Sona - A tiny little request to re-imburse her with something small she had pre-rework

RedCyclone··38 votes·2,319 views

-Crescendo gives a stack of powerchord when casted

Please can we have this back? it was removed in her rework with no comment on it, I am pretty sure you guys didn't even know it gave her a passive stack then I play a lot of AP Sona mid, and it's really frustrating knowing that a lot of trades I lose, could have been won if I had that single powerchord stack after I ulted

And on a somewhat QOL related note, can Diminuendo get a better effect on it? It never gets noticed and other "crippling" effects like Lulu's polymorph get a way better reaction to it then the hardly visible green and red particles that Sona's Diminuendo does, it's really pathetic for a skill that should be pressed on much more by your allies, again the shrink effect you had planned for her in PBE made way more sense on the play of "diminish" in diminuendo, really confuses me as to why you removed it, specially since Trundles ult makes the target shrink

Can someone from Riot maybe drop by? Give us a little insight on their thoughts to these tiny but helpful changes, with all the talk of preseason balance changes ect. and nothing has been said about Sona, slowly losing hope here

32 Comments

1000angrybees2 votes

Honestly, I've always wondered why crescendo doesn't add a stack. It really should.

RedCyclone4 votes

I once did, but got removed in the rework, with nothing on it in the notes or anything mentioned by the reds on it, just removed...

Pika3101 votes

Amongst several other changes they made that were intentionally left out of the notes. Hell, if anyone remembers, the actual changes were never even posted in the news. You could only find them by searching the PBE boards.

RedCyclone3 votes

They actually didn't put the changes up at all, they put it in a page about her rework, no numbers there at all

Pika3102 votes

Even her champion page still doesn't have most of the numbers on it and even has several incorrect values just to add more confusion:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Page%20Issues%201_zpssdvjwihh.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Page%20Issues%202_zpsnjotdp7x.jpg

http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/sona/

I've even contacted support informing them of this, but they've still yet to fix it.

RedCyclone1 votes

wow

Dasaru2 votes

I will upvote anything related to Sona balance. I feel like she's the only support that's really suffering in this meta (and isn't planned on getting reworked). I honestly feel like she needs something to be worth playing. It feels as though she either gets ahead or falls extremely far behind to the point that the only thing in her kit with impact is her ultimate.

It feels like you're forced to build her as an AP Mage support. Because if you didn't go AP glass cannon, you'll be way more effective playing another support altogether.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

Quit pulling my thoughts out of my brain. #Agreed2TheMax

KnivingDude1 votes

I thought it was a bug that Crescendo didn't give a stack.

RedCyclone2 votes

Maybe it is, but I want it back It's not like it can really do much damage, a change like this is very miniscule, I'd argue that putting a good effect on W powerchord would make more impact without even buffing her

OverpoweredSoap1 votes

I never even knew Sona got a stack of powerchord when she ulted, and I played her religiously before her rework.

Would be nice change to give it back to her though.

Tormyth1 votes

Diminuendo works on turrets by the way i've tested it, not sure if its supposed to or not

RedCyclone5 votes

Probably isn't

#YA HEAR THAT RIOT, SONA HAS A BUG THAT YOU CAN REMOVE FROM HER THAT CAN BE PERCIEVED AS A NERF

Tormyth1 votes

{quoted}

Probably isn't

#YA HEAR THAT RIOT, SONA HAS A BUG THAT YOU CAN REMOVE FROM HER THAT CAN BE PERCIEVED AS A NERF

it's worked since her release though, just like the thresh teleporting to lantern except last i tested it thresh was patched

RedCyclone6 votes

Shh, Riot won't listen unless they can take something away from Sona

TNHA Baritone1 votes

Yo, is there any way I can contact you since we're on diff servers. I wanna have a long convo on sona ;3 skype maybe?

RedCyclone1 votes

Sure, but I would prefer if you gave me your name on Skype, for...reasons

TNHA Baritone1 votes

princetedz_4

Rozzeta1 votes

Remember that time when Volty and Morello said that Diminuendo was not working, and then fixed it, but assumed that the bugfix would give her more power than intended (even though she was balanced around Diminuendo working), so they nerfed W aura and active effect as a result? Good times.

RedCyclone1 votes

Fun times Talon got screwed too, nerfed for a bugfix

Red Ryu1 votes

{quoted}

Remember that time when Volty and Morello said that Diminuendo was not working, and then fixed it, but assumed that the bugfix would give her more power than intended (even though she was balanced around Diminuendo working), so they nerfed W aura and active effect as a result? Good times.

She was an alright pick around that time.

They were worried it would push her win rate up too much if it got fixed.

Who knows.

Rozzeta1 votes

Only situation which would barely justify treating a bugfix as a buff would be if Riot had full knowledge that Diminuendo was not working (if it was not working, as I remember other fixes because it reduced even true damage), and were balancing around it. In that case, Riot would have intentionally not told the playerbase that one of her skills was (supposely) not working correctly.

Red Ryu1 votes

{quoted}

Only situation which would barely justify treating a bugfix as a buff would be if Riot had full knowledge that Diminuendo was not working (if it was not working, as I remember other fixes because it reduced even true damage), and were balancing around it. In that case, Riot would have intentionally not told the playerbase that one of her skills was (supposely) not working correctly.

Given what they said,

"Volty: We have a number of tweaks coming for Sona in the next patch, as a consequence of this change:

  • Fixed a bug where Power Chord: Diminuendo was not decreasing damage dealt

Yup, that's right. Power Chord: Diminuendo hasn't been reducing the damage dealt by its target. This bug has been particularly tricky to detect because it was reducing the damage numbers displayed, just not the actual damage inflicted."

I'm not surprised they didn't catch onto this one, it visually displayed the reduction on ever level except the the damage actually dealt.

I don't fault them for this one, even more so for a bug like this.

Rozzeta1 votes

What happens after that bothers me more. Lots of items to analyze on a statement that justifies each change in a bugfix that has zero playtest to actually assess the impact it will have (specially as the skill's effect working correctly would still be accounted for in her power budget), but I'm short on time right now. I'll leave the rest of the post for anyone interested.

So after fixing this, we took a step back and asked, what will this do to Sona's balance? Given that Sona is already borderline "always pick" we were quite worried that she'd gain must-pick status after this fix. We asked what we could do to Sona to make her less powerful at high Elo and competitive play, where she is already most dangerous and the fix to Diminuendo is likely to have the largest impact. We also wanted to not hurt Sona's performance too much for other players, and she's not as relatively strong there (but still strong).

Looking at what makes Sona strong in competitive play, we identified that her early game burst is a major source of power, especially for competitive play. While it's important for champions to have comparative strengths and weaknesses, Sona is a bit too strong in this dimension, even beyond providing a unique strategic niche for her compared to other supports. In short, we think we can make some reductions here while preserving her unique strategic niche and playstyle. Here is the changelist:

  • Base Power Chord damage changed to 13/20/27/35/43/52/62/72/82/92/102/112/122/132/147/162/177/192 from 8 + (10 x level)

(This refers to the base, which is still doubled by Power Chord: Staccato.)

These numbers were chosen to hit her early game the hardest, and only provide minor reductions during other parts of the game.

We also identified that late game Sona can become really quite durable, more so than we would like. So we also targeted this as an area to remove power. This was where feedback from players was most valuable to informing our decision, as I asked for and specifically received a lot of input on which durability mechanics on Sona were most important to / noticed by players. Keep in mind though, that reductions here are largely offset by the bug we're fixing, so the overall reduction in durability isn't that big.

Aria of Perseverance

  • Bonus Armor and Magic Resistance to self and healed ally reduced to 6/7/8/9/10 from 8/11/14/17/20
  • Changed aura bonus Armor and Magic Resistance to 6/7/8/9/10 from 3/6/9/12/15

We wanted to compensate for some of these reductions by increasing Sona's early game durability, which is comically low on live.

  • Base Health increased to 450 from 410
  • Base Armor increased to 11.3 from 9.3

These are reverts of an earlier nerf we did to Sona's durability in lane, which we no longer feel is necessary.

After testing, we were finding that we hadn't actually lowered Sona's late-game durability perceptibly, between these changes and the bug fix, so we also added this:

  • Lowered the duration of Power Chord: Diminuendo to 3 seconds from 4

4 seconds is just a really long time for most debuffs, and we didn't feel that this needed to actually last that long to still have a major impact.

We've been giving Sona a lot of attention in playtests and will of course be watching her performance closely following the patch. I personally really enjoy playing Sona and I'm pretty confident that the last thing that these changes will do is make her unpickable. Ok, I hope this provides some context for upcoming changes, thanks for reading!

TNHA Baritone1 votes

They did the same thing with Zyra claiming that her plant AI was enough of a buff. How is fixing something that was dysfunctional a buff?

Hotdogs1 votes

I'm pretty sure that the range on her ultimate was reduced during the rework which made it feel much weaker to me.

Rozzeta3 votes

I do not think it was reduced. but the animation now more closely resembles the actual hitbox.

Red Ryu1 votes

Ult adding a stack would be nice though, not really the biggest change to her honestly. Quality change to her I suppose and would be fine.

But eh, wait and see with what Riot want to do with her post worlds. A lot of her issues are number tweaks right now with her along with how bot lane is going.

That is what need to happen first.

I forget what Riot exactly said before with her recently but she is on their radar.

I wouldn't say she is in an awful spot for a support but she needs some fixing done for a few issues she has right now.

SecretAgentHulk1 votes

Maybe ult could even give full stacks on Power Chord?

RedCyclone1 votes

I think something like that could be a little too much But it would be cool if you could stack W/E chords like that

Martyrofsand1 votes

If she had that then chances are she would be to strong. Going Q+Power Chord+Ult+Power Chord with an ADC would pretty much kill any other ADC, and non-tank support at 6, with minimal ability to respond. Love Sona but don't like the idea of her adopting some of the toxic play patterns we see in other champs right now.

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