I feel like Sona is super useless unless the enemy team is just flat out dumb

LegacyDAP·Dec 20, 2015·10 votes·2,032 views

Any reason I feel like this?

I didn't say she was unviable, but if they pick any back line champion. You can expect you'll be the first one to die.

52 Comments

VesarixxDec 20, 20157 votes

Sona isn't bad at all, she has high utility, considerable damage, reliability, can bully lanes and set up picks. In the right hands she can be very effective, Aphromoo has been playing her in a few games recently and the ones I've seen he has been completely dominating.

LegacyDAPDec 20, 20156 votes

I know Sona is the best champion in the game, she might need a hotfix soon with all that utility and damage, I completely agree with you. No different opinions here.

VesarixxDec 20, 20155 votes

[deleted]

LegacyDAPDec 21, 20155 votes

You edited your comment, don't act like you're right because you changed your comment, because I can also do that. In every Sona game he plays which is like 3 games in 5 days. They didn't pick a super engage support or team. They pick weak early easy to get poked by comps, I can assure you if any of those games had an assassin or engage champion Aphro would lose, because instead of killing just the ADC he'll kill you too, because you really can't defend your ADC.

Sona is just a super situational pick, which is why she isn't good.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You edited your comment, don't act like you're right because you changed your comment, because I can also do that. In every Sona game he plays which is like 3 games in 5 days. They didn't pick a super engage support or team. They pick weak early easy to get poked by comps, I can assure you if any of those games had an assassin or engage champion Aphro would lose, because instead of killing just the ADC he'll kill you too, because you really can't defend your ADC.

Sona is just a super situational pick, which is why she isn't good.

Here's the thing though: because Sona is a jack-of-all-trades the only way Riot can tolerate her being strong is if she is only situationally strong, because if she is just "strong" then she becomes a mandatory pick and Riot doesn't accept that (yeah only Thresh can be a mandatory pick).

VesarixxDec 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You edited your comment, don't act like you're right because you changed your comment, because I can also do that. In every Sona game he plays which is like 3 games in 5 days. They didn't pick a super engage support or team. They pick weak early easy to get poked by comps, I can assure you if any of those games had an assassin or engage champion Aphro would lose, because instead of killing just the ADC he'll kill you too, because you really can't defend your ADC.

Sona is just a super situational pick, which is why she isn't good.

I didn't change my comment, you are delusional, I deleted the second comment because it was a response to a post of yours that no longer exists, but the original comment is the same as when it was first posted and will remain so.

PredatoreDec 20, 20154 votes

I feel the same way!

BeldairDec 20, 20154 votes

Sona is still viable. She has one of the highest poke as a support. And her multi person stun can change a losing team fight to a winning match.

Pika310Dec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Sona is still viable. She has one of the highest poke as a support. And her multi person stun can change a losing team fight to a winning match.

This is just blatantly false:

Sona has only a singular damage spell, which is tied for the lowest base damage amongst all supports.
With exceptions to Lulu and Thresh who both have on-hit modifiers, Sona is tied for the lowest base AD of supports.
When comparing full combos, Sona's potential damage output is factually the 2nd-lowest out of all supports in the game, only beating out Braum.

Also worth noting:

She's the only support in the game lacking pre-6 hard CC, with exception to off-picks like Kayle.
She's the only ranged support in the game with melee-range spells.
Utilizing her full "potential" requires her being within 550 units of the enemy, which literally every ADC and support in the game can either engage or counter-harass from this distance.
She has the 3rd-lowest base mana, she goes OOM faster than anyone short of say Lulu and et cetera.
She sits in the lowest tier of MS, despite being the squishiest support other than Zyra.
Her AP scalings are amongst the worst in the game, even for supports.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AUHkJgo5-the-support-class-a-side-by-side-comparison

BeldairDec 20, 20152 votes

Supports aren't meant for AD damage.

Pika310Dec 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Supports aren't meant for AD damage.

If you aren't harassing with basic attacks as a support, then you're not playing support properly. This becomes thrice as true for Sona, who has a very large amount of her damage trapped in not just one, but TWO AA-modifiers.

AD matters, or are you just going to blatantly ignore the fact Soraka had her base AD nerfed by an entire SIX points in patch 4.20 because AD MATTERS?

BeldairDec 21, 20154 votes

Again...Supports are not meant for DAMAGE.

They poke the enemy yes, but not to do a ton of damage. It's to let the adc farm or set them up for a kill.

Pika310Dec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

They poke the enemy

All the more reason why AD MATTERS. When you're trying to poke for consistent damage over time, every little bit counts as it increases multiplicatively every time you trade. What you're intentionally misleading is that all the damage comes from 1 burst, WHICH IT DOES NOT. No, of course 6 damage isn't going to matter much in a single trade. However, when you do a dozen or so trades it multiplies very quickly and becomes as though you're getting extras attacks in comparatively to if you didn't have that extra damage. This concept is exactly why Spellthief's on-hit passive matters, but you've already made it apparent you don't understand how the support role works.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Again...Supports are not meant for DAMAGE.

They poke the enemy yes, but not to do a ton of damage. It's to let the adc farm or set them up for a kill.

Annie Morgana Velkoz Zyra waddup

Good luck either zoning the enemy or setting your ally for kill with poke damage that barely tickles.

Of course when you end the laning phase, nobody cares about your damage anymore, but for poke supports, dmg in the laning phase does matter.

AD does matter because auto attacks are free damage. Why do you think Janna`s AA range is such shit? Hint: it's tied to her E. She has shit AA range because she has a very strong AD steroid.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

This is just blatantly false:

Sona has only a singular damage spell, which is tied for the lowest base damage amongst all supports.

With exceptions to Lulu and Thresh who both have on-hit modifiers, Sona is tied for the lowest base AD of supports.

When comparing full combos, Sona's potential damage output is factually the 2nd-lowest out of all supports in the game, only beating out Braum.

Also worth noting:

She's the only support in the game lacking pre-6 hard CC, with exception to off-picks like Kayle.

She's the only ranged support in the game with melee-range spells.

Utilizing her full "potential" requires her being within 550 units of the enemy, which literally every ADC and support in the game can either engage or counter-harass from this distance.

She has the 3rd-lowest base mana, she goes OOM faster than anyone short of say Lulu and et cetera.

She sits in the lowest tier of MS, despite being the squishiest support other than Zyra.

Her AP scalings are amongst the worst in the game, even for supports.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AUHkJgo5-the-support-class-a-side-by-side-comparison

Part of the dmg of her Q is tied to the empowered AA, if you aren't using it, you're doing it wrong. Also, Staccato. Use it.
She has TWO on-hit modifier (Q buff and her passive)
pre-6 hard CC where?

Pika310Dec 22, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TZR6NplE,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2015-12-21T02:57:55.022+0000)

pre-6 hard CC where?

Snare; Snare; Snare; Polymorph

Before getting into the debate of whether or not these are considered "hard CC," remember that Sona has nothing more than a slow. Which requires THREE spell-casts to charge, Song of Celerity to activate AND a basic attack to proc, despite being her ONLY pre-6 CC.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Snare; Snare; Snare; Polymorph

Before getting into the debate of whether or not these are considered "hard CC," remember that Sona has nothing more than a slow. Which requires THREE spell-casts to charge, Song of Celerity to activate AND a basic attack to proc, despite being her ONLY pre-6 CC.

Soft CCx4.

Morg and Zyra's snare are skilshots. Karma's slow is a skillshot. Her snare is tied to a tether and is delayed. Lulu loses her speed buff for casting W on an enemy and her slow is also a skillshot.

Sona isn't loaded with CC because Sona is loaded with buffs; she's meant to say "okay you wenna fight? Bitch let's fight" rather than force the fight on you like Leona or deny it like Janna.

Pika310Dec 22, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TZR6NplE,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-22T01:28:16.392+0000)

Soft CCx4.

Morg and Zyra's snare are skilshots. Karma's slow is a skillshot. Her snare is tied to a tether and is delayed. Lulu loses her speed buff for casting W on an enemy and her slow is also a skillshot.

Sona isn't loaded with CC because Sona is loaded with buffs; she's meant to say "okay you wenna fight? Bitch let's fight" rather than force the fight on you like Leona or deny it like Janna.

"Soft CC," "Hard CC," whatever you call it doesn't matter, the fact still remains that Sona has neither and she's the ONLY dedicated support champion with neither. "Skillshot," "delay," "either/or spells," Sona WISHES she could have conditional CC like those, cause fact of the matter is she has NONE. All she has is a slow and worse yet, it has multiple layers of conditions of usage other than just clicking 1 key.

Despite being "loaded with buffs" she still somehow has fewer than most other supports AND less damage as well. Despite being a "let's fight" champ, she still does less damage than Leona, Janna, etc. DESPITE them ALSO having more CC and being better at both engage or disengage.

Want engage? Pick Leona/Annie/Blitz. Want disengage? Pick Janna/Braum/Zyra. Want both? Pick Thresh/Bard/Nami. When the hell do I pick Sona? Answer: Never.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"Soft CC," "Hard CC," whatever you call it doesn't matter, the fact still remains that Sona has neither and she's the ONLY dedicated support champion with neither. "Skillshot," "delay," "either/or spells," Sona WISHES she could have conditional CC like those, cause fact of the matter is she has NONE. All she has is a slow and worse yet, it has multiple layers of conditions of usage other than just clicking 1 key.

Despite being "loaded with buffs" she still somehow has fewer than most other supports AND less damage as well. Despite being a "let's fight" champ, she still does less damage than Leona, Janna, etc. DESPITE them ALSO having more CC and being better at both engage or disengage.

Want engage? Pick Leona/Annie/Blitz. Want disengage? Pick Janna/Braum/Zyra. Want both? Pick Thresh/Bard/Nami. When the hell do I pick Sona? Answer: Never.

But she DOES have conditional soft CC like the champions you listed. "Multiple layers of conditions", holy shit overstatement of the year. It requires 3 spell casts (no specific time span), and it requires you to press E before you auto-attack someone. Didn't end your 3 spells with E? Press it anyway to change the Power Chord. Charged PC and don't need it right now? Hold onto it.

She does NOT do less damage than Leona, and she sure as hell does more damage than JANNA. Janna does basically negative damage in lane. Her auto attacks are her biggest source of damage in lane.

Sona is jack of all trade. She isn't meant to beat specialists at what they do. She's meant to do a bit of everything.

She can be "out-engaged" She can be "out-disengaged" She can be "out-damaged" She can be "out-healed" She can be "out-buffed"

but she CANNOT be beaten in all five areas AT ONCE. Soraka heals more? Sona has AoE hard CC, stronger and more reliable poke, offensive + defensive + mobility buffs. Janna peels better? Sona reliably heals, engages better, does more damage. Leona engages better? Sona heals, shields, buff her team's damage, buff her team's speed, and has an AoE stun (which Leona does not have unless the enemy team is standing awkwardly close to each others).

Pika310Dec 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TZR6NplE,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-23T02:32:19.499+0000)

But she DOES have conditional soft CC like the champions you listed.

Last I checked, a slow doesn't stop Lucian from dashing. A slow doesn't stop Ezreal from blinking. A slow doesn't stop ANYONE from Flashing. Snares and Polymorphs on the other hand DO as a matter-of-fact stop ALL of these, but Sona cannot.

She does NOT do less damage than Leona, and she sure as hell does more damage than JANNA. Janna does basically negative damage in lane. Her auto attacks are her biggest source of damage in lane.

Leona: P - 35 Dmg; Q - 40 Dmg, 45 Mana, 11 CD; W - 60 Dmg, 275 Rng, 60 Mana, 14 CD; E - 60 Dmg, 875 Rng, 60 Mana, 13 CD; Ttl Dmg - 195-265

Janna: Q - 60-105 Dmg, 1.1-1.7k Rng, 90 Mana, 14 CD; W - 60 Dmg, 600 Rng, 40 Mana, 12 CD; E - 14 AD, 600 Rng, 40 Mana, 12 CD; Ttl Dmg - 120-165+14 AD

Sona: P - 27-41 Dmg, 550 Rng; Q - 40-80 Dmg, 700-~550 Rng, 45 Mana, 8 CD; Ttl Dmg - 67-121

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AUHkJgo5-the-support-class-a-side-by-side-comparison

Sona has the 2nd-lowest damage potential of the entire support class, this is numerical fact.

Sona is jack of all trade. She isn't meant to beat specialists at what they do. She's meant to do a bit of everything.

She can be "out-engaged" She can be "out-disengaged" She can be "out-damaged" She can be "out-healed" She can be "out-buffed"

but she CANNOT be beaten in all five areas AT ONCE.

Except these jack-of-all-trade champions do matter-of-factly beat her in "all 5 areas AT ONCE:"

Bard Nami Thresh

All of these "out-engages, out-disengages, out-damages(every support except Braum does this), out-heals and out-buffs" her. There's literally no reason to EVER play Sona when multiple champs are just blatantly superior versions of her.

VictoryDance96Dec 20, 20153 votes

She's not a bad supp, although there are plenty of others I prefer.

FioraWillCarryDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She's not a bad supp, although there are plenty of others I prefer.

From my own limited experience the best supports from best to worst:- Leona Soraka Sona Blitzcrank

Whenever I play bot lane those 4 are the most difficult to deal with. Leona in particular is almost impossible to win against. You just feed....

Honorable mentions:- Morgana

When you meet a good Morgana, its gg...ff@20 plz

VictoryDance96Dec 20, 20155 votes

{quoted}

From my own limited experience the best supports from best to worst:-

Whenever I play bot lane those 4 are the most difficult to deal with. Leona in particular is almost impossible to win against. You just feed....

Honorable mentions:-

When you meet a good Morgana, its gg...ff@20 plz

You forgot about Thresh Thresh, Alistar Alistar, and Amumu Amumu

FioraWillCarryDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You forgot about Thresh, Alistar, and Amumu

They would be honorable mentions too.

Thing is with Thresh, I don't see too many good ones. A lot of times I get caught with a hook I somehow still manage to get away, sometimes with 1/2 life still. And unlike Blitz, his hook is telegraphed. Its not that hard to win vs the average Thresh player. But like Morgana, a good one is hell to deal with.

Alistar is more annoying that threatening. He has very good disengage and peel so with him its more about how many times you missed the opportunity to kill the AD carry because he peeled you off before you could get that last auto in.

Amumu would probably be right up there with Leona but I've never gotten to chance to go against an Amumu bot lane. I see him most in the Jungle.

But yea, these supports are top tier too.

kaltenashesDec 21, 20151 votes

amumu support? wut?

i'm rank 5 with him, i only played jungle, no exception (well there is aram)

does it work?

Aeolian MelodiesDec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

amumu support? wut?

i'm rank 5 with him, i only played jungle, no exception (well there is aram)

does it work?

Haven't faced one that I didn't stomp.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 20, 20158 votes

{quoted}

From my own limited experience the best supports from best to worst:-

Whenever I play bot lane those 4 are the most difficult to deal with. Leona in particular is almost impossible to win against. You just feed....

Honorable mentions:-

When you meet a good Morgana, its gg...ff@20 plz

List does not include TahmKench Thresh Janna . List automatically sucks.

FioraWillCarryDec 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TZR6NplE,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2015-12-20T20:50:10.140+0000)

List does not include . List automatically sucks.

OMG how could I forget Tahm!!!!

Here's the revised list (left to right = best to worst):- TahmKench Leona Soraka Sona Blitzcrank Morgana Thresh Janna Alistar

kaltenashesDec 21, 20151 votes

NOPS

HERE'S THE REVISED LIST whatever order you want

TahmKench Leona Karma Pantheon Annie MonkeyKing LeeSin Nidalee Sion Nautilus Orianna Nami Lulu Soraka Sona Blitzcrank Morgana Lux Braum Thresh Janna Alistar Bard Anivia Ashe

Aeolian MelodiesDec 21, 20156 votes

{quoted}

OMG how could I forget Tahm!!!!

Here's the revised list (left to right = best to worst):-

Janna being 2nd worse you gotta be high http://champion.gg/champion/janna

FioraWillCarryDec 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TZR6NplE,comment-id=00030000000100000001,timestamp=2015-12-21T02:36:15.208+0000)

Janna being 2nd worse you gotta be high http://champion.gg/champion/janna

Well to be fair, I made that list based on who I loathe going against if I play ADC/Supp. I know that Janna is considered a top tier pick by a lot of skilled people but at my level in normal games, she's just a nuisance really. I never feel threatened by her. With Leona on the other hand, I feel like I could die anytime in a couple seconds. That one mistake could net you a gray screen in no time flat. Same with Tahm Kench.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well to be fair, I made that list based on who I loathe going against if I play ADC/Supp. I know that Janna is considered a top tier pick by a lot of skilled people but at my level in normal games, she's just a nuisance really. I never feel threatened by her. With Leona on the other hand, I feel like I could die anytime in a couple seconds. That one mistake could net you a gray screen in no time flat. Same with Tahm Kench.

You're not supposed to be threatened by Janna, you're supposed to be threatened by the carry she's protecting and buffing.

FioraWillCarryDec 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TZR6NplE,comment-id=0003000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-22T01:23:42.759+0000)

You're not supposed to be threatened by Janna, you're supposed to be threatened by the carry she's protecting and buffing.

More times than not when bot lane goes on a feed fest, its the support making plays for the AD carry of the other team. Leona is far better at this than Janna. Leona is offensive where as Janna is defensive. That's how I feel about those two supports.

FioraWillCarryDec 20, 20153 votes

Sona is the only champ I have a +70% winrate on in ranked. Can't even do that with my main. Can't put my finger on why our chances of winning goes up when I play her but I'd bet it has something to do with her W since 90% of me playing Sona is running into team mates and spamming W.

LegacyDAPDec 20, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Sona is the only champ I have a +70% winrate on in ranked. Can't even do that with my main. Can't put my finger on why our chances of winning goes up when I play her but I'd bet it has something to do with her W since 90% of me playing Sona is running into team mates and spamming W.

Might as well play Soraka then. But if you ever go against Leona/Blitz it's hard as hell to win lane, and not to mention I also had to go against the most fed Wukong I've ever seen.

FioraWillCarryDec 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Might as well play Soraka then. But if you ever go against Leona/Blitz it's hard as hell to win lane, and not to mention I also had to go against the most fed Wukong I've ever seen.

I suck horribly with Soraka because its near impossible for me to land a Q during team fights and I always end up low on health due to all the healing. But I've seen good Sorakas play and its hell to play against a team that has a good one.

Sona is Soraka on easy mode because you gain health for healing instead of losing health.

Pika310Dec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I suck horribly with Soraka because its near impossible for me to land a Q during team fights and I always end up low on health due to all the healing. But I've seen good Sorakas play and its hell to play against a team that has a good one.

Sona is Soraka on easy mode because you gain health for healing instead of losing health.

Except Sona literally has the lowest numbers of any healer in the game. She grants a rock-bottom 30 HP every 10 seconds. Yet you're attempting to compare her to Soraka, who heals 120 HP every 4 seconds. These 2 champs are the complete opposites of the spectrum, I facepalm every single time I see them compared.

kaltenashesDec 21, 20151 votes

bah, soraka sona nami are the same

jk, i cant play sona, i'm rank 5 with nami, moderate on soraka (i can only hit soraka's skill shot when its in the middle of the fight, in the poking part i miss everything)

Pika310Dec 20, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Sona is the only champ I have a +70% winrate on in ranked. Can't even do that with my main. Can't put my finger on why our chances of winning goes up when I play her but I'd bet it has something to do with her W since 90% of me playing Sona is running into team mates and spamming W.

Sona's W has the lowest reward per cast on any ability of her entire kit. With a bit of advanced algebra, it was found that in comparison to pre-4.13, Aria's current effectiveness has been reduced by a staggering >97% after calculating every factor. The spell is not even worth putting a single point in, ever.

FioraWillCarryDec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Sona's W has the lowest reward per cast on any ability of her entire kit. With a bit of advanced algebra, it was found that in comparison to pre-4.13, Aria's current effectiveness has been reduced by a staggering >97% after calculating every factor. The spell is not even worth putting a single point in, ever.

I'm curious, how would you play her without her W. To me it seems central to her kit. Hell, its the reason I bought her. I wanted a healing support and Soraka takes way too much skill. Sona seemed easier because I didn't need to endanger myself to get back health like I would have to with Soraka, plus she also gives a shield with her heal when near allies.

Pika310Dec 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I'm curious, how would you play her without her W. To me it seems central to her kit. Hell, its the reason I bought her. I wanted a healing support and Soraka takes way too much skill. Sona seemed easier because I didn't need to endanger myself to get back health like I would have to with Soraka, plus she also gives a shield with her heal when near allies.

Out of the 8 healing champions, Sona's is the lowest in both base and scaling AND has the most expensive mana cost:

Sona 30 Base + 20% AP; 80 Mana item 3302 40 Base Nidalee 45 Base + 50% AP; 60 Mana Taric 60 Base + 30% AP + 5% Bonus HP; 60 Mana Kayle 60 Base + 45% AP; 60 Mana Alistar 60 Base + 20% AP; 40 Mana Nami 65 Base + 30% AP; 70 Mana Bard 70 Base + 60% AP; 90 Mana Soraka 120 Base + 60% AP; 40 Mana

Sona has the weakest heal in the game and is tied for lowest scaling. The only 1 with higher mana cost, Bard's doesn't increase with rank and he has higher base mana and a mana-restoring passive, making Sona's still more expensive.

As for her shield, this too is the weakest amongst all supports in both base AND scaling and has the highest mana cost AND shortest duration:

Sona 35 Base + 20% AP; 80 Mana; 1.5 Seconds Thresh 60 Base + 40% AP; 50 Mana; 4 Seconds Morgana 70 Base + 70% AP; 55 Mana; 5 Seconds Lulu 80 Base + 60% AP; 60 Mana; 6 Seconds Karma 80 Base + 50% AP; 60 Mana; 4 Seconds Janna 80 Base + 70% AP; 70 Mana; 5 Seconds

Not to mention, Sona's is the only shield that at 350-units is a melee-range ability.

Now, most people will try to use the excuse, "But she does both on one skill!" Except this is inherently flawed when considering a few facts: their combined value is 65 points, nearly every shield outclasses this total and most heals are close to or better than this whilst ALL having better mana costs. In addition to having either similar or better HP values, every single heal and shield other than Sona's has an additional bonus effect:

Alistar DoT AoE Bard Bonus MS Janna Bonus AD Karma Bonus MS Kayle Bonus MS Lulu Bonus On-hit Modifier Morgana CC Immunity Nami Bonus MS Nidalee Bonus AS Soraka Self-heal Passive on Q Taric On-hit Modifier Thresh "Grab the lantern, bro!" Sona Error 404

Aeolian MelodiesDec 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Out of the 8 healing champions, Sona's is the lowest in both base and scaling AND has the most expensive mana cost:

numbers, and stuff

You are not taking into account that Sona always heals 2 targets (herself + lowest nearby enemy), so of course the base is going to be lower than Soraka's. The heal is tuned with the existence of the shield in mind, AND it increases in strength the lower the targets are (something that you are not factoring in, like, ever, in those calculations).

As for the shield itself; again, of course if you look at the raw number without taking anything else into account, it blows. It's an AoE shield, so you need to take into account that 5 people might get it per cast, so 5x35 = 175 dmg prevented on your team. Hell, if you look at Lux's or Locket's shield and forget that they are AoE, they're also underwhelming as fuck. It's the ability to use it on a large part of/your whole team that makes them good.

Even if you're just bot lane with your ADC, her W is MINIMUM 30x2 dmg healed (I say minimum because the lower you are the more it heals so it's often going to be more than that) + 2x35 dmg prevented for a total of 130 (healed+prevented). It's not bad by any means. It doesn't look as huge as a heal as Soraka's, and it doesn't look as think of a shield as Janna's, because it does BOTH, and more than 1 person is affected by it.

Now if you wanna talk about something that's actually crappy on Sona, that's her E. Apart from being an okay one-point wonder ability, the skill is an utter joke. The rest of her kit sort of makes her for it, but honestly if you find yourself in a situation where you're relying on Song of Celerity for anything, things aren't going too well for you. The good part about it is the self buff. The AoE buff sucks.

MohawkBirdDec 21, 20152 votes

[deleted]

Pika310Dec 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. He is also treating the shield and heal as two separate abilities it seems too. When taking into account that she has a heal and a shield (plus she gives them bonus defenses) she actually gets 75 base +40% AP scaling.

So you're just going to blatantly ignore the last part of my post? The part that pointed out that the combined value(which is 65, NOT 75) is barely on-par with other heals and completely outclassed by shields? The part pointing out she has no secondary effect, despite being barely on-par/outclassed by everyone else? Sona is being punished for barely struggling to hold a candlestick to even the weakest of supports.

Good to see the narrow-mindedness of the bleating herd hasn't changed one bit.

MohawkBirdDec 22, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Aeolian MelodiesDec 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The bottom lane synergy graph on LoLKing actually tells me that she is doing very well in this meta. She boasts having an absurd**ten** amount of champion she synergizes with having an over 52% win rate with them. Hell she even gets as high 59% with Miss Fortune as her AD carry, which is high than every other support's win rate with that AD carry. As a matter of fact, let's look at her other green circled AD carries and compare them to the win rate of other supports with that same AD carry.

While I agree with most of your post, I'd take the MF stat with a grain of salt. MF herself is very strong atm, and Sona has always had good synergy with her (strong poke makes for a bully lane, ults mesh perfectly together). Their winrate together imo is affected by MF's own strength a lot.

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Last I checked, a slow doesn't stop Lucian from dashing. A slow doesn't stop Ezreal from blinking. A slow doesn't stop ANYONE from Flashing. Snares and Polymorphs on the other hand DO as a matter-of-fact stop ALL of these, but Sona cannot.

Leona: P - 35 Dmg; Q - 40 Dmg, 45 Mana, 11 CD; W - 60 Dmg, 275 Rng, 60 Mana, 14 CD; E - 60 Dmg, 875 Rng, 60 Mana, 13 CD; Ttl Dmg - 195-265

Janna: Q - 60-105 Dmg, 1.1-1.7k Rng, 90 Mana, 14 CD; W - 60 Dmg, 600 Rng, 40 Mana, 12 CD; E - 14 AD, 600 Rng, 40 Mana, 12 CD; Ttl Dmg - 120-165+14 AD

Sona: P - 27-41 Dmg, 550 Rng; Q - 40-80 Dmg, 700-~550 Rng, 45 Mana, 8 CD; Ttl Dmg - 67-121

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AUHkJgo5-the-support-class-a-side-by-side-comparison

Sona has the 2nd-lowest damage potential of the entire support class, this is numerical fact.

Except these jack-of-all-trade champions do matter-of-factly beat her in "all 5 areas AT ONCE:"

All of these "out-engages, out-disengages, out-damages(every support except Braum does this), out-heals and out-buffs" her. There's literally no reason to EVER play Sona when multiple champs are just blatantly superior versions of her.

Your damage calculations do not factor in the fact that a part of Q's dmg is tied to the empowered AA. Neither do they factor in the fact that Janna always maxes E first leaving Q at lvl 1 and W at lvl 2 for the most part of early game whereas Sona maxes her damage spell first and her passive's damage (which is a good part of her poke) scales with levels. You also did not calculate the fact that Sona will Q twice by the time Janna Qs once due to the CD, AND you did not take into account that Sona's Q hits 2 people whereas Leona's Q and Janna's W only hit one person. And so forth. Sona Qs and AAs constantly in lane. Janna's Q is costy and leaves her lane open to getting engaged on when it's on CD, Leona doesn't spam QEW but typically waits for an opportunity to engage with E, then she follows up with Q and W. Sona will do more damage than them in the long run based on her playstyle.

You clearly have a negative bias towards Sona. You're convinced she's shitty, and you know what, you're entitled to your opinion; but trying to make numbers lie is not going to help you.

I main Sona. I also happen to main Janna. NEVER. And I do mean NEVER. Have I outdamaged a Sona (even a shitty one) as Janna. And never, and again I do mean never, have I been outdamaged by Janna as Sona (even a beasty one, and even if I was playing bad that game) when looking at the "dmg dealt to champions" post-game stat. I have also never been outdamaged by a Leona even by getting my ass handed to me by a strong Leona player. The only times I've been outdamaged by the enemy support as Sona was when facing mages Annie Velkoz Zyra and so forth, generally when they built AP.

Bard neither out-heals nor out-damage nor out-buffs Sona. Thresh does not have any buffs, does not heal, and gets outdamaged by Sona (again, because he isn't going to Q-Flay you every time the abilities are up). Nami outheals Sona (in lane, due to maxing it first; will end with similar healing in the post-game stats), Sona buffs 5 people at once but Nami's buff gives a slow so let's call that a draw, Nami has better CC but does NOT outdamage Sona.

MohawkBirdDec 24, 20151 votes

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Aeolian MelodiesDec 24, 20151 votes

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I completely agree with about everything you have to say. And in regards to your response to my post about the MF, while she is strong, my point still stands because she still holds the highest or second highest win rate with most ADCs at the moment as well.

A lot of people just seem to be underestimating exactly what Sona can do. They don't see them healed for half the health bar and think her heal is shit. They don't see Sona locking down enemies for 5 seconds and think she's shit. That's just how I feel about it. People seem to think she's weak now when in reality statistics back up the fact that she's currently in a great spot. If her abilities were truly shit she wouldn't be performing this well.

Yes, I agree. People like Pika310 fail to realize that what makes Sona strong isn't ONE cast of Q/W/E, it's the short CD on the skill that causes you to poke down the enemy, heal up teammates in a fight, or allow your team to always be JUST fast enough to outrun enemies. And of course she won't heal as much as Soraka when she also damages/buff/shields/buff again/AoE stun/debuff.

Pika310Dec 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TZR6NplE,comment-id=00050001000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-21T02:47:21.393+0000)

numbers, and stuff

You are not taking into account that Sona always heals 2 targets (herself + lowest nearby enemy), so of course the base is going to be lower than Soraka's. The heal is tuned with the existence of the shield in mind, AND it increases in strength the lower the targets are (something that you are not factoring in, like, ever, in those calculations).

A few problems with that logic:

She does NOT heal 2 targets, that's intentionally misleading. She heals HERSELF and a single uncontrollable target. If she has no damage on herself, that half of the spell is lost and at the same time she's THE ONLY healer that CANNOT choose her target, despite being the weakest healer in the game.
Taric ALSO heals "2 targets," yet his heal is STILL on-par with every other healer, can CHOOSE his target and STILL has a bonus effect to boot. Sona is NOT unique in the regard of a multi-person heal, but is the only one who gets punished for it.
Regardless of the heal increasing with lost health, at its maximum value(45 HP) it is STILL the weakest heal in the game. Nidalee's is tied for the same base, but has higher AP scaling. When compared to pre-4.13, the heal only breaks even with its old base(40 HP) when her target is below 1/3 remaining health.

As for the shield itself; again, of course if you look at the raw number without taking anything else into account, it blows. It's an AoE shield, so you need to take into account that 5 people might get it per cast, so 5x35 = 175 dmg prevented on your team. Hell, if you look at Lux's or Locket's shield and forget that they are AoE, they're also underwhelming as fuck. It's the ability to use it on a large part of/your whole team that makes them good.

More flawed logic:

At 350-units, Sona's "shield" is a melee-range ability. It's unreasonable to EVER expect it applying to more than 1 other person, let alone an entire team.
I did look at Lux and Locket and here's what I found: Lux's shield has a base of 80, an AP scaling of 35%, mana cost of 60 and range of 1075 units. It's on-par with other shields DESPITE being AoE. Locket has a base of 90 with a range of 600 units. Neither of these are "underwhelming as fuck" as you put it, they're factually on-par DESPITE being AoE and NOT melee-range. Once again, Sona alone is being punished for something non-unique to her.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lux

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Locket_of_the_Iron_Solari

Now if you wanna talk about something that's actually crappy on Sona, that's her E. Apart from being an okay one-point wonder ability, the skill is an utter joke. The rest of her kit sort of makes her for it, but honestly if you find yourself in a situation where you're relying on Song of Celerity for anything, things aren't going too well for you. The good part about it is the self buff. The AoE buff sucks.

Yes, Celerity is a crappy skill, but mathematically it has the highest reward-per-cast out of all 3 spells. Truth be told it's her best spell, which is sad to say considering it's complete trash and a 1-point wonder. As in, "I wonder how the hell this trash made it out of testing?"

Aeolian MelodiesDec 20, 20152 votes

She has a very simple kit and she does very simple things as opposed to flashy things, so likely you're not seeing everything she's doing for her team.

Sona is also very unforgiving to play due to her immobile and squishy nature so playing her well requires excellent positioning against non-stupid enemies.