So Zoe looks fun, but when's the promised burst mage?

Eeyore·Nov 6, 2017·3 votes·1,322 views

'cause Zoe is an artillery champion.

I mean... she has one damaging active.

22 Comments

nm1010Nov 6, 20172 votes

Her passive looks like a pretty large amount of damage, mix in her cc, utility, and mobility and you can call her just about any type of mage you want.

EeyoreNov 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Her passive looks like a pretty large amount of damage, mix in her cc, utility, and mobility and you can call her just about any type of mage you want.

But she doesn't have a burst rotation. She's all about poking. She's basically just Q and some tools to make landing Q easier or increasing Q's damage. She's like Nidalee or Taliyah if they only had Q for damage. Heck, she's almost exactly like old Nidalee (who was nerfed/reworked because being pushed out of a fight by one skill was considered boring/anti-fun).

nm1010Nov 6, 20171 votes

So to you only landing a consecutive combo of damaging abilities is bursting?

Her burst combo would be something like E R backwards Q R return Flash Q whatever W you have stored with passive autos. E and R both increase her Q damage with passive + W for following and finishing kills.

ImAGhostOoOoOoOoNov 6, 20171 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

ModWulf HelhammerNov 6, 20171 votes

You don't really understand what artillery mages are if you think Zoe classifies as one

EeyoreNov 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TcpKw9GV,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-06T20:19:45.205+0000)

You don't really understand what artillery mages are if you think Zoe classifies as one

Riot's definition of Artillery isn't what I would call artillery, but Zoe is consistent with Nidalee and Jayce - two champion's classified as Artillery. Even Ezreal and Jhin were classified as Artillery before Riot removed almost all secondary classes.

I would personally consider Artillery to only be applicable to damage that bypasses the front-line (which one of those/these champions do) - but the point of this thread wasn't to question Riot's definitely of Artillery, only ask how Zoe doesn't qualify.

ModWulf HelhammerNov 6, 20171 votes

Artillery mages are defined with long range high damage/poke abilities, think Xerath or Vel'Koz Q, and typically are immobile (think an actual artillery encampment).

Nidalee is actually classified as a Unique Playstyle (Jayce is regarded as artillery), with the main members of that archetype being Xerath, Vel'Koz, Ziggs, and Lux as a hybrid burst.

From what we know about Zoe, she really doesn't fit into that idea, as she wants to be moving around the fight, and close enough to use her enhanced auto attacks from her passive (pseudo-lichbane)

ZerdunNov 6, 20171 votes

The burst probably comes from the q ping pong behind her and her passives the empowered autos and the missile barrage thing from her w

EeyoreNov 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The burst probably comes from the q ping pong behind her and her passives the empowered autos and the missile barrage thing from her w

Having "burst" isn't how Riot classifies a Burst Mage. Assassins and divers also have burst damage. Artillery also usually have a lot of up front damage. Riot defines a Burst Mage as having a rotation of spells and a down time. Zoe is a poke champion - she has no "rotation", and her only down time is the one between her only ability.

ZerdunNov 6, 20171 votes

Rotation would be - land E set up for large Q damage use a summoner spell to finish him.

That sounds like a rotation to spam for damage. 'Burst' mages are designed around a prep time then an unload.

Artillery aka 'poke' mages have spammy long range abilities that are thrown from safety. Think Xerath.

Zoe's Q and E get their distance enhancements based on stipulations. Q gets it from the ping pong effect and it seems like when you activate the bounce it will lane somewhere within a specific range from her. E gets the extra range from hopping over walls.

EeyoreNov 7, 20171 votes

{quoted} Think Xerath.

Her Q cooldown is the same as Xerath's. Actually, it's lower at the start of the game.

Even Xerath is closer to a burst mage considering he has a rotation of damaging spells - not just a rotation of spells he can use to land more Qs.

Zoe is basically just mage-Caitlyn - she has Headshot and lots of spells that empower Headshot, or make targets unable to dodge being Headshot. Yes, Zoe can "combo" her Q+E - but that isn't a burst rotation.

P.S. I apologize. I didn't realise Nidalee was another champion who fell victim to Riot's decision to change from having a dozen champions without secondary classes to 4 champions with secondary classes.

LongHair FoxNov 6, 20171 votes

W seems to also do damage, she is going to be a lichbane user, and her q has very low range unless she comboes with her ult which means she puts herself in danger. Not something an artillery mage wants. If anything her closest comparison is leblanc... who definitely is a burst mage.

ModThe DjinnNov 6, 20171 votes

Her E/Q combo looks like it deals significant damage, her ult drops to a 6-second cooldown and triggers her increased passive damage, and her W gives her extra burst on top of that.

I imagine the a combo of Auto/E/Q/Auto/R/Auto with Lichbane will tear through people, frankly.

nm1010Nov 6, 20171 votes

her ult drops to a 6-second cooldown

Source? If so that is some crazy poking/play making potential.

ModThe DjinnNov 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Source? If so that is some crazy poking/play making potential.

RiotScruffy's Twitter

nm1010Nov 6, 20171 votes

Thanks! Yeah I think that she is going to be a pretty high skill ceiling, I can't wait for her to hit the PBE to give her a try.

DurzakaNov 6, 20171 votes

You see her Q?

Properly Combo'd shes gonna be one shotting people with Q-AA

EeyoreNov 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You see her Q?

Properly Combo'd shes gonna be one shotting people with Q-AA

Being able to "empower/set-up her Q" with her other abilities doesn't make them a spell rotation. The fact she has a "combo" does not make her a burst mage.

Otherwise you could call Caitlyn's a burst mage just because she can "combo" her Snap Trap...

DurzakaNov 7, 20171 votes

Nice logical fallacy there buddy.

TruelyTrueTruethNov 7, 20171 votes

dont comment stuff like this before you play her

EeyoreNov 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

dont comment stuff like this before you play her

Being able to play her makes no difference at all, in this situation.

Optimistic MetaNov 7, 20171 votes

According to riot (bit old though) https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list Syndra Veigar Annie Twisted Fate Ahri Lissandra Lux (hybrid Artillery) Viktor Brand (hybrid Battle Mage)

Most of them get their damage within 3ish seconds, and can delete someone in that time. Most are single target pointclick ults, others extreme aoe.

But Zoe on the other hand, seems to be a look less burst. Her passive relies on autos, usually not fast on a mage. One main damage, other is utility.