteryz3 votes

thats true but not entirely true since people had the right idea when they wanted mordes title to not be named lord of death as well as his gameplay

also fioras splash art changes could be considered as well

Zone of Endless3 votes

{quoted}

thats true but not entirely true since people had the right idea when they wanted mordes title to not be named lord of death as well as his gameplay

also fioras splash art changes could be considered as well

That's only a name though. They don't want to make some changes to their main LC$BICPLAYZ when people don't like it because less people will play him.

Lee Sin is Rito's favourite child. Whenever he's too weak to be played the champs/item making him not being playded 24/7 will get gutted, and/or he will get buffed to "separate the bad Lee Sin from the good Lee Sin"

Kuroi862 votes

More along the lines of Riot let themselves get bullied into a corner. Lee Sin as he is is too popular and Riot can't make the changes that they think would be healthy for him. (It's been stated by one or two reds that they believe him to be unhealthy, they know they can't do anything about it though.)

Jefftiffy6 votes

{quoted}

I liked the rework, and if Riot had any balls they would've gone through with it instead of backing away because of community feedback.

As if the community knew what they wanted.

The rework was utter shit if you look at the numbers and all the nerfs. It's like saying, "We need to rework this innately squishy champ take away 50% of the damage and give him scaling AS because that will solve the problems he has". No it doesn't. Especially when his abilities were made more situational for even less effect than currently. It was a bad rework and there is a reason it was thrown out.

TonyTonyMordecai4 votes

If you think about it, his number changes would encourage him to build similar to a juggernaut/tank with one or two damage items, because he has total AD scaling as opposed to bonus. I don't know if making Lee be able to do that would be the best decision, but it would enforce different play patterns and probably give other champs better reasons to be picked over Lee Sin

Stand Alone Wolf6 votes

OMFG I LOVE YOU FOR THIS IP MAN GIF! IP MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Azteryz1 votes

i love you too my child

and let use get hyped for the next ip man xD

Stand Alone Wolf1 votes

omfg and Mike Tyson's going to be in it :O

HexaDecimel3 votes

Turns out Tyson never faded into bolivion, but moved to China to unleash his wrath upon Mr. Yen.

Dar Raksada1 votes

{quoted}

i love you too my child

and let use get hyped for the next ip man xD

there's a new ip man coming?

Azteryz1 votes

ip man 3 :D

TaoistMaster1 votes

+1 for IP

Stand Alone Wolf1 votes

"ONE-HUNDRED!" "But-" "SEND ME ONE-HUNDRED MEN!" Best. . . executions. . . ever. . .

Thumpin5 votes

These boards with their very small userbase are the only place I consistently see Lee Sin hate.

You have to admit, those that think Lee is broken are a very small minority.

Oh and XJ9. Yeah that guy really hated Lee Sin.

Azteryz3 votes

i personally dont think he is broken as you can tell since i never once stated that but i digress

what i do have an issue with is they could make his entire kit and character so much more

to further give you that feeling that you are playing a fast paced monk

Sightless662 votes

Yeah, but this rework wasn't really the answer. It honestly looks like one of the worst reworks Riot ever put out, particularly thematically. All movement-associated abilities are worse, either through doing less damage or by having a higher cost, and all of his power gets shunted into melee autoattacking where he can't even make good use of the mobility he has.

Lee Sin feels best when he's ability focused. Forcing him to stand still and hit someone for significant periods of time to be useful wouldn't feel good. Forcing someone to use their abilities primarily as activators for a steroid instead of for mobility wouldn't feel good. Taking away massive amounts of early game power in exchange for late-game autoattacking that can't even burst someone down and is rediculiously easy to stop because of how long he'll have to be hitting someone to kill them wouldn't feel good.

I honestly think it's a strong competitor for being the worst rework they ever proposed. It would be up there with Morde and Cassiopeia. It would make him one of the dullest champions in the game. Forcing a mobile ability-focused champion into being an autoattacking damage over time melee carry with a boring steroid sounds terrible. I'd feel horrible for all the Lee Sin players if that ever got released.

to further give you that feeling that you are playing a fast paced monk

I think the dashing around and strong abilities do that right now. I also think standing still and autoattacking wouldn't fulfill that fantasy nearly as well.

Edge of Daybreak4 votes

It didn't make it because that rework was trash. Why would you even bother playing lee when his proposed kit basically dealt no real damage outside of auto attacks and he loses all of his energy if he ward hops? Like the current "Broken" version of lee isnt even winning half the time. So let's hard nerf that because hes fun to play. This coming from a board that yells at riot for nerfing things they find fun to play ._. That rework could have worked with different numbers because as it was they basically just trashed lee sin. I dislike lee sin at times too but I wouldnt wish that rework on any champion even if I hated them.

fractalfantasies1 votes

That rework could have worked with different numbers because as it was they basically just trashed lee sin. I dislike lee sin at times too but I wouldnt wish that rework on any champion even if I hated them.

This is another reason as to why the rework was badly thought out. He would be OP when his numbers were strong and weak when his numbers were weak, a dull ball of stats. Current Lee Sin is such an elegant champ because despite not being OP at all, he is still extremely useful in the hands of a skilled player even if his items were nerfed or he is behind.

Sluiceway4 votes

It does seem odd to me that there has, and in some cases continues to be, significant criticism of reworks or nerfs, including Cassiopeia Mordekaiser Sona Soraka Evelynn Khazix Sejuani Elise (not so much the most recent Elise nerf, but previous ones), all of which have been systematically ignored by Riot, which is their prerogative to ignore, as much as they bother the players. Then they suddenly reverse themselves on their, "like it or not, its getting reworked," stance when it comes to negative feedback regarding Lee Sin.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

Glad to see I'm not the only one recalling the avoided reworks. However, given their eagerness to rework champions regardless of community opinion; now would be the time to suggest it.

Weeb Guardian3 votes

These changes would gut lee sin. Picking him would mean you're a liability to your team.

If they replaced his passive like this and change the spells scalings, they'd enforce lee to go full squichy ad to deal damage, or build full tank and deal NO DAMAGE AT ALL.

It would make building him tank 100% unviable and building him ad an instadead ('cause the energy cost on w to escape while being squichy is WAY too high).

Really, if this ever comes true i'm quite sure lee would drop to urgot's level of pickrate, as there won't be a single reason left to play him!

LankPants4 votes

I think if this went through most Lee's would build item 1400 > item 3748 or item 1401 > item 3748 (ignore smite type, I just clicked one). This rework would give him good synergy with Titanic Hydra and Sterak's Gauge since he has mostly total AD ratios.

He's still build bruiserish like he does now, he'd actually do a lot more late game damage with this build.

Really, if this ever comes true i'm quite sure lee would drop to urgot's level of pickrate, as there won't be a single reason left to play him!

Is that really such a bad thing? Lee has been the top picked jungler for as long as I can remember. Maybe a bit of time without Lee wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen to LoL.

kile1474 votes

The reason the rework was dropped was because Lee is supposed to be an early game champ who falls off late. With this rework he would instead be a slightly above average early game and transition into late game bruiser. Community feedback argued that made him far less interesting and unique because his main role is early game carry, late game playmaker.

Alëk2 votes

I think the main thing is that the reduction on his Q damage would literally destroy his early game clears. He would die at lvl 1.

Azteryz2 votes

there was compensation with his passive and his e

think of it like they shifted his power from his ult and q and added some of it to his e and passive

Alëk2 votes

the passive is the same 40% at lvl 1 as it is right now. It scales harder into late game but thats bout it. I'm almost 100% sure the E isn't enough to compensate so far. The cooldown on his E is pretty long.

Sightless662 votes

I'm almost 100% sure the E isn't enough to compensate so far.

That's correct, because if you look at the numbers, it's actually a nerf at pretty much all points of the game except for if you build literally no AD and max it last.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

I posted the same topic for this, but got downvotes and no discussion. Im jealous, but whatever, Im over it :P

Azteryz1 votes

im doing this for you then friend :)

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

Much obliged :D

9kPluzZ2 votes

Because it sucks major ass?

fractalfantasies2 votes

It's awful because you would need to go full AD to deal any real damage rather than bruiser/tank and you would get blown up totally in teamfights

EDIT: Also what makes Lee Sin such a cool pick is how selfless and team orientated you can be whilst making flashy plays, whereas usually the flashy champs are quite selfish picks.

Dengeden2 votes

As interesting as the changes seem at first glance, his damage goes down the drain and then some. He effectively has no early game and I wouldn't be surprised if Lee Support was the only way to play him. Even if he could somehow survive the first clear by buying Hunter's Potion, he'd only have attack speed to back up his late game which is all they gutted the rest of his kit for btw. They didn't even give him back his AS slow to duel people. Not an impossible feat but very unlikely. AS based champs like Yi and Xin are little more than noob stompers. Irelia and Jax ... aren't but they're still hated by most. We don't talk about Aatrox.

Sightless661 votes

They didn't even give him back his AS slow to duel people.

Well, technically this rework was proposed before his attack speed slow was removed, so it actually was intended to still be part of his kit for this rework. They removed it in a nerf a few months after the rework proposal was shot down.

Dengeden1 votes

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

Conncept2 votes

Why don't we just take away ward hopping so he doesn't have everything and the kitchen sink in his kit? Seriously, if he couldn't be wherever he wants to be whenever he wants to be there, and couldn't have deceptive and ridiculous range on his abilities, he would be fine, and both exist only because of his ability to ward hop - an entirely unintentional use of the ability in the first place.

It's just plain ludicrous that Irelia has been known for years as the character who has 'everything' in her kit while this overloaded jerkoff has gone untouched.

Lithium Rosa1 votes

I like the idea of having extra damage on Colliding, actually I love it. Don't fuking use it as a single target nuke again.

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