The problem with Le Blanc

Jefftiffy·May 12, 2015·9 votes·1,757 views

She is the epitemy of what Kha'Zix was gutted for. Her base damage on her jump combined with high scaling. On top of this they also double as an escape without even needing to reset. In fact they do most of her damage and its her AoE and she is meant to nuke single targets.

Hrm, how do you beat a single target nuker where about 40-45% of their damage is their AoE and the other 60-55% is split between 2 single target abilties? Idk, but doesn't sound very balanced to me.

give her swaps about a half second PROJECTED cast time so she can't instant delete someone without consequence (counter play). Meaning her sigils on the ground are more visible and can be seen through the fog of war and will glow brighter when she is about to swap. HOORAY COUNTER PLAY
Distortion: Scaling ~~60% AP~~ -> 30% AP (trimming off excess AoE damage)
Mimic distortion: ~~150/300/450 + 90% AP~~ -> 100/250/400 + 45% AP (yet another AoE damage ability that outscales every other one that is also linked to mobility.

41 Comments

TrídentMay 12, 20154 votes

that would kill her...

JefftiffyMay 12, 20154 votes

{quoted}

that would kill her...

I'm sorry but she is an assassin, and her AoE should not have the most damage. If you believe so, that she should nuke for 2.5k+ dmage with no consquence and with 0 counter play go ahead and please never get a job at the balance team.

Gutting her AoE damage which overall is more than 50% of her damage atm is the correct way to nerf her while maybe buffing her ethereal to make up for the damage lost on single targets.

She has the equivalent of a Lee Sin Q damage in both activations combined with his safeguard in mobility in a single ability and can use it 2 times.

Tying high damage to high mobility spells is very bad for balance in general then add in AoE on an assassin that can do about 1k damage with just Q E on a target without Luden's means that she definitely has room to lost some damage especially on her AoE. Her W consists of about 40%+ of her damage in her QWE combo. In her ult it not only outscales the other as well as has higher base damages.

vC48YNoGbJMay 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry but she is an assassin, and her AoE should not have the most damage. If you believe so, that she should nuke for 2.5k+ dmage with no consquence and with 0 counter play go ahead and please never get a job at the balance team.

What the fuck? 2.5k damage? What kind of numbers are you making up? Also, she's obscenely easy to counter. Any auto-target snare/root/silence is brutal for a LeBlanc, similar to playing against Katarina. She has to get within melee range to do damage and if she gets cc'd in a team fight, she's dead.

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Perfect Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBEyjNYX,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-05-12T08:39:02.826+0000)

What the fuck? 2.5k damage? What kind of numbers are you making up? Also, she's obscenely easy to counter. Any auto-target snare/root/silence is brutal for a LeBlanc, similar to playing against Katarina. She has to get within melee range to do damage and if she gets cc'd in a team fight, she's dead.

Let me list the on target CC left in the game in case you have forgotten. Taric Annie Fiddlesticks Maokai Malzahar Warwick Rammus Udyr TwistedFate Skarner Renekton Nautilus

And I want to say that at least half of those are melee, or hard to get in range for CC's that may not even effect LB before she swaps, nulling the effect. The only thing really left in this game is on target Fears, suppressions, and knock-ups. And only knock-ups actually stops her jumps (Skarner's is a bit different and Idk how you would actually manage to grab her mid jump let alone click on her at all with CC mid jump).

vC48YNoGbJMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Let me list the on target CC left in the game in case you have forgotten.

And I want to say that at least half of those are melee, or hard to get in range for CC's that may not even effect LB before she swaps

As soon as you click her, she's locked on as a target. If she Distorts within your range, your cc is automatically applied. Her W doesn't negate auto-target CC in any way.

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Perfect Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBEyjNYX,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-12T22:40:05.744+0000)

As soon as you click her, she's locked on as a target. If she Distorts within your range, your cc is automatically applied. Her W doesn't negate auto-target CC in any way.

It does. It's called most applies during and after a dash or blink . Therefore she's already gone you blew CC on nothing or for reduced effect.

DemiluniSMay 12, 20153 votes

on the way gut the damage of all the ap assasin then! KATARINA DOING ALL HER DAMAGE IN AOE. CUT RATIOS BY HALF. Fizz's E does more damage than leblanc's W, and is on a lower cd, cut scaling and base damage by half, also remove the slow on it. Like what the fuck is your logic? every ap champion as far as I know does some kind of aoe damage.

And if you you already suggesting to nerf her, at least bring some compensation buffs

JefftiffyMay 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

on the way gut the damage of all the ap assasin then! KATARINA DOING ALL HER DAMAGE IN AOE. CUT RATIOS BY HALF. Fizz's E does more damage than leblanc's W, and is on a lower cd, cut scaling and base damage by half, also remove the slow on it. Like what the fuck is your logic? every ap champion as far as I know does some kind of aoe damage.

And if you you already suggesting to nerf her, at least bring some compensation buffs

Except Kata has 1 in if you stop her right. You CC her before she gets off her full ult and her damage is reduced by more than half. LB can blink in blow someone up in half a second, escape, then come back 15s later and do it again. Katarina has to get a kill or she is now useless. When LB's entire kit scales on higher than 50% scaling (total not per proc) and a lot of her kit nears 100% or even breaks that ceiling she has a lot of excess damage that can be trimmed off.

I never said that LB needs to be gutted as a champion. I said her damage on mobility needs to be gutted. It is the same reason the nerfed both Kha'Zix and Tristana's damage on their mobility. They need to have to pay a price for it, not just get is because she is an older champion. She is the prime example of the mobility meta. The tank meta is toxic due to just not being able to kill the tank while they kill squishies, but at least you have a chance against it.

Thing is GA doesn't save you from her and neither does Banshee's. Because sure you may block her W, but that doesn't solve the base 935 damage from QWE + 600/450/600 on her ult. Up to 1.5k damage without scaling. Sure you can block 1 spell with banshee's, but more than likely they are going to play around the 30s it is down once you get hit.

Just in QWE LB has a 2.4 scaling. Average build gives her about 700 AP. That's 1680 damage late game. On just QWE. And her ult is .6(1.2)/.9/.6(1.2) scaling. Meaning she can add in up to 840 more damage just from the scaling on her ult Q or W and even 630 on her mobility.

She can burst for up to 4k raw damage. After MR it is probably about 3.5k on a squishy and about 2.5-3k on a tank. You are telling me that she can not have some of that damage trimmed off? You don't think any of that is excess damage?

It's the same reason people hate Nidalee and Zed. Stupid high damage in a combo that is capable of even erasing bruisers and leaving tanks wounded. At least with my nerfs her damage in her standard rotation would barely be touched (only really her wave clear would drop), but her damage using mobility to go in 2 times would drop her damage dramatically to make up for having 2 chances to escape.

I'm sorry that you just can't sacrifice the ability to play LB in extreme easy mode for the sake of balance. Her damage to single target being bursted would only be about 5% lower than it is now, but she will now have to use her other non-escape abilities to reliably blow up people

DemiluniSMay 12, 20151 votes

Except Kata has 1 in if you stop her right. You CC her before she gets off her full ult and her damage is reduced by more than half. LB can blink in blow someone up in half a second, escape, then come back 15s later and do it again. Katarina has to get a kill or she is now useless. When LB's entire kit scales on higher than 50% scaling (total not per proc) and a lot of her kit nears 100% or even breaks that ceiling she has a lot of excess damage that can be trimmed off.

kata is never playing with the assumpion she's going to cast a full ultimate, 3 of her spellls doing aoe damage. And katarina getting into the fight when it's already going for a clean up, leblanc can either flank or can engage and make a pick, 2 completely different champions.

I never said that LB needs to be gutted as a champion. I said her damage on mobility needs to be gutted. It is the same reason the nerfed both Kha'Zix and Tristana's damage on their mobility. They need to have to pay a price for it, not just get is because she is an older champion. She is the prime example of the mobility meta. The tank meta is toxic due to just not being able to kill the tank while they kill squishies, but at least you have a chance against it.

again, fucking pointless argument. What leblanc has to do with kha or tristana ?! she doesn't have a fucking reset on her mobility move, so it's not any fucking different from any other AOE ability in the game, except she throws herself in to deal the damage, without any fucking damage reduction or sustain.

and what the fucking point of bringing raw numbers if any mage in the game gonna burst an adc with 700 ap?!

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

kata is never playing with the assumpion she's going to cast a full ultimate, 3 of her spellls doing aoe damage. And katarina getting into the fight when it's already going for a clean up, leblanc can either flank or can engage and make a pick, 2 completely different champions.

again, fucking pointless argument. What leblanc has to do with kha or tristana ?! she doesn't have a fucking reset on her mobility move, so it's not any fucking different from any other AOE ability in the game, except she throws herself in to deal the damage, without any fucking damage reduction or sustain.

and what the fucking point of bringing raw numbers if any mage in the game gonna burst an adc with 700 ap?!

Because most mages cannot just run blow up the adc and get away nearly untouched. And also most mages usually have very big open weaknesses when going for the carry. LB just has to jump in from somewhere nearby and blow them up then disappear and come back again in 15s. Most other mages also blow an ult which is a 45-60s CD late game to explode the carry.

Kha'Zix is an assassin that used to dive in kill a carry then dive and kill the next squishiest person and repeat this over and over again until the whole enemy team was dead. Trist operated as an assassin ADC the way she used to play and still does as a mid. Stop just disregarding stuff and then raging afterwards. This is a discussion pointing out ways to nerf LB without taking away her strengths (aka blowing up a squishy faster than they can react).

So you are telling me that Ahri Velkoz Syndra Viktor Xerath Cassiopeia Anivia Zyra Ziggs Veigar Ryze Orianna Morgana all just dive in with 700 AP blow a carry and just disappear all without any retaliation or indication that they are going for the carry?

They may have 700 AP and can explode the carry if they catch them. They in no way can just walk up blow up the carry and walk away unless they are fed. They are also not assassins. Being an assassin is not an excuse for the ability to escape and go in on the same ability and have that ability also have high damage. Look at Talon Diana Akali . They must go in and blow someone up and get out on their own. After that, they have to wait for their burst again if they even live. Not just say "Nope I'm out see you in 15s for round 2".

And to give you a hint of how raw numbers effect things. Talons burst for about 3k damage just with spells before resists (and with how much armor pen stacking goes on you can assume he's going to hit for about 80% of that). Add in AAs and possible crits and you are looking at close to LBs damage with about 5x the risk and actual CDs. He has less utility and still accomplishes his job with the raw numbers that LB has.

"Doesn't have reset" I'm sorry but her CD is half the length and has about the same cost and can do the same as their move in one cast. It doesn't matter if she doesn't reset. Her ability functions that way basically and is actually more flexible.

DemiluniSMay 12, 20151 votes

all those don't even have to go in, they can blow the carry from range, and don't bring melee champions in here, they are completely different class, especially champ like talon who is ad

SoenMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

all those don't even have to go in, they can blow the carry from range, and don't bring melee champions in here, they are completely different class, especially champ like talon who is ad

Well its not like "go in" literally means she's getting into melee distance it just means she gets within range to cast her combo. She has to go into what is relatively melee range to proc the damage from her Distortion but only if she feels the additional damage from that spell is needed. She could still burst people from a distance, she just also has the ability to instantly disappear afterwards.

DemiluniSMay 12, 20152 votes

are you literaly stupid?! you asking to nerf her aoe, but then she just using it to get in range, to cast her ranged combo? make your fucking mind, you don't even know what you're talking about, probably never even played the champion, to even have an idea of how she works

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

are you literaly stupid?! you asking to nerf her aoe, but then she just using it to get in range, to cast her ranged combo? make your fucking mind, you don't even know what you're talking about, probably never even played the champion, to even have an idea of how she works

I own every champ. And yes her AoE does a lot of damage which is why double jump for damage is very viable. And in fact the utility it offers generally outweighs the extra damage from the extra Q proc or tether.

I play LB quite a bit, sure it may be for trolling the fuck out of the enemy team with a item 3027 item 3285 item 3158 build, but I mean I can still burst people hard with 500 AP while juking the hell out of them with near infinite mana and low CDs.

If I actually built her right and felt like trying with her and having 700 AP (which I have done a few times last season) I literally can just blow people up nonstop the second they get even a hair out of position then walk away before their team can react. It really isn't fair.

DemiluniSMay 12, 20152 votes

EXACTLY LIKE ANY OTHER MAGE IN THE GAME. Her aoe does damage, but even then it's lower than any other mage in the game, you can look it up, any other mage does more damage with their aoe spell, or got much lower cd ...

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

EXACTLY LIKE ANY OTHER MAGE IN THE GAME. Her aoe does damage, but even then it's lower than any other mage in the game, you can look it up, any other mage does more damage with their aoe spell, or got much lower cd ...

It doesn't matter if it lower. IT IS HIGH MOBILITY, HIGH DAMAGE ON AN AOE. STOP IGNORING THE IMPORTANT PARTS.

DO I NEED TO TALK IN CAPS LIKE YOU DO? IS IT ALL YOU UNDERSTAND?

But seriously, she is an assassin with massive AoE damage. Since when does an assassin mix AoE burst and single target burst in a way where their AoE can cover more than 50% of their damage while also being their mobility. Talon is the only exception. And his kit only allows him to go in for kills unless he uses ult to run for his life which I will remind you is over a 15s CD (I think its about a 45s late game). Sure he can come in and burst again, but he loses almost 1/3 his damage. Where as LB gets about 40% of her damage from her 15s CD ult late game.

She is an assassin not a mage. Get this through your skull. Stop screaming mage when she is not one. She may be AP, but she is an assassin.

DemiluniSMay 12, 20152 votes

any assasin?! fizz? zed? katarina? talon? the all does aoe damage. and so fucking stupid if you read anywhere that I said she's a mage. I compare her W as an aoe ability to those mages got, but without actually jumping in. it doesn't mean I'm saying she's a mage. and are you literaly pulling those number out of you ass? 50% of her damage as aoe ?! her W does most of the damage early since she's maxing it first, late game if you want to assasinate someone you gonna go for mimic sigil or mimic chain since it's going to do more damage to a single person

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

on the way gut the damage of all the ap assasin then! KATARINA DOING ALL HER DAMAGE IN AOE. CUT RATIOS BY HALF. Fizz's E does more damage than leblanc's W, and is on a lower cd, cut scaling and base damage by half, also remove the slow on it. Like what the fuck is your logic? every ap champion as far as I know does some kind of aoe damage.

And if you you already suggesting to nerf her, at least bring some compensation buffs

The point of nerfing is to lower their power not redistribute it. That is called a rebalance. And Fizz had his chain damage gutted, I mean if you think it's high now, you should have killed yourself seeing it before.

Katarina and Zed are mostly problems due to people not being able to bully them out of lane due to mana issues, although I feel Zed could have his W made so he can't instant swap with it (must wait until shadow forms) and that his passive on the W will only boost the damage on his spells so that he has similar damage in a full rotation, but no longer benefits nearly as much from AD on his AAs.

Kata is more of a problem only because of Luden's making her burst higher (same reason DFG was removed, it just has a new face with more spammability and is more useful against squishies). Kata just needs shunpo at a universal 10s CD and grievous removed off her ult or at least have a condition to proc it.

7thHeavenMay 12, 20153 votes

Its seem some1 didnt buy item 3102

Hinagiku33May 13, 20153 votes

The problem with LeBlanc is the same problem Riot has had with all assassins since I've started playing this game at the end of Season 1:

Assassins need to have strong single-target burst damage with the opportunity to escape if they are successful
They pretty much need to do all of this damage in about 1~2 seconds or else the AD Carry will annihilate them and Lifesteal back all that health or the Mage will stun and nuke them to Hell.
They need to be completely item dependent so they aren't too reliable, which means they needs as much gold as AD Carries, which means they either need as good wave-clear as a Mage or be awesome lane bullies with high kill potential early game or be useless. Seriously, Season 2 Kat, Akali, and LeBlanc were all infamously terrible since they had weak laning and no wave-clear - Kat was reworked with wave-clear, LeBlanc got tweaked to have wave-clear, and Akali got her passive tweaked to make her a better duelist earlier
Their escape needs to be nigh-instant or they will just get annihilated anyway and turn it into a 4 v 4 all the same, and anytime assassins can only hope to trade kills has always meant that it's better to just take another bruiser or tank as assassins become irrelevant again.

It'd be great if assassins could provide windows of counter-play and rely on skillful ability combos and such, where good assassins are rewarded by having the chance to skip out of danger while bad assassins resign themselves to their well-deserved deaths. It's a shame that will never happen as long as their targets can kill them in <2 seconds while chain-cc-ing them or healing back all the damage the assassin tries to do...

JefftiffyMay 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBEyjNYX,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-05-13T00:33:54.881+0000) It'd be great if assassins could provide windows of counter-play and rely on skillful ability combos and such, where good assassins are rewarded by having the chance to skip out of danger while bad assassins resign themselves to their well-deserved deaths. It's a shame that will never happen as long as their targets can kill them in <2 seconds while chain-cc-ing them or healing back all the damage the assassin tries to do...

Almost exactly why I'm trying to take the excess damage out of her mobility. I want her to be a somewhat healthy assassin that isn't complete and utter BS to fight against due to how much is needed to shut them down when they have AoE.

Hinagiku33May 15, 20151 votes

As long as AD Carries and Mages can kill assassins like LeBlanc in <2 seconds, she will need that BS mobility to even be playable.

If AD Carries and Mages took longer to kill a target, then Assassins could afford to take longer to kill them and have bigger windows of immobility without being worthless. Also Tanks could focus a bit more on regen instead of never taking damage in the first place, and melee Bruisers might not require instant gap-closers just to be playable...

vC48YNoGbJMay 12, 20152 votes

LeBlanc is severly underpowered at the moment. Those nerfs propositions are absurd and obscene lmfao.

StoningtonMay 12, 20152 votes

EDG just showed you how to play against the second best LeBlanc player in the world(HotshotGG is the best). She's really not that great.

Mylon RequiemMay 12, 20156 votes

Good joke on that HotShotGG comment, lol. :D

Yeah, they had five champions dedicated to stopping her, in lane and in teamfights. On top of that, Faker took Cleanse and opted into a desperation Mejai's.

For the record, LeBlanc is just that good. As a LB main, I assure you she's easily top 3 best champions in the game. Although I will say this, many of the champions in the current meta are very effective at making her irrelevant. One of the reasons SKT took away Urgot from Deft is exactly because Urgot is so good against LeBlanc, being able to immediately swap as well as itemize for Hexdrinker into Maw. Unfortunately they were left without waveclear and hypercarry damage.

qetzelMay 12, 20151 votes

FAker opted into Mejai's when he got kills early on. It wasn't a desperation play...

Mylon RequiemMay 13, 20151 votes

It looked pretty desperate to me. Desperate to snowball the game before EDG's comp fucked them. Which it did. That's what he does on Xerath when he's behind, and only in solo queue does it actually work.

AbyssphereMay 12, 20152 votes

You really think Riot's gonna cut a champ's AP ratios in half and then just leave them there? She'd get massively buffed the very next patch to make up for it. This is completely unrealistic, LeBlanc isn't gonna be left a 35% win rate champ.

FebruAhriMay 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You really think Riot's gonna cut a champ's AP ratios in half and then just leave them there? She'd get massively buffed the very next patch to make up for it. This is completely unrealistic, LeBlanc isn't gonna be left a 35% win rate champ.

that's exactly what happened to ahri, still people complain about her damage

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You really think Riot's gonna cut a champ's AP ratios in half and then just leave them there? She'd get massively buffed the very next patch to make up for it. This is completely unrealistic, LeBlanc isn't gonna be left a 35% win rate champ.

Except they would be gutting damage she isn't supposed to be using to assassinate and really shouldn't even be in her kit to begin with other than her being an older champion. And her last nerf was a silence remove and a grand total of .15 AP ratio off her ult across the 3 abilities averaging a .05 nerf to each different cast on the same ability.

DemiluniSMay 12, 20152 votes

who are you to fucking decide what she supposed and what not? fucking silver scrub who thinks he understand anything about balance ? even the last nerf was just "an eye candy" to please the bitching kids like you

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

who are you to fucking decide what she supposed and what not? fucking silver scrub who thinks he understand anything about balance ? even the last nerf was just "an eye candy" to please the bitching kids like you

Please keep proving my point with rage. You say "I'm bitching" but you are saying "fucking" every time to try to yell at me. Lay off the roids and stop bitching about me pointing out valid points. Otherwise you will be banned. You are just as toxic as half the people in silver and you sit here and yell at me for being "A silver scrub".

You may be Plat 3. But you have the attitude of the average bronze/silver player.

Sadly I probably understand more about the health of this game than you. Considering you carried yourself to high elo with broken champs and every other one has a sub 50% win rate.

To give you a hint. Your main is Sej. The #1 most banned champ right now. The only other person that even matters as a main is Sivir. And that's the only champ you have a good win rate with that hasn't been nerfed or been on the nerf block.

AbyssphereMay 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Except they would be gutting damage she isn't supposed to be using to assassinate and really shouldn't even be in her kit to begin with other than her being an older champion. And her last nerf was a silence remove and a grand total of .15 AP ratio off her ult across the 3 abilities averaging a .05 nerf to each different cast on the same ability.

That doesn't really answer my question. If you're seriously proposing cutting 75% AP off of her ratios then you have to at least suggest some compensation (beyond "maybe a little increase on E damage".

This entire thread is just a massive kneejerk based on you deciding you don't like something in her kit, with no actual thought put into consequences for her, things you should replace this power you don't like with, etc. Riot isn't going to do that, especially for a champ with a mediocre winrate as is.

JefftiffyMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That doesn't really answer my question. If you're seriously proposing cutting 75% AP off of her ratios then you have to at least suggest some compensation (beyond "maybe a little increase on E damage".

This entire thread is just a massive kneejerk based on you deciding you don't like something in her kit, with no actual thought put into consequences for her, things you should replace this power you don't like with, etc. Riot isn't going to do that, especially for a champ with a mediocre winrate as is.

You don't seem to understand. It's .75 of her ap damage off her kit when she uses her mobility. It has 0 effects if she actually goes for the kill with her other abilities. This isn't 75% of her damage. It is maybe 20% if she uses her mobility over burst. She needs to have to choose. She shouldn't get a lollipop for being an assassin and be told "It's okay, you're special. Because you are an assassin you get high damage and high mobility, you don't have to worry about the nerf bat". If she only loses about .3 damage per AP on her kit when she uses her W. It really isn't gutting her damage.

You don't seem to understand that ruining her damage on her mobility doesn't do anything to her actual nuke potential unless she is using her kit improperly. This change is to emphasize her having to commit to kills instead of blowing people up and having 2 bales that double as gap closers with high AoE damage. She would still have the gap closer and escape on her W, but her ult would be a lot less deadly. And her W would no longer do as much damage late game for no reason.

The main point is, she is strangling out champion diversity in mid lane. You have to play someone who counters her or can survive her and out scale her. Because if you don't she will be picked, and you can't follow her when she roams or she will camp bushes and blow you up when you try to follow.

Literally the counter is to never let her get a lead. And if you can't follow her, you can't stop her from getting fed off 1-2 kills in other lanes even with MIAs due to her dive potential. Sure you can pick people like Malzahar Lissandra to counter her, but it only helps you in the short run. As late game you have to choose who is the bigger threat and leaves you in a better position. The ADC or her. Both are really big threats late game and LB usually has the better positioning due to her immense mobility, but if you don't focus her she will nuke you the second she sees the chance.

DemiluniSMay 12, 20152 votes

you literally clueless about the champion, just pack your bag and leave. Leblanc has nothing to do with champion diversity in mid, if anything mid is the most diverse lane in the game. She got plenty of counters also, and you coming with the assumption she's always roaming, so fucking push the lane so she won't be able to roam.

You don't seem to understand. It's .75 of her ap damage off her kit when she uses her mobility. It has 0 effects if she actually goes for the kill with her other abilities. This isn't 75% of her damage. It is maybe 20% if she uses her mobility over burst. She needs to have to choose. She shouldn't get a lollipop for being an assassin and be told "It's okay, you're special. Because you are an assassin you get high damage and high mobility, you don't have to worry about the nerf bat". If she only loses about .3 damage per AP on her kit when she uses her W. It really isn't gutting her damage.

cutting off 75% ap ratio isn't gutting her damage? you got some serious problems dude. those 75% ap ratio are part of her damage, or you really that stupid to not understand it ?

JefftiffyMay 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you literally clueless about the champion, just pack your bag and leave. Leblanc has nothing to do with champion diversity in mid, if anything mid is the most diverse lane in the game. She got plenty of counters also, and you coming with the assumption she's always roaming, so fucking push the lane so she won't be able to roam.

cutting off 75% ap ratio isn't gutting her damage? you got some serious problems dude. those 75% ap ratio are part of her damage, or you really that stupid to not understand it ?

Are you too stupid to know her combos? Her damage combo is supposed to be W Q R E or W E Q R not W W Q E or W W E Q.

The fact you think she should do nearly as much damage as her normal combo meant for damage shows just how stupid you are for calling me stupid. It isn't 75%. Do you understand how scaling works at all. It scales at .3 + .45 on ult W. This in no way effects her ult Q or E. Meaning her actual damage is untouched other than the scaling nerf on her W meaning a .3 scaling nerf. At 700 AP that's 210 damage gone off her mobility. Meaning she still blows up whoever the fuck she wants as long as it isn't a tank or bruiser. She still has plenty of damage to kill them without .3 scaling. Hell it could do no scaling and still blow someone up. Currently she does 410 (off 700 AP) + 245 base from her W. That is ridiculously high for an AoE mobility spell.

For comparison Diana's ult does 220 + 410 damage to the target you dash to and can only reset one time in 6s for a potential double ult. This is single target damage on a gap closer only ability. Tell me why should LB get more damage on a basic ability that is AoE and acts as a gap closer and escape and has no requirements with a potential 4s longer CD (assuming Diana keeps waiting on Q to chain her ult which costs her a ton of mana).

The ult ability that forces you to go in and stay in and requires set up to even have a chance of doing more damage does equal damage as an AoE gapcloser/escape. And you keep sitting here telling me I'm stupid.

The more and more I sit on these forums I see why Riot has issues balancing the game. You have the idiot masses preaching stupid nerfs left and right. While other people are begging for buffs on champs that are fine. And then when people come up with logical solutions to give each champ their strengths and maximizing counter play where necessary it gets shot down by the masses.

I don't know why I even try to help people who sit and try to sit there and defend broken champs (not OP, just not functioning as intended). I mean elo has 0 effect in solo queue on how well you play. Sure it can make a difference, but a good majority of the time solo queue means nothing about player skill because of how bad matchmaking and how bad the entire ranked system is for a team game where the team is focused on more than the individual.

I could be challenger in 5v5s but Silver 3 now and you would be sitting here telling me I'm a nub, when I can actually be playing at a much higher level, but you are too busy dragging elo into this over discussing what is best for the game.

Until you can give me a valid reason not the nerf her W and ult W other than trying to make false claims such as it ruining her, you aren't going to prove anything.

DemiluniSMay 13, 20152 votes

Im not sure if you're trolling or literally that stupid. The more I read your posts, the more i get convinced that you're absolutely clueless about the champ.

Let's start from a comparison. What differeniate mages from assasins? Mages usually got more aoe, got more cc and usually immobile and ranged. Examples: malz, zyra, brand, etc. On the other hand assasins are usually characterized with high mobility, high single target damage(doesn't mean they don't have aoe abilities) and have to get "in personal" to deal their damage. Examples: fizz, talon, katarina, zed, etc.

Now let's talk about leblanc, and what makes her good. Well to start off, she's the only ranged assasin in the game. Range is a big advantage and it seem not fair that a ranged champion can do such high burst and be "safe". This argument isn't entirely true, since she's played like any other assasin in the game. She need to get "in personal" range to maximize her damage. "but she can go in and immidiately get out so she's still out of reach". This is partly true, but being ranged got disadvantages too. Surprise! Ranged champions are squshier by default since they aren't getting magic resist per level. Leblanc also doesn't have any sustain either, so she's probably the most fragile assasin in the game.

Now what's wrong with your suggestion? To begin with, it seems like you completely clueless about how her kit works by stating that her distortion isn't part of her damage combo. Distortion is the ability that allows her to act like an assasin by going in close range. Any combo that starts with W to close the gap, effectively minimize her burst. Any single combo you gave makes her be played like a poke mage, which is only effective if she's already extremely ahead.

Another point is her distortion damage is already lower that her single target spells, and the damage is relatively average to allow her wave clear, so lowering it even more just gonna make her shit tier. Story time! About 2 years ago LeBlanc's kit was more focused around her single target burst, specifically around her q r combo. Her burst was much higher, but she lacked any wave clear and fell off late game since of how single target oriented her kit was. With the changes they rebalanced her kit around her w, while reducing her W Q R damage because it was much more abusive and frustrating to play against. So you pretty much suggesting to bring this playstyle back.

You bringing examples of champions that got nothing in common with leblanc. Diana is a melee ap fighter, with a shield that allows her last in a fight. Both kha and tristana had resets on their mobility moves which potentially can do x4 the damage within a really short time window, so those abilities are made specifically for mobility instead of damage to support the "in and out" pattern, not to mention those champions are ad and doing much more damage with auto attacks. The only ability you can potentially compare leblanc's w to is fizz's e, which does more damage, got lower cd, and applies a massive slow.

You think you're right, but it doesnt mean anyone have to agree with you, actually most doesn't, since you suggest straight nerfs without any arguments to support it except of your biased opinion. Most haters just gonna look at champion's strengths while being completely blind to the weaknesses. Leblanc might be not the most fun champion to play against, but if you break down her kit to the components, and analyze her kit as whole, its pretty simple to figure out why it works the way it is. You can disagree with me as much as you want, but that's how it is. And if the balance team doesn't adress her balance state for such a long time, it seems that she's not that big of an issue as people make her to be.

Red FrostravenMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You really think Riot's gonna cut a champ's AP ratios in half and then just leave them there? She'd get massively buffed the very next patch to make up for it. This is completely unrealistic, LeBlanc isn't gonna be left a 35% win rate champ.

WHY?

High mobility champions, like Zed, LeBlanc and Riven can opt to NEVER DIE by using their skills to escape.

NEVER DYING is extremely powerful, and easily worth a heapload of resources in a balanced kit. If I played a champion that basically is immortal unless you make a mistake, I'd accept a low damage output and that I have to poke champions down to 40-50% health before I can all-in.

I top-laned a seriously bad Riven. Like: Stupidly bad. She let herself get down to 5% health versus me, Nasus, while I was at max health from lifesteal. I used my ultimate. She jumped. I flashed after her, and she jumped again. I cast Wither on her. She jumped again. I followed. She jumped again. And was closing in on her turret.... then she leapt and got a damage shield. But even with one flash and two withers to catch her, she had the mobility to escape, without boots, from our turret to theirs. I was so annoyed that I chased her under their turret and down to the next, where I had to stop -- because moving FAR FASTER than her and SLOWING HER was not enough to catch her. I literally could not catch her, with FAR superior movement speed and several slows and a flash.

That same problem applies to LeBlanc and Zed.

I main: Morgana, Diana, Nasus, Darius, Kayle and Ashe -- none of them capable of jumping a wall to escape. Watching Riven, Sejuani, LeBlanc, Zed and Gragas jump walls to escape -- getting a free flash -- irks me to almost no end: They essentially have Kayle's ultimate -- because NOT taking any damage from an enemy who was within melee range just one second ago IS the same as having a complete damage shield, when you're out of their range.

LeBlanc and Zed are extra toxic -- because they can go out of range and THEN deal damage to you if they so choose, getting back in range, and THEN escape once more.

His GoatlinessMay 12, 20151 votes

The only problem with leblanc RN is her really early game. They should drop her early game Q damage, maybe make its ratio go up every level like riven q. The nerf you proposed would be too much though.

vC48YNoGbJMay 12, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=His Goatliness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBEyjNYX,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-05-12T05:11:07.318+0000)

The only problem with leblanc RN is her really early game. They should drop her early game Q damage, maybe make its ratio go up every level like riven q. The nerf you proposed would be too much though.

I don't really have problems against LeBlanc because of my champion pool but I used to main her. Woudn't it be easy to last early game with a flask? Her mana costs are brutal if she uses QW repeatedly which is the actual threat as far as damage goes. Q spam isn't that great.