So thank you Riot. A clean, straight nerf (-3 AD) to Vayne is all we wanted. It's good. Very good. Nice job. It's not huge, but it's in the good direction. (and it might be just enough)
-ofc there's gonna be the marksman update so we'll see how it goes later on-
TurquoiseYoshi15 votesKayle nerfed by 5 AD, before many nerfs to Sated, and, specifically, ranged Sated.
Vayne nerfed by 3 AD.
Sasogwa4 votesKayle nerfed by 5 AD, before many nerfs to Sated, and, specifically, ranged Sated.
Vayne nerfed by 3 AD.
Yeah I don't understand why the 5 AD nerf hasn't been reverted yet. Sated was nerfed and lane Kayle was fine. Their reasoning was stupid on that, it was a big nerf on lane Kayle, no matter what they said
Ariel the Cruel2 votesYeah I don't understand why the 5 AD nerf hasn't been reverted yet.
They added 5 AD to warrior. "reversion" complete.
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesNot only that, they made it seem small and pointless, not giving any context on it in the patch notes. Ranged Sated was nerfed, yet Kayle still has that reactionary nerf to being a middle-class member of the Sated crew.
Cowgirl Ed14 votesif they delete her its a better nerf
BetaDude4016 votesNo champion should ever be flat-out deleted permanently from the game
Over Innsmouth35 votes
BetaDude4013 votesI'd be pretty satisfied with an E cooldown nerf at higher levels. You know, so we can actually hit the fucker.
IcyPepper11 votesIf his E and ult was switched, I wouldn't care.
Shark for days, fuck troll poll.
BetaDude402 votesOnly if they take the damage amp on shark off, if that's the case.
IcyPepper3 votesWell of course!
I wouldn't mind his troll poll having more damage if it meant having an actual cooldown.
ayNigerianPrince1 votesA few visual/number changes with this might actually turn fizz into a decent champion.
IcyPepper1 votesHaven't they tried that fifty times already?
Auz the Ripper1 votesThey tried it once
Failed
Then said "screw it, good enough"
ayNigerianPrince2 votesThey switched the e with the ult before?
Auz the Ripper1 votesThey tried reworking him
Daedalus8715 votes
BetaDude402 votesRIP, my sweet princess...
RIP
ZT Xperimentor1 votesUrf the manatee was, he never made it onto the beta servers. He was deleted after riot playtested him.
BetaDude406 votesAs we all know, manatees are the most overloaded sea creatures in the ocean, behind whales.
JRoeBing1 votesNo champion should ever be flat-out deleted permanently from the game
Not even.... 
?
BetaDude403 votesDude.
Look at my icon.
Do you think I want Teemo deleted?
He's not even as strong as people claim he is; he's just annoying.
Axis the Dragon1 votesAfter his R duration Nerf he's not even as annoying as he used to be
Gubaguy3 votesyorick is halfway there, hes been removed form free rotation, meaning you HAVE to buy him to play him.
alfavhunter6 votesOne of her issues is the base damage on her true damage, it should only be % hp because the base damage makes it good vs squishy targets as well
What should be done is remove all base damage from it and raise the % at all ranks by 1
This results in a near net even vs tanks while lowering her damage on adc or glass cannons, meaning she will need more damage from items to be effective vs them instead of flooding them with base true damage and % hp true damage with mediocre ad damage on the side
SlaktarTasken1 votes+1'd.
MealReadytoEat5 votesThere is only two minor nerfs I want to see for her, although the AD nerf is probably enough.
SlaktarTasken2 votesThis makes 100% sense, don't see why Vayne should enjoy her full passive, for orbwalking around opponents. Increase the b*tches riskyness, she has too much safety.
I don't agree with this nerf, Vayne needs to be riskier, not do less damage, cause considering the raw ammoutns of steroids she has loaded into her kit, this just isn't going to make much of an impact and the only ones claiming it does are fanboys who now feel safe to keep raping face cause she's been "nerfed".
Nerf, more like a lovetap.
63536895_DEL4 votes3 AD isn't going to do shit. This is Riot thinking: hmm insane mobility, self peal, a W that removes tanks from existence, and stealth with an insane movespeed buff. Alright balancing team how should we fix her? Well I think we can all agree that her kit is completely balanced and not toxic at all, so lets remove 3 AD and call it a day. Balancing team unanimously agrees.
This is how I imagine the balancing team.
IcyPepper2 votesI wouldn't say her kit is toxic, it's just too strong.
3 AD can impact her early game a bit, and hopefully that will help reduce her power at the moment. It's a small nerf, but it's something.
63536895_DEL1 votesI wouldn't say her kit is toxic, it's just too strong.
3 AD can impact her early game a bit, and hopefully that will help reduce her power at the moment. It's a small nerf, but it's something.
Average Vayne starts dorans blade and 1 pot, she could just start longsword and 3 pots and get the 3 AD back, which imo opinion I think longsword and 3 pots is a better start than dorans anyway.
IcyPepper4 votes... Balance doesn't quite work that way.
One, anyone can take longsword and three pots. Vayne could lose her 3 AD advantage if the enemy did it too.
Vayne loses out on 70 health, which is a lot compared to 3 AD. 70 health is a risk that early in the game, you can be poked down and all-inned faster. Plus without lifesteal, and even with pots, you're not going to last as long as the opponent.
Vayne will get better building into BORK sooner, but going longsword 3 pots instead of Dorans increases her early game risk more than a 3 AD nerf will.
I mean, you can go ahead and try. Report your results afterwards, and make sure to throw in a few Doran start games just for a control variable.
Kingopants4 votesI wouldn't say her kit is toxic, it's just too strong.
3 AD can impact her early game a bit, and hopefully that will help reduce her power at the moment. It's a small nerf, but it's something.
It's just not enough, I find the larger probelm to be she just Peels for herself too well. I mean okay fine she can do hypercarrie damage but at least not dash invis every 2 seconds while doing it.
Tr0nt0n3 votesMarksman update: Vayne now deals 50% target max healt as true damage every two hits. For compensation we removed her .5 ad. Hope you like it!
Only Play Darius1 votesMaybe a rework to her Silver Bolts:
PASSIVE: Silver Tipped Bolts: Vayne does 2%maxHP true bonus damage on autoattacks.
ACTIVE (No cost): Pure Silver Bolts: Vayne switches her ammunition to a heavier round made of pure silver. When activated her next (2 + ability rank) autoattacks deal 7% maxHP bonus true damage although at the cost of attack range (due to heavier projectiles). No attack range penalty during Final Hour (because she switches to a full-size crossbow). Passive component is lost while ability is cooling down similar to Wuju style. Lengthy cooldown to prevent abuse early game but cooldown reduces with autoattacks so she is still encouraged to build attack speed.
Not perfect by any means, but gets rid of the 3-hit nuke everyone hates. Let's her keep her trademark sustained %HP true damage with the passive component, gives her a "window of power" if she wants to quickly deal massive uncounterable damage and makes her more bursty but more predictable, and leaves her vulnerable once it's on cooldown. Makes her a bit more fair to fight against for immobile melees because she loses some of her range advantage if she boosts her %HP true dmg, but if she really wants to win the 1v1 she can keep her range advantage at the cost of her ultimate. Preferably also a rework to her condemn that turns it into a skillshot that hits the first champion or large monster so you can actually outplay it, but increases the cast range and kickback and possibly allows her to impale multiple enemies to a wall.
Then again it might not solve anything. It's a nightmare to balance %HP true damage on a ranged champion with two peels and stealth, they might have to start from square one.
Axis the Dragon2 votesIt's not the %HP True Damage Nuke that people hate - at least, not by itself
The problem is that it also comes with incredible amounts of self peel (Condemn, Invis, Short Q CD on auto) that makes her slippery as hell
Aziriously2 votesIt is pretty huge. Twitch losing 2-3 AD back in season 4 pretty much removed him from the game. Base stat nerfs are often the worst.
Blue Moon Wolf2 votesHas riot said what they are planning to do with this marksman update, or is it still up in the air? I know the juggernaut update was for all intents and purposes a buff and was an attempt to help out some of the supposedly less mobile champs, but I really don't think that many marksmen need help. Especially champs like 
and 
.
Sasogwa2 votes[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tb6nAgRL,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-10-07T21:12:06.557+0000)
Has riot said what they are planning to do with this marksman update, or is it still up in the air? I know the juggernaut update was for all intents and purposes a buff and was an attempt to help out some of the supposedly less mobile champs, but I really don't think that many marksmen need help. Especially champs like
Imo Marksmen need nerfs but idk what they plan on doing
gg git diff1 votesinb4 “3 AD” becomes the new meme.
Auz the Ripper3 votes
Tis a nice day1 votesAs someone who does not play Dota 2, context please?
Sightless662 votesDoom got 1 more armor as the only buff in a patch.
Auz the Ripper6 votesIt's a similar case but in reverse Doom, a hero who was underpowered, got a buff of 1 point added to his base armor (which is about equal to about 5 armor in this game but still) as the only buff So people starting joking that he would take literally no damage now
Tis a nice day1 votesAh, I see. Curious to see how the forums will all react once the Vayne nerfs go live.
Voluug131 votesAnyways its funny by itself.
Niaphim1 votesIt is a decent nerf. She loses quite a bit of damage of her AA-Q-AA-E combo. While the true damage part stays the same, overall it is weaker by ~7 damage. Considering the fact that the game is mostly balanced it may really be enough. If not there is still flat true damage part that can be looked at.
SlaktarTasken2 votesWow, a wopping what what, 10? damage of a combo that already shaves of more than half of any squishies life, some nerf.
Yes, the flat true damage needs to be removed, someone who is already a tankbuster should not enjoy increased effectiveness against squishies as well.
ARequestOfDeath2 votesit should do magic damage
Niaphim1 votesI am all for nerfing Vayne, but not for deleting her or rendering completely useless. It's better to go slowly, or we will end up with eve-like champion where she is borderline trollpick.
