With all these Morde threads...I don't see anyone complain about Kindred.

DrProfVibeCheck·Oct 16, 2015·146 votes·5,601 views

When a rework 2 months ago is so bad that it overshadows a new release champion, something may be wrong with that rework.

Just saying.

EDIT: I should've changed the name to "I dont see any Kindred Posts getting popular". I do agree that Kin is pretty balanced right now, so no one is "complaining". What I meant is that usually there are many posts about new champions when it releases. It does not necessarily mean balance changes; lore and art get popular.

64 Comments

Maximum MordeOct 16, 201524 votes

I've seen plenty of kindred threads already. Mostly, omg disable this champ in ranked so my team isn't first timing and mega feeding rito plz

MimyOct 16, 20151 votes

Pretty much.. Luckly people aren't complaining she's OP.

Lord BoltrixOct 16, 20151 votes

They're complaining about something that makes sense. Customs and bots are there to get the timing of mechanics, but you have to take that champion and play them in normals for a bit, taking them to rank hurts both sides since they would likely learn about this champion in normals.

People will adapt to Kindred in time like they did with Tahm Kench and Ekko and Bard, but it takes time, and in the meantime... do you really, really, really want to let Mr. Fantastic take Kindred because they automatically assume they are OP and freelo, and cost either side LP not out of skill, and likely not even because they are OP, but because there is a new face doing new things, and people take a few seconds each time to process the action and effect of everything Kindred does.

Even if everyone reads up on Kindred, it will take our brains some time to remember, 'oh, that ability does x, and that ability does y, etc' in a timely enough manner to react, without having to pull up lolwiki or the champion spotlight every few minutes. In the meantime, are you really going to make people have to waste a ban when you already ban new champions from the LCS already?

SornAunarraOct 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Boltrix,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Bw7oOOit,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-16T13:58:01.394+0000)

They're complaining about something that makes sense. Customs and bots are there to get the timing of mechanics, but you have to take that champion and play them in normals for a bit, taking them to rank hurts both sides since they would likely learn about this champion in normals.

People will adapt to Kindred in time like they did with Tahm Kench and Ekko and Bard, but it takes time, and in the meantime... do you really, really, really want to let Mr. Fantastic take Kindred because they automatically assume they are OP and freelo, and cost either side LP not out of skill, and likely not even because they are OP, but because there is a new face doing new things, and people take a few seconds each time to process the action and effect of everything Kindred does.

Even if everyone reads up on Kindred, it will take our brains some time to remember, 'oh, that ability does x, and that ability does y, etc' in a timely enough manner to react, without having to pull up lolwiki or the champion spotlight every few minutes. In the meantime, are you really going to make people have to waste a ban when you already ban new champions from the LCS already?

I get your point but it's not hard to remember 4 skills. Tiny dash with hit 3 at the end, circle that does damage and makes her spam Q, slow with an AA3 bonus damage, and an invulnerable circle with a heal. Sure, gotta learn which walls you can/can't hop but the game isn't as hard as you make it out to be.

ayNigerianPrinceOct 16, 20151 votes

You also need to get used to knowing when you're abilities will come off cooldown, how much damage you do so you can estimate whether or not you can kill someone and make desisions based on that, and many other things come into play. There is no justifiable reason to take a brand new champion into ranked. I suppose if you've played it enough on the PBE, but even then 95% of the people doing it haven't played her on PBE, and its really not a great place to be practicing for ranked.

RendarkanOct 17, 20151 votes

Shes only OP if you let her get the stacks. Once shes at like 10 then you obviously aren't warding your jungle or taking the intiative to clear out your own camps and scuttle bugs.

MimyOct 17, 20151 votes

Yea, There were times as a laner I asked my jungle if I could take the marked camp..

and sometimes they left it alone for so long.. I just took it.. (Sorry D:)

But honestly when it comes to asking permission and forgiveness.. I wouldn't want to face a stacked kindred with bork... xD

RendarkanOct 17, 20151 votes

I have been the stacked Kindred with BotRK and every team I made sure regretted it. Kindred

MimyOct 17, 20151 votes

That 10% HP DAMAGE! all abord the FF train TOOOT TOOOT!

RendarkanOct 17, 20151 votes

Its even better when you get 15 stacks cause that's 18.75%.

Kindred "What is this tank you speak of?"

DrProfVibeCheckOct 16, 201519 votes

Usually when I go on the boards after a new release, the Hot page is full of threads about them. Be it lore or gameplay and balance. But currently, its all Morde threads. Im not saying thats a bad thing. Im just saying that if a rework was so poorly done that it overshadows a new champion, maybe change the rework.

xFrostKnightxOct 16, 20157 votes

Riot won't revert the rework or name change, if they do it'll go something like this.

"Those changes were not suppose to go through, we don't know how they got onto live but it was not intentional" - Rito

OOOOHHHHBABYOct 16, 20152 votes

lol

Dextix LTOct 16, 20154 votes

But since its not riven or fiora they wont do anything like this.....

BrascusOct 16, 20151 votes

Ekko's release was just a flood of fanart and fanfic

ManwalrusOct 17, 20151 votes

Lore, balance, but also because kindred is buggy as shit.

SelflessTeammateOct 17, 20151 votes

I mean, that never fails. Sometimes it's worse than other times, though, with especially high-skill-cap champs.

Notably, Bard. Who, while at release was seemingly a universal reaction of, "how the hell does this guy even work", is still my favorite support and I've completely 180'd my opinion on him, after having better learned his capabilities. He's still got a bad reputation because of that super-high learning curve, with which I sympathize completely, but that doesn't mean they don't trust you if you pick Bard, no matter how competent you may be with him. A couple of ADCs have literally refused my Bard choice and chosen not to play and give up almost immediately, if not then and there, or dodge champ select. I mean, I get it, one missed ult at the key moment is gonna screw everyone's game up. Or win it, once you get the basic reflexes of when and how to use it. But I digress.

Having said that...Frick, man, at least make people rank two (this is not asking much, seriously, one good game with a champ is worth about 3/4 of that bar) with a champ before using them in ranked. The Kindred ban is a disastrous waste, and everyone knows it's not because of power, it's because of the people who pick her to test her out, and see absolutely nothing wrong with that statement.

Then there's the people who play ranked, and they say they "haven't played in years" and then they play LeBlanc and ask why her silence isn't working. That actually happened, which is like, I don't even think I started playing before that happened. Or, like, they do Elise with a rushed (not even delayed, just flat-out rushed for like a 65 HP boost) Cinderhulk build that just blows your mind. Which also happened today and made me crazy, because they had a (surprisingly good) Pantheon jungle who can easily level 2 gank everyone.

Kinda went off-topic there, but...Ranked is a weird place. I'm not sure I can afford to take it seriously anymore for my own mental state, because I get things like Cinderhulk Elise, or someone playing LeBlanc for the first time literally in years, and jumps right into Ranked like it's nothing. Or the people who never, ever read patch notes, so any change puts them immediately on tilt. I didn't even know so many people didn't read patch notes until the juggernaut reworks, which threw at least one person totally off their game every single time.

Kindred is new, and people don't care that there's unranked, so they first-time play her in ranked without a care for anyone else. Hence, the justified ban, unless you're a first-pick jungler like me. Then again, I've seen lots of people pick her as an adc and flat-out argue with me that she's not a jungler, but an adc...So, yeah, I get it.

RendarkanOct 17, 20153 votes

Kindred is new, and people don't care that there's unranked, so they first-time play her in ranked without a care for anyone else. Hence, the justified ban, unless you're a first-pick jungler like me. Then again, I've seen lots of people pick her as an adc and flat-out argue with me that she's not a jungler, but an adc...So, yeah, I get it.

Gotta love these people... Every time I see a Kindred without smite I purposely lane bully them and poach their jungle. Then they ask how I get 8 stacks in 15 mins.

"Jungling."

Blue Moon WolfOct 16, 20158 votes

On the subject of Kindred , I have noticed that farming is slightly more difficult, at least for me I need to go straight to scuddler after the first camp since my health is so low (I think I started with the wrong ability picked :L), but they do clear them pretty fast after lvl 3. Then the marking system does tend to get a bit confusing if you go to mark a target, then they get killed by a teammate. I haven't seen anything that really needs to be looked at for a nerf/buff so far, at the most I just wish wolfs model looked more like his splash art with his mouth and ears. I think riot might have done a good job on Kindred :D

Pumpkìn SpiceOct 16, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Bw7oOOit,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-16T15:51:33.800+0000)

at the most I just wish wolfs model looked more like his splash art with his mouth and ears. I think riot might have done a good job on :D

I agree, that is most likely the only thing that bothers me about Kindred. Other than that i am happy to be able to play some games as them.

LarasoOct 16, 201510 votes

What kind of runes are you running? When I was testing Kindred in a custom game, I was easily capable of doing a full jungle clear without a leash, and at the end of it I still had full health.

Start W at level 1 and take Q at level 2. Once you hit Level 3, take your E and then after that just max Q. The sustain on Kindred's W is very very strong, I would say it comes close to rivaling Warwick, you just have to keep moving to build up the passive stacks.

Blue Moon WolfOct 16, 20152 votes

Start W at level 1 and take Q at level 2

Yea, I think that was the main problem, I started with Q and Gromp, then I tried to take Golem and couldn't handle it :p. as for runes I went with my ADC runes. My masteries I'm likely going to have to make a new page for her since I only have jungle masteries for Hybrids and tanks.

Guy Fox TeemoOct 16, 20151 votes

Why would you take adc runes for jungle?

ayNigerianPrinceOct 16, 20151 votes

Because it boosts your damage and attack speed? Two things that benefit Kindred?

Blue Moon WolfOct 16, 20151 votes

exactly, plus as I mentioned my jungle stuff was made for ether hybrids or tanks, My AD champs I really only play top (or bot in the case of ADC's) so a squishy AD only champ is something I'm not entirely used to for jungle. I figure After kindred is more openly available in about 3 weeks I should have a better feel for them and their needs.

Face The SunOct 16, 20151 votes

cause kindred is designed to be a marksman jungler. The whole strategy of taking camps with kindred is that you have to kite them with basics and Qs.

Face The SunOct 16, 20153 votes

yeah, the reason you start W first is because its passive ability is that when you walk around it increases to a limit of 100, at that limit the next attack you do will restore some health. so by the time you walk to gromp and wander a bit you will get some health back :)

PeponiPoroOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What kind of runes are you running? When I was testing Kindred in a custom game, I was easily capable of doing a full jungle clear without a leash, and at the end of it I still had full health.

Start W at level 1 and take Q at level 2. Once you hit Level 3, take your E and then after that just max Q. The sustain on Kindred's W is very very strong, I would say it comes close to rivaling Warwick, you just have to keep moving to build up the passive stacks.

this is exactly what i thought her sustain is quite good, but for some reason ppl dont know how to gank as her... just pop your w and then spam q and proc your e if they are less than 50% health. ITS NOT THAT HARD.

PS im just kidding riot rated her easier than i think she is even if her build isnt very hard at all

RendarkanOct 17, 20151 votes

I like Wolf's cartoony style look. Plus, Graphically mapping Wolf to look more like the splash would cause some computers to explode.

Blue Moon WolfOct 17, 20151 votes

I think they could get away with just changing the color of his teeth to black and adding the ears on his mask, technically he would look like the splash that way without needing to do change his model and add extra strain on computers.

MordepoolOct 16, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Bw7oOOit,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-16T13:34:33.678+0000)

When a rework 2 months ago is so bad that it overshadows a new release champion, something MAY be wrong with that rework.

Just saying.

You misspelt. IS.

Just saying

DrProfVibeCheckOct 16, 20159 votes

Nu I dint. Yu es so stooped. GOE TO SKOOL NURD.

MordepoolOct 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Bw7oOOit,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-16T15:37:21.613+0000)

Nu I dint. Yu es so stooped. GOE TO SKOOL NURD.

something MAY be wrong with that rework

Just pointing out something is wrong with that rework

MatezoideOct 16, 20153 votes

It is understandable. Mordekaiser may have been underused, but he was still a fairly beloved champion by the community, particulary by his small but dedicated playerbase. He may have fallen out of flavor, but given how popular his meme is, his pentakilling potential and the awesome fan songs (Including the winner of Songs of the Summoned 3), it is easy to see why it got such a large reaction.

SpecterVonBarenOct 16, 20152 votes

Best I can figure is that they may be hoping the upcoming marksman changes will indirectly weaken Morde, perhaps through buffs to early game adcs. Though I don't really see how when a champ can literally one shot the ADC with just a tri force.

KatCraftOct 16, 20152 votes

I'm already rank 4 with Kindred and she seems pretty balanced, neither absurdly strong or weak. Whether I would play her in ranked is another story. Most champions that see good competitive play have some kind of broken strong mechanic, I'm not sure how strong just being an adc jungler is, or how good her ult is which is her defining feature.

RikariOct 16, 20152 votes

or the release champion may be balanced like Velkoz not every release has to be RekSai Braum Bard Azir Yasuo Ekko

CasterGilgameshOct 16, 20151 votes

why is Braum there?

CudyDarkyzOct 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

why is there?

His q damage was too high.

CasterGilgameshOct 17, 20151 votes

: / thats only really one thing what makes the others so bad is their whole kits were over loaded

CudyDarkyzOct 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

: / thats only really one thing what makes the others so bad is their whole kits were over loaded

It was more of his Q did around 30-50% of your hp slowed you and marked you for a stun. I'm not sure of this but i was told his w was as strong as Leona 's, and it also being applied to you'r adc made it Op. "Not sure on that"

CasterGilgameshOct 17, 20151 votes

Well I wasn't going to bring Leona on this but she has an AOE stun a slow another stun and a small root/gap closer she has a passive that deals damage to a target after being hit by a follow up spell or Auto it has no cooldown and all leonas spells can reapply it

CudyDarkyzOct 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well I wasn't going to bring Leona on this but she has an AOE stun a slow another stun and a small root/gap closer she has a passive that deals damage to a target after being hit by a follow up spell or Auto it has no cooldown and all leonas spells can reapply i

Yes but Leona is not a release said in the opening comment :D.

RikariOct 17, 20151 votes

his ultimate used to apply his passive.

CasterGilgameshOct 17, 20151 votes

wait what? that's not true i played him when he came out...i wish his ult could

IpolsOct 16, 20151 votes

In my opinion kindred is really unfun to play against when played in lane, the W (wolf) zones you completely and maybe his turret aggro is bugged

KatCraftOct 17, 20151 votes

wolf only attacks what kindred attacks and her range is the shortest of any marksman. Her damage is good when she initiates a target but she has no poke what so ever.

ProzzakOct 16, 20151 votes

But it isn't (for the most part) the two month ago rework that has Morde on the front page all over the place. It is the 2 day ago comment that they are changing his name to "Lord of Death" or whatever. This is two very different things.

Bad PlayerOct 16, 20155 votes

Fair enough--it's not like complaints about Morde have been overtaking the boards for two straight months.

But when the title change of a single champion on PBE can completely overshadow the release of a brand-new champion (that has a totally new role and a wicked awesome theme), it still shows just how much negative feelings there can be still residing in the community about that first champion.

NilokOct 17, 20151 votes

It is simple really, losing a champion's identity due to ignorance of the developer is a far bigger threat than a new champion being OP or UP. The implications that a champion you like could have all their character and identity stripped from them because the developer doesn't think it works for them brings at least a kernel of fear that their favorite champion will be stripped of their defining identity. For the mains of said character, they have to watch as the champion they love gets cut apart and replaced with a crude doppelganger.

Mordekaiser's entire identity was based around both metal, and the themes of heavy metal music, which his entire player base loved. With Riot finally changing his title with the excuse that his kit "no longer fits the metal theme" people have realized that Riot has been making a subtle and concerted effort to remove his core identity. People don't like being manipulated.