A jungler who thinks its okay to not do early ganks while the enemy jungler is ganking very often.
I am so tired of these morons who think their main job is to spend the first 15 minutes farming the jungle, ganking 1 time compared to an enemy who's ganked 5 or 6 times already.
Then they wonder why they lose.
Rewt8 votesOk so first imma hit you with some knowledge. Then im going to give the run down.
Knowledge: Some junglers are better at ganking than others and some cant really do it till level 6. 
vs 
. Lee sin is going to have more pressure pre 6. But post 6 diana is going to have more lethal ganks. Laners need to know this and play safe until their jungler comes online and is able to start doing things.
Rundown: Jungle Runs on an XP and a gold deficit. We get less gold and less xp than laners. This forces us to only go for the ganks that are set up. This means the enemy laner must be damaged to at minimum 3/4 hp. and the be pushed up. Also they cant be too far ahead or its gonna mean we die too because believe it or not we do jack shit for damage before we get items.
If you are 0/2 before we finish our first clear we arent going to help you. You are a lost cause. We are going to let nature take its course instead of suiciding into the lane and giving the laner who is already ahead 2 more additional kills. Now we might gank another lane and then contract their help to 3 man gank the other lane. This happens fairly often. But if you are 0/3 before we can get the other lane there..... well you are on your own buddy.
Now for a quick insight into the mind of the jungler!!! "I could gank for the 0/3 Darius top and die to the 3/0 fiora with a black cleaver at 10min in...... or i could gank for our 1/0/0 syndra mid and get her further ahead so we can shut down the fiora later in the game"
I think its a pretty easy decision
DonnieDarkin1 votes"If you are 0/2 before we finish our first clear we arent going to help you. You are a lost cause."
Untrue. Completely urban myth bullshit. I think you forget that this is a game agains people, who can be tricked and outplayed, not to mention they aren't perfect and can mess up. To say 0/2 or /3 is a lost cause is saying that you are okay with how fed the enemy lane gets, which is near invetitable , and you are HOPING that whatever actions you take will compensate for that, which are no were nearly as inevitable as far as success rate goes.
""I could gank for the 0/3 Darius top and die to the 3/0 fiora with a black cleaver at 10min in...... or i could gank for our 1/0/0 syndra mid and get her further ahead so we can shut down the fiora later in the game"
I mean, you are arguing against yourself here. Do you REALLY think that you er going to get you mid outfed over that fiora? In your heart of hearts, you know that you rarely are going to help that mid catch up to the already 3 kills fiora has, and what she is sure to get later on.
I know league players like to regurgitate ideas they hear, but really, just analyze your matches and think about this. All of what you said may be good and true in a vacuum, with teammates and organization and communication. But in solo que, I disagree 110%.
Rewt6 votesYou dont seem to understand how this game works.
If you are O/2 by the time i finish my first clear you are going to be level 2 at max. and have A dorans item + Pots.
I am going to be level 3 with a hunters machete and maybe 1 potion
The enemy laner will probably have pushed in your lane and backed. This means that in 90% of situations the enemy laner will be level 4-5 with a tiamat item.
There is no way in hell we are winning that fight. And by that fight. I mean getting them below 50% hp before we both fucking die.
EDIT: Here is the gold breakdown in this situation. 300g + 400g + 300g = 1000g + 3 waves of approx. 100g. each giving them about 1300g. + passive gold gain.
DonnieDarkin1 voteswow. I mean, we all may as well be robots if outcomes are so set in stone. I'm done with your close minded nonsense.
FreeVolibear1 votesYeah... solid argument. You really broke down his counter thoroughly.
DonnieDarkin1 votesI don't need to. hes trying to pigeon whole this game into simple numbers, despite it being a dynamic situation with many many variables at play.
For example you can mathematically talk about great opening hands in poker, and what posiition to play them in, but it doesn't mean you cant have success deviating at the right time against the right player. You know that he is raising with AK, for example, and normally again a raise like that from early position you wouldn't play your 56 suited but for the fact that based on how he is playing you know you can get him to re raise because you know he will think you are trying to steal the pot after he misses, and you can break him if you catch anything on the flop.
Trying to talk about the game in the way he was talking about it only shows he has no understanding of games, at all.
DrCyanide1 votesIt's not robotic to pick a better way to turn a situation around. He's not saying to surrender the game right then and there, just that his influence might be better spent other places.
Laner 101 (in low elo) says you should assuming your Jungler is good for nothing, playing as if you don't have one and like you won't get a single buff all game. Worst case scenario, you'll be right, but you played accordingly and made the best of that situation. Never assume they'll want to do the same thing you want them to do, or that bailing you out will be in the best interest for the team.
If I died two times early in lane, I'd realize it was going to be rocky from there on out and want our jungler to get someone else rolling while I tried to salvage my lane. The last thing I'd need is for our Jungler to push themselves too hard to gank for me and net the enemy even more kills.
DonnieDarkin1 votesThats nice but I know for a fucking fact I can win the lane from behind with a gank.
DrCyanide2 votesThat's nice, but your Jungler doesn't know that, so they're going to take the safer option.
DonnieDarkin1 votesI tell them I can. I tell them how many times I have done the match up and why it will work. I say, "he burned flashed and I died, but I still have
and my revive, please gank before his flash is back." I will still get no fucking response 95% of the time.
chipndip11 votesOk so first imma hit you with some knowledge. Then im going to give the run down.
Knowledge: Some junglers are better at ganking than others and some cant really do it till level 6.
And guess which jungler is garbage out of the two? Not being able to gank for shit pre-6 is archaic design, and those types of junglers are generally ran out of the jungle or reworked.
If you are 0/2 before we finish our first clear we arent going to help you. You are a lost cause.
I'm telling you now you're a bad jungler. Sometimes a few good ganks can take a feeding lane and make it a leading lane. If you can't make a proper judgement call on this, you're not nearly as good as you think.
Yes, there's a "point of no return", but that isn't just 2 deaths.
We are going to let nature take its course instead of suiciding into the lane and giving the laner who is already ahead 2 more additional kills.
And if they can't carry you just put all your eggs in one basket, then dropped the basket. Not everyone that's winning lane is a strong carry. Camping someone like Galio or Poppy, for example, isn't worth in comparison to trying to save a struggling Twitch, Jinx, or Yasuo lane, since Poppy and Galio fall back into defensive patterns as the game progresses while the latter three champs are strong carry champs.
For all the "junglers" that post this sentiment I find it funny when my lane's winning out and I'm getting repeat visits from nearly the entire enemy team while my jungler's farming or doing useless shit. You guys just say whatever sounds the coolest, huh?
Now for a quick insight into the mind of the jungler!!! "I could gank for the 0/3 Darius top and die to the 3/0 fiora with a black cleaver at 10min in...... or i could gank for our 1/0/0 syndra mid and get her further ahead so we can shut down the fiora later in the game"
To be fair: Yeah, you'd gank the Syndra.
To be fair again: Odds are Fiora's gonna pop the FUCK off if you let her hit mid-game without slowing her role with a hypothetical score and build like that. "Later in the game" better be like 3 minutes later.
Rewt1 votesRead my response to the OP and you will See why ganking for an 0/2 lane is 90% of the time a death sentence. Its simple itemization and how that snowballs in the early part of the game.
Bot lane is drastically different than Any other lane and ganking them is a completely different mindset than the other 2. I usually just leave that one out of discussion since you need to look at completely different situations for that one compared to the other 2 lanes.
In a bot lane You dont look at the deaths of your team. You look at kill distribution. Since there are 2 people you need to see who the gold went to. If the ADC is 4/0/0 then yea..... fuck that shit. He is gonna have a BF sword and possibly be able to 1v3. but he wont have to because he will have his support making it a 2v3 and there is no way in hell we are winning that when the enemy ADC is gonna be level 5 when ours is level 2.
The Whamboozler5 votesThe worst player on the team is usually the asshole telling everyone who the worst player on the team is.
DonnieDarkin1 votesAHHHH classic try to make this about me. Alll you nerds like to do is tell the person complaining that everything is their fault. Its like you get off on trying to specifically take others down a peg. Fucking disgusting and pathetic. Address the topic or don't bother
The Whamboozler2 votesMad because true? Sorry if it bruises your (clearly) fragile ego, but the guy raging at his team is usually doing far more damage to his team's chances of winning than a guy who fed four kills early. What I said was both my opinion AND actually addressing your stupid topic.
Stop raging at people. At no point EVER has raging at your team and putting the people you need to work with to win on tilt ever done anyone any good. If you're raging at your team, you ARE the worst person on the team. Both as a player, and as a human being.
DonnieDarkin1 votesYou could have addressed the post talking about jungler strategy, different champs etc. You choose to try to make this about me. You didn't address the topic. Can you read dude? I wasn't raging in the game. I came here to rage. God damn, its just like...it makes you feel better to try to personally attack other people. Like i said, disgusting and pathetic
The Whamboozler1 votesIt IS about you. Any time you want to rage at your team. Don't. What good has tilting your teammates or making them hate your guts personally EVER done?
You don't like my accusatory tone, but you see raging at and flaming your teammates as ok... and THAT is the problem. Hypocrite much? Why do YOU deserve to be treated with such respect but those teammates your flame and insult don't? Think on that.
DonnieDarkin1 votesHaha again, you are still assuming I was raging IN GAME.
Your responses to me some of the stupidest shit I have ever seen on these boards. NOTHING in my original post implies I flamed my team. You are assuming that so you can attack me.
I'm sorry that the world told you were smart and that your opinions matter, but honestly, you are just one of those people who doesn't realize how very little intelligence and critical thinking skills he actually has.
The Whamboozler2 votesKid, your offensive and insulting demeanor here is reason enough for me to assume you're a pretty common rager. Personal attacks. Smug, condescending attitude. Insults and speaking down to people for bothering to speak to you. If you're NOT a toxic rager, I'd be shocked.
Also, in my first post here, you'll note I didn't say "you are a rager" I said "the worst player on the team is usually the one raging and blaming his teammates". Now, if that IS you, I was spot on... wasn't it? And if that was NOT you, why so defensive homie? I didn't call you out specifically until you got a hair up your ass and started tearing into me.
But hey, I'm sure you're just gonna keep assuming you're right cause you want to be. Keep spitting them personal attacks and insults at me while ALSO trying to convince me that you're not someone who rages at his team. Makes a REAL strong case.
DonnieDarkin1 votesI see what you are trying to do. I know you think you are smart, but I get pissed of with any of my posts when I feel like a comment doesnt't address the issue. You are trying to read into that to bolster your assumption I rage in the game. Cute, but wrong.
Anyways, what was your point? Oh that's, you literally have none. You posting on my post has accomplished nothing at all. GOOD JOB.
The Whamboozler2 votesWell of course not. My post accomplished nothing. Your post accomplished nothing. Our lives accomplish nothing. In the end all of our struggles are meaningless and we die alone and without reason. Eat at Arbys.
Of course, I DID get your attention and bring to light my point... which you seem to have gotten finally. So I'd say actually that this post DID accomplish something. It also brought a glimmer of joy to my otherwise blackened heart... so there's that. But if you're still denying being a rager in-game, great. I hope you're not. I mean, I have no proof for that and you sure as fuck SEEM like a rager, but hey... whatever. Go forth merrily and don't rage, my friend. The point of this post was never to change your mind. No one in the internet has ever changed their mind over an argument. People are stubborn and stupid and cognitive bias is a powerful thing. The point of the post was to amuse myself, and rile you up. In both goals, it succeeded.
I'll let myself out. Good day.
DonnieDarkin1 votesClearly you don't understand passive aggression. Else you wouldn't be so confused as why someone like me can talk how I do here and yet not be a rager in the game.
The Whamboozler2 votesUm... ok. So you're passive-aggressive? What are you, my girlfriend? That's just being a rager and being kind of a sissy about it.
DonnieDarkin1 votesSo my options are to not vent, or what, vent in the match. What is your point exactly?
The Whamboozler2 votesOr... just a thought here.... you could leave and play something else. The game is supposed to be fun, not stressful, annoying, upsetting, or infuriating.
Incognonymous4 votesNo use ganking when every lane is losing and feeding. The junglers job is objective control, not wiping laner asses. Sometimes, that means ganking a lane. Sometimes it means leaving it to the good god Darwin to sort out while other objectives are secured.
DonnieDarkin1 votesI think that is backwards thinking. You are basically resigning to the fact that enemy champions in lane are going to get fed, and hoping that whatever future actions you take not related to shutting them down sooner than later will be better than trying to shut them down earlier and helping a lane catch up.
I think that kind of thinking is why many games are lost. You are assuming the lane is beyond saving, and you are often wrong when you assume that. Its not hard to shut down a enemy in lane that has 2 or 3 kills over your ally. Last game, our Vi got 2 infernal and I got rift herald. But by that time, enemy ADC had like 13 kills, with our lane turrets destroyed. So, in this case her farming the jungle getting drakes didn't compensate for the early damage that happened.
Incognonymous6 votesI think that is backwards thinking. You are basically resigning to the fact that enemy champions in lane are going to get fed, and hoping that whatever future actions you take not related to shutting them down sooner than later will be better than trying to shut them down earlier and helping a lane catch up.
Jungler operates at a deficit. They will never beat a laner that's already ahead, especially if they have to coordinate ganks with a laner who has already proven themselves incompetent.
The lane was lost. A dying lane is a hand you have to cut off to avoid the infection spreading. A feeding laner will continue to feed beyond the laning phase.
DonnieDarkin1 votesGod you guys just regurgitate talking points like trained parrots. Have you guys actually played the game? of course you can bet a laner thats ahead with smart plays. Good lord. Fuck off.
Incognonymous2 votesGod you guys just regurgitate talking points like trained parrots. Have you guys actually played the game? of course you can bet a laner thats ahead with smart plays. Good lord. Fuck off.
No. No you can't. Jungler kits and jungler items are optimized for PVE, not PVP. Jungle items themselves use an incredible amount of stat efficiency for stuff that won't matter in a 1v1.
A jungler will never beat a solo laner with equivalent gold, disregard the fact that a jungler will never have equivalent gold.
DonnieDarkin1 votesSo what? even with a champion had as a 2 kill lead, one good stun from a jungler and some autos will enable the laner to close the deal. Easily. What fucking world do you live in dude?
"A jungler will never beat a solo laner with equivalent gold, disregard the fact that a jungler will never have equivalent gold."
Who the FUCK is talking about a 1v1 from jungler and laner? Try to stay focus, maybe go take your fucking meds first before you post.
Incognonymous3 votesSo what? even with a champion had as a 2 kill lead, one good stun from a jungler and some autos will enable the laner to close the deal. Easily. What fucking world do you live in dude?
"A jungler will never beat a solo laner with equivalent gold, disregard the fact that a jungler will never have equivalent gold."
Who the FUCK is talking about a 1v1 from jungler and laner? Try to stay focus, maybe go take your fucking meds first before you post.
I AM
I'M TALKING ABOUT A FUCKING 1v1, YOU COCKROACH
BECAUSE THE SHITHEAD LANER, YOU IN THIS SCENARIO, IS TOO INCOMPETENT TO HELP
YOU'VE DONE NOTHING BUT FEED ALL GAME
And now you're raging at your jungle for not wiping your ass. I'm embarrassed for you, but mostly I'm embarrassed for your parents. Do they know that you're this incompetent? God, I hope not. I hope your parents have someone better to carry on their legacy.
An unbroken line from the last universal common ancestor, and this is the result. Sad. Very sad.
DonnieDarkin1 votesMY post was NEVER TALKING ABOUT A 1V1 so it resident matter if you are, it wast what the post was about.
Stop trying to change the parameter of the argument just so you can try to make a point.
And then you attack me for putting you in your place. You are joke dude.
Incognonymous1 votes[deleted]
DonnieDarkin1 votesHaha you arent even coherent at this point.
"So, I break policy just once. I gank a lane that's already behind. Only you don't respond to my pings, or my in-chat communication. I am left to 1v1 the laner. "
That was never the situation I was talking about. So, please go away at this point.
Hexs Fortune1 votesNo use ganking when every lane is losing and feeding. The junglers job is objective control, not wiping laner asses. Sometimes, that means ganking a lane. Sometimes it means leaving it to the good god Darwin to sort out while other objectives are secured.
The junglers job is OBJECTIVE CONTROL. I used to complain like the OP, but now that i've actually tried jungling, you have no idea how many times my laners just RANDOMLY DECIDE TO BACK without looking at the state of the map. Freeing up the enemy mid, bot or top to roam and secure objectives/ win other lanes/ double team the jungler
HawkSh0t1 votesNo use ganking when every lane is losing and feeding. The junglers job is objective control, not wiping laner asses. Sometimes, that means ganking a lane. Sometimes it means leaving it to the good god Darwin to sort out while other objectives are secured.
Except they don't secure objective. They just farm chickens all game.
BigBellBrute3 votesAll you defending the jungler don't know the rules.
Rule 1. It is ALWAYS the support's fault. Rule 2. The jungler is just another support.
Any questions?
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesand cats do not abide by the laws of nature
HaIlMonitor1 votesLol that is the truest thing I have ever seen someone say about the player base ideals.
RainXBlade3 votesI'm guilty of being the "heavy farming, but not ganking" kind of jungler. Then again, I'd rather farm than to fail a gank or potentially get myself killed when I gank a lane. The reason is that when I gank, my goal and/or intention is to get a kill. Burning a summoner spell imo is not enough for me because I don't trust the laner of the lane that I ganked for to capitalize on that weakness.
HaIlMonitor1 votesThey usually just stay and get killed on the counter gank or the tp lol.
Colgate Gator3 votesI have the slight belief that OP is salty about a match.
DonnieDarkin1 votesA match? SO many matches.
DonnieDarkin1 votes15 down votes. More proof that people on these boards are easily offended Riot drones who downvote anything they don't agree with.
Lanyr3 votesIt makes sense to down vote something you don't agree with you potato. If the jungled is constantly banking then lanes should be safer and if you don't feed the jg kills your jgler who is power farming should come out ahead in gold and experience. Now if you don't ward lanes and push too far without extra pressure that's not on your jgler to fix. Often laners especially in low Elo do not know how to set up their lanes for ganks. If your lane isn't positioned then it's a waste of time for the jgler to make a low probability gank
DonnieDarkin1 votesI guess I'm not like the rest of you drones. I don't downvote simply because I disagree. The rest of your post is drivel...potato.
HaIlMonitor1 votesOften laners especially in low Elo do not know how to set up their lanes for ganks. If your lane isn't positioned then it's a waste of time for the jgler to make a low probability gank
This is super true. I am sorry you wont listen to it anyways, and honestly I laugh at post like this but that quote is super real. How often do laners want to to show up, magically cc a champ for 4 seconds, deal 99.99 of the damage but they somehow get the kill? Almost everytime I gank. Where the wave is, how much cc you have, how well you poke and cc all lead into you getting ganks. And honestly if you get first blooded people expect you to be a potato and don't help you because why waste their time when they could gank someone else in hopes to get them ahead. 3 or 4 fed people can kill a single fiora, unless you are so bad she kills you 10 times in lane.
Lanyr1 votesBeing close minded yourself doesn't mean we are. I called you a potato because it's a vegetable and in game vegetables are useless. Play some jungle see the other side of things, if you're not a jungled don't judge on how they do their game as they shouldn't criticize how you can or poke. Lighten up buttercup
DonnieDarkin1 votesYou insult me, then tell me to lighen up. Class act. I have played jungle, and no one here has yet made a good argument as to why a team should be okay with being ganked every 2 minutes while their jungler (who had early ganking abilities) isn't ganking. The fact that you think I'm closed minded makes me weep for the fucking future. You and the rest, you are just parroting what you read as gospel...and then calling me closed minded. What a fucking joke.