Ranged champion hatred.

The thigh guy·Feb 18, 2019·8 votes·4,728 views

Can anyone please explain to me the hate boner everyone on here seems to have for any champion with more than 200 range?

Are you all just riding the hashinshin train?

I get it, range is a advantage, but riot takes it into account when designing champion kits. And for proof of this, let’s look at garen. Imagine his kit, but on a ranged champion. So all of his abilities are at, we’ll say 550 range. That would be broken af. So riot doesn’t do that.

So why the hell it is, that any ranged champion ever has to be sub 50% winrate or every loses their god damn minds?

Melee champions are given more power into all their abilities and their stats and growths, as well as given the best items in the game, at the cost of range.

64 Comments

SaezioFeb 18, 20197 votes

None hates ranged champions because they are ranged.

The problem is when the ranged is paired with mobility that is way superior to the avg melee mobility.

You won't see people complain about caitlyn or Jinx or Kog or Annie even though they have the best range in the game.

But you will see people complain about viktor because his shield spam coupled with the MS rendered a huge chunk of the traditional-toplane roaster useless. Also, during the Jhin-HoB-Stormrazor fiasco you saw every melee be frustrated and rightfully so, since a supposedly "immobile Carry" was able to outran an ulting Yi while autoattacking him at the same time, or even be able to outrun fizz's Q animation.

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

None hates ranged champions because they are ranged.

The problem is when the ranged is paired with mobility that is way superior to the avg melee mobility.

You won't see people complain about caitlyn or Jinx or Kog or Annie even though they have the best range in the game.

But you will see people complain about viktor because his shield spam coupled with the MS rendered a huge chunk of the traditional-toplane roaster useless. Also, during the Jhin-HoB-Stormrazor fiasco you saw every melee be frustrated and rightfully so, since a supposedly "immobile Carry" was able to outran an ulting Yi while autoattacking him at the same time, or even be able to outrun fizz's Q animation.

Except range champions need some mobility now because melee champions were handed full rage passive, deadman’s plate, full phase rush movement, righteous glory, and a bottomless list of other items to make them run at Mach 47.

And yes I’m aware of the argument “ jUsT cC tHeM” but cc is not the be all end all answer.

SaezioFeb 18, 20191 votes

Yeah and on top of that they have flash and ghost. -.- your arguments are very shallow. Items are not the answer.

some mobility is different to Lucian's or Kai'sas or Vayne's ability to perma-hop around

Pick any melee champ without a gapcloser and try to use it as an adc. See how hard it is? OK

It should be equally hard to pull of the opposite, ADC into a juggernaut top or jungle, but it isn't

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah and on top of that they have flash and ghost. -.- your arguments are very shallow. Items are not the answer.

some mobility is different to Lucian's or Kai'sas or Vayne's ability to perma-hop around

Pick any melee champ without a gapcloser and try to use it as an adc. See how hard it is? OK

It should be equally hard to pull of the opposite, ADC into a juggernaut top or jungle, but it isn't

Okay. But the argument for kai’sa requires items. -.- and Vayne has nothing else. That’s all she has. Damage, and a dash/stealth that is extremely predictable because you see the direction she is going before the stealth and sure she has a stun, that YOU control. You have just as much control of her stun as she does.

As for Lucien, he is the exception, not the average. You can say the same thing about (Insert s tier champion here) having bullshit levels of power.

And again, if you pick a melee champion, without a gap closer that is entirely your own fault. You traded range and mobility for a champion that is statistically unbeatable when they get on top of you. You just want that champion to be handed a way to get on top of you as well as being nearly guaranteed to win when they do? The fuq?

RagnaveilFeb 19, 20192 votes

Dont forget champs that are ranged that will abuse the living ass out of Klepto atm (Karma and Kennen(and you already mentioned vik)). As a melee, it literally sucks when you try to farm but the enemy just gets massive cashouts from just hitting you with autos. Had a game where I was Sion and I dicked the enemy Karma top and she went 0/2 (from what I remember), but ended up getting first item before I finished my first tank item because of the mass amount of Klepto procs I couldn't contest. Being a melee vs ranged sucks, but it sucks even more when something like Klepto can make that feeling get amped up to 11.

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Dont forget champs that are ranged that will abuse the living ass out of Klepto atm (Karma and Kennen(and you already mentioned vik)). As a melee, it literally sucks when you try to farm but the enemy just gets massive cashouts from just hitting you with autos. Had a game where I was Sion and I dicked the enemy Karma top and she went 0/2 (from what I remember), but ended up getting first item before I finished my first tank item because of the mass amount of Klepto procs I couldn't contest. Being a melee vs ranged sucks, but it sucks even more when something like Klepto can make that feeling get amped up to 11.

Too bad that isn’t going to work. Because supports are now being fucked for it.

IlluminatraFeb 18, 20195 votes

If you think kennen/Quinn into any melee top has been “taken into account by riot” , you’re a fucking liar and or are ignorant as Fuck.

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

If you think kennen/Quinn into any melee top has been “taken into account by riot” , you’re a fucking liar and or are ignorant as Fuck.

No. They were made without top in mind. And go ahead. Take Quinn adc. See how fast you get fucked. Take kennen back mid. See how fast any ad assassin cucks you.

And again. If you ever get on top of them, they are fucked. Bruisers are not beatable when they get in range, so it shouldn’t be easy for them to get in range.

LTK KoRoFeb 19, 20192 votes

Bruisers are not beatable when they get in range

every bruiser which isn't a hypercarry (for example: hypercarry bruisers Fiora Jax MAYBE Camille not hypercarry bruisers: Garen Kled Hecarim JarvanIV Darius Gragas Olaf ) loses vs adcs after 3 items in 1 vs 1 right now. ADCs with Legend bloodline+overheal+ item 3046 item 3031 item 3072 item 3086 -item can facetank most of "normal" bruisers. Bruisers like Olaf could win duels if said duels were starting in melee range. But they never do. Right now Olaf can be killed by ADC while Olaf is running at him

Shiroe OkazakiFeb 18, 20194 votes

Its not that their always broken. It just sucks fighting against when you melee. cause if you cant get on top of them they normally kill you. unless your a tank.

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-18T19:47:28.858+0000)

Its not that their always broken. It just sucks fighting against when you melee. cause if you cant get on top of them they normally kill you. unless your a tank.

And that’s the trade off that you took. By locking in a melee champion, you are trading range for more powerful abilities, passives and raw stats. As well as better items.

I mean, I’m sure someone like Vayne or varus would kill to have a Darius passive. Or a garen passive.

NyarlathοtepFeb 18, 20191 votes

you are trading range for more powerful abilities, passives and raw stats.

Are you implying that ranged champs have better? LEL. If you look each ability objectively you will see that (with some exceptions) every single one of them is more or less equally good.

Vayne or varus

No they wouldnt. They already have their own steroids. Vayne has her ulti and true dmg and varus has his w and passive.

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Are you implying that ranged champs have better? LEL. If you look each ability objectively you will see that (with some exceptions) every single one of them is more or less equally good.

No they wouldnt. They already have their own steroids. Vayne has her ulti and true dmg and varus has his w and passive.

No. They aren’t. Let’s look at garen q compared to a Vayne q. Oh look. Garens has a ms steroid that will get him further than Vayne a tumble, and does more damage, and has cc applied to it. Hmmmmmm.

Oh oh oh. I got one. I got one. Compare jinx’s kit to Irelia. I’m sure jinx would KILL to have a stun that is relatively easy to hit compared to a root, that is entirely avoidable, and takes ages to arm.

Here. I’ll throw in another one. An extremely low impact one. I’m sure KOGMAW would kill for mundo’s passive.

So no. Their abilities and passives are not even close to equal in power. Compare post gutting Irelia to Lucien and try and tell me they are both equally treated in their abilities. Irelia gets empowered autos Unconditional, repeatable mobility A stun A ms steroid An as steroid A disarm Damage reduction Cc immunity Sustain More damage than any champion can ever deal with Conquerer abuse And gets to be tanky.

What does Lucien get? A non repeatable dash A pseudo as steroid in his passive A ms steroid on hit High damage output That’s it.

I’m comparing a op champion to another op champion. Lucien trades ALLLLLLLL that stuff Irelia has over him, for auto attack range.

So no. Champion abilities are not made equal. Range is accounted for in their “power budget”

NyarlathοtepFeb 18, 2019

Did you conveniantly avoid me saying with some exceptions?

Compare jinx’s kit to Irelia. I’m sure jinx would KILL to have a stun that is relatively easy to hit compared to a root, that is entirely avoidable, and takes ages to arm.

Irelia's stun is easy to land? Wat? Also jinx's e also knocks down enemies so no dashing over it.

Unconditional, repeatable mobility

Irelia unconditional mobility? ??????? Its CONDITIONAL because she needs both a target AND a mark so she can use it again. An example of unconditional repeatable mobility is riven's.

A ms steroid

Irelia?

A disarm

You forgot to list that you actually have to come in contact for it to disarm you.

Damage reduction

Well she is melee.

Cc immunity

During said cc immunity she cant take any other actions besides cancelling it.

Sustain

Hahahahahahaha.

More damage than any champion can ever deal with

Jax, vayne, darius, zed, yi, kog, jinx, veigar, karthus, and others would like to know your location.

Conquerer abuse

Conq is busted thats all.

And gets to be tanky.

This is a byproduct of riot and her laziness at making new items SPECIFICALLY for each role. Like WTF do you want her to buy, critical strike? Atk speed? Ad?

A non repeatable dash

Said dash is also unconditional, and reduces its cd when he lands his passive. Early on it has a high cd but later on he becomes extremely mobile WITHOUT REQUIRING ANY TARGET.

A pseudo as steroid in his passive

Not quite sure whats your point.

A ms steroid on hit

Which further amplifies his kiting potential.

That’s it.

Yep. But do you know why? Because by the end of the day they serve different roles. Lucian is adc. Adcs are all about DAMAGE. When i said "If you look each ability objectively you will see that (with some exceptions) every single one of them is more or less equally good." I implied in respect to their respective role.

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Did you conveniantly avoid me saying with some exceptions?

Irelia's stun is easy to land? Wat? Also jinx's e also knocks down enemies so no dashing over it.

Irelia unconditional mobility? ??????? Its CONDITIONAL because she needs both a target AND a mark so she can use it again. An example of unconditional repeatable mobility is riven's.

Irelia?

You forgot to list that you actually have to come in contact for it to disarm you.

Well she is melee.

During said cc immunity she cant take any other actions besides cancelling it.

Hahahahahahaha.

Jax, vayne, darius, zed, yi, kog, jinx, veigar, karthus, and others would like to know your location.

Conq is busted thats all.

This is a byproduct of riot and her laziness at making new items SPECIFICALLY for each role. Like WTF do you want her to buy, critical strike? Atk speed? Ad?

Said dash is also unconditional, and reduces its cd when he lands his passive. Early on it has a high cd but later on he becomes extremely mobile WITHOUT REQUIRING ANY TARGET.

Not quite sure whats your point.

Which further amplifies his kiting potential.

Yep. But do you know why? Because by the end of the day they serve different roles. Lucian is adc. Adcs are all about DAMAGE. When i said "If you look each ability objectively you will see that (with some exceptions) every single one of them is more or less equally good." I implied in respect to their respective role.

Congrats on flat out ignoring all The points being made. Point being Irelia has strictly more than Lucien. Both are considered s tier op. And SHE HAS MORE THAN HIM. LIke ALOT more than him. And fine she has a condition on her mobility. But it also deals damage, applies onhit effects and HEALS HER. And Lucien requires items for his e to be on a low cooldown. Irelia doesn’t.

NyarlathοtepFeb 19, 2019

Point being Irelia has strictly more than Lucien.

The facepalms are strong with this one. Irelia has more because SHE IS NOT AN ADC.

But it also deals damage, applies onhit effects and HEALS HER

Actually, before sheen her q deals almost no damage. And the healing becomes something worth mentioning during midgame.

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The facepalms are strong with this one. Irelia has more because SHE IS NOT AN ADC.

Actually, before sheen her q deals almost no damage. And the healing becomes something worth mentioning during midgame.

Making irrelevant points I see.

xDogMeatxFeb 18, 20191 votes

you mean ap malphite XD aftershock (wait for granite shield) starting zhonyas/rod of ages. then go ap assassin from there with cdr runes

SaiannaFeb 18, 20194 votes

Riot was favourizing ADCs for so long, that it got tiresome. At some point each team had up to 3 ADCs and it worked.

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Riot was favourizing ADCs for so long, that it got tiresome. At some point each team had up to 3 ADCs and it worked.

Triple Adc comps litteraly happened one time. And that was the adc rework. Any time an Adc every steps foot out of the botlane riot guts them into the dirt. Lucien mid? Ez jungle? Ez mid? Caitlyn top? Kogmaw mid?

All got gutted for stepping foot out of botlane.

SaiannaFeb 18, 20193 votes

Cherry-picking are we?

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Cherry-picking are we?

That’s not really cherry picking? Those are all instances of Adc going anywhere but botlane and getting gutted for it. Lul

SaiannaFeb 19, 20194 votes

You came and asked why lots of people dislikes ADCs. I told you one of many reasons and you decided to argue.

I don't really care tbh. ADCs are obnoxious. Their egos are annoying. They are demanding and dare you KS them. You can leave the game, because those people will do everything to punish you for the ks.

Riot blatantly favouriozes them. You know what happend when we had tank update? Nerf tanks and tank items. Assassin update? Items got stronger (cause adc can use 'em too) but assassins were pretty much wrecked. YES. I know what you'll say "but now they are strong and stuff". That's Riot and their crappy balance for you. Then we had MAGE update. You know what happend? Items nerfed or reworked for supports. Mages nerfed or reworked for supports. And finally ADC update (which was the very first major update). Better items, far overbuffed ADCs, as if whoever made those changes didn't know the words "nerf" and "enough".

You know what happend when Riot implemented Liandry? Every champion the item could be used, like teemo, was nerfed by exactly as much damage as liandry added. Now they are forced to use it. You know what happend when AD items went from overall 60-70 per item to 80+? Nothing. No nerfs.

The last nerf ADCs, as a group, received the crit nerf.. Well, not even month after and there we have compensation buffs spilling out of Riots arse.

You know what veigar received as compensation buff with his rework? A nerf.

When Vayne was far overbearing and she could have 100-0 you within 2 hits, you know what happend? -3AD at level 18.

You know what happend when Karthus got just tiny tad above the average? -20% on ultimate. Not that you have plethora of ITEMS to build to defend yourself. Nah. ADCs don't build against someone. They go full glass cannon and if they die just tad too often, you know who's to blame? Support OR the champion that killed the ADC.

Sure you can find few champions from every group that is Riots fav and no matter what stays relevant (ahri, lee, yasuo, all ADCs, maybe kha?) but Riot gives half an ounce of crap when it comes to nerf whatever can kill ADCs. They just go at it, as if their family was on the line.

I dislike ADCs and I will dislike them for as long as Riots attitude won't change. That is... Never.

Edit: also forgot to mention, how ADCs steal items from other groups. I know this happens in every class with some success or another, but here Riot went ahead and actually made sure that "this item right here is for ADCs from now on". Runaan was one of few examples. It used to be good item for any ranged champion that used AA. Now? Either you are ADC or some stats like crit will waste.

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You came and asked why lots of people dislikes ADCs. I told you one of many reasons and you decided to argue.

I don't really care tbh. ADCs are obnoxious. Their egos are annoying. They are demanding and dare you KS them. You can leave the game, because those people will do everything to punish you for the ks.

Riot blatantly favouriozes them. You know what happend when we had tank update? Nerf tanks and tank items. Assassin update? Items got stronger (cause adc can use 'em too) but assassins were pretty much wrecked. YES. I know what you'll say "but now they are strong and stuff". That's Riot and their crappy balance for you. Then we had MAGE update. You know what happend? Items nerfed or reworked for supports. Mages nerfed or reworked for supports. And finally ADC update (which was the very first major update). Better items, far overbuffed ADCs, as if whoever made those changes didn't know the words "nerf" and "enough".

You know what happend when Riot implemented Liandry? Every champion the item could be used, like teemo, was nerfed by exactly as much damage as liandry added. Now they are forced to use it. You know what happend when AD items went from overall 60-70 per item to 80+? Nothing. No nerfs.

The last nerf ADCs, as a group, received the crit nerf.. Well, not even month after and there we have compensation buffs spilling out of Riots arse.

You know what veigar received as compensation buff with his rework? A nerf.

When Vayne was far overbearing and she could have 100-0 you within 2 hits, you know what happend? -3AD at level 18.

You know what happend when Karthus got just tiny tad above the average? -20% on ultimate. Not that you have plethora of ITEMS to build to defend yourself. Nah. ADCs don't build against someone. They go full glass cannon and if they die just tad too often, you know who's to blame? Support OR the champion that killed the ADC.

Sure you can find few champions from every group that is Riots fav and no matter what stays relevant (ahri, lee, yasuo, all ADCs, maybe kha?) but Riot gives half an ounce of crap when it comes to nerf whatever can kill ADCs. They just go at it, as if their family was on the line.

I dislike ADCs and I will dislike them for as long as Riots attitude won't change. That is... Never.

Edit: also forgot to mention, how ADCs steal items from other groups. I know this happens in every class with some success or another, but here Riot went ahead and actually made sure that "this item right here is for ADCs from now on". Runaan was one of few examples. It used to be good item for any ranged champion that used AA. Now? Either you are ADC or some stats like crit will waste.

Incorrect. Read my post one more time and get back to me.

SaiannaFeb 19, 20191 votes

You asked why there's hate train on ADCs. I wrote you why. From the looks of it, in each post you write you defend them. So.. What gives? We have different experiences I guess.

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You asked why there's hate train on ADCs. I wrote you why. From the looks of it, in each post you write you defend them. So.. What gives? We have different experiences I guess.

sigh not once in my original post did I say adc. I said ranged champions.

As for defending adc, I have counter arguments when people mentioned an adc.

SaiannaFeb 19, 20191 votes

Tbh I just though you don't know exact word for ADC, so you gone with something alike.

But ranged champions? The group is so broad you can even count in minions in it.

Do you mean mages aswell? Cause they hardly use their range tbh

If ADC, then you got my reply. What else... Who else.. Non ADC-rangeds like.. Uh.. On-hit champions? They were already destroyed by Riot pretty much.

Really, there's hardly anyone to talk about "ranged champions" other than ADC.

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tbh I just though you don't know exact word for ADC, so you gone with something alike.

But ranged champions? The group is so broad you can even count in minions in it.

Do you mean mages aswell? Cause they hardly use their range tbh

If ADC, then you got my reply. What else... Who else.. Non ADC-rangeds like.. Uh.. On-hit champions? They were already destroyed by Riot pretty much.

Really, there's hardly anyone to talk about "ranged champions" other than ADC.

Like I said. The boards seem to despise any champion with more than 200 range. Mage, adc, Rakan. Doesn’t matter. They just despise the fuck out of them.

SaiannaFeb 19, 20191 votes

That's not true. Or rather, for as long as I sit here on boards I don't see people hate on anything with range 200+. ADCs? Sure, i'm one of the haters. But mages? At best people just snicker about huhu "mage circlejerk hates on adc".

There obviously are some "nerf X/Y/Z" threads but usually it's not because of their AA range, but other reasons like how safe they play or how little risks they have etc. Sure AA argument can be brought in those threads, but it's not exactly the reason.

Minimac2000Feb 19, 20194 votes

Ezreal jungle was meta and encouraged for over 3 months and it was quite cancerous iirc lol

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ezreal jungle was meta and encouraged for over 3 months and it was quite cancerous iirc lol

He was like that for 2 patches. Before getting his passive gutted.

Minimac2000Feb 19, 20192 votes

Uh, no it was actually about 3 months and his passive didn't get gutted, his q just got changed back to an acceptable ad level instead of the 1.5 *ad it was when it was meta

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Uh, no it was actually about 3 months and his passive didn't get gutted, his q just got changed back to an acceptable ad level instead of the 1.5 *ad it was when it was meta

You are just wrong. It saw 1 week of pro play. And was gutted because of it. And the passive got cut as part of that nerf because it allowed him to clear camps way faster than he should have with machete. Changing the bonus ad ratio on his q wouldn’t have changed jungle Ezreal because he was an early duelist abusing red buff and red smite. Neither of which granted ad.

NetorareFeb 18, 20194 votes

Hey, people can play ranged champs wherever they like except top, because no one wants to fucking deal with a ranged on top its stupid as shit. Toplane should a melee only lane, fuck ranged toplaners. Diversity should not exist in league because it's bad.

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Hey, people can play ranged champs wherever they like except top, because no one wants to fucking deal with a ranged on top its stupid as shit. Toplane should a melee only lane, fuck ranged toplaners. Diversity should not exist in league because it's bad.

Let me brush that salt off your shoulder. Also get your melees out of my Botlane.

Minimac2000Feb 19, 20192 votes

I mean who plays a melee bot? I mean sure you can name Yasuo but he's broken and played everywhere. Anyone else? Mordekaiser was made for botlane and he cant even be played there bc he's melee lol No. Maybe supports if you are counting them, so Leo, alistar tahm... maybe and maybe a few hook champs, if we are talking about really melee just play a mage into any of them ez lane, ez game

AsudFeb 19, 20194 votes

Because it's allowed for the ranged champions to come in the toplane and destroy every game for normal toplaners who just want a fair and skillful duel. Ranged top should have never became a thing. Any man who actually picks ranged top should be sued for violating human rights. And the he should sue riot for being able to pick ranged top. There should be some kind of debuff on top lane minions before 10 minutes. That if you arent fighter or tank you get like 25% XP from them. Good luck playing cancer picks then. League fixed ez. If necessary do it for other lanes too so mages dont go bot

HammermancerFeb 18, 20193 votes

I 1trick jayce top

smd boards

LTK KoRoFeb 19, 20191 votes

i first read your nickname as hammercancer

it would be more fitting probably

3ternalkarmaFeb 18, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-18T18:51:45.625+0000)

Can anyone please explain to me the hate boner everyone on here seems to have for any champion with more than 200 range?

Are you all just riding the hashinshin train?

I get it, range is a advantage, but riot takes it into account when designing champion kits. And for proof of this, let’s look at garen. Imagine his kit, but on a ranged champion. So all of his abilities are at, we’ll say 550 range. That would be broken af. So riot doesn’t do that.

So why the hell it is, that any ranged champion ever has to be sub 50% winrate or every loses their god damn minds?

Melee champions are given more power into all their abilities and their stats and growths, as well as given the best items in the game, at the cost of range.

well lets put it this way range in itself is fine then you look at Lucian who can dash every 3-4 seconds on top if it...

KelgFeb 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Not a Neeko Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-18T19:05:04.412+0000)

well lets put it this way range in itself is fine then you look at Lucian who can dash every 3-4 seconds on top if it...

this (don't forget Jhin who runs at 300mph)

The thigh guyFeb 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

this (don't forget Jhin who runs at 300mph)

Jhin ill agree is just a stupid champions. But he is super squishy. Any time you get on top of him, he is dead. There’s no question. He dies.

LTK KoRoFeb 19, 20191 votes

but you usually can't get on top of him. Especially when he have a peelbitch around Janna Lulu Soraka Braum

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T09:00:59.167+0000)

but you usually can't get on top of him. Especially when he have a peelbitch around

Then that’s smart team comp building. Was gnarvan op? No because it required two specific picks.

How about alistar kalista, is that op because they get a lot of cc? No because it take two specific picks.

How about Kayle, zilean and aatrox with a ga?

Things that require two specific picks are not generally op, that’s just drafting smart and using synergy.

LTK KoRoFeb 19, 20191 votes

there's a difference in combos like gnarvan, galio+camille or kindred+zilean and any hypercarry+any peelbitch. If you're scared about enemy comp going for the gnarvan, you just ban gnar or jarvan and it's fine. How im supposed to ban all the adc hypercarries and enchanters?

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T20:20:32.357+0000)

there's a difference in combos like gnarvan, galio+camille or kindred+zilean and any hypercarry+any peelbitch. If you're scared about enemy comp going for the gnarvan, you just ban gnar or jarvan and it's fine. How im supposed to ban all the adc hypercarries and enchanters?

Again. The lists are endless for champion combos. :/ any cc mage paired with any other cc mage.

Nautilus and any burst champion

Wu Kong and orianna.

You can’t ban every champion combo in the game. :/

Irelia BotFeb 19, 20192 votes

Range is such an over powered stat that melee have to be given much higher base stats and often time mobility just to compete.

Go play Darius against a top lane Caitlyn in a 1v1. You will get poked a ton just trying to farm and your only option is to literally all in her. Same story with teemo, Kennen, Quinn and Lucian who I have seen top countless times and if you are not a highly mobile melee you are going to be hating laning phase.

The thigh guyFeb 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-02-19T00:34:30.716+0000)

Range is such an over powered stat that melee have to be given much higher base stats and often time mobility just to compete.

And they are given way more than they should be in base stats and mobility. Hell they even get handed the best items and best rune in the game.

And ranged champions get penalized for building certain items and taking just about any rune.

So considering the massive drawbacks to range in those forms I think they are more than even, if not a little in favor of melee.

LTK KoRoFeb 19, 20191 votes

melees need better items than ranged scum just to be able to compete with them. Also we all remember than when melees get a good item which isn't melee locked then rangeds use it much better than them item 3053

PoskeFeb 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-18T18:51:45.625+0000)

Can anyone please explain to me the hate boner everyone on here seems to have for any champion with more than 200 range?

Ugh I can answer you that but it would take hours as there are so many reasons

Increasing all champion movement speed in idk season 4 or so made it so that ranged champions reach towers faster (Its a net buff for ranged champs) Tower platings are incredibly biased towards Range Buffed towers are incredibly biased towards Range Ranged champions are better lane bullies than lane bully champions are Range in general scales better with items. This is why Kindred, Graves and many other junglers are tier 1-0 There are so many fking items which slow the champions down which hurst melee champions more / slow abilities

There are so many fking reasons well known and unknown but here have some