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i applaud you riot on how you dealt with thunderlords decree

Azteryz··139 votes·8,198 views

by not touching it

you guys buffed all the other keystones which would make them more appealing to everyone else i approve this

Deathfire Touch (Ferocity, Tier 6) Bonus Attack damage ratio increased to 60% from 50% Ability Power ratio increased to 25% from 20%

Fervor of Battle (Ferocity, Tier 6) Bonus Physical damage per stack based on level increased to [1-12] from [1-8]. Max stacks lowered to 8 from 10.

Warlord's Bloodlust (Ferocity, Tier 6) Now heals for 5%-25% of damage dealt based on level (from 15%) and grants 30% attack speed (up from 20%) for 4 seconds.

Stormraider's Surge (Cunning, Tier 6) Movement speed bonus increased to 40% from 35% Now also grants 100% slow resistance for 3 seconds Time frame to deal damage increased to 2.5 seconds from 2

Bond of Stone (Resolve, Tier 6) Now [+4% Damage Reduction. 6% of the damage from enemy champions taken by the nearest allied champion is dealt to you instead.] from [+3% Damage Reduction, increased to 6% while near an allied champion. 6% of the damage from enemy champions taken by the nearest allied champion is dealt to you instead.] Base damage reduction increased to 4% from 3% Damage reduction no longer doubles while near an allied champion.

Strength of Ages (Resolve, Tier 6) Now "After reaching the max bonus, these kills instead restore 6% of your Maximum Health" from "After reaching the max bonus, siege minion kills restore 100 Health" Effect now triggers on large monsters and siege minions rather than only siege minions. Max bonus kill effect now restores 6% maximum health from 100 health.

127 Comments

Nier6427 votes

[deleted]

Ch0c0lateJesus4 votes

Giving a Yi ult to champs who's only weakness is being kited is not good balance.

DeathBurst4 votes

It's very clear that Stormraider is not geared toward kite-able champs. Maybe Nasus is a fringe case and will abuse it, but with the 10 sec CD, I doubt it.

But except Nasus, if you are kite-able, how do you manage to get to your opponent and deal 30% in 2.5 s to get the speed boost?

Also, Riot explicitly said that Red tree was for DPS, Purple for Burst.

So based on all that, Stormraider is geared toward burst mage/assassins to give them a way to escape after getting a kill. Think Diana, Rengar, Talon, Akali (maybe Annie?). They may have a gap closer to get in range of their target, but they have no way to get out.

HAIL WHYDRA1 votes

The only person I can see this abuseable on is Darius . Catch someone out, "DUNKMATE!" Rush over to the enemy team, "ALL DAY! HA HA HA! GET DUNKED! SIT DOWN!" ENEMY PENTAKILL ACED

DeathBurst1 votes

The boost is only 3 sec, with a 10 sec CD...

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Darius already has a speed boost on his passive. I think the more valuable component would the the 3 second slow immunity.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

  1. Darius lost the speed boost on passive

  2. getting it instead of grasp of undying im not too sure how I would feel about it. I guess that's why there's such a thing called testing.....

Ruin Lance13 votes

wow im really looking forward to this, especially stormraider's surge. 100% slow resistance? yes please. Talon and Yasuo gonna love this

Robert Smith11 votes

item 3070 MasterYi item 3070 Rip unique thing about Yi.

TheDiff1 votes

until MasterYi gets it, along with his ult....OH OH MY item 3151

Robert Smith2 votes

Bit over kill since he engages with the ult so he won't be using it.

Mistress Madoka1 votes

That Dance speed would be insane!

Vincent Lucius7 votes

There there, dear. He's still got the best dance moves on the rift that only get better with attack speed. His DPS (dance per second) is still insane.

Mistress Madoka1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vincent Lucius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0v6iGsAh,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2015-12-15T08:23:35.648+0000)

There there, dear. He's still got the best dance moves on the rift that only get better with movement speed. His DPS (dance per second) is still insane.

ftfy

Vincent Lucius2 votes

Just tried Talon with the current storm raider's and it was pretty fun. Killing someone and hauling ass to get away before people could collapse on me.

48983507DEL12 votes

Cept Warlord's Bloodlust is still so much more efficient on Yasuo

Dreadlocks4 votes

I'm really looking forward to the next patch now. I'm so glad they're buffing the other keystones instead of nerfing thunderlords.

Aeolian Melodies4 votes

lmao the support keystone is the only one that doesn't get buffed

typical rito being typical

Not sure why Deathfire Touch has such a good AD ratio and such a shitty AP ratio when it's geared towards mages btw.

Azteryz45 votes

the support keystone and grasp of the undying keystones didnt get buffed for the same reason thunderlords decree didnt get touched which is because they are already in a good spot

It Hertz When IP6 votes

Agreed. I had/have no issues with the Wind-thingy keystone with regards to the others.

Remlap12237 votes

Um, Windspeaker's Blessing was already in a good spot..

But I know you were just fishing for upvotes.

I Miss Cannon10 votes

Good thing she got the opposite.

Zedex3 votes

Well from the summoner icon it seems to be a filthy Sona main.

They're never pleased and always "oppressed"

Sona mains are LoLs version of femminists lol

Remlap12233 votes

Oh look, somone who bought Pulsefire Ezreal. I bet you suck dick with him.

I would know, I own him as well. And I suck dick with Ezreal.

What I'm saying is I'v e spent too much money on this game. Also you're completely off base and I only bought DJ Sona because her music makes me moist. But it's nice to see your upvote fishing backfire so splendidly.

Maple Crusader12 votes

{quoted}

I bet you suck dick with him.

And I suck dick with Ezreal.

DJ Sona makes me moist.

http://rs71.pbsrc.com/albums/i140/shortpenguin/Gifs/Famous%20Individuals/oh-my-takei_zps45fbdc2c.gif~c200

Flip Flop Mist9 votes

{quoted} And I suck dick with Ezreal.

Oh my indeed. Taric

brad4 votes

can someone explain to me how the ~250 damage you get from thunderlord's isnt overpowered??????

ZephyrDrake10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0v6iGsAh,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-12-15T06:01:18.085+0000)

can someone explain to me how the ~250 damage you get from thunderlord's isnt overpowered??????

because it doesn't start at '250 damage'? because it only procs once every 20 seconds?

brad1 votes

{quoted}

because it doesn't start at '250 damage'? because it only procs once every 20 seconds?

same can be said about literally everything in the game

leblanc doesnt start the game one shotting people

yasuo doesnt start the game with 100% crit

tahm kench doesnt start the game at full build

if someone had an ability that started at 0 damage, but then at 40 minutes into the game turned into an ability that instantly aced the enemy team, would that be okay? because according to your answer, you think it would be

ZephyrDrake4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0v6iGsAh,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-12-15T09:03:45.414+0000)

same can be said about literally everything in the game

leblanc doesnt start the game one shotting people

yasuo doesnt start the game with 100% crit

tahm kench doesnt start the game at full build

if someone had an ability that started at 0 damage, but then at 40 minutes into the game turned into an ability that instantly aced the enemy team, would that be okay? because according to your answer, you think it would be

and yet LeBlanc is not OP, Yasuo isn't crowding any other picks and is more annoying than actually OP and Tahm doesn't need a full build to do what he does. Also Thunderlords procs ONCE every 20 seconds and has a base damage of 180 at lvl 18! with a pitiful 10% AP ratio and a somewhat-except-not-really ok 30% AD ratio. Thunderlord is the least of your worries come late game since the damage it adds isn't all that big, it adds ok damage but nothing to be impressed about. Thunderlord's is a keystone mastery that does it's job, it adds extra damage to your combos but nothing that is going to explode you by itself. Chances are you are going to die anyways regardless of thunderlord's proc or not and in lane is barely even noticeable since it's damage is so small

DeathBurst1 votes

I agreed until I reached "and in lane...".

It is in early-game that Thunderlord is the strongest. Good base damage, even without items. The CD is not a problem, since you mostly do short trades and wait a little between 2 trades. Easy to proc for most champs.

That's why Thunderlord crowds the other masteries out in the current live patch: it's easy to use AND immediately impactful. Even in the current state, Thunderlord is outscaled in late game damages by Deathfire Touch or Fervor of Battle, it's just much better much early to pass it.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

I agreed until I reached "and in lane...".

It is in early-game that Thunderlord is the strongest. Good base damage, even without items. The CD is not a problem, since you mostly do short trades and wait a little between 2 trades. Easy to proc for most champs.

That's why Thunderlord crowds the other masteries out in the current live patch: it's easy to use AND immediately impactful. Even in the current state, Thunderlord is outscaled in late game damages by Deathfire Touch or Fervor of Battle, it's just much better much early to pass it.

Thunderlord's base damage is 10 and it increases by 10 each lvl and it deals magic damage. The base damage of Thunderlord in the laning phase is not as big as you think it is, most of the base damage it gets in the laning phase comes from the AD scaling (if you are playing against an AD champion). As the game goes Thunderlord's goes from dealing barely noticable damage to ok damage, the issues with every other mastery is that they are not as versatile or general purpose as Thunderlord is, 2/3s of the keystones in the ferocity tree are for auto attack users while you have a 3rd that isn't all that great (hopefully the buff will fix this!) while in the cunning tree you have one mastery that is for supports, and even then it's only for those who heal/shield regularly one that is just basically a glorified MS boost and Thunderlord. The tank keystones are just for that, tanking or getting tankier. It is no surprise to see Thunderlord being picked when it is the one with the most general purpose of them. You want damage? take Thunderlord! oh are you an auto attacker? then here are 2 keystones in the ferocity tree that you might enjoy! are you a dot mage or someone with good sustained damage? here is DFT! everyone else? Thunderlord!... unless you want a speed boost for whatever reason

DeathBurst1 votes

Imagine if they buffed Annie's Q by 20 damage per rank. Wouldn't you say it's a huge buff? In practice, that's the amount of damage Thunderlord adds to her basic trading combo. It is always a good amount of damage, it is always more than barely noticeable.

It it was barely noticeable in lane, more people would already pick Deathfire above Thunderlord, just because Deathfire can affect many people in teamfights, whereas Thunderlord can proc only on 1 before going on CD.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Imagine if they buffed Annie's Q by 20 damage per rank. Wouldn't you say it's a huge buff? In practice, that's the amount of damage Thunderlord adds to her basic trading combo. It is always a good amount of damage, it is always more than barely noticeable.

It it was barely noticeable in lane, more people would already pick Deathfire above Thunderlord, just because Deathfire can affect many people in teamfights, whereas Thunderlord can proc only on 1 before going on CD.

using that logic, DFT is always more noticable than Thunderlord's since it always activates no matter what skill you use and it doesn't have a cooldown attached to it unlike Thunderlord. The only difference being one being instant and the other being overtime but early game you can just launch one skill and let it sit, it's specially noticable if you are an AD champion due to the stupid 50% AD ratio it has currently. So yeah, DFT is adding way more damage than Thunderlord over the course of time and if you are able to add consistent poke damage then there is no contest in which one is better. The reason people are picking Thunderlord over DFT is largely because of the flat pen vs %pen masteries that come before them. % armor pen is pointless on anyone who isn't building armor and the %magic pen while useful the flat pen is still more useful until the enemy starts buying some MR

DeathBurst1 votes

You said, in your original post, that TLD damage is weak in late game (it's true and not what I am arguing about) and "barely noticeable" in lane. This is wrong, TLD damage in lane is huge, that was the point of my first post.

Then, you calculated the actual amount of damage of TLD and repeated it was "barely noticeable". So in my second post, I gave you a comparison of what this amount of damage really represents, to make you understand it is huge.

Then in you last post you ramble about "using that logic, DFT always deals more damage than TLD". It's wrong. The base damage of TLD is so huge that one proc of TLD is equivalent to ~4 full-duration procs of DFT (for typical AP/AD values and around level 6). So unless you can easily and reliably poke your opponent every ~5s, you typically deal much more damage with one easy proc of TLD every 20s. And TLD is also better for early all-ins and getting kills in lane. Last detail, the damage doesn't come from the AD ratio, because it's BONUS AD only (for both masteries), that's why the base damage/level in TLD is so important.

So, to be very clear:

  • In lane, TLD damage is huge. Really. I can repeat a 5th time if you want: it's huge.
  • In teamfights, TLD damage is okay-ish, but can only proc on 1 person, with a 20s CD, so it is not interesting.
  • On the other hand, in lane, DFT damage is weak-to-okay, but vastly inferior to TLD.
  • In team-fights, DFT damage is okay-to-good, and proc on everyone, so it is clearly superior to TLD.

TLD overcrowds the other Masteries because: a/ Precision is better (your point, I agree with that) AND b/ it's very useful in early game for everyone, **and you were saying the opposite. **

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

You said, in your original post, that TLD damage is weak in late game (it's true and not what I am arguing about) and "barely noticeable" in lane. This is wrong, TLD damage in lane is huge, that was the point of my first post.

Then, you calculated the actual amount of damage of TLD and repeated it was "barely noticeable". So in my second post, I gave you a comparison of what this amount of damage really represents, to make you understand it is huge.

Then in you last post you ramble about "using that logic, DFT always deals more damage than TLD". It's wrong. The base damage of TLD is so huge that one proc of TLD is equivalent to ~4 full-duration procs of DFT (for typical AP/AD values and around level 6). So unless you can easily and reliably poke your opponent every ~5s, you typically deal much more damage with one easy proc of TLD every 20s. And TLD is also better for early all-ins and getting kills in lane. Last detail, the damage doesn't come from the AD ratio, because it's BONUS AD only (for both masteries), that's why the base damage/level in TLD is so important.

So, to be very clear:

  • In lane, TLD damage is huge. Really. I can repeat a 5th time if you want: it's huge.
  • In teamfights, TLD damage is okay-ish, but can only proc on 1 person, with a 20s CD, so it is not interesting.
  • On the other hand, in lane, DFT damage is weak-to-okay, but vastly inferior to TLD.
  • In team-fights, DFT damage is okay-to-good, and proc on everyone, so it is clearly superior to TLD.

TLD overcrowds the other Masteries because: a/ Precision is better (your point, I agree with that) AND b/ it's very useful in early game for everyone, **and you were saying the opposite. **

keep telling yourself that, a 10 base damage thing that increases by 10 with each lvl and that only procs ONCE every 20 seconds is not "huge" Every single time i get hit by it i just see and say to myself "that did nothing to me" and you will more than likely regen the damage dealt to you by it in lane unless you are that stupid to get hit by it every 20 seconds. The damage adds over time yes but it's not nearly as big as you make it seem to be. I have never go went and said "i died because of Thunderlord's" or "wow thunderlord's really did a lot of damage to me" while i was in lane, the most was "huh, that was mildly annoying" It adds damage to a combo which is nice but the main reason it's crowding the other masteries is not because it's strong it's because the other masteries have been nerfed to shit.

Fervor only being allowed to be stacked on champions really hurt it's usability specially with how many stacks it needs in the first place, Warlord's is ok at best not that great and is only sustain which might be useful on some champions but for the most part you don't really care all that much and rather have some damage. DFT just isn't appealing enough for non dot mages even though the damage is very comparable to Thunderlord's if not even higher and it's sad to say but those are all the ones in the ferocity tree and 2 of them are pointless to anyone who doesn't like auto attacking while the 3rd just doesn't look as appealing and the %pen vs flat pen thing doesn't help.

Then you go to the cunning tree and you have a support mastery, another one that makes you fast... ok i guess and Thunderlord's. Only one option if you want more damage which is then further amplified by the flat pen mastery. While the tank tree has masteries for tanks, for the most part. Grasp of the undying could be used for auto attackers like Shyv and Udyr if they really want i guess.

DeathBurst1 votes

Level 5, before your first back, Annie basic harass combo deals 150+70+59 = 279 damage. TLD adds 50 damage, which is an 18% increase in damage. Barely noticeable? I don't think so. Level 7, it's even at 22%.

If you want to all-in level 6 with your ult+Ignite, it still represents a 10% increase. TLD is very much the difference between a kill or not.

Now look at all the other damage amp available: Oppresor, 2.5%; Bounty hunter, 5% max (and definitely not in laning phase); Assassin, 1.5%. Compare that to TLD. And think again.

EDIT: I took Annie in all my examples because it's the only mid I play and I know her play-patterns well. But it's the same thing for almost all mid laners who poke with more than a simple skill at a time. For Lux, 1 spell + the AA proc is enough. For Fizz, 1 Q. Ahri can proc it relatively easily with her Fox Fire. Etc., etc.

The other 3 damage masteries all out-scale TLD in late game. But TLD lets you win lane and snowball the game before the late game even starts. So sure, the fact that Precision is superior to the Ferocity alternative is also part of the reason why TLD is chosen so much. But you can't say that TLD damage is "barely noticeable".

AbodyHUN6666 votes

Not op because everything else is also op. That 250 damage is less than an autoattack from most champions who take it.

Kuroi864 votes

Stormraider's Surge (Cunning, Tier 6) Movement speed bonus increased to 40% from 35% Now also grants 100% slow resistance for 3 seconds Time frame to deal damage increased to 2.5 seconds from 2

Hecarim Breathing intensifies

Strength of Ages (Resolve, Tier 6) Now "After reaching the max bonus, these kills instead restore 6% of your Maximum Health" from "After reaching the max bonus, siege minion kills restore 100 Health" Effect now triggers on large monsters and siege minions rather than only siege minions. Max bonus kill effect now restores 6% maximum health from 100 health.

Chogath Breathing intensifies

Deathfire Touch (Ferocity, Tier 6) Bonus Attack damage ratio increased to 60% from 50% Ability Power ratio increased to 25% from 20%

Twitch Fiddlesticks Brand Cassiopeia MissFortune Mordekaiser Morgana Rumble Teemo Viktor BREATHING INTENSIFIES

Fertsa1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Durzaka3 votes

Except they didnt fix Fervor of Battle or Warlord's Bloodlust at all. They still have the exact same problem as before, and people will still take Thunderlord's decree over either of them.

Chicken4dinner1 votes

Who is going to get into an extended fight in lane for over 8 attacks?

Jax maybe...?

AbusingMyRights1 votes

melee only needs 4 attacks though

Partholonian3 votes

Less with devourer. Or Yi's passive. Or Warwick ult.

Chicken4dinner1 votes

True That makes a bit more sense but still, adc's probably wont take it

Saixos3 votes

Tbh they kinda did fix them, I'd now rather have warlords on vayne or fervor on irelia, this patch thunderlords has been better on both champions.

The big issue is the armor pen before them, right now a large part of why thunderlords is better is also because the flat penetration is much better in most situations than the % pen. Buffing up the % pen a bit would help a lot.

DeathBurst2 votes

I don't play Vayne or Irelia, so could you detail a bit more?

In current state, Warlord and Fervor already outscale Thunderlord in late game damages. And even on PBE, Thunderlord is still better in early game.

So what makes you change your mind between Live and PBE?

Saixos3 votes

In current state, Fervor's damage is much more unreliable than Thunderlords since you need to stack it. With Irelia thunderlords lets her take short trades before all-inning more easily. Vayne is just a numbers game, the 3 hit synergizes really well with her W and gives her enough early game power that she can snowball more easily with an aggressive support.

Warlords requires you to build crit after all, and once Vayne has enough crit to make use of warlords properly then she's already at a good enough spot where she is no longer weak. Thunderlords helps her during her weakest state, once Vayne gets a bit of strength she's all good.

With PBE though the increased late game power of Warlords makes me like it a lot more. It's a difference of "Early game weakness buffer VS minor late game power increase" to "Early game weakness buffer to strong late game power increase".

Irelia is really much more about the pen that precision gives you, since Irelia deals a lot of mixed damage with Guinsoo's.

If Fervor takes 4 hits to stack fully including spells and deals more damage per stack, then the damage Fervor deals over 4 autoattacks (including E use for a stack) will definitely beat thunderlords, and the Fervor damage will increase by levels more rapidly so Irelia can make more use out of her midgame spikes.

FantasySniper2 votes

It looks like Thunderlord's real problems are the few picks that exploit their DoTs like MissFortune Morgana Teemo. If it's going to get nerfed, it should stop proc'ing from multiple instances of damage from the same ability within its duration.

gameipedia1 votes

or from gromp, or maybe smite too

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