My Ivern winrate just took a fucking nose dive, because if I get scratched during my passive to get a scuttle then guess what? I guess I can't get the scuttle LOLOLOLOLOLOL ROFL LMFAO LOLOLOLOLOL ROFLCOPTERS (Insert Imaqtpie laugh here)
Ghazter2 votesLol I always wondered about the effect on Ivern, I'm scared to play him xD
Only one I'd dare play right now is Jax, I don't play the other cheap early game 1v1 champs so I'm kinda sunk.
MorganFreemanBot1 votesLol I always wondered about the effect on Ivern, I'm scared to play him xD
Only one I'd dare play right now is Jax, I don't play the other cheap early game 1v1 champs so I'm kinda sunk.
"Cheap early game 1v1 champs".
How is having an early game, at the cost of a late game, 'cheap' again? That's generally known as a trade off.
Ghazter3 votesNot when that early game prevents your opponent from having a game at all. If you can invade their jungle with no repercussions, That's not a trade-off, especially when a lot of said champs have a decent late game as well.
MorganFreemanBot1 votesNot when that early game prevents your opponent from having a game at all. If you can invade their jungle with no repercussions, That's not a trade-off, especially when a lot of said champs have a decent late game as well.
You're blaming the champions for the jungle design, that's wrong.
Xin, Trundle, Udyr, Olaf, Graves, and WW have always been strong early game champs; they've always been more capable of invades and more dangerous in early duels. They make sacrifices for this; WW isn't great late game, Trundle presents no threat outside of melee and isn't very good at catching people.
The "flaw" is the recent changes to the jungle. The over-emphasis placed on early fights, from freaking level 2 onwards, is in their favor. Weaker early game champs used to be able to live primarily in their jungle, meaning that the stronger early game champs had to go into dangerous territory to get them. This made it dangerous. However making Scuttle forces a 'fight early and often or fall insanely behind' style, which disproportionately favors these types of champions.
Ghazter2 votesrant incoming
IF YOU CAN'T FARM, YOU CAN'T JUNGLE. Additionally, with new changes, IF YOU CAN'T CONTEST SCUTTLE, YOU CAN'T JUNGLE.
Remind you of anyone? Maybe Evelynn, who used to be a pretty good jungler?
Yes, early game dueling jungles should have to go into dangerous territory, otherwise it's just an automatic win. Instead of giving the weak junglers a chance, now it's on them to make the sacrifices as if their life wasn't already hard enough.
non-rant
I admit I might be basing this off of the champions a bit to much, but that doesn't disregard the fact that they got significantly buffed, to a point where they can do whatever they want early game without punishment. If you have fast clear and/or good dueling, you win jungle.
I don't see why they would put emphasis on early game junglers and then prevent them from ganking early; it makes no sense. Now all they really have to do with all their time is invade and kill the other jungler.
MorganFreemanBot1 votesrant incoming
IF YOU CAN'T FARM, YOU CAN'T JUNGLE. Additionally, with new changes, IF YOU CAN'T CONTEST SCUTTLE, YOU CAN'T JUNGLE.
Remind you of anyone? Maybe Evelynn, who used to be a pretty good jungler?
Yes, early game dueling jungles should have to go into dangerous territory, otherwise it's just an automatic win. Instead of giving the weak junglers a chance, now it's on them to make the sacrifices as if their life wasn't already hard enough.
non-rant
I admit I might be basing this off of the champions a bit to much, but that doesn't disregard the fact that they got significantly buffed, to a point where they can do whatever they want early game without punishment. If you have fast clear and/or good dueling, you win jungle.
I don't see why they would put emphasis on early game junglers and then prevent them from ganking early; it makes no sense. Now all they really have to do with all their time is invade and kill the other jungler.
Again: You're not wrong, you're just approaching it wrong.
The champions who're opposing didn't do anything wrong. Graves, Xin, Trundle, Olaf, Udyr ect did not received any buffs this patch cycle. Nothing increased for them. Shit, the changes to machette actually nerfed most of their clears and WW received additional hard nerfs ontop of that.
The problem leans entirely on the jungle changes. The shifting emphases towards scuttle, and then shift to how scuttle performs itself, single handedly killed off a massive chunk of the semi-viable / niche jungle roster, and landed it squarely in the 'early game heavy' champion's laps.
I'm not saying its fair. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's good design; it's none of those things. However the answer is to re-balance / revert the jungle changes, not take a shit on the only junglers who have the ability to perform.
Ghazter1 votesAh, I see, I seem to have misrepresented myself. I don't mean to say that those junglers should be nerfed, I mean to say that the jungle, like you say, should be rebalanced. I meant that they got buffs as in they're favored by the changes, and in addition to that, they were already a pain to deal with.
Now, if they want to keep the jungle changes, they need to rebalance it so that the slower clear/early gank-reliant junglers can be more impactful while making those other junglers less impactful. I thought people were kidding when they said there was perma pic/ban for 
, but I've seen it. Not fun to deal with.
Done251 votesAre you high? New jungle is amazing for Ivern. The talisman buff means he just never runs out of mana, even at level one. Just take blue by your 4th camp and you're good.
KZ Engel1 votesi always thought it'd help ivern, considering he can get to the scuttle faster than any other jungler
or the fact that he doesnt even need to do scuttle... since scuttle gives the same exp as gromp.. and ivern has no "clear speed"
jocomotion1 votesLol, you forget people on the boards are NEVER happy.
