I think Players have to come together and be harder on the Balance Team for the greater good.

Resolution·Aug 22, 2018·177 votes·21,661 views

Remember two weeks ago the Balance Team tried to ship us a Yasuo and Lee Sin buff? After a massive public outcry and dozens of topics questioning those "Buffs", the changes were eventually reviewed and stopped.

Now fast forward and the same situation is occurring but now with Yi and Rengar instead. Riot, if your listening, players have been complaining about the game having too much damage and assassins running rampant all year. Rather than buffing champions into more one-shot potentials, why not just reduce the damage of other high contenders? This isn't an arms race of making everyone OP.

Hopefully, if enough players are vocal enough about the team's actions lately change can start occurring :).

123 Comments

S0kaXAug 22, 201864 votes

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

DaBoooshAug 22, 201823 votes

I think you guys are being very tough already...[sg-lulu]

ResolutionAug 22, 201841 votes

{quoted}

I think you guys are being very tough already...[sg-lulu]

Were now almost 9 months into this season, and there's still no light at the end of the tunnel other than wait till next season. Yet, that was the exact thing we were told last Season :/.

I'm being tough because I care about the game - waiting a year+ for solutions while the same problems keep occurring is making people speak up. I want positive change, not more of the same stuff that's already caused problems previously.

HéntaiSénpaiAug 22, 201823 votes

I whole heartedly agree with this. Even with recent nerfs to a few things, a ton of champions are still way to over powered. Zed is over tuned. He got wat too much of a buff for a small dusk nerf, and honestly a lot of the champions that did get buffed are OP right now. The other things is SUDDEN IMPACT need to be removed. It is the only factor into why assassin's, ad and ap, can reduce Armor and MR to below 0 on a squishy. And it's majority used on assassin's. Get rid of it, or make it so everyone can use it. Know why everyone complains about Zoe? Because sudden Impact can drop base MR below 0 is she E+Q+R+Qs you. If you have no MR and she has Sorc boots and Morello, and void staff, with SI you have less that 0 base MR. So it does more damage than intended. Read this Riot. Remove Sudden Impact, and replace it with something more healthy. Something like: After hitting an enemy champion gain 5% MS for 1s (4s CD) That healthy an balanced.

RocketRelmAug 23, 20184 votes

A lot of the problem I have with sudden impact is that it's not even remotely "choice-based". Have a dash and care about your damage? Take Sudden Impact.

Death by GlamourAug 22, 201819 votes

"wait till preseason"

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

ResolutionAug 22, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tp24Eq7m,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-08-22T17:09:06.138+0000)

"wait till preseason"

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Only next season already has its own issues with the whole "Off-Role Ranks". Just wait till RNG get's added to matchmaking balance. You're going to see a lot more autofill and people in matches they don't belong in.

Personally, I think they should stall next seasons plans until they can fix the current seasons mess. Why add more potential issues when you can't even figure out the current ones?

Death by GlamourAug 22, 20185 votes

I doubt ill be here next season

past two have been complete right offs, cbf with a 3rd

KitstraAug 22, 201815 votes

The main reason I can't find the motivation to log in most days...

Nea104Aug 22, 201815 votes

No, they just don't listen. It's August, 16 patches have come out, this game has fallen to pieces, and they are still doing random absurd things like buffing Yi.

Told you, with the same people in the same spots things can just keep going this way. They need better people to make better things.

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 22, 201814 votes

Are you kidding me? you're comparing the current yi buff to what they wanted to give yasuo?

i saw all these threads panicking over yi and how he was gonna be everywhere, but it's just his W that gets buffed lmao. Not to mention the difference in win/pickrate between yasuo and yi.

You want me to band together with you but why would i when i'd rather see what those changes actually do for yi. I doubt anyone in the low elo's is using the W effectively, this might just be what he needs to get a lil boost for higher ranks. It's not like we can just revert the changes. like we should be reverting shen.

3TWarriorAug 23, 20182 votes

it was about a 20% reduction for the cooldown and i'd have to check it, but some of yi's abilities lower their cooldowns by auto attack hits

i don't remember what rengar's changes were

Seer of MindAug 23, 20181 votes

its actually fine to complain about yi, once he picks up guinsoos and stacks it fully after clearing jg, from like 5% hp he can go up to 75% and now with the buffs he basically has warmogs as an ability. Garen Garen Garen Garen Garen

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 23, 20183 votes

that's not how warmogs works.

PaladinNOAug 23, 201811 votes

Burrito Gems turned Valve.

https://www.nerfnow.com/img/737/1186/large.jpg

Please bring back the fun-size.

ResolutionAug 22, 201810 votes

Don't feel bad, been here since 2011. I'm giving next season my last hope.

I doubt I'll be here too.

Akali is SO HOTAug 22, 201810 votes

Riot reverted the buffs because it was too late in the cycle and they didn't do what they hoped they would do for the champions. You guys complaining about them all day had nothing to do with it.

deadlychuckAug 23, 20184 votes

What I want to know is what on earth could they have possibly been expecting the buffs to do for the champions.

3TWarriorAug 23, 20185 votes

as the other person commented, what could a 100% total AD boost to yasuo's combo do that would possibly be beneficial to the community?

as people mention, he already has an absurd ban rate and has reached higher than 100% before

people prefer him weak because his damage is rarely the problem. it's that he is a high damage champion with multiple defensive options to completely negate opposing damage

making him stronger just says they don't pay attention to the game at all

RanmiakuAug 23, 201810 votes

its simple really, the riot balance team are straight up retarded (and thats putting it nicely) me and 3 of my team died earlier to a 0/7/3 master yi who was also a level behind, with one q and an auto each, yeah that definitely needs buffed, and why the fuck does he need more damage reduction when his damage reduction is already higher than any other damage reduction ability in the game and also heals him? theres not enough bans in this game anymore to have an actual fun fair game

Starcraft243verAug 24, 20182 votes

One Q and one auto each to get killed by an low level 0/7 yi ?

Sure.

RanmiakuAug 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

One Q and one auto each to get killed by an low level 0/7 yi ?

Sure.

i actually dont care if you believe it or not, but its 100% true

Starcraft243verAug 30, 20181 votes

I believe you because you didnt mention you were at 100% hp. so yeah an alpha + auto can kill any mid-hp squishy.

Now if you want me to believe you and your 3 teammates were full HP and every single one of you got hit just by a Q and an auto and that you died from that, no I wont believe you because that simply did not happen.

You can probably still check the replay :)

RanmiakuAug 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I believe you because you didnt mention you were at 100% hp. so yeah an alpha + auto can kill any mid-hp squishy.

Now if you want me to believe you and your 3 teammates were full HP and every single one of you got hit just by a Q and an auto and that you died from that, no I wont believe you because that simply did not happen.

You can probably still check the replay :)

well i was 100% hp actually and my teammates were quite healthy, an it happened if you believe it or not? i dont need you to believe it for it to be true

Starcraft243verAug 30, 20181 votes

Well i'm not the kind of people who "believe", I proove things, this is false and I think I can do the maths to prove it. What is the link of the game so I can replicate your exact levels and stuff ?

ModAcademy KaynAug 22, 20189 votes

I mean, i think you're mixing up Cause and Effect here. What proof do you have that the only reason Riot didn't go through with the Yasuo and Lee Sin buffs, is because of "the Community"? Correlation is not causation, they could've just as easily thought that the buffs were too much, and didn't go through with them, regardless of the community.

3TWarriorAug 23, 20182 votes

if that were the case, quite a few changes would never hit live, except that in yasuo's case, there was never a moment the front page did not have three posts about yasuo, just like the current yi and rengar stuff

it was a 100% total AD buff to his ultimate. just on infinity edge, that's 70 and add his base AD and things get worse. 140 damage buff minimum is absurd for one of the most despised champions in the game. if you tack on his level 18 AD, 140 becomes 170

NorglicsAug 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tp24Eq7m,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-08-22T23:18:57.461+0000)

I mean, i think you're mixing up Cause and Effect here. What proof do you have that the only reason Riot didn't go through with the Yasuo and Lee Sin buffs, is because of "the Community"? Correlation is not causation, they could've just as easily thought that the buffs were too much, and didn't go through with them, regardless of the community.

rofl , no by now they should know pretty clear what those changes would do the balance team just wants to boost the hell out of their fav jumpy insta kill champs all the time

ModAcademy KaynAug 24, 20182 votes

Suuurreeeeee

mlm olo mlmAug 22, 20187 votes

Riot is on vacation mode. Maybe next year more meaningful changes will occur.

GuzergusAug 23, 20185 votes

There is absolutely no reason to listen to the playerbase which cries about one champion after another and thinks every mechanic they don't like should be changed or reworked. I definitely approve two-way communication, but the gameplay boards are not communicating, they're whining about every imaginable thing.

WeedlayerAug 22, 20184 votes

This is actually hilarious. All win rate data suggests tanks like sion, poppy and rammus are the best solo queue champions on the current patch, but the circle jerk is still around complete non-issue champions like Yasuo and Lee Sin. Fucking Master Yi, a champion with basically a non existent pick rate in elos where people have hands is on the chopping block? Come on now...

http://na.op.gg/champion/masteryi/statistics/top

http://na.op.gg/champion/sion/statistics/top

Tell me, which of these champions is the problem OP?

Summonah12369Aug 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This is actually hilarious. All win rate data suggests tanks like sion, poppy and rammus are the best solo queue champions on the current patch, but the circle jerk is still around complete non-issue champions like Yasuo and Lee Sin. Fucking Master Yi, a champion with basically a non existent pick rate in elos where people have hands is on the chopping block? Come on now...

http://na.op.gg/champion/masteryi/statistics/top

http://na.op.gg/champion/sion/statistics/top

Tell me, which of these champions is the problem OP?

Oh please, Yi with a ''non existent pick rate'', that's a big fat lie and you know it.

WeedlayerAug 25, 20182 votes

Yeah admittedly I was looking at top lane yi because that's what OP.GG defaults to, so I mistakenly read it as a .5% pick rate. In reality it's closer to 5-6%, which is pretty normal. His win rate is still meh (sub 49%) but I definitely misread the pick rate.

Void KaijuAug 22, 20184 votes

I don't think the boards outcry was the main reason those didn't make it to live. It was that the testing in pbe showed that they didn't fix the issues they had hoped they would fix. You are greatly overestimating the impact of the boards. Any buff to yasuo would have had the same outcry. You can't trust the biased voices on any one platform to always be crying for things that are in the best interest of the game.

Also not sure how much harder the boards has room to go. Already the balance team are called every name in the book, demanded to get fired, told to kill themselves.

Also also, the changes to Yi and rengar don't touch their damage at all? Rengars is mainly a utility buff since it's just gonna be CDR on his ult iirc. And the Yi one is a buff to his situational ability to resist damage at the cost of dealing less, which means he may be more inclined to use it than just go full out on dealing max damage.

What the boards could do is try and be more civil, work with the new gameplay+ board, and encourage constructive conversation with the devs about how to address problems and the root causes of those problems. We already have some users who post constructive threads but they're quickly drowned beneath the tides of "omg yasuo buff" "damage too high nerf duskblade" "balance team is a sham" threads.

deadlychuckAug 23, 20184 votes

This isn't an arms race of making everyone OP.

Actually it's quite literally an arms race. All stemming from assassins pretty much being given AD as ability power.

Not even joking. The current triangle of counters is AD casters > AD autos > Armor/HP > AD casters

But because they don't have individual primary stats, what ends up happening is that any buffs to Armor/HP to make them better against AD casters also work against AD autos, and any buffs to AD autos, still end up benefiting AD casters and vise versa. Then you tack on intermediate classes between these, and you end up with a gradually shifting loop, which any buff, or nerf, creates feedback as you go full circle having created a hexagon.

Tanks > Juggernauts > Assassins > Skirmishers > Marksmen > Auto bruisers (e.g. yi, tryn, olaf, trundle) > Tanks

It's a 2 stat system, being treated as a triangular balancing problem. What really needs to happen is a 3rd stat needs to be reintroduced into the whole system. It would've been a lot easier to implement if they'd just added it back when they really started pushing assassins as an official class, but I'm pretty sure they stopped really considering long term game health around that time.

Pika FoxAug 23, 20184 votes

Yes, because what league needs most are unqualified people coming together to harass the ones who know what theyre doing and are doing their jobs correctly. Better nerf yasuo instead of learning to play against a sub 50 wr champ.

Bot With DumbassAug 23, 20184 votes

ESPECIALLY the guy who made zoe

ThunderSkelettAug 23, 20183 votes

Remember last year when everyone wanted adcs nerfed THIS FORUM will never be satisfied pick your poisen do you want adcs as a unstopabel force with tanks and supports making them unkillabel or do you want a one shot free for all where everyone can be killed instantly.You have to notic that there is no middel ground.

EleshakaiAug 23, 20183 votes

But... politely so. Please.

We don't need to flame them, just logically and constructively point out the mistakes.

Summonah12369Aug 23, 20182 votes

If I see a million posts talking about balance issues every day doesn't that say something?

Oakleaf RangerAug 24, 20182 votes

Jesus christ

I finally check this post out after hoping it its not a click bait circle jerk only to be disappointed.

Post right for the wrong reasons.

Starcraft243verAug 24, 20182 votes

Plot twist : the fact these changes have been canceled has nothing to do with the outcry, it just happened that they wanted to try these changes on the pbe and reverted them once they saw it had a bad impact.

Neptunia xoxoAug 22, 20181 votes

We have been trying but CertainlyT still has a job somehow.

AmazoXAug 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Neptunia xoxo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tp24Eq7m,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-08-22T23:46:17.425+0000)

We have been trying but CertainlyT still has a job somehow.

Warwick rework was his masterpiece.

LakegaAug 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Remember two weeks ago the Balance Team tried to ship us a Yasuo and Lee Sin buff? After a massive public outcry and dozens of topics questioning those "Buffs", the changes were eventually reviewed and stopped.

Now fast forward and the same situation is occurring but now with Yi and Rengar instead. Riot, if your listening, players have been complaining about the game having too much damage and assassins running rampant all year. Rather than buffing champions into more one-shot potentials, why not just reduce the damage of other high contenders? This isn't an arms race of making everyone OP.

Hopefully, if enough players are vocal enough about the team's actions lately change can start occurring :).

This is why the whole "if everyone is OP, nobody is OP" logic is flawed, and wrong. THe idea that if everyone is OP, then balance magically happens is the dumbest logic in gaming of this generation...

AwesomeGuyDjAug 23, 20181 votes

Actually it does work if you create the game around it. In league where it wasn't designed that way it doesn't work.

LakegaAug 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Actually it does work if you create the game around it. In league where it wasn't designed that way it doesn't work.

No it doesn't work. Name 1 game where everything being OP magically creates balance? It doesn't.. Because you still need to balance the OP around each other, which then creates balance...

Such basic logic shouldn't be hard to understand...

The problem with League community mentality and apparently the balance teams impressively incompetent failure at their own game and the logic they put forward, is that they think "if everythings OP then nothing is OP".. and instead of balancing, they just throw random crap out based on the LCS, and create massive imbalance issues throughout the classes..

League is not impossible to balance in a healthy way... That does not mean its possible to make league perfectly balanced. There is a difference and I know someone is going to come out of the woodwork drooling on themselves thinking they're genius's as they point that out and think it makes my point wrong.

THe problem is Riots been nose diving away from balancing the game for the last 5 years, and after 5 years they are still too stupid and ignorant to figure out why, as the shills calling the shots only care about the LCS and money it makes, and are too stupid to figure out that if they let the game die, so too will the LCS.

InfernapeAug 23, 20181 votes

DotA 2. Every hero in that game is as broken as each other. I used to play DotA before switching over to league full time.

LakegaAug 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

DotA 2. Every hero in that game is as broken as each other. I used to play DotA before switching over to league full time.

I haven't played Dota 2 in years, but last time I played the champs were all balanced, with a few broken OP ones. It was mostly the items and gold mechanics that were really broken. Which is why I stopped playing.