I am tired of being held hostage by trolls in champ select

freepointzs·Jun 5, 2015·106 votes·5,783 views

And having absolutely no available recourse to dealing with them. My options are to either go through with the game and waste my time plus lose LP.

Or que dodge and lose LP. In each case the troll is able to get away scott free. And Riot might say "but you can report him afterwards"....yah well guess what? That does nothing for me. I still have to lose LP and waste my time. A troll potentially getting banned in the near future does not save me from the troll in the present.

Take my last game for instance. I am first pick and I decide to go jungle nunu. Our second last pick insta locks in shaco with smite and says jungle. I tell him I was jungle. And he goes "didnt know you were jungle....because a nunu with flash/smite isn't obvious enough." What happens? Well surprise surprise we get our asses kicked all because of the shaco who ruined the entire team comp and team morale in champ select.

Give us a way to actually pre emptively strike against these trolls. Give us some option where it isn't get screwed a lot or get screwed a little.

109 Comments

58738074DEL1Jun 5, 201548 votes

[deleted]

TrídentJun 8, 20151 votes

Veigar approves. So does Karthus

WatermeatJun 6, 201514 votes

Stand your ground. Stick in the position you picked first, because that's the generally agreed rules. You locked in Nunu jungle, you take Nunu jungle. Shaco's the one who needs to take a different role, it doesn't matter if 'Nunu is better suited as support than Shaco is'. If you yield and take a different role, you just validated the Shaco's tactic. He was a troll and got rewarded for it. If you stand your ground, he gets punished by either being forced to take Shaco in a role he's not suited with, he's forced to dodge, or he's forced to double jungle, which he doesn't want just as much as you don't. 9 times out of 10, either the troll will yield + go to a different lane, or they/a teammate will dodge. If they dodge, leave the queue for 5-10 seconds, and requeue, and you'll have a different game sans troll. In the 1 in 10 games where that doesn't happen, just tough it out and go double jungle/double adc/double mid/whatever. Most of the time your team will be on your side cos you're higher in pick order and they'll get reported. If you dodge every time you get a troll, they won't get reported + so they won't get punished, so play the game, report them after, and get them banned.

Honestly, standing your ground works enough times for the lost games being a non issue.

CheckMyDoublesJun 6, 20159 votes

There needs to be a voting system to kick someone out during the draft phase. Make it require a unanimous vote and in the case of duo queues, remove their ability to vote if one of them is being selected.

It opens the door to potentially kicking out meta-breakers, or because of a poor team composition but I cannot stand that people who troll are not punished, such as the "mid or feed" people. They simply move onto the next round if someone dodges and continue that same bad behavior.

As to the people who are concerned about being removed for breaking the meta, I would argue this: It's a team game and if the other four players don't want you to play a certain champion for whatever reason, that's the right of the entire group to decide. If you want to play Zed support, that's fine. But if the other four players don't want that selection for that role, maybe another team will.

RoyaiChaosJun 6, 20152 votes

Trolls still wouldn't be punished in that case. They would just be able to join another que after getting kicked out. If they are punished, that would hardly be fair to meta-breakers/poor team comp/people who got countered/etc... People would continue to get punished because of trolls, but instead of losing LP or time, innocent people may now lose their accounts.

A better option would be being able to report during lobby.

The WhamboozlerJun 9, 20151 votes

Solo queue will be then ruled by 4 man premades who make demands of the one poor random guy they get grouped with, or they'll gang-report him and get him punished. No matter what, SOMEONE Will abuse the system and be a jerk.

A Miss FortuneJun 6, 20156 votes

I think Riot definitely needs to lighten up on the LeaverBuster system. Not once have I ever dodged a game just to troll people, but almost always because there was a troll in the game who autolocked Master Yi Support with Teleport and Ghost. I'm not a hater of off-meta builds and champions in certain roles, but I also know a troll when it's obvious that they're just going to level 1 kill themselves to the enemy jungler and then teleport back for more free kills.

I feel like the current punishment systems punish honest, respectful players more than they actually ever punished trolls.

blueberrypancakeJun 6, 20151 votes

I had a support master yi last game

it was a nightmare

our Jinx afked but they surrendered cuz everyone was fed on our team except me (the support)

Vistha KaiJun 6, 20152 votes

MasterYi Death is the best CC.

LakegaJun 6, 20155 votes

Riots excuse of "just report them after" doesn't even hold any water as an excuse seeing as how we all know reports do nothing other than give a little slap on the wrist with duct tape over your mouth for a limited time.

Is that really supposed to make me feel better that my game was destroyed because of this player?

H0riz0n234Jun 6, 20154 votes

Im sorry but probably never gonna happen. As you can see in game and how riot employees comment only on skin art and animations they aren't focused on fixing the game but making money off of it. Its broken but they dont acknowledge it because its not important. I will say someone is at fault and dont fall for we care for our players crap. The only thing they did was give us more skins and a new champ(and tweaking other champions I guess). Best to have a team in ranked with players you trust because solo que is broken.

ilD2Jun 6, 20153 votes

which is in large part the fault of the community. almost every time some one comments on the awful behavior of the community, they are attacked by people who have no other means at venting their anger, and are deterred from expressing their opinions due to the overwhelming amount of criticism on behalf of those who cause the problems in the first place. nothing will change unless those of us in the community come together to make a statement. which is highly unlikely. it sucks, but it's never going to change without the community expressing it's outrage. that, i'm afraid, will never happen. I hope I am wrong...

66499637_DELJun 5, 20151 votes

I think the Shaco is hilarious and you need to lighten up. It's just a game, who cares?

StraleyJun 6, 201528 votes

It's not funny if you're playing ranked and actually want to play a competitive match. I'm guessing you do this often?

ChaoticPineconeJun 6, 20152 votes

you still take a game way to seriously. go play nunu top, mid, or support. its not the worst thing - SKT used nunu top to win already this season.

ilD2Jun 6, 20151 votes

...huh? what are you even talking about?

ChaoticPineconeJun 6, 20152 votes

im saying that he chose Nunu, who isnt pigenholed into playing jungle. SKT1 has shown that Nunu can be a viable top laner as well - not only did they play Nunu top this season, they won with a Nunu top.

BhargoJun 6, 20153 votes

First off, that still rewards the troll for his behavior. All you have to do is ignore first pick and take the spot anyway and they have no choice but to acquiesce and hope they can do will in another spot. This isn't the type of behavior that we should just shrug our shoulders and accept.

Second, it's likely top was already filled.

ChaoticPineconeJun 7, 20151 votes

he said he was first pick. and either play with the troll or dodge. you can either complain or adapt. i choose to adapt by giving possible alternatives when a wrench is thrown in your plans, but apparently that gets downvoted here.

there are too many issues with any repercussions for this behavior - 1. people will abuse it if they dont like non-meta pics, 2. if riot really doesnt enforce the meta, nothing wrong with double jungle and 3 solo lanes, 3. sometimes it really is an honest mistake when youre not paying attention.

DrNovaJun 7, 20152 votes

^ instalocker

ChaoticPineconeJun 7, 20152 votes

actually, i generally fill - which has led me to become a support main.

DrNovaJun 7, 20153 votes

^ lazy instalocker

BhargoJun 7, 20152 votes

He was first pick, the troll was second to last. Fairly likely top was taken.

As for "complain or adapt", there is no adapting to trolls. Best case scenario you play a position you aren't set up for with a fairly large handicap. This isn't a wrench being thrown into your plans, this is a person going out of his way to sabotage your team because Riot still, after years of this happening, has not implemented a system to prevent it.

Also Riot totally supports the meta, they design champs around the meta, they tell you what lane to play champs in and if they succeed elsewhere they nerf them to oblivion ala support champs in mid.

ChaoticPineconeJun 7, 20151 votes

but their officlal stance is they want diversity, they want experimentation, and they dont strictly enforce the meta.

and fine - you can dodge and lose LP every time you see someone trolling. thats fine. if you cant adapt to playing a team game, well, thats you.

Nin10do0014Jun 8, 20151 votes

There is a clear difference between playing off-meta and going out of one's own way to sabotage someone else's enjoyment of the game. Riot supports players experimenting with off-meta play within reason, but Riot will strongly discourage trolling by forcing teammates out of their respective roles. Trolling shows a lack of respect and dignity to teammates by showing that the troll refuses to accommodate team needs; this is a problem with player behavior, not lack of adaptation from teammates.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

double jungle and double smite are hardly off meta. Especially when you have Nunu and Shaco, arguably the best two counterjunglers in the game.

Nin10do0014Jun 8, 20151 votes

That is not the point. Playing Double Jungle with your team's consent is perfectly fine. Forcing your whole team to play with Double Jungle is a violation of the Summoner's Code.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

please quote me to the section of the summoners code it violates, because i cant seem to find it. maybe it will fall under "4. Enjoy yourself, but not at anybody elses expense", but #4 seems more directed towards verbal teasing instead of unorthodox playstyle. Maybe "1. Support your team", but we have no idea if this Shaco double-jungle was being unsupportive - maybe the Shaco was doing more for the team than the Nunu, we dont know.

Nin10do0014Jun 9, 20151 votes

The code "Enjoy yourself, but not at anybody else's expense" is not restricted to verbal abuse; it applies to forcing your teammates to play unorthodox strategies without their consent is the violation of that code. If the Shaco forces a double-jungle without his teammates' consent, it is almost guaranteed that he does not care about the expense of his teammates' experience with the game. This is where the violation occurs. The Shaco has the privilege of playing his favorite role at the expense of Nunu's enjoyment of the game.

ChaoticPineconeJun 9, 20151 votes

id like a quote or something from that, because the examples given are only geared toward verbal abuse.

because the same argument can be said for any off-meta pick. Oh - your team doesnt want a heimerdinger top, so is that against the code too?

Nin10do0014Jun 6, 20156 votes

Asking players to maturely fill a role is not taking the game too seriously. It is a violation of the Summoner's code to hold others hostage in champ select by forcing your teammates out of their role after they have locked in. If you force your teammate out of role X, even though he has already locked in for X, then you are enjoying the game at the expense of his ability to enjoy the game.

ChaoticPineconeJun 6, 20151 votes

im not saying its the best outcome. its one where you have to accommodate. whether or not its against the summoners code or will garner a report doesnt help your current game. im just giving alternative options to your CURRENT game.

Nin10do0014Jun 7, 20151 votes

Here's the flaw in that argument. After someone of higher pick order has locked in, it is the duty of the other players to accommodate. Unless the person of higher pick order explicitly told everyone that he's being a flex pick (choosing someone who can fill multiple lanes, like Gragas), then the players of lower pick order have the responsibility of accommodating.

ChaoticPineconeJun 7, 20151 votes

then what do you do when they dont accommodate. heres a fact - people dont follow the rules. yes, it would be great if they did, but they dont.

as i said, im giving realistic alternative options for the current game, since a report at the end of the game isnt enough for the thread-starter.

Nin10do0014Jun 7, 20151 votes

And you're saying we should be the ones accommodating and giving the trolls more power, even though they are almost terrorizing Champion Select already. The more we give in to trolls, the less pressure they have to reforming themselves and the more power they have to ruin other players' experience with the game.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

a little bit of courtesy goes a long way.y ou want a game where this doesnt happen? be flexible and give people the position they want. a simple "ill fill, so say your roles quick" as a first pick makes this issue not happen. sometimes saying "hey guys, i suck at going ADC - can i switch with someone" works wonders as well. "terrorizing champ select"? by saying these things in champ select, i have been blessed with rarely any trolls in my game (i can remember 1 out of over 100 games, where we just went 5 ADC mid).

but if youre going to be pigheaded about it, and having the mentality that "making sure the trolls dont win" is more important than "playing a fun game", thats up to you. this isnt a terrorist organization here, where giving in ends up worse later. youll rarely play with this person ever again. roll with the punches and move on.

Nin10do0014Jun 8, 20151 votes

Being flexible is inapplicable when you have already locked in your role and Champion. Being first pick and saying "I'm willing to be a flex pick" is one thing. Being forced out of your role is completely different.

Our current system entitles the First Pick player to choose whatever champion and role he wants to play. This is not Blind Pick where everyone picks what they want ASAP. If I wish to play Jungle as first pick, it is my right whether I choose to play it. It is not everyone else's choice to lock in and force me out of a role that I have already locked in.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

If you dont accommodate or communicate with the rest of your team, then problems like this arise. saying its your 'right' to do whatever you want is what fuels this behavior - give people what they want, and they dont complain. be rigid in your choices and people do this kind of stuff.

Nin10do0014Jun 8, 20151 votes

By that logic, I should be getting what I wanted in the first place, and the trolls are being rigid as well. If the trolls are not accommodating nor communicating with the rest of the team, then problems like this arise. Even worse, many of them are doing so to incite tension amongst the team before the match starts. Giving them what they want only makes the problem worse.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

dude - you can complain, complain, and complain some more. but the fact is, these types of people exist. you complaining about them wont change that.

now, you can either adapt or accept the loss. it seems like youre hell bent on accepting the loss, which is fine by me. but for other people, my method is another way of solving this problem.

Nin10do0014Jun 8, 20151 votes

And how does giving in to the trolls solve the problem? That merely avoids the problem and allows it to persist. That is like blaming a rape victim rather than reforming rapists or educating people about the immorality of rape. It does not address the source of the problem. If we do not have a system to prevent trolls or to reform them, they will continue to ruin player experience with League of Legends.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

please explain your metaphor - how is giving into a troll like blaming a rape victim? I see nothing in common between those two situations, and comparing a sexual assault to an internet game is frankly pretty appalling.

we DO have a system - its called the end-game reports. are they extremely effective? no. but thats what the reports are there for. but that doesnt stop a troll from being in your game in the first place - which is where my advice is effective.

Nin10do0014Jun 8, 20151 votes

Blaming a rape victim rather than solving the issue allows the rapist to go without shame and gives people the idea that rape is not a bad thing to do. The concept here is that by blaming the victims instead of dealing with the source of the problem immediately and instead of preventing it from happening, the problem will persist and worsen over time. Applying this concept to League, if we blame the good players and say that they're just not adapting to the meta instead of dealing with the trolls, more players will have the notion that trolling is okay since it is the victim's fault.

And having a system that punishes players is simply not enough. Just like in reality, to enforce laws, our system not only have systems that punish criminals, but there are systems that prevent criminals. Simply having a punishment system is not sufficient enough to improve player experience with the game, especially with the negative bias in the human mind. If a player loses a game because a toxic troll ruined a game for him, the magnitude of emotional reactions will be greater than the magnitude of emotional reward from seeing the troll banned, especially since the victim does not receive word of whether his report warranted a ban on the troll.

Additionally, the report system is not sufficient enough since players must endure the turmoil of playing with a troll and most likely end up losing Matchmaking Rating and League Points, two things that players value. The report system gives players a chance to have a troll banned in exchange for a dodge, 3 LP, and a delay until their next game or in exchange for at least 15 LP, X amount of MMR, and at least 20 minutes of being in a game that the player will absolutely despise. If we were to tale a poll on whether a report, which does not guarantee a ban, is worth the exchange on any League forum, I can assure that the vast majority of players will agree that the reward for the report does not outweigh the cost of playing a game with a troll.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

this is nothing like blaming the rape victim. my suggestion is a preventative measure that has nothing to do with victim blaming - im not saying that the thread-starter did anything wrong. Im saying that there are measures that can be taken so this issue isnt ever brought up in the first place.

A better analogy would be not placing yourself in situations where you can be raped, instead of letting the rape happen and face the consequences (for both the aggressor and the victim) after the fact. Deterrents and punishment are only mildly effective - rape is still a felony that lands you decades in prison, but it happens anyway. And if people still engage in this conduct with real-life consequences, how do you propose that your 'deterrent-style' to be effective for a video game? (unless youre suggesting that people care more about their LoL account than their freedom).

and if you are not suggesting a 'deterrent-style' system, what are you suggesting? How are you going to find a troll before they troll? you can only change your own actions, not the actions of the others - by altering your own behavior, you are preventing the issue from arising.

Nin10do0014Jun 9, 20151 votes

How is your preventive measure not victim blaming? Your method places the responsibility of preventing trolls on the innocent players' hands, and those players have little to no control of preventing the troll from achieving its goal before the match starts. Your method basically says the innocent players are not responsible enough when the fact is that they do not have the power nor the authority to prevent the troll from achieving its goal. A troll does not care about how well-mannered everyone else is; a troll's one goal is to ruin everyone else's experience on the Rift, and there is very little to no influence that the other players are capable of having to change the troll's mindset before the match starts. Without an actual, systematic way to prevent the troll from achieving its goal, the troll has the power of being pseudo-anonymous with the internet to freely sabotage the player experience with little ease.

And there are clear ways to find a troll before the match starts. The OP already mentioned silent insta-lockers, upon which are widely frowned. Additionally, there are the verbally open trolls who will say "mid or feed," "duo give me ADC or troll" or who will start flaming in champion select chat before the game starts. Altering one's own behavior has little to no direct influence on a troll's behavior. If his goal is to ruin our experience, he will not care how well-mannered the other players are.

ChaoticPineconeJun 9, 20151 votes

its not victim blaming since IM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM HERE. im saying the situation can be avoided, which is very different from victim blaming. I dont understand why this is so hard to get. in real life, you dont walk through the streets of Oakland by yourself at night, do you? you dont accept opened drinks from people you dont trust. you dont leave your car door unlocked. you make a decision and make the better rational choice, and thats basically the advice im giving. take a couple preventative measures so it doesnt happen, because you cant control the actions of others.

and there are no ways to implement a system where you can punish trolls PREGAME that cannot be abused the rest of the population to avoid matchups/team compositions they dont like. If you have an non-abusable system, please give it.

Junsui AoiJun 8, 20151 votes

but why should they get what you wanted in the first place? why should I always have to fill so that I don't have a troll? do you see the problem there?

I'm not saying its their right. But say you really want jungle, and last pick asked for jungle too. Take jungle. You're first pick. Luck of the draw. You don't have to give it up just to not have a troll. But please say, "sorry man, I want jungle" or something to that effect. Don't just pick it and be like lol ur last pick noob. Or not say anything at all.

ChaoticPineconeJun 8, 20151 votes

No, i dont see the problem there, because you have a choice - 1) pick a highly contested role without communicating with your team and risking a troll, or 2) communicating with your team and being flexible.

Its a conscious choice that i make to take the uncontested role each game, or if the only role is ADC, notifying my team that im a horrible ADC and ask for a switch. You can always first pick jungle and the majority of the time you wont get a troll, and thats your choice. You arent forced to fill -- im just saying that choosing to fill will almost always avoid this behavior, especially if 2 people on your team are willing to fill.