Someone remind me again why Ryze kit is toxic

Cloud273·Dec 27, 2016·2 votes·1,640 views

Ryze mid currently sitting at 46% win rate (barely). Ryze top currently has 45% win rate. I know his kit looks OP on paper, but everyone always forgets about how high his mana costs are, and that unlike other mages, HE HAS NO BURST. The fact is, you can usually burst Ryze before he bursts you. If he's top, you can just build mr and outsustain him, since most top laners have some form of sustain in their kit.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

23 Comments

DunkinNoobsDec 27, 20162 votes

TIL that Ryze has no burst.

WalkingInACircleDec 27, 20161 votes

His targetted snare is annoying.

rtbf221651412Dec 27, 20161 votes

Most people don't seem to know how to use him yet. Give it time.

5000000000000000Dec 27, 20161 votes

Hasn't it been long enough?

rtbf221651412Dec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Hasn't it been long enough?

Doubt it. People still don't seem how to use his ult in a way that it can be perceived as broken.

AnonagonDec 27, 20161 votes

People dislike his targeted snare, forgetting the value of such spells when champions like Lee exist in the game.

There's also just a lot of stuff in his kit, so he is called overloaded a lot.

I don't think his current incarnation is nearly as bad as any of his past versions, but it's not perfect.

BakedLotionDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

People dislike his targeted snare, forgetting the value of such spells when champions like Lee exist in the game.

There's also just a lot of stuff in his kit, so he is called overloaded a lot.

I don't think his current incarnation is nearly as bad as any of his past versions, but it's not perfect.

how is it overloaded? He just has a single target snare, waveclear that he needs to set up by wasting two E's and one Q (which is like 300 mana midgame), and a near useless ult. Most people dont even bother using it most of the time.

You wanna see overloaded? Look at jhin.

AnonagonDec 27, 20161 votes

I didn't call it overloaded, just said he gets called overloaded a lot, even if he isn't. Quite similar to Jhin in that regard honestly.

Craft ZeppelinDec 27, 20161 votes

He is basically a mage version of kalista. There is no way you can balance a champion that scales on cdr and mana. He is just kept at a barely playable state unlike her though. I bet there will wont be a day where ryze winrate will go more than 48.

StephenizgodDec 27, 20161 votes

The way his kit works is when someone is really good with him, he is incredibly oppressive. If he is strong, there is very little counterplay other than don't be near him. The reason he has a poor winrate I believe is because his ult is pretty difficult to use properly consistently.

Also Winrate doesn't mean anything, for all you know every single game played on Ryze he is 50/0/0 but still loses because the enemy team keeps killing his teammates and taking turrets. Are they losing because of Ryze? or because they are bad? or because no one knows what to do with a Ryze? we don't know, that is why Win rate is not the best judge of balance. You should be looking at pick rate, # of games played, and overall performance, as well.

CppLDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The way his kit works is when someone is really good with him, he is incredibly oppressive. If he is strong, there is very little counterplay other than don't be near him. The reason he has a poor winrate I believe is because his ult is pretty difficult to use properly consistently.

Also Winrate doesn't mean anything, for all you know every single game played on Ryze he is 50/0/0 but still loses because the enemy team keeps killing his teammates and taking turrets. Are they losing because of Ryze? or because they are bad? or because no one knows what to do with a Ryze? we don't know, that is why Win rate is not the best judge of balance. You should be looking at pick rate, # of games played, and overall performance, as well.

And thats why ryze is almost permabanned in high elos.

xhydnNov 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The way his kit works is when someone is really good with him, he is incredibly oppressive. If he is strong, there is very little counterplay other than don't be near him. The reason he has a poor winrate I believe is because his ult is pretty difficult to use properly consistently.

Also Winrate doesn't mean anything, for all you know every single game played on Ryze he is 50/0/0 but still loses because the enemy team keeps killing his teammates and taking turrets. Are they losing because of Ryze? or because they are bad? or because no one knows what to do with a Ryze? we don't know, that is why Win rate is not the best judge of balance. You should be looking at pick rate, # of games played, and overall performance, as well.

this comment is fvckin hilarious duder

HalcyonDwellerNov 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

this comment is fvckin hilarious duder

how so?

xhydnNov 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

how so?

its just sooo bronze 3 kind of language it spoke

HalcyonDwellerNov 16, 20171 votes

So you find it hilarious because you think that the person who spoke is stupid and inferior to you?

xhydnNov 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So you find it hilarious because you think that the person who spoke is stupid and inferior to you? i dont think that way, no.

HalcyonDwellerNov 28, 20171 votes

Good, I'm glad we cleared that up.

grugDec 27, 20161 votes

ryze will never have an overall 50+ winrate because he's a heavy combo champ

MLDzXnRRRDec 27, 20161 votes

Because few people can play him. I tried him once after the rework and didn't do great. You will need how many - 50 or more? - games to start playing him on a decent level... Not everyone has the time for just 1 champion.

WoonStruckDec 27, 20161 votes

Q can easily deal around 2000 damage. That's why.

Mana: 1250 base, 400 morello's, 400 RoA, 1000 seraph's. 3050 total before multipliers.

Abyssal (60), Morello's (100), RoA (100), Seraph's (80), Deathcap (120)->460+90 (seraph's)->550*1.35=743-> ~800 with blue pot.

Passive-> ~40% bonus mana. 1220 mana. ~50 bonus AP after DC.

850 AP, 4270 mana total.

700 base damage Q. x1.1 (abyssal) ~x1.1 (masteries) = ~850 x2 for E mark. 1700.

#** On essentially a sub-1.25 second CD. **

Considering his early game is not that weak, he has a 2 component spike (not even item..component), and scales extremely hard after completing the two relevant items...his late game's a bit too strong.

Those that have a good handle on him single-handedly decide games, while everyone else flounders with him.

HalcyonDwellerNov 15, 20171 votes

Your reasoning lacks a sound base.

"He isn't OP because he has counters."

Well a grenade in old wars had counters too, if you jumped on it you could save your comrades. But it was still a powerful tool when used well.

Rins Thigh SocksNov 16, 20171 votes

Ryze kit is toxic because it doesn't provide meaningful ways to punish him in lane.

He pushes harder than anyone else for the first few levels, making it very easy to rush Tear.

He has very good DPS early on (relative to other mages), combined with level 1 cheese now possible with W + Arcane Comet so it's also difficult to trade with him.

To top that all off, he has a targeted root, a shield, and a good MS buff.

This makes it very easy for him to scale into the late-game in which he's pretty monstrous if he can either get a good flank off or is just ahead in general.

That's why Ryze is toxic. There just aren't enough points in the game where it's particularly easy to beat him. Same with Azir.