It's truly an enjoyable experience having legitimately no chance of winning because someone's W key isn't broken. I love watching an ADC just stand there and auto-attack while everyone hits him but since his damage is so broken he just heals through it.
Tèrminus13 votesI feel like Kog is the prime example of how it's supports that are overtuned and not the ADCs.
Kog is immobile, has squishy base stats, and his damage does take a bit to get going since his core item is Rageblade. Without a support protecting him, he can in most cases be killed or heavily crippled before his damage ramps up.
It's just that his support WILL be protecting him, though, and supports happen to be VERY good at doing that right now. Particularly Lulu, what with her shield giving Kog more AS as well, and still MORE AS if she buys Censer.
NodirjonSattarov2 votesI thought I had to come into this thread and lay down facts but THIS GUY took care of it. Thank you!
Ahristocats1 votesKog is immobile but abuses bruiser items
he's the only adc who can get 100 armor, 100 mr, 3k hp thanks to 
and still shred everyone with W from 700 range
LordGeovanni1 votesI feel like Kog is the prime example of how it's supports that are overtuned and not the ADCs.
Kog is immobile, has squishy base stats, and his damage does take a bit to get going since his core item is Rageblade. Without a support protecting him, he can in most cases be killed or heavily crippled before his damage ramps up.
It's just that his support WILL be protecting him, though, and supports happen to be VERY good at doing that right now. Particularly Lulu, what with her shield giving Kog more AS as well, and still MORE AS if she buys Censer.
Supports are supposed to protect the not just the carry but everyone on the team. but carries killing everyone in less than 2 seconds is why supports have to funnel everything into the carry to try to make their carry be the one that shreds the team before the enemy carry. You say its support but i say the same thing about when you guys got 
nerfed because adcs were doing too much damage and while being unkillable. What has changed? not a dam thing adcs still havent gotten nerfed just 'changes' to vayne.
although i do agree and beileve that Lulu gaining attack speed on her shield was stupid and unnecessary and uncalled for change. but it came about because everyone was complaining about the amount of shielding rather than the amount of damage adcs do in no time and amount of healing they get from lifesteal because of the unparalleled amount of damage they do
chipndip15 votesEvery time we switch the top adc, this happens.
Just get used to the fact that the bot lane role really only supports up to 4 marksmen being meta defining picks at a time. When one falls out, one comes in. If the top spot is someone like Vayne, do we REALLY need to knock her down to put someone like Trist or Kog up there instead? You guys hate them way more.
NodirjonSattarov1 votesIt's a yearly complaint around this time about Kog'Maw.
LordGeovanni1 votesEvery time we switch the top adc, this happens.
Just get used to the fact that the bot lane role really only supports up to 4 marksmen being meta defining picks at a time. When one falls out, one comes in. If the top spot is someone like Vayne, do we REALLY need to knock her down to put someone like Trist or Kog up there instead? You guys hate them way more.
Or we can keep knocking down the top oppressive one until they are no longer oppressive to the rest of the game. Fix despite the problems. Rather than not fix any problem and just deal with the one you have forever.
Ratpie2 votesOr we can keep knocking down the top oppressive one until they are no longer oppressive to the rest of the game. Fix despite the problems. Rather than not fix any problem and just deal with the one you have forever.
Every champ is different, so as meta changed there will always be the top champs. And so we are clear, I am not talking about actual Rito changes to the game, just as people adapt and change their playstyles. The question that should be asked, is what can currently counter and play that. If there is no counter, then there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Kog has counters, and 53% win rate is not that bad especially when there are 3 champs right up there near him statistically.
Right now ADCs have the most balanced win rates of any lane. The top adc has 53% win rate. Top jungler has 55% top sup 55% top mid 56%, top top is almost 58% right now. Since the last changes I have noticed a drop off in early game on adcs that feels healthier.
LordGeovanni1 votesEvery champ is different, so as meta changed there will always be the top champs. And so we are clear, I am not talking about actual Rito changes to the game, just as people adapt and change their playstyles. The question that should be asked, is what can currently counter and play that. If there is no counter, then there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Kog has counters, and 53% win rate is not that bad especially when there are 3 champs right up there near him statistically.
Right now ADCs have the most balanced win rates of any lane. The top adc has 53% win rate. Top jungler has 55% top sup 55% top mid 56%, top top is almost 58% right now. Since the last changes I have noticed a drop off in early game on adcs that feels healthier.
except junglers have a far more large pool to pick from than adcs in general none the less viable adcs. and then there is off meta junglers . you comparing a role to a class.
Ratpie1 votesIf you were saying this a season or two ago, I hands down agree, but right now junglers do not have a large pool that are successful. There are some that can hold their own at best, and then there are a few that can help carry a game. But jungling is a lot tougher this season.
LordGeovanni1 votesIf you were saying this a season or two ago, I hands down agree, but right now junglers do not have a large pool that are successful. There are some that can hold their own at best, and then there are a few that can help carry a game. But jungling is a lot tougher this season.
Success was never a factor just people who play in the position
Ratpie1 votesSuccess was never a factor just people who play in the position
LOL, funniest comment I have read in a while. The champs you go into the jungle with makes a huge difference. Fiddle used to be amazing in the jungle, now he struggles extremely. There are a lot of champs that used to work in the jungle, but if you choose to go in with them now, you are handicapping yourself and your team. Or I guess we can just ignore that meta exists.
LordGeovanni1 votesLOL, funniest comment I have read in a while. The champs you go into the jungle with makes a huge difference. Fiddle used to be amazing in the jungle, now he struggles extremely. There are a lot of champs that used to work in the jungle, but if you choose to go in with them now, you are handicapping yourself and your team. Or I guess we can just ignore that meta exists.
this is pretty smart considering that we are talking about the fact that the meta makes the majority of jungle champions unviable. Which is a much larger pool of champions compared to adc champions. To which you say that you cant count jungle champions cant be counted as jungle champions unless they are currently viable. And adc champions are played in 90% of games and are gonna be in every game so a 50% balanced is more like 45 for them. while in the jungle you got Assassins versus fighters versus tanks versus marksmen versus mages. and i dont agree with a 50% winrate for them either classes considered higher risk (how if you force them to have the same winrate as classes considered to be stable) should be a lower winrate on average than classes considered more steady picks. The flaw with calling 50% a balance bench mark is that if a champion is ever harder like riven and azir are supposed to be they have to have more average power in their kit than other champions initially just to do that. Which Skews the concept of power budget if some champions get a power budget of 300 and others get a power budget of 500.
Ratpie1 votesEvery time we switch the top adc, this happens.
Just get used to the fact that the bot lane role really only supports up to 4 marksmen being meta defining picks at a time. When one falls out, one comes in. If the top spot is someone like Vayne, do we REALLY need to knock her down to put someone like Trist or Kog up there instead? You guys hate them way more.
This^^. Basically whatever champ is currently doing the best is going to be raged against.
Rexxiee1 votesEvery time we switch the top adc, this happens.
Just get used to the fact that the bot lane role really only supports up to 4 marksmen being meta defining picks at a time. When one falls out, one comes in. If the top spot is someone like Vayne, do we REALLY need to knock her down to put someone like Trist or Kog up there instead? You guys hate them way more.
Boards have an natural hate towards vayne (and yasuo/zed).
Even if any of those champs are within 40% win rates they would still complain about them (like they did when yasuo was at 44%).
Vayne is fine to play against, shes only a true problem when you cannot beat her early game, but without relic her early game is super abuseable once again.
"but a fed vayne can still destroy teams if well proctected" well, thats the whole point of playing the champ, the thing is lower elos do not understand how to play laning phase.
Hópe4 votesKinda dumb how these late game marksmen are scaled better than my early game ones at 15 minutes
Rexxiee1 votesKinda dumb how these late game marksmen are scaled better than my early game ones at 15 minutes
Its because they trashed lucian and caitlyn and draven has no good keystone to bully ppl in lane.
Tbh lucian is no better to play against when hes remotely strong, adcs that cant match lucian early game are unplayable whenver hes meta as pick rate goes to almost 50%.
greekvandaL2 votesActually i'd rather have Kog than Vayne. Cause a dumb Kog cant escape without summs. A dumb Vayne can just press E and unless you got a qss to insta cleance it without dropping your combo ( which is hard for player with low mechanical skill ) she escapes. She can also hurr durr R Q and buy time for herself. Also on the bright side Thorm and Adaptive guts kogs dmg.
Pika Fox1 votesHes. Immobile.
Immobile.
Im. Mo. Bile.
They probably have a protect the kog comp. If you see a kog pick, either get champs that can reliably isolate kog/his team or play around not teamfighting and force them to react to you. Of course hes going to do insane damage at insane range, again, hes immobile.
LordGeovanni1 votesNo she didnt. Yes he does.
Mojihito6661 votesI just played vs kog lulu duo ...
Daddy Ants1 votesLet's see.
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-
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- Melee only please.
receiving direct reasonable nerfs please.
xelaker1 votes is already weaker for ranged stuffs. not to mention if you take it on most adcs you drop a fair amount of damage
Nyarlathοtep1 votesAt least i can run away from kog (despite his range), i can counter his dmg ( tabi and adaptive helm) and he cant run away.
Critmaster Garen1 voteswhen vayne is overtuned she doesnt take skill either. she just flat out beats her opponents in lane trades and then snowballs into a state where kiting or outplaying matters little.
or she just 2 shot people out of stealth.
this is evident by her high winrate even on people who have little games played on her.
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RtVv3iOc,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-01-26T16:24:56.300+0000)
when vayne is overtuned she doesnt take skill either. she just flat out beats her opponents in lane trades and then snowballs into a state where kiting or outplaying matters little.
or she just 2 shot people out of stealth.
this is evident by her high winrate even on people who have little games played on her.
She hasn't got a high win rate anymore.
Critmaster Garen1 votesShe hasn't got a high win rate anymore.
but whenever she did, the difference in winrate for people who played her for the first time and people who played her 150 games was small. which means she was simply just overtuned and there was no real evidence that she took a lot of skill to perform well with.
this was the case before her nerf right now aswell.
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RtVv3iOc,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-01-26T17:36:37.257+0000)
but whenever she did, the difference in winrate for people who played her for the first time and people who played her 150 games was small. which means she was simply just overtuned and there was no real evidence that she took a lot of skill to perform well with.
this was the case before her nerf right now aswell.
Yeah I agree she was overtuned.
