Will Vladimir's Q become a skillshot?

YumaS2Astral·Jan 25, 2016·19 votes·1,766 views

Everyone asking if Riot will remove his passive or his healing or even his W, then I am there just asking myself if Riot will do to the same thing they did to

Because I would really hate if Vlad's Q was changed into a skillshot. It may be a no counterplay skill but is still his most reliable damage skill. I think that reducing its damage or even removing the healing altogether is a better way to solve the problem than changing his Q into a skillshot. We don't need to make a champion more skill intensive just to balance him. Especially because we need point-click spells to deal with those hypermobile champions

42 Comments

I eat dragonsJan 25, 201624 votes

[deleted]

MiraweaveJan 25, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazeh Fruit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TqRLX9yA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-25T16:43:57.787+0000)

That's not possible.

He's not throwing something at them the projectile comes from the targeted enemy and flies back towards him.

It can't be a skillshot because he's not shooting anything.

They're removing the ability entirely and replacing it though.

He probably will have a skillshot.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20163 votes

{quoted}

They're removing the ability entirely and replacing it though.

He probably will have a skillshot.

They said they're changing it, not replacing it. They don't know what they're going to do yet.

Besides, in what way would healing via projectile make sense thematically for a hemomancer? And I'm pretty sure they said they don't want to make it a skillshot.

WarlockLawJan 25, 20161 votes

Calling it now: They are going to make it a skillshot. It will deal double/heal double vs champs. Numbers will get retuned. It will otherwise remain the same.

Cowgirl EdJan 25, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Calling it now: They are going to make it a skillshot. It will deal double/heal double vs champs. Numbers will get retuned. It will otherwise remain the same.

No way riot games pls

RalanrJan 25, 20166 votes

A no counter play skill being his most reliable damage skill sounds like a problem.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20164 votes

{quoted}

A no counter play skill being his most reliable damage skill sounds like a problem.

When he's severely short-ranged and has no CC as well as the skill itself having significant cast delay, no, its not really that much of a problem.

RalanrJan 25, 20162 votes

I apologize if I sound overly negative towards Vlad, I'll admit it's because I really hate fighting him and tend to just always lose lane against him (I know I'm suppose to dive him early to shut him down, but he always does it behind minions or close enough to his turret that he gets away from the trade at a higher health than I do). So I'm biased.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I apologize if I sound overly negative towards Vlad, I'll admit it's because I really hate fighting him and tend to just always lose lane against him (I know I'm suppose to dive him early to shut him down, but he always does it behind minions or close enough to his turret that he gets away from the trade at a higher health than I do). So I'm biased.

He needs to be moved towards mid-lane and away from top lane. I'll give you that. I play him almost exclusively mid, and I have more fun with it there than top. Top is always either dying repeatedly, afk farming, or having the enemy cowering under his turret until you dive him. Not a fun time as Vlad, IMO. Mid is holding on by the skin of your teeth until you get abyssal+revolver, where you can begin to bait their jungler into wasting time mid. Where you alone have enough objective control to stop an entire team from doing dragon (provided you aren't behind). Where you can invade the jungle and set the enemy back by making them base.

That's a good way to play Vlad, and its what I think he needs to be pushed towards while retaining the aspects of his current kit.

RalanrJan 25, 20161 votes

The less ranged top laners, the better imo. I would be happy to see Vladimir be more viable in mid than top.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The less ranged top laners, the better imo. I would be happy to see be more viable in mid than top.

He actually is more viable mid than top. People just play him top because they think mid is too hard. Top is easy if the enemy laner isn't aggressive.

Wota->abyssal is much, much better early-mid than Wota->Zhonya's. Especially with the cost increase to Zhonya's.

CatboyAsbelJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

When he's severely short-ranged and has no CC as well as the skill itself having significant cast delay, no, its not really that much of a problem.

no. Vlad is literally a broken champion that has to be absolutely gutted just for the game to function

Spizzle9000Jan 25, 20162 votes

Riiiiight. Could I get some statistics for this?

Dominick DestineJan 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

When he's severely short-ranged

Evelynn is severely short-ranged. Vladimir is not. He is medium ranged, maybe slightly below medium but certainly not "severely short-ranged".

WoonStruckJan 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TqRLX9yA,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2016-01-25T18:01:43.215+0000)

is severely short-ranged. Vladimir is not. He is medium ranged, maybe slightly below medium but certainly not "severely short-ranged".

Lol. You're entirely wrong. Eve is melee.

Vlad is severely short-ranged for a ranged character. The area of influence he has is shorter than Skarner's and many other melee characters as well.

Dominick DestineJan 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You're entirely wrong. Eve is melee.

Her autoattacks are melee, her spells are not... Ravage has greater range than melee, Hate Spike/Agony's Embrace even more than that. I don't want to check your stats because I already know what I will find.

Vlad is severely short-ranged for a ranged character.

Let me see if I can help you understand the basic game mechanics; Just because a character's autoattacks are ranged, doesn't mean their spells should automatically have long range. Evelynn is a primary AP character and has significantly shorter spell range than Vladimir . Vlad is medium range or at worst; below average range... Evelynn is severely low range.

It's really not that complicated.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TqRLX9yA,comment-id=00020000000200000000,timestamp=2016-01-25T18:12:50.176+0000)

Her autoattacks are melee, her spells are not... Ravage has greater range than melee, Hate Spike/Agony's Embrace even more than that. I don't want to check your stats because I already know what I will find.

Let me see if I can help you understand the basic game mechanics; Just because a character's autoattacks are ranged, doesn't mean their spells should automatically have long range. is a primary AP character and has significantly shorter spell range than . Vlad is medium range or at worst; below average range... Evelynn is severely low range.

It's really not that complicated.

We're not here to argue melee vs ranged. As a mage, Vlad has very short range.

Eve is not a mage. She may be played as an AP champion more often than not, but she's effectively a DPS assassin, whether building AD or AP.

And a side-note, eve is a terrible example to use as anything. She is a mess of a champion in every aspect. A better example would have been Pantheon.

Dominick DestineJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We're not here to argue melee vs ranged.

Then why did you bring it up, smarty?

Eve is not a mage.

I'd like to just leave an image macro laughing at your extremely poor understanding of basic game mechanics but that would not be appropriate, let me once again try to help you understand.

Evelynn was built from the ground up to be a stealth based AP assassin type character, this is why from conception she only had AP ratios, she was granted AD ratios after her first rework but they were far inferior to her AP ratios precisely because she was always a mage/assassin hybrid.

The bulk of her damage is magical regardless of how you build and this is how Riot intended for her to be.

Here is a website that shows a statistical break-down of her average damage (Magic at about 62%, 29% physical, 7% true). So tell me again how Evelynn is not a mage when literally all evidence in our disposal unequivocally tells us this. Scaling, character development and ability layout.

And a side-note, eve is a terrible example to use as anything. She is a mess of a champion in every aspect.

Making an assertion without qualifying it is the sign of someone that has no argument to present. A fool speaks with no substance behind his words... an intelligent man only speaks when he is certain reality reflects his outlook as it was reality that shaped it to begin with.

There's a big difference between a Diamond player and a Bronze player.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TqRLX9yA,comment-id=0002000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-25T18:30:54.005+0000)

Then why did you bring it up, smarty?

I'd like to just leave an image macro laughing at your extremely poor understanding of basic game mechanics but that would not be appropriate, let me once again try to help you understand.

Evelynn was built from the ground up to be a stealth based AP assassin type character, this is why from conception she only had AP ratios, she was granted AD ratios after her first rework but they were far inferior to her AP ratios precisely because she was always a mage/assassin hybrid.

The bulk of her damage is magical regardless of how you build and this is how Riot intended for her to be.

Here is a website that shows a statistical break-down of her average damage (#1 Magic at about 62%, 29% physical, 7% true). So tell me again how Evelynn is not a mage when literally all evidence in our disposal unequivocally tells us this.

Making an assertion without qualifying it is the sign of someone that has no argument to present. A fool speaks with no substance behind his words... an intelligent man only speaks when he is certain reality reflects his outlook as it was reality that shaped it to begin with.

There's a big difference between a Diamond player and a Bronze player.

So your boner for eve allows you to make assumptions about my rank and claim superiority for it, when EVERYONE thinks Eve is a mess of a champion. Dealing magic damage doesn't make someone a mage as much as dealing physical damage doesn't make them an ADC.

Are you calling Darius an ADC now?

No?

Its about the gameplay, not the damage type. AP assassin =/= mage. Riot wants classifications to be diverse.

Besides, that nearly 30% physical damage really screams mage when most actual mages have less than 5% physical damage.

Dominick DestineJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So your boner for eve allows you to make assumptions about my rank and claim superiority for it

Sigh.... ok then let's get into it since you are going that far. http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/woonstruck Bronze level statistics. Inexperienced.

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/dominick%20destine Platinum S6, Diamond S5. Diamond level statistics. Extremely experienced.

when EVERYONE thinksI Eve is a mess of a champion.

Speak only for yourself. You do not represent anyone.

Dealing magic damage doesn't make someone a mage as much as dealing physical damage doesn't make them an ADC.

That is correct. However Evelynn is specifically a Mage/Assassin with some hybrid scaling and was built with that intent from the beginning.

Are you calling Darius an ADC now?

Flimsy strawman argument/red herring/non sequitur.

Its about the gameplay, not the damage type. AP assassin =/= mage.

Being a mage does not disqualify one from being an assassin.

Besides, that nearly 30% physical damage really screams mage when most actual mages have less than 5% physical damage.

There's a reason earlier I included the term hybrid and talked about her AD scaling but you are clearly either not paying attention or unable to understand what these terms mean.

As I said before, there is a big difference between someone that is Diamond level and someone that is Bronze level... and it's not just a number or skill. That's enough/that is all.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TqRLX9yA,comment-id=000200000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-25T18:43:42.643+0000)

Sigh.... ok then let's get into it since you are going that far. http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/woonstruck Bronze level statistics. Inexperienced.

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/dominick%20destine Platinum S6, Diamond S5. Diamond level statistics. Extremely experienced.

Speak only for yourself. You do not represent anyone.

That is correct. However Evelynn is specifically a Mage/Assassin with some hybrid scaling and was built with that intent from the beginning.

Flimsy strawman argument/red herring/non sequitur.

Being a mage does not disqualify one from being an assassin.

There's a reason earlier I included the term hybrid and talked about her AD scaling but you are clearly either not paying attention or unable to understand what these terms mean.

As I said before, there is a big difference between someone that is Diamond level and someone that is Bronze level... and it's not just a number or skill. That's enough/that is all.

Okay, since you want to get into it, stop twisting information to suit your needs. I am gold. Match history only gives a piece of information, not the whole story. Ever take into account that maybe someone is coming back after several months of not playing and is not at all acclimated to the new damage in every match-up from thunderlords? Apparently not. You just like to twist information to suit your needs.

You made a thread about Eve at some point, and when I said all of the bad qualities of eve and how she needs a total rework, from lore to kit, you were downvoted with your argument, I was upvoted significantly. People in general think Eve is a mess. Of course there are exceptions such as yourself, but she needs to be re-done if Trundle of all champions needed to be.

The entire reason I'm not going into depth about any of this is because its off topic and do not wish to push into it too much. FFS cover that boner up. Everyone already knows how much you're obsessed with Eve.

Also, the Darius point was a parallel, not a strawman. Its using the same analysis you're giving eve to classify her as a mage.

Im ImpotentJan 26, 20161 votes

How about this, if a mage's abilities don't out-range darius' (550), then they are severely short ranged.

Ryze is a "short ranged" mage. His q e and W outrange darius' E, therefore he's not severely short ranged.

Vladimir's Q has a range of 600 with a cast delay of about .2/.3 seconds. Which means that the distance of an ability would have to be ~75/100(1 full teemo) units less than vlad's for him to successfully "kite" with his Q(IF he has a Rylais). Which means that not only do most mages outrange Vladimir with their abilities, even their AA's are able to easily hit him before his Q even heals him. So... yeah... he's a severely short ranged mage...

Mael broJan 25, 20162 votes

Either make him use mana or get rid of his healing on Tides of Blood (E)

Ruin LanceJan 25, 20163 votes

he doesn't get healing from his E. in fact he loses health from using his E. clearly someone who has not played vlad before lol

Mael broJan 25, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ruin Lance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TqRLX9yA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-01-25T18:01:57.974+0000)

he doesn't get healing from his E. in fact he loses health from using his E. clearly someone who has not played vlad before lol

He gets stacks on E after each use of that spell, which increases his heal, regeneration and spellvamp by 4-8%. It seems to me, that you are the one that never played vlad in the first place.

WarlockLawJan 25, 20168 votes

He still doesn't heal from his e, he just gets increased healing. Also if you want to remove that then just ditch the ability altogether, that ability will never feel good as just a source of unmissable damage

Baron of BreadJan 25, 20161 votes

The way you phrased your original post made it sound like using his E gives him health, not that it makes his health gain from other sources more effective.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Either make him use mana or get rid of his healing on Tides of Blood (E)

The issue is with lane use of his Q. Point and click "you take damage, I heal" for trading, not healing in general.

Spizzle9000Jan 25, 20162 votes

I doubt it. This is one of the few abilities in LoL that actually makes sense to be point and click.

WadeWilson1337Jan 26, 20162 votes

Id kind of like to see him get some type of resource from using his Q and maybe getting some kind of sustain or power spike after enough drains, something kind of similar to Rumble.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20161 votes

It won't become a skillshot.

The reliability of his damage is likely going to be adjusted through his E. Everyone, no matter who he's focusing, takes collateral damage just for being within 600 range of him.

Their issue with Q is point and click ranged damage/heal. They may move his healing somewhere else in his kit, or possibly substantiate his costs.

LaoBushidoJan 25, 20161 votes

The point and click is part of the reason they think Vald is unhealthy so it not unthinkable

Edited- riot quote

{quoted}

Our main problem with Vlad is his Q. It's a low CD, targeted, resourceless spell that restores health. It doesn't have much interesting decision making for Vlad, if it's ever strong early he just shuts a lot of people out of lane and the main ways to deal with it are to either sustain even more or to punish Vlad really hard when he trades.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The point and click is part of the reason they think Vald is unhealthy so it not unthinkable

Its not the point and click. Its the ranged point and click damage+heal. If they move the healing somewhere else, add a minigame, etc, the ability would be fine in Riot's eyes.

LaoBushidoJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Its not the point and click. Its the ranged point and click damage+heal. If they move the healing somewhere else, add a minigame, etc, the ability would be fine in Riot's eyes

I'm responding to op question and even in your response you say point and click is a,as I said, PART of the issue. No one knows how riot will change vlad how ever based on track record (ryze) adding a skill shot in place of live q is not out of the question.

WoonStruckJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm responding to op question and even in your response you say point and click is a,as I said, PART of the issue. No one knows how riot will change vlad how ever based on track record (ryze) adding a skill shot in place of live q is not out of the question.

In what way would sucking life-force out of somebody be employed by a projectile?

Yes, you could argue their track-record, but every other ability this has happened to threw something at somebody, or placed something on somebody, such as Ryze, Soraka, and Zilean.

LaoBushidoJan 25, 20161 votes

Vlad case is a matter of game Heath , and implementation is someing that can be worked on over the 6 months. There are people that work for riot that can figure out a way to make it work thematically. Looking at deadman wonderland blood powers can be expressed in a variety of ways.

On a side note what do spirt swords have to do with ninja?

Don't know but can't wait to find out

WoonStruckJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Vlad case is a matter of game Heath , and implementation is someing that can be worked on over the 6 months. There are people that work for riot that can figure out a way to make it work thematically. Looking at deadman wonderland blood powers can be expressed in a variety of ways.

On a side note what do spirt swords have to do with ninja?

Don't know but can't wait to find out

Don't for get Lovecraftian magicks.

Fat Bastard GODJan 25, 20161 votes

His Q is the biggest problem with his kit. Point and click no cost healing ranged ability. It's what makes him a nightmare for mele champs. Not being able to do anything against it is quite annoying. However, as mentioned before, it is impossible for it to be a skillshot without changing the ability itself...

stealthfox94Jan 25, 20161 votes

It will be a different ability, Vlad's kit needs a complete overhaul.

FrickendaChickenJan 26, 20161 votes

They probably want a mostly full rework on Vlad. He's the only champion Riot has said that they regret making.

WoonStruckJan 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They probably want a mostly full rework on Vlad. He's the only champion Riot has said that they regret making.

They stated it will not be a full rework. They want to make Q less of a power-dump on Vlad. Everything is focused around it. Sustain, Damage, Poke, etc. E they want to make less guaranteed damage. They stated he is likely to remain very similar to his current version. They just want to gate his poke/sustain in lane in a more meaningful way and give opponents a way to attempt avoiding some of his damage. They SHOULD change the R, but its likely staying.

kirbyzamaJan 26, 20161 votes

I want vlad to keep his unavoidable damage because someone in this game needs unavoidable damage but the problem with the Q is that it has his heal on it and about half of his damage on it at max cooldown. All they need to do is change how his sustain is handled and they can keep at least on of his "undodgeables"