The new tanks and their 'niche' (and my problems with them)

Big Lincoln··8 votes·558 views

Since the tank update was announced, Riot has declared that they want to separate and distinguish tanks from each other. Which is fair; a lot of them, particularly the initiation ones, and it's a good goal to have so that these champions have reasons to be picked other than "My CC is better" or "I'm better for this early/mid/late game meta" and more on "I fit this team comp really well, I should pick this" or "I can really throw a wrench into their team if I pick this." And we've seen the fruits of this new direction for tanks most recently with Galio, Amumu, and now we have the three that I'm gonna speculate on. So, in order of their updates, I'll assume I know what Riot wants for each of these renewed tanks;

Galio Counter-pick to magic comps with his MR scaling. Strong peeling and good poke.

Amumu Amplifier to magic damage; presumably the highest synergy with AP hypercarries. (Didn't really change from before but it's more pronounced now, I'd say)

Maokai Using himself, his saplings, and his ult to occupy enormous amounts of space, possibly the heaviest zone control in the game?

Zac Disruptor to the extreme, forcefully repositions enemies with Q and R, probably makes for a good kidnapper. (rip skarner)

Sejuani a prank

My issue with these reworks is that their 'niche' or their supposed specialty takes a backseat to their very general strengths; crowd control. It's almost always just a minor part of their kit, or it just makes no sense with how the rest of them works. I can only speculate on the reworks as far as this go but I find it to be very noticeable on Galio, who feels like he wants to be a ton of different things; part of him feels like a tank, but he's also meant to be a fighter, but he's ALSO a poke mage. His 'anti-mage' shtick is just him stat-checking you with a lot of MR and a passive magic shield; the actual meat of his kit is far better suited for dealing with divers. He does a much better job at fending off a Xin Zhao than a Veigar; he just sort of survives the latter, without really doing anything special. And I think the same problem exists with Maokai, if you want to add more of an 'anti-caster' theme to him, too; nobody's gonna really care if all that happens is his passive just charges up a little bit faster around casters. He's still going to have 3 hard CCs between his Q, his W and his ult, and if those 3 hard CCs are good enough then he's still going to be a tank that fits into any comp, just like any tank with enough CC.

Before I start on Sejuani, I want to preface this with the fact that I am an avid fan of the champion, and a lot of this is incredibly reactionary speculation based on what we know, because I am particularly passionate about this project, I'll greatly appreciate any Rioter to ease my concerns on the subject. I understand that we probably know the least about her of the reworks, and I'll accept that I could be completely wrong and she'll become my favorite again, but I feel the need to vent about this anyway. Simply put; I hate how this new direction sounds, and I think it solves absolutely nothing that was actually wrong with her. Her high-impact ultimate wasn't a problem and I'm irritated that Riot thought it was. The real issue is that her standard kit has no interesting or remotely engaging play pattern. She jumps on you with Q if she needs to, presses W, she sits on you, and then she presses E off cooldown. There's very little counterplay beyond staying away from her, which becomes very hard when you account for her ranged stun ultimate and her fast dash.

The new E means that there's still not much counterplay, but now it's "avoid Sejuani and any melee champions that are close to her." What is the purpose of the melee-only interaction? Why is E restricted both to having at least one melee teammate and having him be competent enough to attack someone else so I can land multiple stuns? How reliant am I on this "melee teammate" thing? It's either you're going to be gimped without one, or it won't matter and the restriction shouldn't exist anyway. How does this play into her "heavy cavalry" shtick that Riot wanted to hone in on? I'm not seeing much reason to play her over anyone else with how the rework looks, especially if I have to play soloQ roulette and hope I get a team that'll pick something I can work with.

Zac.. is just great, honestly. I'm probably not going to play him, but this rework looks genuinely great. They didn't try to add anything new, no silly gimmicks or seemingly arbitrary restrictions, they just took what he already had in being the disruption king, and played it up in a way where a good player can be good with him. He is, at least until we see the reworks in full, my personal choice for the best rework of the three. My only concern is that now that his ult is potentially an AoE kidnapping, that Skarner is even more outclassed.

TL;DR Zac is great, Galio and Maokai need to have their niche things be more prominent, and I'm mad about Sejuani until I can play her for myself. Tanks in general should have more unique qualities.

Let me know how you feel about the tank reworks; do you think they're all great so far, do you think they could be better, do you hate them, etc.

8 Comments

Big Lincoln5 votes

And as for being 'anti-casters,' assuming we don't add a completely new move, Maokai could just have something like saplings activating if you cast a spell near them, and then if you cast more spells they'll run at you faster and hurt more if they reach you. Something like that; it's subtle, but it makes him feel like he's actually supposed to mess you up if you're a guy who likes to spam spells. He makes it dangerous to cast shit if he's managed to plant his little kids around the place. That'd make him actually proficient at shutting down casters without just outright giving him a silence.

It's too late for Galio but it would've been neat if he could absorb magic damage his teammates receive if they stand near him, or convert the magic damage he takes with his shield into a damage or defense boost. Something like that; anything besides just wanting to stack MR. Especially when he even talks about how he eats magic, how his whole character is based around him nullifying magic around him. It was a real missed opportunity.

Spoofghoul1 votes

nice maokai idea there i love it

as for the galio idea, i actually made and anticaster battlemage champion concept once who did just that, absorb damage and turn it into damage it got like 0 attention so i guess people don't really care that much

it was a really unique champion with very little offensive power until you attack him lol he was meant to push/waveclear and send damage back to where it came from and was really strong vs casters with a host of unique utility but lacking any actual hard cc. but instead had tools to enable his allies to deal with casters and protect them by body blocking skillshots or making it easier to avoid them.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/TFyvnzEI-champion-concept-haduum-the-void-golem-utility-battlemage

that was the concept in case anyone is interested

Teridax681 votes

I agree with this. I'll reserve judgment on Maokai/Sejuani/Zac for when their full kits get disclosed, but one of my issues with Galio is that he was given a ton of generic tank things, namely lots of dashes and AoE knockups, on top of preexisting damage and at the cost of his allied protection. As a result, he does a lot of things we've seen before, can't do things he could do previously, and just doesn't feel like he satisfies his fantasy at all, despite doing a bit of everything. He had a niche as a defensive backline tank, which naturally worked with his theme as a magic eater, and now he's a diver/tank hybrid with only a tacked-on and passive anti-magic theme, at a time where tanks are being criticized for having too much damage as well. As much as I love Riot's recent VGUs, Galio's is the only one I truly disliked, and the fact that he was taken in such an inappropriate direction raises concerns as to how the tank update is going to turn out.

Big Lincoln1 votes

yeah, Galio is a really big letdown for me. Feels like Riot wants to make counter pick champs but they're too safe about it

it's shame too because his skins and visuals are fantastic

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TXc2QKqX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-15T01:39:59.467+0000)

And as for being 'anti-casters,' assuming we don't add a completely new move, Maokai could just have something like saplings activating if you cast a spell near them, and then if you cast more spells they'll run at you faster and hurt more if they reach you. Something like that; it's subtle, but it makes him feel like he's actually supposed to mess you up if you're a guy who likes to spam spells. He makes it dangerous to cast shit if he's managed to plant his little kids around the place. That'd make him actually proficient at shutting down casters without just outright giving him a silence.

It's too late for Galio but it would've been neat if he could absorb magic damage his teammates receive if they stand near him, or convert the magic damage he takes with his shield into a damage or defense boost. Something like that; anything besides just wanting to stack MR. Especially when he even talks about how he eats magic, how his whole character is based around him nullifying magic around him. It was a real missed opportunity.

I just hate Galio because of getting facerolled and losing/barely winning no matter how behind Galio is. I play AD champions too.

I really gotta wonder why they thought making an ability than is made to oneshot minion waves without any sort of bonus damage to minions (like Yi has), and then putting it on a tank, was a good idea. His Q just has so much going for it, you know? Large AoE, long range, low cooldown, high base damage, high AP scaling, some random %maxhealth damage just cause, 'counterplay' which is very hard to pull off in game due to it's fast tick rate, large AoE, and high initial damage.

Taking 300 damage from 800 range from a tank is just bullshit. Not taking 300 damage from range, getting faceslammed by a high damage, very difficult to dodge E (I blame hitbox for this, this is one of the rare skillshots where it's a better idea to walk backwards out of range than it is to walk to the side, you've a better shot at getting out of it's range than you do of juking to the side, due to it's hitbox), then getting pounded by a point blank Q which just came off cooldown, and being forced to stay in it because of Taunt + E knock up (don't give me that bullshit about his Taunt lasting nothing if instant casted, it's .5 seconds, that's the same as Riven's knock up and .25 seconds less than Riven's stun), and slammed by empowered autos which really hurt, just makes me wanna kill myself.

LankPants2 votes

I'm definitely pretty annoyed about the Sej changes, they look like they'll just be overwhelmingly negative and the truly annoying thing is that Sej could be easily fixed with small buffs to weigh out the huge overnerfs that Riot gave her in Season 5.

Big Lincoln2 votes

I just hope she at least feels similar. I really like that she was more DPS focused than other tanks who deal all their damage in burst. And that she traded a strong defensive steroid for health scaling damage.

But she's the one we know the least about, so it looks like we'll have to wait until Wednesday.

Ralanr1 votes

Imo i think it would have been interesting if Galio had a silence. Not sure how it'd work though.

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