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Why are demotions/re-promotions a thing in lower elos?

Seenan··3 votes·940 views

Everyone likes to merge bronze, silver, gold, and even sometimes plat into one big area of 'lol you're x, shut up noob'..x being the pre-stated leagues/tiers, so theoretically, even if you're g1, you can, even by a chance, get outplayed be a b1 (b5 may be pushing it)...So why do demotions even exist in that sense/low elo? Like, sure, bring me down to 0 LP, but demoting me or whoever back to the stone age because we could have a bad egg or two (hint: bad player or non-english vietnamese speaking player in our game) for 5 games consecutively (yes, it happens in low elo) is just demotivating and stressful.

This is especially because you have to undergo promos EACH time again once you work your way back up to 100 LP...After the 2nd time, isn't it obvious you've proven yourself to be better than that division you're currently falling back to? If you've fallen that many times (let's say, more than twice), and can still manage to work your way back up a division (to your previous/higher division), shouldn't that set a breakpoint or something? Like maybe plat or diamond onward that can be less lenient because those players are understandably good enough to get themselves out of their elo/bracket/league up to a bracket where even your weakest link has basic game knowledge or knows how to play/build to an extent where even their worst games are better than a low elo's better games.

It's also a matter of time wasted. Why do I honestly have to waste 40 minutes to a possible 2+ hours just trying to re-promo if I demote due to 5 consecutive trolls running rampant in my games or whatever?

There's also a matter of smurfs running around in low elos that either carry people/run a carrying service for $$$...or are just..bored and wanna go 22-5 with a Riven in silver or something as a diamond 1 smurf.

I find that the bad or foreign players tend to come out around 7am+ EST time until around afternoon time. Why? I don't know considering murrica's time zones aren't that different than Canada's.

EDIT: maybe this doesn't belong in game balance but..It'll be seen here without being discarded as 'QQ MOAR' for the most part (hi GD).

41 Comments

GroundRuleDouble6 votes

Why not just merge everything below challenger into one rank???

Oh yeah...because THEY'RE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF PLAY!

Tavish1 votes

{quoted}

Why not just merge everything below challenger into one rank???

Oh yeah...because THEY'RE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF PLAY!

It is kind of trolling to merge the bottom 3 tiers imo. A lot of people do this when there really is a difference between all 3. I have been in all 3 at some point or another and the difference IS noticeable.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

The only people that say there's no difference are the Plat snobs that think if you're below Plat, you don't have a say. Then they talk to a Diamond that makes the Plat feel like %%%% by saying the same thing about Plat and below.

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

The only people that say there's no difference are the Plat snobs that think if you're below Plat, you don't have a say. Then they talk to a Diamond that makes the Plat feel like %%%% by saying the same thing about Plat and below.

Yeah, but that's what I'm talking about. What's the percent of players that are above plat? Like 5% or something? But even if someone's gold 5 they'd act high and mighty over a Silver 1.

Honestly, I've seen some great players in SOME games. In other games, they're the ones bringing the team down. I'm confident that I have been that person from time to time cause I'm against a hard counter or they've played the lane tons of times beforehand or something. But honestly, it's pretty rare for the most part. Not to sound arrogant or stroke my e-peen.

WarlockLaw2 votes

Getting promoted is meant to be a challenge, it shouldn't be easy as that would defeat its point.

Also I have never been in a ranked game with a non-English speaker. I'm not sure when you play, on what server or what rank, but that %%%% didn't happen to me in silver

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

Getting promoted is meant to be a challenge, it shouldn't be easy as that would defeat its point.

Also I have never been in a ranked game with a non-English speaker. I'm not sure when you play, on what server or what rank, but that %%%% didn't happen to me in silver

They're already thinking of changing promos for next season. But in this topic I'm talking about DEmotions and having to re-promote 20 times cause lord knows you can't get a decent team without a little luck by your side.

Also, a few hours ago I was paired with 2 vietnamese (I think) players that didn't speak even the slightest bit of english. They were a duo (surprise, surprise). This happens pretty rarely, but it still happens and it's dumb as hell when it does. Ask viet jungler for ganks...Not even a 'stfu' or reply whatsoever. My team all-around did bad that game, including me cause J4 %%%%ed my day up as Cho @ top. I don't cho often.

WarlockLaw1 votes

Guess I misread what you said, I personally don't have much experience with demotions. I usually stop playing for a day when I hit zero lp and I don't play ranked very often so I think I have only been demoted once or twice

45796282_DEL1 votes

I think that a great solution would be player performance vs win loss. If I have a 3 kda in a losing game or am in with trolls I shouldn't be punished as well, despite a good performance.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

NEVER!!!! The goal of the game is NOT to get a high KDA. It's to destroy the nexus. You should NEVER get special treatment for individual performance. NEVER. I don't care what your KDA is, if you lose the game, you didn't play well enough.

Edit: Love the downvotes from people that blame their teammtes.

45796282_DEL1 votes

If your kda is 0/6/2... You fed which made the enemy stronger. You aren't really contributing anything for your team. Realistically, id much rather 4v5 then ever have this happen... That's givin away a couple free items

45796282_DEL1 votes

Not to mention your team us a lot weaker because of the low kda in team fights.Review your games and tell me how many you have won when two people have negative kdas. You yourself have to be super fed to win a team fight. Not to mention you can't challenge dragons ir barons.. Only hope is to steal it.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

If you're letting your teammates lose that badly, you're not doing your job. If you're winning lane, you can roam and help other lanes. There's ALWAYs something you can do better. And low KDA isn't what loses team fights...it's a gold disadvantage, which can be made up by farming well.

What's your main role? Unless it's ADC (and sometimes ADC counts), you can and should be helping other lanes before they turn to %%%%.

45796282_DEL1 votes

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lqe2EUfS1nk

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

Can't watch the video. However, I know kills are VASTLY overrated. Get 15 cs and you've made up for not getting a kill.

45796282_DEL1 votes

Oh, basically it said kills can be worth 100g to 3000g or more. If I kill you and push up a lane, I've got uncontested cs and you've lost cs and exp due to the turret killing yours. If I kill you, push the wave, and take dragon, I've got a significant lead on my lane and the whole team has a buff

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

And a lot of this is true once you get above gold. If you're gold or lower, many people waste opportunities kills. They get a kill and tp home instead of taking objectives.

However, I'm a mid main. I play Brand. If I see that bot or top lanes are losing, I force my opponent out, push up lane, then roam to bot or top and help snowball them. People all too often just sit in their lane getting kills and complaining about everyone else. Remember that it's a team game, and you should always be looking for ways to help your team, not just yourself.

45796282_DEL1 votes

The problem that I see in lower elos is people don't capitalize on opportunities. However, you NEVER WANT TO GANK A LOSING LANE if they have more than a few deaths. There are several reasons for this:

  1. Even if you get a kill, they will more than likely feed more - because if they have died multiple times they are outmatched.
  2. If you gank the stronger lane, more than likely you can get an objective out of it as well (tower). If you get the tower, he's free to roam after his wave is pushed up. So say I gank mid and we take turret even though bot is 0/5. He recalls, we both gank both and take the objective there or he roams and we take Dragon. Since the player is even/better than his opponent, the gank will give him the opportunity to snowball. 3)However, if the lane is fairly even in CS and is only behind a kill or two - then it may or may not be better to stabilize that lane with a gank and catch the player back up. The problem I see though, especially in bot, is that when the adc dies, the support may also die, giving the enemy adc a 2/0 and gold/exp advantage. If they do it again, giving up another kill, then the enemy is at 3/0 with the gold/exp lead and it's not worth 1 kill (maybe two if the enemy is cocky and pushed up). If that makes sense.. I'd rather gank the top that's 1/0 and take turret.
45796282_DEL1 votes

This is true, there are a lot of variables. My point is if you die, that particular player is making mistakes. Hypothetically one cannot babysit 1 lane from a bad player and do his lane as well. What's funny to me is when someone dies they lose 100- best case 2000 worst case and then go right back to trying to fight. This is a big disadvantage as it means half-finish completing an item.

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

And sometimes you get those idiots on your team. But after enough games, the normal far outweighs the trolls/idiots.

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

Depending on who the 0/6/2 champ is, most likely they have a lot to contribute. Very few champs have no CC or anything that can help.

Seenan2 votes

{quoted}

I think that a great solution would be player performance vs win loss. If I have a 3 kda in a losing game or am in with trolls I shouldn't be punished as well, despite a good performance.

3 KDA is a bit much. But more often than not, I'll catch myself with the only positive score/never the most negative score (unless I'm support).

How is it even fair that I get paired against a somewhat organized team that has not one negative player (or maybe one) compared to my team with all of us negative or all of us minus me negative? I shouldn't be penalized for dumb %%%% like that...or at least, I shouldn't be penalized at the same caliber cause of stuff like that.

I haven't even mentioned actual trolls in the OP. The ones that are going 0-3 top and start selling their items for 6 Doran's Shields and blatantly start feeding.

EDIT: Also, I'm sure they think the 'mmr' stat is the 'player performance' stat...Which is really, not the case. MMR is literally 'how well you win with a team' rather than 'how good you did'.

On top of that, there needs to be a tribunal cause I don't think my 'unskilled player' bans are working to iron out matchmaking.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

Assuming you are not a troll, flamer, or AFK, you have a better chance of being on a more positive team than the opponents.

Tavish3 votes

{quoted}

3 KDA is a bit much. But more often than not, I'll catch myself with the only positive score/never the most negative score (unless I'm support).

How is it even fair that I get paired against a somewhat organized team that has not one negative player (or maybe one) compared to my team with all of us negative or all of us minus me negative? I shouldn't be penalized for dumb %%%% like that.

Try to remember that rank is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Losing one game due to trolls sucks, but if you are a good player, then on average you will win more than you lose and that is literally all you need to do to climb. It is simple, don't overthink it.

arcinex2 votes

{quoted}

so theoretically, even if you're g1, you can, even by a chance, get outplayed be a b1 (b5 may be pushing it)

Lol. Never. Unless said g1 player was boosted or said b1 player is smurfing or boosting. Never.

{quoted}

Assuming you are not a troll, flamer, or AFK, you have a better chance of being on a more positive team than the opponents.

Disregard this ignorant comment.

[{quoted}](name=Garlic Bread Zed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TTElBoji,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2015-08-31T15:54:46.149+0000)

Try to remember that rank is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Losing one game due to trolls sucks, but if you are a good player, then on average you will win more than you lose and that is literally all you need to do to climb. It is simple, don't overthink it.

Best advice on this thread by far

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

Care to explain why you think my comment was ignorant?

If you are not a troll, flamer or AFK, you only have 4 chances of having one on your team. The other team has 5.

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

Lol. Never. Unless said g1 player was boosted or said b1 player is smurfing or boosting. Never.

Disregard this ignorant comment.

Best advice on this thread by far

Yeah, my win's been at least 52%+ all season. I climbed out of B2 from a whopping 8 promos, now I'm gonna demote from S2 8 times (it's been 3 or 4 so far) because of trolls or %%%%s.

45796282_DEL1 votes

I feel your pain, likewise

45796282_DEL1 votes

I'm silver and have dominated a plat, so it does happen in lane

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

I'm silver and have dominated a plat, so it does happen in lane

Same here, tbh. There was a diamond smurf ez that was in my lane...but the issue was, everyone ELSE fed him...So he got out of control and I couldn't even duel him or even chase/run away from him at some point after. It's like they've never dealt with Ez before.

45796282_DEL1 votes

3 kda is a lot for certain champs, I was just throwing out a number. Realistically a 2 -2.5 is decent. You are right though, the games are averaged so if you are consistently positive, it will show

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

3 kda is a lot for certain champs, I was just throwing out a number. Realistically a 2 -2.5 is decent. You are right though, the games are averaged so if you are consistently positive, it will show

My Syndra games are pretty stressful because since I pack so much burst and cc that I'm literally the key to winning the game for the most part. If I die, they can probably just end the game right there late game. But those games are among the only ones where I'm going like 19-4 or something of the >2 KDA range.

45796282_DEL1 votes

The point is, you can make smart plays and not feed. If someone fed their team and you are during you are not warding to see enemy movement or are pushing without vision. If someone is fed and you die to them, that's kind of your fault.Turtle and farm under turrets, at least under turrets you can cc and have turret damage on your side. Out of all the champs I mainly play my worst kda is a 2.6 and nest is around a 6. If you want to be a better player, dont die. Good example, how many deaths in a game do you see in a series?

45796282_DEL1 votes

I'm not saying that kda should be the only factor, but it should be one. Throw in objectives too obviously. The whole point is that if you pick a champ and have a horrid say kda for example: 1) your skill level is not where it needs to be at that particular elo for that champ. 2)you aren't showing experience in warding properly if you get ganked repeatedly or are making poor decisions in when or where to fight. 3)you are giving gold away to the enemy team, which makes them stronger and able to kill your TEAM more effectively.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

There should NEVER be any reward for losing a game. Do you want participation ribbons, too?

45796282_DEL1 votes

All I'm saying is that if you are consistently positive and capture objectives you shouldn't be punished as bad as someone who goes 0/10/3. If someone refuses to cooperate with the team and attributes virtually nothing, their skill level - not mine, lost the game. Can players get better? Sure.. But one person cannot carry a team against 5. Rare ocassions when you are super fed sure.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

Your opponents have a better chance of getting a feeder/afk/troll than your team. After a lot of games, your normal games will far outweigh the troll games.

45796282_DEL1 votes

Definitely agree if you are above average you win more. I take it as a lesson on what can I donext time diff vs the feeder

Sniper 02 votes

{quoted}

I think that a great solution would be player performance vs win loss. If I have a 3 kda in a losing game or am in with trolls I shouldn't be punished as well, despite a good performance.

The problem with this is, that league is not a team death match.

45796282_DEL1 votes

Sure, but you cannot deny the disadvantage that you put your team at when you die. Especially multiple times

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

And in baseball, you have a disadvantage when someone on your team strikes out. That happens in a team game. But that's exactly what it is. It's a team game. Not an individual game.

45796282_DEL1 votes

The only problem is this isn't baseball. It's a STRATEGY game. In baseball you get an out and have 2 more for the inning. In LOL, you die (give up gold), they push up the wave (give up gold and you lose exp), then take objective if able. Thus you may be a level behind, possibly an item behind (or at the very least half), and have no business trying to duel until you can either get a gank (if you haven't fed and let the lane push in) or catch up by out CSing your opponent until you're back on even terms.

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