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Why do people use bad stats?

Eedat··2 votes·1,021 views

Specifically the one I'm seeing a lot recently is pick rate. There seems to be a consensus that high pick rate means low experience on the champ. Something along the lines of "why does X champion have a high pick rate and high win rate?"

My question is why would you make a completely unfounded assumption that since a champion is played a lot, people have no experience on them when you can literally see the average experience on the champ?

I'm going to use Jinx as an example because she's very popular at the moment and demonstrates this pretty accurately. I'm also a Jungle/Top main so...... inb4 "biased ADC main QQ!"

"Jinx has a high pick rate and high win rate!"

Jinx:

http://champion.gg/champion/Jinx/ADC

Win rate: 51%

Pick Rate: 21%

Playerbase Average Games Played: 93

What this means is that even though Jinx has a 21% pick rate, the people who are playing her have an average of 93 games on her, which is the 3rd highest for the ADC role. That is very, very far from "inexperienced players bandwagoning OP fotm champ" that so many people will claim just because of her pick rate.

Let's use Vayne as another example. It's impossible to keep track of how many time I've heard "how is Vayne allowed to have X win rate when she's supposed to be high skill cap with a 20% pick rate?!?!?!?"

Vayne:

http://champion.gg/champion/Vayne

Win rate: 51%

Pick rate: 20%

Playerbase Average Games Played: 124

So is someone going to explain how an average of 124 games is inexperienced? 124 average games makes her the most highly experienced ADC champ by a large margin. While you're there, feel free to look at Lucian who has an atrocious win rate even though people are very experienced with him.

But it doesn't stop there. People will also use the inverse to justify their champ being too strong. Lets take a look at Nunu, for example.

Nunu:

Win rate: 54%

Pick rate: 7%

Playerbase Average Games Played: 15

The same people who will attempt to say Vayne is busted because her high pick rate are the same exact people who will say Nunu is fine because a smaller pick rate means people are more experienced on him. When in reality Vayne players are literally EIGHT TIMES MORE EXPERIENCED on their champ than Nunu players. And that Nunu actually has the third lowest average experience out of every single champ in the game (and thats including Ivern LOL)?

So can we just stop using the BS argument that high pick rate somehow means that people are inexperienced on the champ when thats just flat out wrong? Can we please start using the playerbase average games statistic because its SO much better? Feel free to actually look up the stats on LeeSin Thresh Janna Lucian Riven etc and the rest of all the "high pick rate means only new players pick them" champs so you can understand you'e been wrong the entire time.

14 Comments

Boulderox1 votes

because the TRUE way to show the rate a champion is based on the loyalty-winrate. P.S. lolking btw ex. http://www.lolking.net/champions/vayne?chartType=performanceLoyalty&region=na&map=sr&queue=normal#statistics

http://www.lolking.net/champions/nunu?chartType=performanceLoyalty&region=na&map=sr&queue=normal#statistics

high spikes show inbalance

C4pt Chunk1 votes

I would like to point out though that champion.gg uses Plat+ data only. So the stats you use to complain about others bad stats are by default bad if you are making a blanket statement about the community. Although not so much if you are only talking about Plat+. Seeing as how you are gold, these stats do not work for your argument.

Eedat2 votes

The game is balanced around Plat/Diamond which is justified because it sets a realistic goal. Bronze data is completely irrelevent and is rightfully ignored. This game would be a shit show if it was balanced around bronze. I'm fine with accepting that my data isn't included even though my Gold 2 or 3 MMR is in the top 20% of players. I'm also fine with the game not being balanced around my ELO. I accept that I'm not quite good enough to be considered "good".

And before someone says "but plat is garbage", plat is the top 10% of players and is a realistic goal. "But why not balance is around challenger then?" Because challenger is not an achievable goal for many players. If you want a game balanced around Challenger, go play DotA2.

Best Kog NA1 votes

{quoted}

Bronze data is completely irrelevent

And that's where you went wrong

Eedat1 votes

Nope. Bronze data is more or less completely irrelevent. The game is not and should not be balanced around being bad at the game. Gold is the top 25% and I'm still bad lol

Best Kog NA1 votes

You're preaching about "bad stats" yet you're ignoring a whole group of people. The stats you're using are the very "bad stats" you're telling people not to use when talking about balance.

Eedat1 votes

But bronze stats are bad stats lol. The game isn't meant to cater to people who are bad at it. Hence why it is balanced around Plat/Diamond. If you want a MOBA that is balanced around low ELO, go play HotS. If you want one that is more intense than league, play DotA2

Best Kog NA1 votes

That's not how statistics work though. You can't just go and pick and choose which statistics you use. That's like taking only the part of a fact that supports your opinion. It's not how statistics work.

Eedat1 votes

You can't just go and pick and choose which statistics you use. That's like taking only the part of a fact that supports your opinion. It's not how statistics work.

Except it is exactly how statistics work in practice lol. If you gather data and are trying to focus on a specific market, some data will be excluded. For example:

Lets say you are trying to design a shirt. There is a plethora of data in front of you. You decide you are going to design a women's shirt. Why would you use data for whats popular for men? You wouldn't. That data would be ignored.

Same with LoL. LoL is balanced around plat/diamond. Why would data from bronze be valid? It isn't.

C4pt Chunk1 votes

But, this is not what you are doing. You are in gold and are referring to people you yourself see in gold yet using stats that don't pertain to gold. It's like somebody in California complaining about how many traffic lights there are per sq. mile(in California) and using the stats of a totally different state. It doesn't work.

C4pt Chunk1 votes

I was not trying to attack you it was more of a just a statement about those stats not serving a good purpose in this argument. Who is to say that the people saying those things are in plat+ or if they aren't that champions picked in their elo are played as often as people in plat+ normally do. It also ignores that champions with high play rates numbers are skewed by people who have played the game longer and are not a good stat to use to compare these things as there are way too many outliers skewing the data.

Eedat1 votes

Yeah but this was specifically attacking the argument that high pick rate must mean unexperienced bandwagoners.

C4pt Chunk1 votes

But it does, you are just ignoring the data that doesn't apply to your argument. You yourself said you hear people say these things often and then you use data that does not correspond to why you, in gold, would hear such things. You also bring up how successful people are in higher elo's with champions as a point to prove why lower elo's shouldn't say these things but it doesn't work like that.

Also the elo's that will have more inexperienced bandwagoners are the elo's you are ignoring. Yes, the game should not be balanced based off of lower elo's but you aren't making that argument you are making an argument against people complaining about champions quickly moving from a low pick rate to a high pick rate having a correlation with inexperienced players. Which this is actually very likely.

People will try out champions that they see somebody else do extremely successfully, that's psychology. Worlds are going on right now and pro players are doing some crazy things that work for them so players are trying to replicate that. Could the things they saw in Worlds work for those players? Yeah, but the players who switch champions on a whim to the newest thing most likely do not have the practice on said champions or in the playstyle that they are trying(see support MF).

Eedat1 votes

Yes, the game should not be balanced based off of lower elo's but you aren't making that argument you are making an argument against people complaining about champions quickly moving from a low pick rate to a high pick rate having a correlation with inexperienced players. Which this is actually very likely.

But I'm not. Champs like LeeSin Vayne Lucian etc have always been popular, even when they're in bad shape. They didn't jump from low to high. Which is why their playerbase average isn't affected as much if they get buffed.

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