Why exactly are we nerfing cinderhulk, when spirit of the ancient golem was far superior

TheSingularity··11 votes·1,091 views

Okays, they nerf both cinderhulk and sejuani, because sejuani was OP with it, ok makes sense. But now that assasins and hyper carries are coming back into the meta, other tanks like nautilus and zac have suffered the consequences of these nerfs. She wasn't all that special during the assasin/hyper carry meta a few years ago. However she was playable as were nautilus and zac(well Zac was OP), but kha zix and elise as well as other assassins were simply more favourable. Now I'm no sej lover, imma naut lover and it's painful to see a champ be made obsolete, especially with vayne's rising pick rate, defensive item nerfs and the reign of sated devourer. Personally I'd pick the old ancient golem over cinderhulk+smite any day. The stats were just so helpful and towards the end of last year they specifically tailored it to make it easier for utility tanks early game. Cinderhulk+smite

  1. 400 HP
  2. 15% bonus HP
  3. AOE DOT passive
  4. 10HP+5MP for 3 seconds while in combat with monsters
  5. What ever smite you choose so... AOE monster stun, small true dmg+slow vs champs, damage reduction and true dmg on aa then well there's poachers knife but nobody uses that. and in total costs 2250.

Now Spirit of the ancient golem

  1. HP- 350/400 pre-nerf or 200 HP post nerf
  2. 25% bonus HP
  3. 20 armour
  4. 10% CDR
  5. Gold passive+sapping barbs. Deals damage to all monsters who attack you(pretty much the sunfire cape passive) and grants hp/mana regen in combat with monsters..
  6. And my favourite part, especially when they added trinkets. A ward. This ward+ tinket wards was awesome. Loved warding the enemy jungle up and counter-ganking.

Now, I'd assume most people would prefer the new smites, simply because a majority of them are very useful. But they put a decent effort to make utility junglers strong during the assasin meta through quill coat and the ward addition. And then they just through it away for an easily inferior enchantment, cinderhulk. Simply my 5 cents worth. But tanks have gotta fit somewhere, and the demand for tanks is getting less and less as the assasin/hyper carry meta returns in all its Teemo level glory.

11 Comments

TheDogIsOut3 votes

TBH last season at the end the items were extremely well balanced. Ancient Golem was great and tanks were viable. Post-nerfs Feral Flare was actually pretty balanced (though it was broken at release^^), so was Elder Lizard. And then they scrapped everything they had worked hard on for new season yaayyyyy....

TheSingularity1 votes

IKR, that 3 month-ish period was probably when the game was at its best in terms of balance. As you said, feral was toned down so udyr and shyv weren't complete monsters. Tanks could actually be tanky by about 15-20 minutes, now its like 35 unless your a tank with allot of free stats(leona, braum ect). Assassins were viable but not OP and most adcs needed peel to be effective late-game, unlike one Sl*t i know who gets to roll around all day.

As you said, I really don't understand why they would flush all the great progress down the dunny for 4 new smite items that in the end, really aren't that amazing. Especially for AP junglers who don't use runeglaive, what're they meant to build now?

Count Buffon2 votes

{quoted}

AP junglers who don't use runeglaive, what're they meant to build now?

http://blogs.baruch.cuny.edu/his1005spring2011/files/2011/03/shack1.jpg

The Fast2 votes

You are forgetting something. Golem had Barbs and NOTHING else. Cinder has Immolate AND the Jungler passives, making it far superior for clearing.

Barbs was basically the same amount of regen/damage as a spirit stone.

TheSingularity1 votes

Golem offered a ward+cdr and used to offer more base HP+ more %HP with some armour. Small stats but when together they are a very nice package that is far more valuable than the pissy HP you get from cinderhulk and 15% bonus HP.....

The Fast1 votes

Yeah, but the REASON cinder was strong is allowing tanks to clear. Golem didn't have as much impact because it wasn't good at addressing the whole "tank farming" problem, which cinder has.

MrKoala1 votes

So true, so sick of having to use a crap tank item on all my baby junglers. Why RIOT WHYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Count Buffon1 votes

What annoys me about Cinderhulk is that it has 60% of Sunfire's passive, but I'm not allowed to build Sunfire nemoar because Rito sez jungle item haz to be OP at clearz so I no can skip.

Jungle items are just one big failed experiment. Every time they're good, some laner buys them, and people complain that top lane or Israel is playing with their toys, and they have to nerf it to the ground and then start over with a new item.

They should just give Smite an upgradeable passive directly or something. Stop forcing the jungle meta to change every patch because three or four items are in an idiotic power struggle at all times, but they're not allowed to be good because Israel might buy and he no jungle lolol.

I honestly liked it better when ADCs were poaching 24/7, but I was allowed to choose items for myself instead of Rito telling me what this month's mandatory item is for my champion.

Count Buffon1 votes

For me, what annoyed me about Spirit was when they DRM-locked the sustain to only work in the jungle. "Farm harder, bro!" Rito warp meta so top laner not play with ur toyz. This is what happens when a Tenacity item that's not worn on your feet is even remotely successful.

Sniper 01 votes

Spirit is kinda useless outside of the jungle passive wise. Yeah you get the amazing stats for cheap but cinderhulk gives you sustained damage for team fights. This is much more valuable when you're ganking.

Spirit was kind of overloaded and is a greatly overpowered utility wise however. I would be extremely disappointed if an item of it's stats and active pool came back especially for 2k.... but it doesn't really promote actively ganking. It actually received a new active before it was removed from the game. It was a bit more busted than being able to carry that ward around. :P

Decrit1 votes

First of all: no, spirit of the ancient golem was horrible. It provided tankiness only in moments where some damage was needed, and that is why cinderhulk is far more superior.

Second: i don't see it as a nerf frankly, those 100 hp early are far more important than that 5% global, that 5% translates in more than 100 less kategame ( 4000 base hp = 200 ) but is far far less impactful. It enhances its early game power, and i think it is good for a jungler.

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