Jungle experience scaling nerfs will have absolutely no effect on jungler effect on the game.

Profirix··8 votes·6,920 views

I've been looking/thinking over what Meddler said about jungler experience scaling nerfs coming in the next patch or so and I can't help but feel that these proposed changes from jungle camp experience are not the appropriate way to deal with excessive jungler presence in the lanes. Early ganking junglers like Camille, Lee Sin, Xin Zhao, and others are going to have high presence in lanes early for the simple fact that their kits allow them to have high impact early. This is not going to change because reduced camp experience doesn't kick in significantly until later and experience given for getting kills in lane is remaining constant. This will incentivize those gankers to keep doing what they are doing. These junglers will keep ganking because that is what they do regardless of whether they are down two or three levels from a laner, their presence will not change in 2v1 or 2v2 or 3v2 scenarios. All you do is potentially increase the risk of death when ganking. What else are they going to do if they have full cleared either one or both sides of their jungle? They gank!

These changes really only hurt one archetype of junglers, the power farmers Shyvana MasterYi. They are less successful when ganking because of their lack of CC and thus would prefer to stay farming in the jungle.

For one thing, the best way to keep junglers in their jungle is to increase the up-time on jungle camps. If you reduce the spawn timers on basic camps in conjunction with reduced experience, you force the jungler to spend more time clearing their camps instead of ganking. Another option is to reduce jungle camp damage and increase jungle camp health. This will keep junglers preoccupied with their camps rather than ganking immediately within the first few minutes of the game.

Reducing scaling experience WILL NOT have the intended effect. The only effect it will have is to further limit the list of viable junglers to those who can effectively gank and kill lane opponents early, thus guaranteeing them increased experience over any other jungle archetypes. All other junglers will be significantly outmatched by their gank-heavy opponents without having any way to keep the playing field even.

15 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon7 votes

"Making junglers lower level overall won't nerf jungler impact"

wat

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

People don't seem to understand that jungler's absurd agency over the game comes not from ganks, but from ganks AND being able to win 1v1s AND providing as much value in teamfights as solo laners.

Profirix1 votes

That is simply not true. The overwhelming majority of EARLY jungle pressure comes from 2v1s or 3v2s. Where adding an extra player, regardless of what their level is, tips the scales in the favor of the attacker. It is only after the junglers get fed off of these types of ganks that they can then 1v1 the laners and win.

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

It is only after the junglers get fed off of these types of ganks that they can then 1v1 the laners and win.

Right, because red smite doesn't exist.

Junglers have second best dueling summoner spell in the game available every 90 seconds.

You are so used to your advantage that you stopped noticing it.

Profirix1 votes

What does jungler red smite have to do with jungler experience scaling changes? if red smite is the offending item, change it or get rid of it. Don't just mess with scaling experience and claim that its going to fix the problem.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

But smite isn't the only problem. Smite only messes with the 1v1s. Even removing it completely wouldn't equalize the advantage junglers have.

Main problem with solo Q advantage of junglers is that a laner can't neutralize a jungler like a laner can.

If, as a jungler, you see that enemy mid is vastly better then yours, you can prevent them from abusing this advantage in multiple ways, starting with camping, clearing and putting wards and securing buffs for your ally.

If, however, as a laner you notice that enemy jungler is vastly better then yours, you can do very little. Toplaners can countergank once every six minutes. Mid laners can do a bit more, but even for them every roam is losing gold while donating plates to the enemy. With expection of very few champions, you also never will be able to contest a drake/baron from a jungler without smite.

Riot tried to force junglers to fight for their food like everyone does by introducting scuttle patch, which would give the chance for laners to use their advantage on junglers like junglers can use on them, but the outcry of junglers was so big that they were forced to put much of the exp back into regular monsters.

If junglers don't like competing for their exp like everyone else, then the only thing left for Riot to do is to simply reduce the effectiveness of their exp flow until their overall agency roughly matches the rest of the roles - which, sadly, means bad nerfs, but then again they are way overdue.

Düff McWhalen5 votes

It will just reduce the pool of viable junglers. The level 2 gank meta favors a very specific criteria of champion;

-front loaded damage (fast clear time) -cc or mobility of some kind (can run up and kill you with the front loaded damage mentioned above)

Your tank junglers, the ones that clear slowly will simply not be able to keep up in farm, and they won't have the front loaded damage to gank quickly or effectively. They will be counter jungled to hell, and set back further.

Javi Is Here5 votes

Also revert scuttle

BestPudgeNA5 votes

Don't you know nerfing late game jungle scaling is how you nerf early pressure junglers

Kinda like when Bruisers are OP top you need to nerf Tank items.

Aseraan2 votes

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Eedat3 votes

and we've come full circle. Next it'll be force junglers to stop power farming and gank

C9 Squeeky 2 votes

It'll certainly hurt the junglers that want/need Level 6 the most because it'll delay them from getting to that powerspike. This might make counter-jungling stronger to keep your opponent low level'd, then when your laner pushes, they can contest the enemy jungler even harder. I can see the 9.2 changes being paired with lower respawn timers though to keep Junglers in the jg, as you said, to make up for the loss XP. But Riot keeps saying one thing and then saying another. First, they say they want junglers to have more PvP interaction (hence the 8.10 scuttle changes) but now they want less interation with laners. Yes, it's much harder to take a tower just one gank but a gank could still be worthwhile to get a plating or two. Better make your ganks count!

Profirix1 votes

I'm mostly just worried about what it does to farming junglers.

PAX Poler1 votes

I feel like you need to gank successful early or you will be behind in terms of leveling compared to the rest of the team if you want to power farm or not gank as often. Junglers that gank early have the advantage now since if you don't you will lagg behind everyone. So gankers that have strong potential early game are more viable than late game junglers.

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