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Why does Zed gain bonus damage passively on his W?

SaltyToplaneGoat··4 votes·1,212 views

Like, it's not like he needs it in any kind of way. Also... are you aware how much that is? 25% bonus AD? That's like giving any AP mage a free deathcap into their kit - This actually happened before and was considered so toxic for balance that they broke the champion's kneecaps right after (metaphorically speaking as said champion has no knees). Poor Cass...

But my question still stands: Why? This passive is completly unnecessary as Zed can assassinate and outplay you even without that bonus. Heck, I bet some people even don't know that he gets all that free AD and are just wondering where the hell Zed gets all that damage from?

Not to mention it makes the champ artificially more opressive by adding unnecessary snowball power. Zed is already super good at farming, poking, roaming, is basicially resourceless... why does he get the best snowball-stat-modifier you can get too? I don't understand it.

Wasn't Riot all against hidden power? This is massive hidden power right there.

22 Comments

Verxint6 votes

It boosts his lategame without making him broken in lane. Since its on the skill he ranks last, he doesn't get it until lategame.

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

Where the procentual damage increase is at its strongest. Wow. Too bad he doesn't have a single tradeoff early for that massive bonus late...

Verxint1 votes

You're thinking backwards - it's not a massive bonus late, it's what keeps his lategame relevant. Otherwise he'd need higher bases or higher AD scaling, which would make everything you dislike about him worse.

It basically gives him scaling AD scaling so that he can have good enough damage lategame that isn't available midgame. It's actually a form of restraining him.

CreationFlaw2 votes

Cause fuck other assassins amirite

Sneakyy XD2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TNqsMWos,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-12T18:36:19.416+0000)

This is massive hidden power right there.

How? It's right in the tooltip.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Hmmmm can I read tooltips other of the champion I'm playing? I don't think so.

You might want to look up the definition of that term in terms of game design.

Sneakyy XD1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TNqsMWos,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-01-12T19:28:30.014+0000)

Hmmmm can I read tooltips other of the champion I'm playing? I don't think so.

Well, yeah, you can.

But even if we assume you can't, that means all the power of every champion is hidden.

Abyssphere2 votes

Damage-dealing champions with non-damaging abilities typically get passive bonuses on those abilities so that when they get around to maxing them late game, their damage doesn't fall off a cliff. Zed gets bonus AD via his W, Zyra gets CDR via her W, Elise gets extra on-hit damage on her E, etc.

If he didn't have the % damage amp he'd most likely have a stronger early game than he currently does.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Damage-dealing champions with non-damaging abilities typically get passive bonuses on those abilities so that when they get around to maxing them late game, their damage doesn't fall off a cliff. Zed gets bonus AD via his W, Zyra gets CDR via her W, Elise gets extra on-hit damage on her E, etc.

If he didn't have the % damage amp he'd most likely have a stronger early game than he currently does.

Except Zed still gets dmg with his W. As well as mobility. And zone control. And extra slow. And extra range.

Abyssphere2 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TNqsMWos,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-01-12T21:35:41.703+0000)

Except Zed still gets dmg with his W. As well as mobility. And zone control. And extra slow. And extra range.

But whether you have that ability at level 1 or 5 is irrelevant to how much damage it does, because that damage depends on the ranks of your other abilities. It's the same for Zyra, where her W contributes damage but only through Zyra leveling up herself.

Riot doesn't want champions to hit their peak at 13 and then not gain any power at all for the rest of the game except at 16. Maybe the value on Zed's W passive could be lower or it could be replaced with something else, but I doubt it'll ever be gone without something else taking its place. Same for Zyra's. Champions need to have kind of overwhelming early/mid games if they're lacking late game power spikes.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

But whether you have that ability at level 1 or 5 is irrelevant to how much damage it does, because that damage depends on the ranks of your other abilities. It's the same for Zyra, where her W contributes damage but only through Zyra leveling up herself.

Riot doesn't want champions to hit their peak at 13 and then not gain any power at all for the rest of the game except at 16. Maybe the value on Zed's W passive could be lower or it could be replaced with something else, but I doubt it'll ever be gone without something else taking its place. Same for Zyra's. Champions need to have kind of overwhelming early/mid games if they're lacking late game power spikes.

The cooldown of his W goes down. That means more repositioning, more mobility, and more poke. And more damage, and less chances to catch him out.

Balthid1 votes

It multiply's bonus AD. Deathcap multiplies total AP.

Completely different

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

Oh wait, i forgott hat it is the even stronger stat.

Ya can't use your AP on a undodgeable skill every 1,2 seconds...

Balthid1 votes

Thats not stronger rofl. Zed will get bonus 40-60 AD from his W at level 18. Deathcap will give you bonus 160-230 AP at level 18. not even close.

Also he is a melee champion, so yes his auto attacks are dodgable. Most mages have the luxury of being ranged so that makes up for them not have stronger auto attacks

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

{quoted}

It multiply's bonus AD. Deathcap multiplies total AP.

Completely different

They both multiply off bonuses, since any AP you ever get is from items, runes or any passives. You don't get a base AP value like you do with AD.

Balthid1 votes

  1. This doesn't even matter because even if Zed had 0 base AD his W would give him the same amount. Base Ad doesn't matter here.

  2. The amount of AP you can get vastly exceeds the amount of AD you can get.

  3. Deathcap gives an insane amount of AP to any AP caster compared to the amount of AD zed gets.

  4. riot has stated why they will not remove his bonus AD on his W. Since mages and ADC's have such easily accessible ways to straight up nullify zed's ultimate completely. item 3139 item 3157 . If this happens (which it usually does every single game, or at least at my elo it does) then he basically has to deal damage with no ult in team fights. Hence his bonus AD to compensate for that

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

{quoted}

  1. This doesn't even matter because even if Zed had 0 base AD his W would give him the same amount. Base Ad doesn't matter here.

  2. The amount of AP you can get vastly exceeds the amount of AD you can get.

  3. Deathcap gives an insane amount of AP to any AP caster compared to the amount of AD zed gets.

  4. riot has stated why they will not remove his bonus AD on his W. Since mages and ADC's have such easily accessible ways to straight up nullify zed's ultimate completely. item 3139 item 3157 . If this happens (which it usually does every single game, or at least at my elo it does) then he basically has to deal damage with no ult in team fights. Hence his bonus AD to compensate for that

Why are you bringing irrelevant things up? You said death cap increases total AP while his W is only bonus AD so they were different, even though Death Cap is based off Bonus AP just like his W. I don't care what else you wish to state, the point of my response was to point out you were wrong.

Balthid1 votes

except im not wrong. The amount of AP you can get vs the amount of Ad you can get is vastly different. Hence why deathcap is an irrelevant comparison.

I have made valid points as to why Zed deserves his bonus AD.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

its almost like 600 damage on Q, 1 auto for 400, and 1 E for another 500 isn't enough damage right off the bat to kill a carry, "just remove the death mark"

lets not mention the fact that he can stick with bork or ignore what little armor a carry can build.

or the fact that using R just means he guarantees damage from the rest of his abilities to begin with....

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

It multiply's bonus AD. Deathcap multiplies total AP.

Completely different

Deathcap could say "Bonus AP" and it would not function any differently to how it currently does.

Balthid2 votes

The amount of AP you can get vs the amount of Ad you can get is vastly different

Lissama1 votes

Because he literally has no Ultimate in late gameitem 3157 item 3139

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