Boards›Gameplay

Why does Leashing exist?

DrProfVibeCheck·Feb 17, 2016·25 votes·3,881 views

Please, before you post a comment, read the thread first. This may be a totally different question than you expect.

Now, on to the post.

Why does Leashing exist? I know the strategical advantage of it. I do play jungle. It's to help the Jungler clear their first camp faster and with less health loss.

What I wonder is who came up with it? And when? And how? I mean, if it wasn't such a norm now, I don't think it wouldn't be such an alien idea to not leash. Sure, in recent seasons, leashing has become a necessity, but thats because leashing was already well established before.

What would League be like if some guy never invented leashing? Would junglers suck more early? Or would the jungle damage early be a lot less prevalent? Would the jungling starting items be different? Would jungling itemization in general be different? So many questions.

Its like asking what would life be like without toasters. You never think about how game-changing toasters are until you think of a world without them.

EDIT: One of the main big questions of the post was to wonder what the game would be like without leashing. Many people said that less junglers would be viable. Thing is, knowing Riot, they'd want to make everyone viable for the jungle. So they'd implement a system of some sort if leashing didn't exist.

Another thing people said is that someone would make leashing some day. Well, what if the whole dang idea of leashing DID NOT REGISTER in our puny minds? What would happen to league then?

82 Comments

Faith BreakerFeb 17, 201625 votes

You lost me at Toasters being game changing. Where would the human race be today without the luxury of lightly toasting our bread or falafels

FiniteParadox22Feb 17, 20167 votes

Read your name as Faith Baker at first and it made your comment seem so much more appropriate.

Faith BreakerFeb 18, 20162 votes

This pleases me...

TohobFeb 17, 201621 votes

the jungle camps used to work differently, they would hold their aggro on the first person to attack them. since this was a known interaction, it didn't take a bunch of rocket scientists to figure out that if someone were to hit the jungle camp and then kite it around for a little bit, the camp could be taken without anyone taking any damage at all. and the jungle camps spawned even earlier before laning started, so you didn't lose a single cs doing it, so it was an obvious advantage. the current version of leashing evolved from that practice as the jungle evolved

Water ShurikenFeb 18, 20162 votes

exactly

BeatzBoyFTWFeb 17, 20167 votes

Should have titled it differently like "How did Leashing existed?", cz from outside it looks as if you're the type of guy who hates leashing for your own jungler.

DrProfVibeCheckFeb 17, 20165 votes

I used the art of click-bait to my advantage, lol. >:D

WngNutFeb 17, 20165 votes

If some guy had never "invented" leashing, then some other guy would have. Humanity is great at figuring out the best way to do things. In league, this means finding what champion works well with what items, and what champions counter those champions; what strategies work well, and what strategies counter those strategies. Leashing it one of those strategies, if the guy or guys that did figure out it works didn't, others would have.

JayrettFeb 17, 20169 votes

while that would be true, the question is about the very unlikely universe where leashing was never invented. Don't get me wrong, you did make a good post, however you did completely sidestepped the proposed question with your post.

IcyPepperFeb 17, 20163 votes

Imo, if leashing wasn't basically mandatory at this point then everyone would be jungling at level one :<

PePsiLemoNNFeb 17, 20162 votes

summoner 11 - level 10

IcyPepperFeb 17, 20161 votes

... Good one :P

Rain NTFeb 17, 20163 votes

Before jungle back in like season 1, it was stupidly hard... The camp hurt and there was not a lot of champs who can do it effectively. But "leashing" used to be someone, or anyone hit a camp.. And the camp would CHASE the person who hit them (like having a rope on them and they would follow you) and it wouldnt hit the closest target. So like in mid lane, the mid laner would leash outside of blue and run back to mid lane immediately and the camp would follow towards the mid laner direction for 3-4s and the jungler would have 3-4s of free autos are spells which helped greatly.

AkesgerothFeb 17, 20163 votes

Do you mean the mechanic? It's a leftover from Warcraft 3. Neutral camps would be around the map and you would go to wipe them out to get treasures and XP for your heroes. Those neutral camps were spawned at fixed locations and when attacked, would target whatever attacked them first until they ran out to a certain range, then they would leash back to their camp.

The Yetii RiderFeb 17, 20163 votes

Considering Riot makes such ridiculous tweaks like 5 AD to Warrior and 2 armor to Jarvan we can be certain that the jungle is balanced on the edge of a knife.

Jungle is absolutely, 100%, completely balanced with the expectation that every single jungler is running armor seals. The regeneration from jungle items, jungler base stats, and jungle monster damage is tuned based on every jungler having 9 extra armor.

You can bet if leashing never existed that the entire jungle would be different.

dunkeroniFeb 17, 20163 votes

It's because the jungle role didn't used to exist. Eventually specific champions in earlier seasons were able to 'survive' farming the jungle and get xp and gold that would otherwise not go to their team. To start off though, they would need help on the first camps. This grew into an established role, while keeping the necessity for leashing. Because so many champions were later balanced around that leash mechanic and their kits were designed to fit with a progression tailored for the jungle, leashing stayed.

In a weird way, your analogy about toasters actually works. Toasters exist because people wanted to slightly cook their bread, so a way to make them was invented. Now, because we have toasters, other methods of toasting bread are not used due to the simplicity of the mechanism and the fact that sliced bread has been designed with toasters in mind. Leasing exists because people tried to jungle, so the early game teamwork was standardized to accommodate it. Since it's so straightforward and workable for even low-levels to do, and since the jungle and many champions have been designed around the leash jungle system, it stays.

Athenes LuluFeb 17, 20162 votes

Then things like Udyr/Fiddle/Nunu/Trundle/anyone with fast clears would be the only viable junglers.

ThePartyLeaderFeb 17, 20162 votes

Uhhhhh. It would change almost nothing besides that less champions could jungle safely making stronger junglers even stronger. What would happen if no one ever figured out last hitting was good?

DrProfVibeCheckFeb 17, 20161 votes

Are you... proposing an actual question now? Because the way you led you post, it seems that you placed that question for sarcastic value, even though that is actually an intresting thing to ask.

What would happen if no one invented last hitting? Hmm....

No money The end

ThePartyLeaderFeb 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TLdEj9aZ,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-02-17T15:19:09.352+0000)

Are you... proposing an actual question now? Because the way you led you post, it seems that you placed that question for sarcastic value, even though that is actually an intresting thing to ask.

What would happen if no one invented last hitting? Hmm....

No money The end

More rhetorical than sarcastic but definitely a bit of both. The answer would be more of a what would riot do to balance, no leashing either means camps get made easier to clear, jungler items get made stronger to compensate, or resources gained from jungle increases.

No last hitting means items get balanced to be cheaper, passive gold gain probably increases, kills and jungling become more important

swiftsnipeFeb 17, 20162 votes

small jungle camps used to spawn 15 secs before red/blue and also before minions got to the lane.

It was natural for laners to work on the jungle camp at the start of games because there was nothing else to do. This was the origin of leashing i beleive

One of the first strats was giving your bot lane the small minion camp. This let them hit lvl 2 first and all in the other lane.

I don't know if a single person is given credit for the strategy.

Flop DoggoFeb 17, 20162 votes

"I don't think it wouldn't be such an alien idea to not leash"

What???? I wasn't prepared for triple negatives

yay nibbersFeb 17, 20162 votes

I feel like leashing is actually less of a requirement now that it's ever been. Sure, it's handy, but I've found I can do at least my first three camps fine without a leash on most champions I've tried. For reference, I've even done it with with champs like Ahri and Jhin, who don't really have anything going for them as far as jungling goes (Ahri is actually pretty fine, Jhin kinda sucks). It's especially easy/do-able on champs made to jungle, like Udyr for example. If you start Krugs(smite), do Raptors second and then smite Red buff you actually finish that half of the jungle with a lot of HP depending on who you're playing. Squishier champs with decent level 1 AOE (like Ahri or Jhin with his traps) can start Raptors, saving smite for Red buff as their second camp and get along pretty well.

Of course, starting with a leash is still ideal, I wouldn't exactly call it mandatory. I think it's more a jungle balance thing as others suggested. We can't have everyone starting a camp level 1 for the easy XP, what's the jungler gonna farm if everyone takes all the camps? This is actually why some of the XP was loaded off to the jungle items, because top and even some midlaners and ADCs would abuse the big XP camps gave for a quick level 2. Imagine if cinderhulk top was still a thing though, it'd still be happening now if it were. I can imagine the jungle mobs being tough at level 1 is also a method for keeping certain champs that probably shouldn't jungle out of the jungle (even though, as I mention above, it's definitely more than possible). And we can't just make the camps stronger and then make junglers strong enough to take them on their own, then they'd be early level lane terrors.

Just my two cents as a jungle main, the way I see it. I could be wrong about some of it or even everything.

ShaftyMegeeFeb 18, 20162 votes

Questioning the idea itself huh? Well man I don't have a clue haha

shyvFeb 17, 20161 votes

i kind of wish leashing wasn't a thing. i play jungle a lot and i hate the fact that i'm so reliant on my team just to do something as simple as farm without dying on my first clear.

DrProfVibeCheckFeb 17, 20161 votes

I know right? What if they're huge dicks and won't leash you?

shyvFeb 18, 20161 votes

happens a lot considering how much i play leona jungle. if people don't like what you're playing, they will intentionally set you behind.

SkyBlade79Feb 17, 20161 votes

If your team doesn't want to leash, you could always a. buy refillable potion, pop those on first clear, then back or b. just do wolves, almost anyone can beat them, especially with smite.

KorilloFeb 17, 20161 votes

What if the moon really was made of cheese?

I generally find what if questions utterly useless and uninteresting. There is no value to be gained and the discussion itself is irrelevant.

DrProfVibeCheckFeb 17, 20169 votes

You must be fun at parties.

What if the moon was made if pure cheddar? Well, first lets think.

Did we make it so? Or was it always cheese. If we made it, it would take centuries to just get the cheese up there and put it together. There'd be major economic backlash, since ya know, you're wasting millions if tons of cheese. And what would we do with the ACTUAL rocky stuff of the moon?

If it was already cheese since its formation, who made it? Did some Alien Cow just give us its blessing? Did an ancient civilization just have A LOT of time and money on their hands?

Either way, cheese is NOT good moon material. It would melt in the direct light of the sun. I suppose with THAT MUCH cheese already up there, it won't matter that much.

KorilloFeb 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TLdEj9aZ,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2016-02-17T15:43:48.303+0000)

You must be fun at parties.

What if tehe moon was made if pure cheddar? Well, first lets think.

Did we make it so? Or was it always cheese. If we made it, it would take centuries to just get the cheese up there and put it together. There'd be major economic backlash, since ya know, you're wasting millions if tons of cheese. And what would we do with the ACTUAL rocky stuff of the moon?

If it was already cheese since its formation, who made it? Did some Alien Cow just give us its blessing? Did an ancient civilization just have ALOT of time and money on their hands?

Either way, cheese is NOT good moon material. It would melt in the direct light of the sun. I suppose with THAT MUCH cheese already up there, it won't matter that much.

I'm glad you find it enjoyable to think of these things but no progress has been made. It's not even an interesting fiction.

DrProfVibeCheckFeb 17, 20168 votes

You know, it actually helps if you add to conversation if you want to get something meaningful from it.

Instead, you cross your arms, let put a long "Hmph", and say "No conversation is ever good".

Hyrum GraffFeb 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TLdEj9aZ,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2016-02-17T15:43:48.303+0000)

You must be fun at parties.

What if tehe moon was made if pure cheddar? Well, first lets think.

Did we make it so? Or was it always cheese. If we made it, it would take centuries to just get the cheese up there and put it together. There'd be major economic backlash, since ya know, you're wasting millions if tons of cheese. And what would we do with the ACTUAL rocky stuff of the moon?

If it was already cheese since its formation, who made it? Did some Alien Cow just give us its blessing? Did an ancient civilization just have ALOT of time and money on their hands?

Either way, cheese is NOT good moon material. It would melt in the direct light of the sun. I suppose with THAT MUCH cheese already up there, it won't matter that much.

You don't need to respond to this type of person. I honestly wish people wouldn't, because I don't want to spend my time on boards reading this type of discussion.

TeCoolMageFeb 18, 20162 votes

Actually, these questions are more interesting to people who actually think about them (ahem, not you right now, and based on the word 'generally', I don't think it has been at any point in the past either.)

Cheese making has always been a pretty deliberate process, not really something you do by accident.

If the moon was made out of cheese, it would mean that either: A) Cheese has a way of being made by chance B) Humans have been making cheese since before the first recording of a visible faraway object in the sky at night. C) Some other being knows how to make cheese

So when we DO get to space, we'd either find the source and be able to sustain life outside of earth with less worries, or we'd study it and compare it to cheese on earth to better understand what cows were milked in the ancient, ancient times, which could be pretty useful for understanding things related to biology and space (food decay & contamination in space over billions of years, evolution of mammary glands, etc). By knowing these things, we now have a specific scenario illustrating a possible general concept (artificial objects placed without human interference), and it increases our known ways to respond to a situation (finding out an object in space has been made out of an artificial substance). Of course, this doesn't apply if you're some sort of genius who can list all the possible outcomes that 10-200 people can come up with as the situation pops up. I didn't even consider this from an economical standpoint before reading Glitter's response.

Also, 'uninteresting' if your problem, it's not anyone's fault, the relevance of alternatives helps us better understand how our current situation is.

KorilloFeb 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Actually, these questions are more interesting to people who actually think about them (ahem, not you right now, and based on the word 'generally', I don't think it has been at any point in the past either.)

Cheese making has always been a pretty deliberate process, not really something you do by accident.

If the moon was made out of cheese, it would mean that either: A) Cheese has a way of being made by chance B) Humans have been making cheese since before the first recording of a visible faraway object in the sky at night. C) Some other being knows how to make cheese

So when we DO get to space, we'd either find the source and be able to sustain life outside of earth with less worries, or we'd study it and compare it to cheese on earth to better understand what cows were milked in the ancient, ancient times, which could be pretty useful for understanding things related to biology and space (food decay & contamination in space over billions of years, evolution of mammary glands, etc). By knowing these things, we now have a specific scenario illustrating a possible general concept (artificial objects placed without human interference), and it increases our known ways to respond to a situation (finding out an object in space has been made out of an artificial substance). Of course, this doesn't apply if you're some sort of genius who can list all the possible outcomes that 10-200 people can come up with as the situation pops up. I didn't even consider this from an economical standpoint before reading Glitter's response.

Also, 'uninteresting' if your problem, it's not anyone's fault, the relevance of alternatives helps us better understand how our current situation is.

All well and good but as I mentioned, this is the gameplay section. A fanfiction thread about a game where leashing doesn't exist, or a moon being made of cheese belongs in the miscellaneous section.

TeCoolMageFeb 19, 20162 votes

No, leashing is a gameplay element to this game and asking what the gameplay would be like without leashing belongs in the gameplay section.

Also, it's not fanfiction. Under that logic, String theory is fan fiction too.

KorilloFeb 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, leashing is a gameplay element to this game and asking what the gameplay would be like without leashing belongs in the gameplay section.

Also, it's not fanfiction. Under that logic, String theory is fan fiction too.

Leashing exists. This thread is about a universe where leashing doesn't exist. That is fiction, made by what appears to be a fan. The very definition of fanfiction.

TeCoolMageFeb 19, 20162 votes

Physics exists. String theory is a theory that is based off the 'particles' in particle theory being strings. It is only internally consistent and unprovable, made by what appears to be a fan of science.

The point is not to make a story about leashing, it's to give an internally consistent alternative to current balance changes.

KorilloFeb 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Physics exists. String theory is a theory that is based off the 'particles' in particle theory being strings. It is only internally consistent and unprovable, made by what appears to be a fan of science.

The point is not to make a story about leashing, it's to give an internally consistent alternative to current balance changes.

Look at the OP. This is what it says word for word.

"One of the main big questions of the post was to wonder what the game would be like without leashing. Many people said that less junglers would be viable. Thing is, knowing Riot, they'd want to make everyone viable for the jungle. So they'd implement a system of some sort if leashing didn't exist.

Another thing people said is that someone would make leashing some day. Well, what if the whole dang idea of leashing DID NOT REGISTER in our puny minds? What would happen to league then?"

The post is literally asking what would League of Legends look like if we nobody was smart enough to think of leashing for a jungler. Well, somebody was smart enough to think about it, and leashing does exist. So answering the question is creating a work of fiction in a world that will never exist (or possibly does exist parallel to our own world as we speak). Either way it is not relevant to the current game of League of Legends that we see today.

Also, string theory had a strong following originally and has shrunk tremendously. While it is still being researched by some, it is widely considered to be a waste of time at this point. Most have moved on to studying more relevant and promising theories.

TeCoolMageFeb 19, 20162 votes

Also, string theory had a strong following originally and has shrunk tremendously. While it is still being researched by some, it is widely considered to be a waste of time at this point. Most have moved on to studying more relevant and promising theories.

That doesn't make it fan fiction.

It's still very relevant. Understanding the significance of leashing and what can happen if it were removed unintentionally or intentionally would help us know whether it's good for the game or not.

KorilloFeb 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That doesn't make it fan fiction.

It's still very relevant. Understanding the significance of leashing and what can happen if it were removed unintentionally or intentionally would help us know whether it's good for the game or not.

I'm not the one who claimed string theory was fan fiction, you are.

I disagree with you claim that this discussion is relevant. A discussion where the premise is that people are too stupid to come up with useful strategies is not a useful discussion.

TeCoolMageFeb 20, 20161 votes

Well your definition of fan fiction is also the definition of a theory.

And the premise is that leasing doesn't exist, and people played based on having no leash. The fact not every viable strategy can be picked up on before balance changes steer it to unviability doesn't mean people are stupid. It's like saying all bug exploiters are incompetent for not discovering and abusing a single bug that ended up being patched before it got famous.

By knowing the effects of a leash, and how it skews the requirements of a jungler through leaving them more HP for their next camps and first gank helps riot better understand if it should be changed, removed, or left as it is.

ElindisFeb 17, 20161 votes

I played J4 jungle back in season 1. It was much harder than it is now, but also far more rewarding. I remember there were 2 (3 if you count fiddle) opening builds to jungle with - Regrowth pendant+pots / Cloth armor+pots / Amp tome+1 pot. You built Philosopher's stone from regrowth pendant, then basic boots and Heart of Gold. When you had 2 GP/5 items you could afford Aegis of the Legion very quickly, it had bonus ARMOR, MR and AD aura back then and was extremely gold efficient even if only you benefited from it. You could get those very easily pre-20. minute... J4's ganks also were extremely good back then :3

As far as i can remember, there were only few viable junglers able to jungle by themselves Amumu, Fiddle, WW, J4 and Shaco. Shaco was a goddamn beast that was able to kill Drake at level 2 or so... But you could also do it with more assassin/gank theme champions, but they usually required help - leash This incuded mainly Alistar and Evelynn. Eve was so scary, she had complete invisibility, brutal burst and STUN. If she got ahead she was just sick.

La BarbotteFeb 18, 20161 votes

Warwick Aatrox Fiddlesticks Elise Shaco LeeSin PARTY HARD WUBWUBWUBWUB DUDUDUDUDUDU

Meep ManFeb 18, 20161 votes

Aatrox would probably be more viable

WolfBVFeb 18, 20161 votes

If leashing never existed, I'd guess that smite would passively(?) make you resistant to monster damage.

QuephaFeb 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TLdEj9aZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-02-17T06:53:22.887+0000)

Another thing people said is that someone would make leashing some day. Well, what if the whole dang idea of leashing DID NOT REGISTER in our puny minds? What would happen to league then?

Then League wouldn't exist because our brains would lack the capacity to understand the most basic elements of teamwork. Beings who can't understand teamwork would not have created a teamwork-oriented game.

Hot DeliFeb 18, 20161 votes

I've thought about this too and it makes me feel like this gameplay necessity should be antiquated soon. Wouldn't it be sensible to provide a buff for the first camp so that the jungler doesn't need help from laners to avoid getting behind? It's too much pressure to be a jungler and have to rely on the quality of a leash, or be the leasher and stress out about how much aa's before risking the chance of accidentally stealing the kill. Who knows? Maybe this buff can be in the form of an item... or a mastery... or smite idk.

FistOfSharkieshaFeb 18, 20161 votes

It is pretty odd now that you mention on it. First clear is insanely rough without a leash and lacking even a shred of strategy. It's all about the champion and runes used. Kinda doesn't make sense.

ValyrianBladeFeb 18, 20161 votes

Well, to answer directly: In prior seasons the jungle camps spawned long before minions got to lane. I believe in both seasons 4 and 5 jungle spawn timers were moved later relative to minion spawn times to give less time to leash. Therefore, it seems logical that leashing has been around for a really long time and was likely a really obvious idea - perhaps even intended by Riot. There's nothing better to do when there aren't any minions in lane yet.

As to what would happen, reading your edits I think I have a reasonable idea.

"Many people said that less junglers would be viable. Thing is, knowing Riot, they'd want to make everyone viable for the jungle. So they'd implement a system of some sort if leashing didn't exist."

If leashing didn't exist, a bunch of junglers would need to be buffed in order to get through that first clear, either directly or indirectly.

If directly, those champions immediately become insanely strong in lane and the game is out of balance. If indirectly (e.g. a strong jungling item) laners may abuse the item as well (as support items have been abused), again a balance issue. If the item is tied to smite, laners may take smite and use the item (like Shyv top lane cinderhulk, or Ezreal mid). It may also have been sufficiently strong to allow certain champions to clear waves and multiple camps very easily in the mid game and snowball out of control.

Perhaps, if leashing didn't exist, there was simply no way to balance the game with a jungler. Perhaps there wouldn't have been a jungle role at all, and all jungle camps would have been just easier versions of Dragon (i.e. mini objectives for small gold bonuses). Which means people would be teaming up to take these mini-objectives. Which eventually means someone would do it earlier and earlier, more optimally, until it was so early it was basically the exact same thing as a leash.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplayJul 18, 2015764 comments

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 1, 2015156 comments

GameplayApr 1, 2016606 comments

GameplayDec 21, 2014456 comments

3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 17, 2015114 comments

When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?

GameplayNov 30, 2014634 comments

More by DrProfVibeCheck

You should be able to ping your ping.

GameplaySep 7, 201684 comments

With all these Morde threads...I don't see anyone complain about Kindred.

[ARCHIVED] MiscellaneousOct 16, 201564 comments

[ARCHIVED] MiscellaneousJun 28, 201581 comments

Bard is fucked up

Memes & GamesAug 8, 201586 comments

League needs to add these things in their tutorial.

Tips & TricksApr 12, 201588 comments

I hate it when people say "Chill it's Norms, lol"

GameplayDec 16, 2015156 comments