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Please do something about Cho'Gath Riot

Hallbuster··2 votes·730 views

You can hit this purple dinosaur 1000 times and he still won't die. I don't know who in Riot thought it would be balanced to give a champion: a natural tank composition, burst, huge AP ratios, true damage on his ult, sustain, and low mana costs was a good idea.

Just played a game where I did everything I could do avoid dying in my lane to Cho'Gath to a player that wasn't even exceptionally good. I even got jungler help to shut him down early and took previous advice, building liandry's torment against him and trying to constantly harass him with my q. When that didn't work I even played safe, but in the end, I still lost and died to him. Before I'm "supposed to get good," I want you to know I had 180 CS a little over 20 minutes(maybe 23) at some point in the game even after roaming.

Meanwhile, my other lanes were getting screwed over, so I was stuck with a decision: lose top or teammates.

This champion is so ridiculously hard to kill that unless you have your entire team focus him he'll always get away with a sliver of health.

I used to think Darius was a load of BS but even he can't keep up with his mana costs without building off - meta.

39 Comments

Hallbuster1 votes

So nobody has anymore advice? Might as well quit my client the next time I see Cho'Gath.

Dreampod1 votes

I realise you are frustrated but it is hard to give you any better advice than 'get good' when you are making claims that are so counter-factual as 'he has low mana costs' since it seems more like you just want to be frustrated rather than exploit his weaknesses.

Despite that, here is my attempt: -Kite him. He is slow and the long delay on his Q means that his reach against someone retreating is quite low. -In lane commit to pushing the minions into his tower or fighting him. If you force him under tower he will go OOM fast and if you fight him he won't be able to passively heal up from the minions without giving up his ability to trade back by using his expensive abilities on minions. -Rush boots. Q is very telegraphed and quite easy to dodge when there aren't lots of distractions particularly once you've got some extra move speed.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

I realise you are frustrated but it is hard to give you any better advice than 'get good' when you are making claims that are so counter-factual as 'he has low mana costs' since it seems more like you just want to be frustrated rather than exploit his weaknesses.

Despite that, here is my attempt: -Kite him. He is slow and the long delay on his Q means that his reach against someone retreating is quite low. -In lane commit to pushing the minions into his tower or fighting him. If you force him under tower he will go OOM fast and if you fight him he won't be able to passively heal up from the minions without giving up his ability to trade back by using his expensive abilities on minions. -Rush boots. Q is very telegraphed and quite easy to dodge when there aren't lots of distractions particularly once you've got some extra move speed.

This is the best advice I'll get, pushing his minions undeer his tower is risky with jungler presence though. I don't know how it will turn out.

Dreampod1 votes

Definitely risky. If you take that approach you should be investing in a control ward and using your trinket ward to ensure you've got enough warning to get away if the jungler comes calling. I usually try to put both on the same side of the river and play heavily to that side of the lane.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Definitely risky. If you take that approach you should be investing in a control ward and using your trinket ward to ensure you've got enough warning to get away if the jungler comes calling. I usually try to put both on the same side of the river and play heavily to that side of the lane.

Yeah, warding deep is often safer as long as your opponent doesn't see it. Some champions like Hecarim move in far too quickly before you can react. I always put my wards in the bush around but not next to the blue golem.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Just fight him the same way you would any other immobile melee champion. He is so weak right now that you really can do anything you want and still beat him. The best thing to do is to make sure you are building properly to deal with his allies and not get caught up on dealing with him because he will almost always be the weakest champion on any given team.

I don't know why I'm hearing "weak" spread everywhere when Cho'gath is mentioned? How is Cho'Gath "weak" at all? Can you at least give me some examples aside from what I listed: slow, no escape/immobile? He's had no history of nerfs from what I remember and even gets infinite stacks now.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

He got nerfed hard on 6.20 and has been at a 46-47% winrate since then. He is an immobile melee champion in a game defined by mobility and range and his cast times are atrocious. He literally has no tools to deal with most of the other champions in league and simply loses to just about everything except for the weakest champions.

I don't know any champion that can flat out beat him? Can you name just one?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Fiora

Great job picking a champion that's widely considered op. What's next, Jax, Riven?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

.

And yet you couldn't think of it. That says far more about you than anything else.

Also, pretty much everyone destroys chogath right now that is how weak he is. But if you want some champions that makes the matchup trivial: moredkaiser, singed, darius, trynd, and gnar all have a 55% winrate. Pretty much every other top laner (or midlaner when he goes there) are above 50% against him

I'll have to see.

Jo0o1 votes

47% win rate tho

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

47% win rate tho

Winrates don't mean @$@%! This argument is as groundless as "get good" just because you can't disprove what I say or offer better advice. Do you know where win rates come from? The LoL population, guess where 83% of these stats come from, bronze and silver!

Jo0o1 votes

Kite him and dodge his abilities.

There's strength in his kit, like in virtually all kits, but Cho has hella weaknesses. Most team comps can simply ignore him, or kite him down if he gets aggressive.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Kite him and dodge his abilities.

There's strength in his kit, like in virtually all kits, but Cho has hella weaknesses. Most team comps can simply ignore him, or kite him down if he gets aggressive.

Really ignore a Cho' Gath while he's silencing, rupturing, and wrecking havoc in your entire team? No, he's not a priority target but you can't treat him like a tank either. Kiting only work when you're in the lane not in the middle of a team fight or visionless jungle and even then doesn't do enough damage to leave a dent.

Michael7021 votes

Actually, most of the stats come from plat +.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Actually, most of the stats come from plat +.

Yep, because Plat is the league everyone's in right now. What about gold, diamond, challenger?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

He has a 46-47% winrate across all of those leagues.

Now tell me how this makes him "weak."

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

A champion with a 2-3% pick rate and a 46-47% winrate shows that the champion simply lacks the tools to match up with the majority of champions in league. This means that compared to other champions, he is objectively weak and underpowered.

Same as above.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

You haven't made any counterpoints above.

Alright, I admit win rate does have some accuracy but not always. Annivia has the highest win rate currently, yet no one plays her? How do you explain that?

Jorencice1 votes

And bronze and silver suck at the game...

Cho is worthless if he doesn't land his Q. And NO ONE is going to get hit by such a telegraphed attack above plat.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

And bronze and silver suck at the game...

Cho is worthless if he doesn't land his Q. And NO ONE is going to get hit by such a telegraphed attack above plat.

There's more CC in abilities than there's not. You can get stunned, slowed, etc. and rupture will land!

Joxcab1 votes

And still statistically shit.

FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votes

Cho is trash. Easy to kite, telegraphed abilities. The champion is awful.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Cho is trash. Easy to kite, telegraphed abilities. The champion is awful.

Easy to kite, impossible to kill. I poked him 10 times in lane with my empowered Q as Vladimir, got him to around half health. That's not even enough time before his next teleport. Also, just because some abilities are telegraphed doesn't make them terrible. All it takes is some good prediction and you can land your skill shot accurately.

FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votes

Fortunately as Vlad, you too, are impossible to kill. There are matchups like that. Watch a Vlad fight a Karma, for example. Cho is easy to handle as a team. ADCs ruin him.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Fortunately as Vlad, you too, are impossible to kill. There are matchups like that. Watch a Vlad fight a Karma, for example. Cho is easy to handle as a team. ADCs ruin him.

Then in scenario's like these, the game is lost regardless because my team wasn't doing well. They couldn't even save their own lanes, much less mine.

FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votes

Losing lanes is a good indicator of a losing game, regardless of what champion you're vs.

Mig891 votes

Yeah dude. Mages usually have a hard time against late game tanks. It requires an ADC to shred him with LDR/bork/attack speed or some combination of the three. Cho isnt broken.

Michael7021 votes

So play Chogath if he's so OP.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

So play Chogath if he's so OP.

Another comment that's avoiding the issue, why stop at Cho'Gath. There are champions that are even stronger than Cho'Gath and even harder to deal with. Why don't I play Riven, Yasuo, or Miss Fortune once lethality gets buffed once again!

Michael7021 votes

You should.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

You should.

Might google some challenger streams and see if they fit the matchup.

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