Why are Wukong/Shaco able to dodge a Karthus ult with their clones?

Cloud273··7 votes·3,427 views

Let me expand on this, why should ANY champ be able to dodge his ult? Karthus is in a really sh*tty spot right now. He has no mobility whatsoever, and his 'q' is way too easy to dodge. His wall isn't very good either, since people can just walk right though it (unlike other walls, like Anivia, Veigar, etc). Yes I know Veigar's isn't technically a wall, but it's not like you can pass through it, so it acts like a wall. Anyways, this is just one of the many things Wukong and Shaco can do with their clones. I feel like these abilities give WAY too much safety that Wukong and Shaco don't really need. I mean, they already have stealth. Why do they need more safety in their kits?

Oh yea, that reminds me. Fizz can also dodge his ult, because Fizz can is the king of safety and can dodge EVERYTHING. I think it's fine that we have assassins, but they have WAY too much safety in their kits.

18 Comments

MisterHealYoGirl3 votes

Shaco's ultimate can block Karthus' because it makes him untargetable, but Wukong can't dodge it.

weeaboomer2 votes

Yeah, his ult should not have any counter play. It should go through zhonyas.

Alsek2 votes

So can Vlad.

So can anyone with a zhonyas.

So can anyone with a QSS.

MisterHealYoGirl4 votes

QSS only removes the visual debuff (the spooky column), not the damage.

Magus Polaris2 votes

No one should have to explain to you that there is a difference between abilities and items that cost thousands of gold.

And Wukong dodging it doesn't make sense according to the game! He's not in some Zhonya's status "removed from the game effect", his Decoy is just a stealth ability. Twitch doesn't dodge Karthus ult with his.

Samflash31 votes

So becsuse karthus isn't in the best spot right now, they should remove the skill to dodge abilities from shaco? Heck, why not nerf all champions and bring them to Karthus level.

Like why not just ask for Karthus buffs or QoL instead of being upset at another champion's kit

Nekusen1 votes

{quoted}

So becsuse karthus isn't in the best spot right now, they should remove the skill to dodge abilities from shaco?

no, he would still manually dodge skillshots, but Karthus 's ult is supposed to be a global thing, like he is "singing", having a clone doesn't mean you won't hear the Requiem.

Heck, why not nerf all champions and bring them to Karthus level.

that would literally mean the game is perfectly balanced.

LostSoul6661 votes

I find the ability to dodge his ult kinda makes the name Requim pointless. A nice buff would be this damage can't be dodged. except by kayle ult/zhonya's etc.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Only if you make every other champion's ult undodgeable as well. That means Fizz's fish stays on the ground until someone picks it up. Zilean's stays on its target until that target uses the ult. I can keep going if you want.

Livin like Riven1 votes

I'm okay with the Fizz ult change for when Urf comes around this year. Just toss a shark in the bush and anyone who tries to flank you gets ulted.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

I find the ability to dodge his ult kinda makes the name Requim pointless. A nice buff would be this damage can't be dodged. except by kayle ult/zhonya's etc.

Kayle doesn't block his ult. She shields herself (or an ally) from it. There's a difference. And unlike other champions, she actually has to burn her ult to avoid taking damage. Vlad can pool, Nocturne and Sivir can shield, Fizz can troll pole, etc. It shouldn't be so easy to dodge his ultimate.

Narzghal1 votes

Shaco's ult makes him unrargetable. That's how it works and part of his playstyle, being slippery and frustrating. And you forgot a big ol list of Champs who can dodge, block, or survive his ult.

Bard Ekko Fizz Kalista Kayle Kindred MasterYi Morgana Nocturne Sivir Tryndamere Vladimir

Saton1 votes

Is Kalista on there in reference to her ult?

l Helios l1 votes

Karthus is fine as he is. He's not S tier but he functions well. He has one of the best level 1s in the game and scales incredibly well, on par with some of the hardest scaling mages. If Karthus had mobility he could just kite in and out of fights using his Qs to deal damage constantly (20 mana for God's sake), which isn't really a good thing since you need to be able to get to him and kill him. If hitting his Q is a problem, it has almost no CD or mana cost, so you'll hit a few eventually. It's not like it's a Lux E or something with at least a > 1.5 s CD. Also his wall is meant as a soft deterrent, not a hard stopper. It functions for small catches and slowing targets. The slow is actually pretty strong considering it covers almost the entire width of mid lane at max level I believe (been a little while since I've played him). Karthus isn't bad atm. He just needs to hard scale, and games have to last long enough for him to do that.

Wukong I'm almost positive can't dodge it because it's nothing but an invisibility, and you can still be damaged during that. If he can, then Rengar ult and Talon ult should dodge it as well. As well as Shaco Q and Twitch Q. And LB passive. I'm fairly sure none of those work.

Shaco ceases to exist on the map for that half second during his ult activation so that's why he dodges it. Same principle with a Yi Q. Yi ceases to exist on the map for a half second.

Fizz's E makes him untargetable but he still takes damage from DoT. There's nothing wrong with that. Any DoT effects counter Fizz quite handily as he can't stop the damage. Fizz is also naturally frustrating in his own right as a champion, so that annoyance factor is just intrinsic in the champion.

It's not like assassins are the only ones who can counter Karthus ult. Kayle, Shaco, Zed, Fizz, Zhonya's, Morg (sort of), Lissandra, Kindred, Yi, Ekko, Vlad, Tryndamere (sort of), Sivir, Nocturne, Bard, Fiora, etc. can all deal with the ult.

Funny thing is, several of these can do the same thing with anything in the game. Any skill shot, targeted spell, etc. A notable one being Zed ult, which is much weaker than Karthus ult, I would argue. It's just a matter of a counter present in the kits/item builds of certain champions. If you couldn't get away from Karthus ult all it would be grossly overpowered. I mean, a spell that hits all enemies wherever they are is kind of silly if no counter exists outside of hitting Karthus himself.

There's nothing wrong with legitimate counters to such a spell.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Wukong can't, shaco's is an ultimate and isn't exactly easy to pull off a karthus ult dodge with it. If Shaco messes up, he's just wasted his ultimate. If Shaco doesn't mess up, woopdy do, he probably wasn't fighting at the moment if his ult was up.

Ralanr1 votes

Did you know that Pantheon can also dodge it by using his own ult? Did you know that's awesome?

Boulderox1 votes

split second invulnerability.... same with any other item/ability thta does such

grug1 votes

gangplank can dodge with oranges

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