Lulu nerfs: are they going anywhere?
#Disclaimer: contains a very long post.
For those who haven't seen the changes just yet:
Base health reduced to 515 from 552.76(source)- Whimsy (W)
- AP ratio reverted to 10% per 100 AP from 5% per 100 AP
- Speed buff duration reduced to 3/3.25/3.5/3.75/4 from 3/3.5/4/4.5/5
- Wild Growth (R) bonus health reverted to 300/450/600 from 200/350/500
The change last week (that so many people have complained about for some reason):
- Whimsy (W) AP ratio reduced to 5% per 100 AP from 10% per 100 AP.
- Wild Growth (R) bonus health lowered to 200/350/500 from 300/450/600
Yes, it is clear that her W ally cast is something that support Lulus don't really use W ally cast as much as enemy cast, so toning that down is aimed more at Lulu solo. "B-but she will have trouble trying to get back into lane!!!! :((((((" A lot of supports don't have that kind of speedboost luxury and still has 325 movement speed, so be glad that Lulu can do it.
Yes, I understand that the new base nerfs will hurt BOTH solo lane and support, though it hurts her supporting more. But again, do some research, and you will realize that she has one of the most base HP among ranged champions, which as a very safe solo laner... something's fishy. Thresh, Ryze, Draaaaven, and Lucian are the only other ranged champs with higher base HP at level 1 than Lulu does. For all 4 of them, it is very reasonable that they have high base HP values. Let's see who is below. Graves and Morgana. Both also have high HP bases to make up for their short AA range. But Lulu, who also has standard 550 AA range? No. Maybe as a support, it is very reasonable due to her lack of heals and range compared to that of backline supports, but as a solo laner, it is not. So that nerf is more of something that will have to be done sooner or later, whether we like it or not.
Yes, I also understand that many people use her ult for heals and saves (though IMO using it just to save is a total of a waste of spell, if anyone wants heals just pick Raka/Nami/or even Sona), so people made dozens of threads crying for reverts of that nerf. 100 HP taken away early game in a dueling scene is a very strong nerf, and that most solo Lulu players use their ults for the healing values. However, in a 2v2 situation, 100HP taken away from an ult whose primary purpose is a knockup/disruption tool isn't much, especially if timed at the START of the skirmish where at least one party will be knocked up if used properly. In fact, 200 HP early game is at most needed in a 2v2 situation, if it is used for very close saves and in the cases of emergencies. Though that nerf isn't the best solution to "just nerf solo Lulu and leave support alone", that nerf actually served its original purpose: to tone down Lulu solo lane capabilities.
#All that, though, not the main point. The main point of this thread is to highlight that the newer nerfs do nothing to solo Lulu's power.
Remember back in season 4 where they nerfed the W duration, especially early on? That hardly ever do much to any part of Lulu's soloing safety, other than "get back to lane at a much slower pace", which... is nothing. That nerf can be solved by simply maxing W before E. And this is exactly what the current nerfs still do;** it doesn't do anything.**
And for those that don't know the problem with Lulu solo versus Lulu support, and why Lulu solo should be nerfed while support should remain untouched, I'll go over this as well. Even though both has very different playstyles, both poke a lot early game, and their damages fall off late. Both can become useful later game because of utility, no matter how well or badly they perform during laning. Both are team reliant (though support is way more reliant), which makes Lulu any lane in any form of organized team play rather powerful.
However, Lulu support in lane is actually... not as safe as you think. Sure, she can be played as if she is taken to a solo lane, but at the same time, resources such as mana management becomes a lot more vital, especially because has another head to take care of. You have to choose between poking from a very safe range and drain your mana, or step in a bit closer to conserve mana for escapes while doing your job at once. You have to choose between pushing and harass cautiously so you and your laner can run away from ganks or just poke willy-nilly. You get choices, and have penalties for picking a side. If you can't do it correctly, the enemy ADC/jungler who may camp your lane will be very fed since botlane deaths mean 2 people dying at once, so twice the potential for snowballing. If you can do it correctly, sometimes it's not much because... no one dies. That's a weakness. That's a risk. And that's okay, because there is something to punish if she does badly.
Lulu solo doesn't have much of all that "fancy decision-making and risk-avoiding" tactics. You poke and shove the lane most of your time. Oops, draining mana too much? Just autoattack and farm while you wait for your mana bar to refill once again. Oh right, do you need to get a mana regen item? Hmm... there's no one toplane and the wave is pushed, so leaving anytime like this is perfectly fine, you get your own EXP anytime unlike your "shitty" support conterpart who is always EXP-starved anyways. Got ganked? Q at something, and speedboost yourself; it is much easier than trying to peel for another person with very limited tools. Got camped? Enemy laner won't snowball as hard as if you got camped botlane, so it's only not as bad. There is very little risk involved. There is very little punishable weakness. (I don't really play Lulu top, so please don't beat me up for slight misconceptions)
#This is what needs to be toned down. I don't care how entertaining or boring it is to watch or play as Lulu top/mid, but given her amount of safety, especially in a solo lane, it is something that should be the main thing that should be addressed.
It is perfectly fine to pick a champion for more utility over damage, but it is not okay when that pick has very little risk involved overall. That also includes certain base values that Lulu solos use more, and something that Lulu supports don't use as often. Not her speedboost. And not just her base HP values.
So, what does it mean?
Sometimes, nerfing certain parts of Lulu's supporting capabilities is necessary, though it should at most, be something that she doesn't use from a support standpoint. That also means those teeny-tiny-wrist-slap nerfs will not do anything to tone down Lulu solo's power. Variety is great, versatility is just as great (and again, Lulu jungle is a lot of fun), but there has to be some form of trade-offs.
Laning safety is a luxury that primarily Lulu solo laners get, and something that Lulu supports will hardly ever have unless against stupidly easy matchups, or just as stupid enemy teammates, which is really the only difference between Lulu solo and Lulu support. Yes, nerfing Lulu solo will have to nerf her supporting abilities, because after all, it's the same champion with completely different playstyles. And yes, there is a way to make sure her solo laning capabilities is nerfed so she is no longer 100% pick/ban, while not doing much to Lulu support. I have read a lot of interesting ideas, most of them are great (and if not better than Riot's current changes).
##So, please, just calm down. Before you start stabbing someone (me, Riot, or just anyone disagreeing with you) simply because it is a "nerf", consider looking at things at a bigger picture. Consider the purposes of certain spells, the strengths/weaknesses of champions and how they function in different lanes, the question: "why pick this champ in x position?", and even other players that just plays a different way.
You remembered what happened to Lux and Veigar because of waves of community complaints, of people that don't even utilize such champs properly, and how they got "overbuffed" because of the overwhelming waves of community complaints, THEN getting Veigar nerfed due to the unnecessary buffs. We don't want another "perfectly fine thing" ruined simply because of the community who don't even play such champs, or simply because of a popular playstyle.
My big fat 2 cents about these Lulu nerfs right now. Thoughts?
#TLDR: (sorry for the long post)
- Current PBE changes do nothing to make people not pick Lulu solo; she will still be a 100% pick/ban anyways.
- Lulu solo has very little real weaknesses, while Lulu support has them: laning.
- Nerfing Lulu solo will have to involve nerfing Lulu support to some extent, and we can't avoid that. Yes that involves nerfing base values.
- I am not looking to gut Lulu solo out of viability, but is only to tone down her safety and to give her an actual weakness.
- Versatility is great, but if one of the options has very little weaknesses, that's the problem.
- Quit whining over something that doesn't affect Lulu support as much as Lulu solo.
I'll just leave this here:
early game power, especially on a self sufficient ranged harass laner like Lulu can be felt more than late game AP ratios. So buffing her base and nerfing her ratios could end up buffing solo lane Lulu even. Number tweaks that don't matter happens... and she retains her amazing CC/engage/peel/damage mitigation the reason she's ultimately picked.
[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TPqBvuYW,comment-id=0002000000030000,timestamp=2016-03-15T21:31:42.307+0000)
Lulu solo was able to be fairly strong in lane because of base values, when almost everyone (including her) has little to no scalings. Buffing any form of early base damage would only give her much more ability to waveclear and safety in lane, and that's not what we want.
