Who decided these refund prices? Older players are just SOL?

Eedat·Sep 1, 2017·187 votes·4,650 views

100 IP for a tier 3 rune and 400 for a Quint? Who exactly was in charge of this decision? I'm really glad I spent 7380 IP on Hybrid Pen marks to only get 900 back. Thanks for giving me 1200 IP for my Flat HP Quints that I spent 6150 IP on. How very generous of you Riot.

"BUT OLDR PLAYRZ USED FOR LONGER HEHE"

Good to know that supporting your company for a long time means jack shit. Seems you want to cater to newer players because you already got our money right? Even though we put just as much effort into earning each and ever single one of those runes?

Is it worth it Riot? Is it worth pissing off all your old players? I'm actually dumbfounded by the fact that you even *considered this as an option.

Are your trying to one-up Valve's Artifact teaser or what? Did you need to make a new meme of yourself after Rengar's Q or something?

126 Comments

dunder killSep 1, 201736 votes

Are your trying to one-up Valve's Artifact teaser or what?

Too soon......we're never going to get HL3......

ModCaptainMårvelousSep 2, 201720 votes

Samurai Jack finishes and concludes. Hey Arnold getting a new movie. Age of Empires 4 Final Fantasy 7 Remake Doom franchise revived. Half Life 3 dies in a fucking "Dear John" letter.

TwitchInMyPantsSep 2, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Samurai Jack finishes and concludes. Hey Arnold getting a new movie. Age of Empires 4 Final Fantasy 7 Remake Doom franchise revived. Half Life 3 dies in a fucking "Dear John" letter.

Its kinda sad we live in a reality where Valve went from being amazing game designers to relying on community made skins to print money in free to play games so they don't have to make anything new :V

Justice JustinSep 1, 201724 votes

Dude, i made a full crit damage page that is over 25000IP, i'm incredibly disappointed that they won't even give me back 5000 for it. It's ridiculous.

At least give us a refund with a percentage of what we paid.

Painted CeltSep 1, 20178 votes

Exactly, I also have a full crit damage page purchased at the old high costs and I have also spent IP on rune page slots. Riot is penalizing veteran players who don't have spare IP and have chosen to invest their IP in their runes rather than champions over the years. This is bad public relations. It's not even like they have limited IP reserves to refund us.

JustARivenMainSep 1, 201716 votes

I've spent more Ip on runes than champions, wayyy before the price reduction, hell I bought the t2s and t1s back then too when I was first leveling.

Painted CeltSep 1, 201712 votes

Yeah, it's bull shit. I am severely disappointed with Riot. I don't have all that many champions unlocked, but I have spent tons on runes, including an uber expensive full page of tier 3 crit damage runes (I liked crit old Sion, Tryndamere, and old Critplank), not to mention Rune pages purchased with IP. I even paid higher prices for my runes considering that they used to cost even more. I feel completely ripped off and now regret choosing to invest so much of my IP in runes instead of expanding my champion collection. I agree the rune system is garbage and should be retired, but I spent my IP under the expectation that it was an investment that I was forced to make. If I knew they would be retired like this with terrible compensation, I would have minimized my investment into runes and would have never purchased Rune Pages. As veteran players, we should feel valued.

What is the excuse? Riot, don't tell me this is the best you can do... You can't "run out of IP" to refund us... What are you expecting to gain from this decision?? I bet someone just doesn't want to do the work of creating a script that considers every type of rune when calculating the total refund amount...

WalkingInACircleSep 1, 201711 votes

How does anyone care. I have more IP than I want to spend.

Sir FuzziSep 1, 20173 votes

This, it's IP. I'd have gone for a thing like where we got Riot Kayle for being nice. Give us like... a Ryze skin. I dunno.

I'm bound to get like 2000 IP and I still don't know wtf I'll do with it.

EpicanianSep 2, 20173 votes

Did anyone actually watch the video? They're opening a temporary blue essence(IP) store for people with too much IP. One of the things you can buy is URF warwick.

2Charmnot2CharmSep 2, 20174 votes

for 150k ip yea. I'm only getting 20k back so the shop is not going to be that useful for me.

Painted CeltSep 1, 20174 votes

If you are overflowing with IP, then it doesn't matter whether Riot refunds nothing or 10,000% of the rune value. Either way, you aren't going to spend RP on champions when you have excess IP. Riot's decision of going cheap with the IP refunds only leaves players who do not have spare IP feeling cheated. There is no reason for it. They haven't "run out of IP" to refund us.

MefagarSep 2, 20173 votes

I don't feel cheated, i'm happy the game renew itself an will attract new players, it means having a lot of champs and some rare skins my account gain value. I'm getting something back for runes and rune pages i bought back in season 4 and 5... So i can buy more champs. I used them everyday. So i'm not sad. I don't understand how people are complaining if they are playing for longer than me then i don't see how they did not already obtained all the champs. And if so they should have an extraordinary amount of IP. Or are they just cry babies that play once a week ? They already are giving millions of dollars worth of IP. This means a lot of people will be able to buy champs or skens/chromas... W/e they want ! Idk how people can complain >.<

HalcyonDwellerSep 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Or are they just cry babies that play once a week ?

How is frequency of play relevant to deciding who's opinion matters on this issue?

That sounds to me like you just dont want to have to argue your point so you chose to preemptively insult and dismiss an entire group of people who would be likely to disagree with you.

MefagarSep 3, 20171 votes

Frequency of play matter if your point is : i'm an older player, i gave my life to this game, my opinion matters more than the one of new players. On the matter i think the players that are more rewarded are new players that bought runes in 2017 and old players that alreay have everything. The players in-between feel betrayed cause they bought runes but still don't have all the champs. But the poster said he feels bad because riot opens a special shop only for rewarding really old players and that he doesn't have the same amount of IP than them... It makes no sense to complain for this. I'm always open to arguing, i agree i might have gone too far with this sentence, sorry. But I am trying to open the eyes of this group of people nonetheless. By arguing.

IcyPepperSep 2, 201710 votes

How does anyone care.

because...

I have more IP than I want to spend.

Individual anecdotal experience does not speak for an entire group

:^)

UnboundHadesSep 2, 20172 votes

damn its almost like theres gonna be a shop with stuff u can buy with ip(blue essence) and they are giving use change back

Very Hard EngageSep 2, 20178 votes

already told them, 1:1 or anything less was an insult. you should only be offering even more for long term dedicated players.

thanks riot for the middle finger.

DeathBurstSep 2, 20176 votes

Asking for 1:1 is what is an insult, to common sense. You spent your IPs, and you got value out of it. Why would you get 100% of it back?

RhaastafarïanSep 2, 201710 votes

I bought Runes for permanent use. They didn't come with an expiration date lmao.

This is like saying "oh you bought a game on steam then steam took the game away from you after you played for 200 hours? You got your value lol! Why should you get your money back?"

KhristophorosSep 2, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I bought Runes for permanent use. They didn't come with an expiration date lmao.

This is like saying "oh you bought a game on steam then steam took the game away from you after you played for 200 hours? You got your value lol! Why should you get your money back?"

Think of it like this. Riot is trading out all your runes for new and more fun runes. But at the same time they're going to give them to everybody else for free.

But on top of that they're giving you some blue essence even though you aren't going to be losing any strategic options compared to other players.

And A Real HieroSep 2, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Think of it like this. Riot is trading out all your runes for new and more fun runes. But at the same time they're going to give them to everybody else for free.

But on top of that they're giving you some blue essence even though you aren't going to be losing any strategic options compared to other players.

That is almost 500k IP I could have spend on champion instead of runes, the older players who invested in champs do not get fucked over.

DeathBurstSep 2, 20171 votes

Let's admit for an instant you spend those 500K IP on champs and you didn't buy Runes. How would you have played these past couple years, with all your shiny champs and no Runes to equip them?

And A Real HieroSep 2, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Let's admit for an instant you spend those 500K IP on champs and you didn't buy Runes. How would you have played these past couple years, with all your shiny champs and no Runes to equip them?

Tier 2 runes. But to be fair, I only play champs I like. Which aren't many, which is why I have so many runes. Now I'm getting shafted for the way I play.

DeathBurstSep 2, 20171 votes

You don't get shafted. You played for 2 years with those Runes, and you're getting something like 30% of your IP back. Which you won't use anyway, because you don't play many champs. What do you need that you would've bought with IP that you won't be able to get? Nothing.

And A Real HieroSep 2, 20174 votes

Dodge runes got removed 3 years after they were created. Guess who got a full refund on those runes? Whats different today?

HalcyonDwellerSep 3, 20171 votes

Older players were affected the same as you, just because they are past the bullshit it doesnt mean it's ok that it happened to them and that they shouldn't receive compensation for it.

Don't be a dick. Its not like they are arguing that you should receive less.

And A Real HieroSep 3, 20171 votes

Uh you're arguing with the wrong person. I want a reasonable refund not the shit they're pulling now lol.

Very Hard EngageSep 2, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Asking for 1:1 is what is an insult, to common sense. You spent your IPs, and you got value out of it. Why would you get 100% of it back?

let me put it this way to you, you have a digital item, the fact that its digital means its good forever, so long as you can store it, you can access it use it as much as you want so long as you decide to keep it.

riot is taking away our content and giving us something new. thats up for debate whether or not were getting something of equal, lesser, or greater value.

riot is keen that "everything is going to cost the same, only its blue essence instead of IP" that is the direct relationship right there, which they are giving us.

we are being shafted in the trade.

any makeshift justification of "well you had value out of them for years and you did things with them" is debunked instantly from the notion that we bought a **permanent ** item at the time that we would be able to use them forever and ever and ever.

we no longer have that option.

riot is reaching into your home, on your storage shelves and taking all the canned food you bought and kept for years is replacing it with tasty looking fast food.

you are being shafted under the pretense that you're making out like a bandit and getting a bunch of stuff for free, but you're completely overlooking the fact that they are taking your hard spent TIME AND EFFORT, oh i dont know, ~200k IP is roughly 3300 games(60ip, avg'd for wins/losses), less if you count first win of the day. and they're giving you an "equilent value" of ~800 games worth. so tell me where did your 2500 games go?

right out the window and into the trash. for riots benefit, not yours.

if they decided to delete a champion which costed 6300, like idk, ornn, because it was so outrageously underpowered/bad. and decided to "refund" you for 450IP. and their justification was "you can go buy ashe instead" "for those of you who got to enjoy him for a month consider that the IP difference"

now whos in the red? RIOT.

want to know whos still in the red with the runes "refund"? RIOT!

DeathBurstSep 6, 20171 votes

Considering the Runes used inside a game as an Item that you own and you should be able to use as you please is kinda ridiculous.

First, on a technical level, that's wrong. You don't own anything. If tomorrow Riot closes and shut down all the servers and you can't play LoL anymore, you won't be entitled to any access or back up of your Runes or anything like that.

Second, even if we're not pedantic about it, it's an in-game item in a video game, for fuck's sake! It's not canned food on your shelves. It's not even music on your hard-drives. If Riot was deleting your music from your hard-drive, you'd have a good reason to be angry, you wouldn't be able to listen to your music anymore. But your Runes? You can't use them for anything, that's not a good, that's not an item that you own. It's just a line of stat in a game. It's not "content", and presenting it that way is dishonest.

any makeshift justification of "well you had value out of them for years and you did things with them" is debunked instantly from the notion that we bought a permanent item at the time that we would be able to use them forever and ever and ever.

No, that's not true. Your "permanent" item was always limited to the lifespan of the game, at most. It was ALWAYS implicit that you wouldn't be able to use your Runes "forever and ever and ever". And this time, this is not me being pedantic again, it's an actually important point. Imagine an online game with no subscription, just an initial buying price, like Warcraft 3 or the like. When such a game closes their server because it's too old and no one is really playing anymore, they don't refund all the people who bought the game. Your "permanent" access to their servers was never really ACTUALLY permanent, and they have the right to take it from you whenever they want. And when Blizzard made Starcraft 2 free-to-play, they didn't refund all the people who bought the game before.

It's exactly the same here. Runes were a fee you had to pay to be able to compete on fair ground. Runes are not content. Buying Runes is not buying items, it's just buying the right to play the game (in good conditions). And you DID play the game for all those years since you bought Runes. Now Riot is making the game "free-to-play" (let's not forget we're not even talking about real money), and they have no obligation to refund the people who bought the Runes before, who paid the fee years ago.

Because Riot are not ass-holes, they are giving a partial refund, but this is purely out of good will. They had no obligation to do it. They are simply acknowledging that yes, you spent a lot of time and efforts, so they are giving something back, but they don't have to. And people flame them because they are not giving enough? Don't kid me.

Very Hard EngageSep 6, 20172 votes

you're disregarding their motive in the first place.

whats the meaning behind a partial refund.

option one, they abide by their rules and make a change and just delete runes and give us free ones instead. that makes them look like they dont care at all about older players who've been here forever. scumbag riot.

option two, they give a full refund, players now own a ridiculous amount of blue essence and can craft whatever they want whenever they want it and buy all the rewards they are offering. but this shows they were aware of your hard efforts and acknowledged what you've done in the game. they have no ulterior motives other than being good people.

option three, they give a "partial" refund to avoid a PR disaster, but still keep everyone in line of not being able to afford anything and people still struggle to buy anything they want. namely no longer gaining IP after the match ends, and champion shards and blue essence being variable at fixed intervals, YOU CAN NOT buy champions anymore without getting lucky and playing a ton more games than you would normally.

this works in RIOTS favor of forcing you to buy rp to get the champions you want.

you are blissfully ignoring everything you want and creating the false notion that riot is run by good people.

riot does as it pleases for its own maximum benefit, the sooner you accept this the sooner you can realize the truth.

if riot were good people as you claim, they would give would go above and beyond to make things right, i feel cheated out of 2500 games of forced grinding to become able to compete.

HalcyonDwellerSep 3, 20171 votes

This is the wrong argument to make.

You could argue that as a company Riot would screw themselves for the next few champion releases if they give players too much IP all at once. Thus it would be impossible from a business standpoint.

But saying that we got 'value' from them is poor reasoning. We didn't want runes, we had to buy them to stay competitive with other players who had the runes we didnt. We would much rather have spend the IP on champions if we had been given the choice.

DeathBurstSep 6, 20171 votes

I'm a bit late, but since your reply is actually a very good argument and there are so few of them in all this shit-storm, I really want to acknowledge that.

So yeah, phrasing it as "you got value out of it" was not the best idea. "Value" implies that you wanted Runes, when we were mostly forced to buy them. So let me re-phrase it.

You paid to access some system (Ranked on fair grounds, in that case) and you did get access to it. Now, this entry fee is removed and everyone can access it for free, but it doesn't change that you've been able to compete for years thanks to the fee you paid so long ago. So why should you get your fee back?

Look at Video games on Steam. You can buy it on day 1 and pay the full price. Or you can wait a couple years and buy it for 20 dollars less after a permanent price reduction. But game publishers won't refund all the people who bought the game full price on day 1 when that permanent price reduction happen.

Here, Riot is giving a partial "refund" purely out of good-will, it would have been entirely justifiable to give nothing at all, just as in the scenario I used above. And they get flamed for that good-will. It's absurd.

HalcyonDwellerSep 7, 20171 votes

Thanks for your reply! Sorry I've been away and unable to respond.

I see what you mean, and I understand your argument. Honestly I can see reason behind both sides of the arguments surrounding runes refunds (in between all the shitstorm of course).

I think my issue isn't that they are or aren't doing it, It's more a matter of how they are doing it.

Player relations is a complicated issue, and implementing temporary 'rune store' for people to spend their refunded IP in is a smart idea, but with the way the refunds are given it seems a lot of players won't be able to afford any of the awesome crap available anyway.

So instead of providing a fair refund with an outlet to get rid of all that extra currency that would cost Riot badly to have around, they have provided many players with a stinging slap in the face.

With that circumstance I feel it would have been better to offer no refund at all, because the only result is still angry players despite having shelled out a bunch of refunds that the players cannot use anyway.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling there will be too many players left with a crapton of IP after the store closes, and they will just feel bitter at having rewards dangled closely out of their reach.

Hopefully Riot has a plan for these players, because otherwise they will be left with a terrible PR situation despite their other efforts.

Eternal TormentSep 1, 20177 votes

They possibly could have done more, but they probably considered that old Players already have massive stacked IP despite how much they actually used to buy runes and stuff. If i had to guess why riot makes the rune refund Prices rather low it would be because they considered that long time Players already have enough of that as it is, but should still get something back. In turn they are going to get some rare stuff out for IP purchase as a counter-reward. so...i don't see how any fraction can be unhappy

ShyduSep 2, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TNFOmVb9,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-01T21:37:15.746+0000)

They possibly could have done more, but they probably considered that old Players already have massive stacked IP despite how much they actually used to buy runes and stuff. If i had to guess why riot makes the rune refund Prices rather low it would be because they considered that long time Players already have enough of that as it is, but should still get something back. In turn they are going to get some rare stuff out for IP purchase as a counter-reward. so...i don't see how any fraction can be unhappy

Although I only started around season 3-4, around when Zac was released. I still consider myself a long time player for spending a good amount of time and money on this game. I only have 4 Rune pages, 2 of them already being almost identical. This is because I still don't have that many runes. The prices are ludicrous for runes. I spent more than 10000 on them, and to me, this is a lot. I spent my IP on champions, yet I still don't have all of them. Now try and understand how even older players feel. They could have all the champions, but still not getting the full benefit.

Eternal TormentSep 2, 20173 votes

Point taken, but then again i am just guessing. I really have no clue myself y riot did the refunds on runes arguably low.

EpicanianSep 2, 20175 votes

If you're an old player you will have enough IP to buy rare skins(like URF warwick) from the temporary blue essence store.

EedatSep 2, 20175 votes

Lol if I got a full refund maybe. From the 102,000 IP I've spent on runes, I get 28,000 back. Bullshit

SukishooSep 2, 20173 votes

I'll have more than enough for it, been playing for 6 years.

Depending on how long you've been playing, you should have plenty of IP that will convert over along with any BE you already have.

MrHaZeYoSep 3, 20172 votes

I'll get 54k back meaning I spent more then 200k, I don't feel jewed over. I feel bad about the older new players then I do for people like me from season 3 n before.

WimbledofySep 2, 20175 votes

I like the way this one player put it in the other thread, about how it effects players in the middle that aren't new but still don't own all champs yet.

[{quoted}](name=Blitzball Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xs7dFWns,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2017-09-02T00:09:13.291+0000)

Everybody here is talking old and new players, since many people who use these boards are veterans, but nobody is talking about those stuck in the "not fairly new but by no means old" area. Unlike you all, I don't own every champion- about less than a quarter of the roster. Most of my IP was invested into the runes system. I can't exactly buy new champions and expect to use the same runes for every champion. So instead of buying new champions, I bought the runes needed to aid in fleshing out the strong points of the champion(s) I own. It would be better to go more armor runes on a rammus then having your standard attack damage runes. And since I was committed to top/jungle/support tanky champions, I literally didn't buy any ap runes for over a year until I was forced(cough autofill) into playing more in the mid lane. Not to mention the rune pages that I had to get to be able to switch to the specific runes that I needed. But now that the runes system is going away, I feel like I've wasted countless hours on runes rather than champions.

Sincerely, the many times where I could have had a specific champion to trade with another player.

And don't you dare say that I've made the most of my runes, because that is a weak argument

Altonius AmakiirSep 2, 20174 votes

Honestly, I feel the same as him. When I first started all the people I knew emphasized the importance of runes on the game. Didn't really believe them that much at first, but I mained Warwick and I was struggling early game so I custom tailored a rune page to him. Winrate sky-rocketed instantly, clear time decreased by a minute; and I realized what they meant. So instead of buying champions for the next two months I dumped all my ip into runes, afterwards I spent roughly 75% of my ip on runes for the next four months. I hated having so few champions to play, but I knew it would be a better long term investment to buy them up-front than to buy the champions, feeling like they were bad, only to buy runes later and find out that was why.

If I had known when I was buying them all in late S6, that they would be replaced by the beginning of S8, I would have only bought tier 2 runes and made due with those. I wouldn't have invested so much in getting the best runes for my mains. The fact I made that investment thinking I would use them for probably four seasons before they would either revamp it with better runes to buy or I would retire from league.

Frankly the thing that annoys me the most is that they're giving us static ip back, it's not based on how much we spent, but how much we bought. For instance a Scaling AD Quint that was bought at 515 ip gives 300 ip, but so does a Life Steal Quint bought at 2050 ip. Not exactly fair. I do understand the reasoning to give less for the more someone has used it, so I'm not asking for a full refund(although I don't exactly think S7 people deserve a full refund either, especially those buying in august) but a 75% refund or even a 50% would be much better, otherwise I'm barely getting 20% back, while some people could be getting 60% back. Also although I see the reasoning with less ip the further back you bought them, it's also not fair to spit on those that have been with the game since the beginning. The difference should only be marginal: 75% for S6&S5 players, 70% for S4, 65% for S3, 60% for S2&S1 as an example.

KrèépySep 2, 20173 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVHVjFfAIW8&feature=youtu.be

"Good to know that supporting your company for a long time means jack shit"- Facts

BlåbæretSep 3, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Who decided these refund prices?

My guess would be Ghostcrawler. He didn't give two shits about old players in WoW either.

Taz the KitsuneSep 2, 20172 votes

Lol, let's be real.... even though it annoys a lot of us... We will still play even though they do it.... we are to addicted to this game... and will start forgetting it. We will be too focused on the new masteries... ahahha

ChompyWulfSep 3, 20171 votes

[deleted]

EedatSep 3, 20173 votes

Oh hey look! Someone who just started playing this season and is getting a 100% refund on all their rues and getting access to all the new runes for free!

https://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=chompywulf

Meanwhile I'm literally losing 74,000 IP to gain access to the same system that you paid literally nothing for. I fail to see how I'm the "participation trophy millennial" when you get everythig for free yet I have to pay. You sure you didnt get that backwards?

ChompyWulfSep 3, 20171 votes

I'm not getting everything free. My champion pool is limited. My runes were very basic and limited. I very likely won't be making up the difference in champ pool by BE while you are free to get fun vanity items or stockpile for future champs.

The ultimate point is IP was free, you're getting some back for free, and you want MORE for free. That is entitlement garbage. You paid nothing.

EedatSep 3, 20173 votes

Lmao easy t say "IP was free" when you didnt spend the hundred+ hours it took to grind over 100,000 IP of runes. Easy to say that when you weren't buying RP all that time for champions so you could save your IP for those runes. Easy to say when you weren't buying IP boosts with cash so you could grind those runes faster. By the way, runes used to be much more expensive too lol

"That is entitlement garbage"

Don't think so bud. You want all the runes with none of the work then you tell people who put in 100+ hours for them to suck it up because you get it for free now. Yeah, I'm the one who is entitled. It's definitely me yup. It's definetely not the one saying "Give me everything for free for none of the work with a 100% refund and fuck everyone else because my ass is covered"