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When is the Community Going to Finally Speak up about Blitzcrank?

Sugar Momma··78 votes·10,158 views
Champion.gg - Blitzcrank Support Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

Let me start off by saying this is not a QQ thread. I don't hate Blitzcrank ( I actually think he's adorable).

As a support main, I hate talking about certain supports that need to be nerfed. I've played them all, and I love it when supports are powerful and impactful in the game.

Except when they are powerful at the expense of every other support/champion Blitzcrank .

This is not a QQ thread. I just feel like people have a fear of talking about Blitz's power level because they feel like if they lost to Blitz it means THEY played badly. People say "just learn to dodge hook noob." Alright, if it's that easy to beat Blitzcrank, how do you explain that his win rate in Platinum elo and higher is HIGHER than in lower divisions?

Not only is his win rate the highest of all supports, but he has no losing matchups at all.

Not a single ADC/support can consistently manage to have a win rate of 50 percent or higher against Blitz (Sivir and Leona are the only two that come close; sometimes they reach 50 percent).

Riot, this really is an issue that needs to be addressed. Blitz is killing not only champion diversity (why pick Annie or Brand or Karma or Janna or Nami or Soraka or Sona or Zilean or Zyra or Lulu if Blitz is open? If you pick any of these supports you are going into lane at an automatic disadvantage if they pick blitz) but Blitz is killing STRATEGIC diversity bot lane as well. His presence automatically makes bot lane an all-or-nothing full kill lane situation, and it gets old very fast.

I don't know precisely what about Blitzcrank should be nerfed. Perhaps make his grab travel time slightly longer? Make his W give less movement speed and/or attack speed? Make his ult do less damage? Nerf the CD on his passive? Have his passive actually consume mana?

Just throwing ideas out there. Again, this is not a QQ thread, and I don't think Blitzcrank should get a Veigar or Kassadin treatment, but please, Riot, reduce his power level a bit.

227 Comments

The5lacker57 votes

Blitz has an old, bad, all-or-nothing, one-trick-pony kit. All he can do is grab someone, fist them, and disable them for a solid three seconds. Which...is also the only thing he can do other than jog around like a pudgy refrigerator in a bad prank call.

Speaking of which, the thing that bugs me most about Blitz isn't the hook or the fist (Though 100% AD damage and a knockup on a potentially 5 second cooldown is ludicrous.) My problem with Blitz is the 8 second 32% MS buff that makes chasing him to punish him for being out of position impossible. People always complain about dashes, but I'd much rather chase a Riven than a Blitz. At least a Riven will have to burn her dashes to damage you in the fight.

DeusVult2 votes

I agree with you, but also don't agree

Blitz can do more than pull, grab and silence you in lane

He can also zone like a mother fucker just for being there, he can run in, knock up and then pull you as you try to escape

He isn't OP, nor is his Q too strong; any number of supports can beat him, if played well. Thresh Leona Lulu Karma Velkoz Alistar Annie Brand Soraka etc

its a player by player matchup. if he comes to lane and asserts his dominance before you even hit level 2, then its your fault and you deserve to live in fear of the hand, but if you play smart, you can play around blitz strengths and weaknesses and punish him for his high mana costs and total lack of sustain.

Blitz is a total pubstomper but is completely balanced in any league that is gold 5 and above

Ethri3 votes

{quoted} He isn't OP, nor is his Q too strong; any number of supports can beat him, if played well. Thresh Leona Lulu Karma Velkoz Alistar Annie Brand Soraka etc

its a player by player matchup. if he comes to lane and asserts his dominance before you even hit level 2, then its your fault and you deserve to live in fear of the hand, but if you play smart, you can play around blitz strengths and weaknesses and punish him for his high mana costs and total lack of sustain.

Blitz is a total pubstomper but is completely balanced in any league that is gold 5 and above

First off, I don't think lane phase is the best phase for Blitzcrank. I have played against him plenty of times as Lulu and I can usually win the match up assuming there is no pressure bot. However, having no pressure bot lane is very unrealistic and Blitzcrank is very good at saving his skills to assist with ganks.

After lane phase (or roaming during lane phase), is when Blitzcrank shines. His pick potential is insanely high. Also, I think you missed the point where his highest win rate is actually ABOVE gold 5. Hence he is not simply a pub stomper.

WolfChases25 votes

I hate playing against Blitz...Especially if I my lane is pushed and he is in the bush that we can't ward because he'll pull us and than there's situation when:

-Enemy ADC freezes the lane -Enemy Blitzkrank is waiting in the bush near our turret -If someone (me or my supp) tries to ward it, he'll get pulled and potentially killed

= Enemy ADC gets the free fucking farm in that kind of situation which happens almost every single time I am playing against Blitz.

JC DarkOmen6 votes

then don't push in the first place, ward the river and stay on that side of the creep wave, and... wait, you can't ward a bush without getting in grab range? just walk into the minion wave and ward the very outside of the bush. the minion will get pulled and you can punish blitz for his mistake. i bait blitz pulls for fun

SmokingPuffin11 votes

Blitz being amazing right now is just a function of how the support role has moved entirely to kill lanes. Poke supports that used to do well against Blitz now don't have any realistic prospect of poking through his 4 biscuits and relic.

I used to feel like Sona versus Blitz is a skill matchup. Now I feel like it's basically hopeless for Sona. Part of that is Sona just never stops getting nerfed, but most of it is the support item meta.

I don't buy the "no bad matchups" thing. I feel like Leona versus Blitz is basically a free win.

Martyrofsand4 votes

{quoted}

Blitz being amazing right now is just a function of how the support role has moved entirely to kill lanes. Poke supports that used to do well against Blitz now don't have any realistic prospect of poking through his 4 biscuits and relic.

I used to feel like Sona versus Blitz is a skill matchup. Now I feel like it's basically hopeless for Sona. Part of that is Sona just never stops getting nerfed, but most of it is the support item meta.

I don't buy the "no bad matchups" thing. I feel like Leona versus Blitz is basically a free win.

Really? Because Sona is who I usually pick when facing a blitz. All I do is play "ring around the minions" when blitz tries to get me and AA him while doing so. Sure he eventually gets to me but by that time I and my ADC have popped his passive and an exhaust on his ADC will ensure we kill him before they ever kill us. TBH I can't rememeber the last time I lost to a blitz.

Hell Week10 votes

just dodge his q

Sugar Momma37 votes

Easier said than done.

His win rate is 57 percent now in Platinum Elo and higher. You may get better at dodging, but Blitz gets better at pulling

SpongebobIsLife14 votes

good point.

Verxint21 votes

Don't forget, a paitent blitz will just press E and run up in your general direction, and now you have no choice but to run around like a crazy person. Then, because you can't run in a straight line, he has an easy time getting into melee range of you, fisting you, and pulling you anyway. And even if he somehow doesn't get into fist range, or misses his hook, he still zones you for the entire duration of the W. He doesn't actually have to land a hook, the simple fact that you have to respect the potential hook makes him powerful. It's the fact that he forces you to make all of these decisions and actions around him, while in return all he did is run around and maybe spam laugh.

Fun fact: Blitzcrank's W used to cause him to be slowed after it's duration.

Fed by Snu Snu8 votes

The problem isn't that blitzcrank is over the top. Let me elaborate.

The problem is that Blitz no longer has any many picks to punish him for pulling them. With tanks being out of the way, there's only Maokai and Alistar to pull now that would result in severe punishment.

Back in the day, a blitz would have 3 out of 5 targets available to pull. Pull the other 2 and you just freely initiated for THEM instead of your team. Nowadays that doesn't matter, because absolutely everything pulled (except for the 2 already mentioned) will be burst down within the CC sequence followed.

Which means that Blitz can now be trigger happy and profit from it.

ProfDrDeath4 votes

With the (glorious) return of tank junglers, this might not be as true anymore as it used to be.

Yes, pull the Amumu, please. Or Sejuani. Or Cho. Or Skarner. Or Volibear.

lB2kGRlc8y2 votes

Yea, so many old champions were gg's if they were hooked, like amumu, alistar, or rammus. Now theres no punsihment for him landing a hook, the issue is with the amount of mobility whores that flood the games, landing the hook in the first place has become way harder. Thats why most blitz's now opt to bumrush and punch rather than hooking first.

YossarianSensei7 votes

Nigga runs too fking fast

It'd be ok if you just had to dodge the hook, but his catching potential is too damn high with his movespeed, which is probably why his win rate is higher in Plat+ ELO where supports will know how to capitalize on any miss-positioning.

Waawee7 votes

I'd rather face blitz over the abomination of a support known as thresh.

Omnem Occido6 votes

They just need to re-buff tank supports. That's all. Give Alistar a nice little buff, give Leo a nice buff. Troll crank has a tough time when people want to be in his face. That, or they rework him. Maybe drop his q for an ability that buffs an ally, or debuffs the enemy.

Sammystorm2 votes

This isn't particularly true. It potentially makes it harder for him in laning but doesn't really change his presence. blitz can at any point threaten q which will force the adc to scramble. Which in turn makes it quite a bit harder for the tank to bodyblock that champ.

Omnem Occido3 votes

The problem with Blitz is not having to dodge his annoying skillshot, it's having him run up on you with his W, then he E's you and pulls you for shits and giggles while you are cc locked for 3 seconds. Alistar is the best against him. If he tries to chase your adc, you headbutt him back to behind his minion wave. If he grabs your adc, you get free reign to rush his adc. Even as Leo: the second he tries to run out and catch your adc, you e+q him to hold him still while he takes damage he can't trade back for. If he grabs the adc, you go ham on their adc. Alistar has the added bonus of being able to heal up in between engages, so if Blitz does land a grab, all you have to do is make sure their adc doesn't get any damage off on your adc by pushing them back and knocking them up, and healing once your ally has freed themselves of Blitz.

tempname95212 votes

Leona does NOT need a buff. Holee shit. She's like the best support in the game. The massive lockdown and damage buff she gives her team is insane, and she has the engage potential of a malphite, while providing much more.

I do agree that Alistar needs a buff though. Poor cow.

Sona Ping5 votes

"I believe that some vague win-rate statistic contains multiple direct, concrete, proofs of ideas that all support the argument of mine that I have already decided the outcome of."

Do you see the problem yet?

Sugar Momma23 votes

It's not a "vague" win rate statistic. His win rates are the highest for all supports no matter which website you look at, and it has been that way since Janna was nerfed (though it was still high even before that; Janna was just high as well).

Sona Ping4 votes

Of course it is. If you still believe it's not, then answer me these:

The link you have provided says Blitz has a win rate of 56.18%. What does that mean? How is it materially different than a win rate of 54.29%? What does this win rate say about the base damage of his E at level 3?

Sugar Momma22 votes

It's the fact that no champion, ADC or support, has a winning rate against him.

That means Blitzcrank wins over half of games against every single champion he can face, which speaks to a balance problem with that champion.

Your analogy doesn't make much statistical sense, so I can't speak to an answer regarding that.

Sona Ping3 votes

That not even what an analogy is!

The point that you are failing to notice flying in a holding pattern over your head is that there are no concrete ideas or direct links that this point of data provides. You have come to a conclusion before hand and have just decided this supports your idea. See also: "Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy".

Think about it and an answer to my previous three questions. I'll wait.

The5lacker19 votes

How's this for concrete: Blitzcrank wins more than he loses. Across all skill levels, in all matchups, Blitzcrank wins more than he loses.

Zenthon Prime1 votes

You know who else has had a winrate above 55% for ages? Heimer. Better nerf Heimer.

But seriously, winrates are essentially meaningless unless a champions breaks ~58% or goes below ~44%.

Loken Stoneheart16 votes

{quoted}

You know who else has had a winrate above 55% for ages? Heimer. Better nerf Heimer.

But seriously, winrates are essentially meaningless unless a champions breaks ~58% or goes below ~44%.

8% above, or 6% below? Those are some very, very, very arbitrary numbers you pulled outta your hat there. Convenient to bump the upper range of the numbers to 8% instead of 6% like the lower range so that Blitz doesn't hit your criteria though.

Sammystorm9 votes

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-winrate&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked

Blitzcrank has a 54.5% win rate and a 24.1% pick rate according to lolking. now that is something to talk about. When a champion is played roughly in 1 out of every 5 games and wins that much there is potentially a problem because it means that more than just blitz "mains" are very successful with him. Low pick rates usually have a high win rate but with blitz he has both which is a problem.

Another stat: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=bottom-synergy&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked the only bottom lane synergy he does less than good with is trist, ez, and twitch none of which are noticable below 50%. When you can pick a support and regardless of who you are laning with expect to win 50% of the time it does kill diversity and it does remove the thought process of what you should pick that is also best for your team. Whenever a champion is good in every combination it does limit diversity.

Raptamei3 votes

{quoted}

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-winrate&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked

Blitzcrank has a 54.5% win rate and a 24.1% pick rate according to lolking. now that is something to talk about. When a champion is played roughly in 1 out of every 5 games and wins that much there is potentially a problem because it means that more than just blitz "mains" are very successful with him. Low pick rates usually have a high win rate but with blitz he has both which is a problem.

The problem is that tank supports are useless. He's supposed to be countered by engage supports but Leona and Alistar both suck, Braum is the wrong kind of tank and unlike mages there are no bruisers that can viably be played as support.

And of course the required level of poke to dissuade him from starting a fight at will was deemed toxic.

Sammystorm7 votes

I wouldn't consider tank supports useless. They have some of the best early items for tanks and arguable the best gold per 5 support item. Tanks being useful or not isn't particularly relevant to blitz power level. The ability to zone with Blitz is quite substantial. The lane that least favored blitz were champions with good poke but that isn't really relevant right now in bot lane.

junglerboy1610 votes

Leona is actually a very strong, popular pick, the only difference between her and Blitz is that she has to go into a fight, where Blitz simply pulls somebody to him to fight, which is much, much safer.

Thresh Outta Fux5 votes

Alistar

Seriously. He's free if you follow them on youbook or facetube or whatever.

Leona Maokai Morgana Amumu Nautilus

These supports all have their own unique ways to best the iron golem.

Sugar Momma15 votes

Yet, none of them manage to win more than they lose against him.

Thresh Outta Fux3 votes

Let's say you've got a barrel of fish. Beat the barrel of fish with a hammer until all of the fish who can't land their hooks die off. All that's left is the best of the best fish.

You're wanting to nerf blitz because a small amount of players are incredibly skilled at utilizing him. It's like wanting to nerf Urgot because some players can utilize him. But, slightly less extreme.

Loken Stoneheart21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rentable Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tt8dTPOo,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-03-16T06:22:53.942+0000)

Let's say you've got a barrel of fish. Beat the barrel of fish with a hammer until all of the fish who can't land their hooks die off. All that's left is the best of the best fish.

You're wanting to nerf blitz because a small amount of players are incredibly skilled at utilizing him. It's like wanting to nerf Urgot because some players can utilize him. But, slightly less extreme.

He's picked 23% of the time. That is not a small number of skilled players earning that winrate. That isnt the 0.8-9% pickrate of the low popularity champs. That is one in every four games buddy.

bad arcade kitty3 votes

actually he got some mana nerfs to his q iirc and he provides little if you dodge his grabs

anyway i never have serious problems as janna vs blitz (i don't like leona that much)

femmé3 votes

i don't think you can nerf blitz without ruining him. Blitz is a very old and toxic design not even because all his power belongs to the Q it's that he can out run you then knock you up, silence and grab you while dealing pretty decent damage on his own also. His Q simply just has too much power, one Q WILL decide a teamfight and can win you the game.

Sugar Momma5 votes

He was balanced before; he can be balanced again. Riot doesn't have to nerf his Q, but they do have to decide that he is too strong compared to other supports atm.

youngjake934 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sugar Momma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tt8dTPOo,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-03-16T02:31:05.818+0000)

He was balanced before; he can be balanced again. Riot doesn't have to nerf his Q, but they do have to decide that he is too strong compared to other supports atm.

He was balanced before because there were a lot of supports that were actually strong. Blitz started creeping up in win rate as Thresh, Braum and Morgana were nerfed very hard. All three of these are very good picks into Blitz and were the only three supports picked for a while.

Imperial Japan3 votes

Ey, I went against a sivir+Morgana lane as blitzcrank. It was hell :n; also you could get banshies (idk how to spell it) veil

76Summers3 votes

its not blitzcrank... its the meta.... squishies everywhere...

TotalJerk3 votes

if you keep a minion between yourself and Blitz he becomes worthless during the laning phase.

Don't grab: Garen DariusLeona Amumu Nunu Trundle Yorick

Easily escapes: Ezreal Kassadin Shaco

Rescues your victim: Thresh Kalista

Avoids/negates grabs: Ahri Fiora Fizz Kalista MasterYi Shaco Sivir Tristana Tryndamere Vayne Vladimir MonkeyKing Yasuo ZedMorgana

Puts shit in your way: Elise Annie Heimerdinger Malzahar Yorick

Hard counter item: item 3102

Blitz's entire game depends on his Q, without it, he is useless, so either make sure he can't use it, or abuse that uselessness when he uses it and misses.

Sugar Momma8 votes

Until Blitzcrank learns that he can just run up to you with his W speed boost and knock you up if you decide to sit behind your minions.

Then he'll pull you :)

PalPlays3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sugar Momma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tt8dTPOo,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-03-16T02:16:39.155+0000)

Let me start off by saying this is not a QQ thread. I don't hate Blitzcrank ( I actually think he's adorable).

As a support main, I hate talking about certain supports that need to be nerfed. I've played them all, and I love it when supports are powerful and impactful in the game.

Except when they are powerful at the expense of every other support/champion Blitzcrank .

This is not a QQ thread. I just feel like people have a fear of talking about Blitz's power level because they feel like if they lost to Blitz it means THEY played badly. People say "just learn to dodge hook noob." Alright, if it's that easy to beat Blitzcrank, how do you explain that his win rate in Platinum elo and higher is HIGHER than in lower divisions?

Not only is his win rate the highest of all supports, but he has no losing matchups at all.

Not a single ADC/support can consistently manage to have a win rate of 50 percent or higher against Blitz (Sivir and Leona are the only two that come close; sometimes they reach 50 percent).

Riot, this really is an issue that needs to be addressed. Blitz is killing not only champion diversity (why pick Annie or Brand or Karma or Janna or Nami or Soraka or Sona or Zilean or Zyra or Lulu if Blitz is open? If you pick any of these supports you are going into lane at an automatic disadvantage if they pick blitz) but Blitz is killing STRATEGIC diversity bot lane as well. His presence automatically makes bot lane an all-or-nothing full kill lane situation, and it gets old very fast.

I don't know precisely what about Blitzcrank should be nerfed. Perhaps make his grab travel time slightly longer? Make his W give less movement speed and/or attack speed? Make his ult do less damage? Nerf the CD on his passive? Have his passive actually consume mana?

Just throwing ideas out there. Again, this is not a QQ thread, and I don't think Blitzcrank should get a Veigar or Kassadin treatment, but please, Riot, reduce his power level a bit.

I enjoy seeing Blitz MUCH more than Thresh. In my opinion Thresh is the death of diversity.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

Blitz isn't even picked that much for good reason, if you miss your Q then he is pretty much useless unless he decides to go all rambo and try to punch you in the face. In lane make sure there is always a ward in the brushes and never venture far from your turret without any minions and take advantage of him if he misses his Q. I rather deal with Blitz than something like Annie or Tresh that has more utility and annoying factor than a Blitz who has next to none if he misses his Q

McHaten2 votes

Most people say to just dodge his q, but its way more than that. A good blitz player can easily land a hook no problem even if someone is good at dodging. As a bot lane main, i can confirm this. The only way to really 100% to play around blitz is to prevent him from getting into position. He adds a ton of pressure on a lane, especially without a morgana, sivir.

Here is why. A good blitz will just run around the minion wave with w, get close, and q. The hit box is so wide on q that its almost impossible to dodge at that point unless the blitz just misses or the adc has a dash/flash up. The adc at that point has to just walk away from lane. in team fights, the ability to separate someone by a good distance from his/her team, knock them up, silence them, all while doing a ton of dmg if the build is right.

I think the best way to change blitz in theshort-run is to lower his q width by a bit, make his w ramp up to speed instead of instant speed, and maybe reduce his ult dmg (but i would change his e to ap%, instead of %ad on hit). I would change his q and w first because those are the main problems, especially since his q has an insanely low cooldown for having a HUGE hit area. I would chang eit to be about halfway between what is is now and nidalee q width.

FattyPainBringer2 votes

oh oh oh please narrow the width so it will be eaiser to reach between minons and yank you out by your toes from behind the minon wave. It would make reach arounds in lane so much eaiser. you guys have no idea how much that fat width saves you in lane

Guineasaurus Rex2 votes

give his grab a little longer range but make it so it grabs allies too

FattyPainBringer2 votes

actuly i would love to be able to grab allies with blitz's grab. I could save so many stupids from themselves

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