Why does Pyke need three forms of CC as a highly mobile assassin with a resetting true damage ult?

94372148·Mar 27, 2019·76 votes·17,542 views

Like It's a meme that he has a blitzcrank pull (that oh btw, can be repositioned mid cast or used early as a higher dmg slow) on top of an AOE stun that is also an escape spell dash, on top of invisibilty which helps him get away, on top of a resetting ult that's also a dash. Oh he also has better grey health than Tahm. He can't build hp because of all his safety so that's good, but hey, that wouldn't be fair so let's give him a metric fuckton of damage for the hp he builds!

It's a meme how overpowered, anti-fun, and quite frankly utter bullshit this champion is. Zero windows for punishment where as if you make ONE wrong move, bend over and get ready for it because he's gonna give it to you.

148 Comments

FluffehMar 27, 201954 votes

Because his damage is very low for an assassin and all of his abilities are incredibly telegraphed?

epic style broMar 27, 201918 votes

{quoted}

Because his damage is very low for an assassin and all of his abilities are incredibly telegraphed?

Was that a joke? Or do you actually believe Pyke has low damage?

YorukazeMar 27, 201928 votes

Well, compare him to Talon, Zed and Blue Kayin. His damage pales in comparison. I'm not saying he doesn't deal quite a bit of damage, but it's far behind every other AD assassin.

epic style broMar 27, 201919 votes

{quoted}

Well, compare him to Talon, Zed and Blue Kayin. His damage pales in comparison. I'm not saying he doesn't deal quite a bit of damage, but it's far behind every other AD assassin.

Talon, Zed and Blue Kayn are all about dealing damage. Pyke manages to do that while also having an execute, cc (which none of the above mentioned have) and a pull.

ZephyrDrakeMar 27, 201920 votes

[{quoted}](name=epic style bro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RT0UKVEr,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T23:22:49.080+0000)

Talon, Zed and Blue Kayn are all about dealing damage. Pyke manages to do that while also having an execute, cc (which none of the above mentioned have) and a pull.

and yet he deals less damage than every assassin in the game and mage "supports"

epic style broMar 27, 20197 votes

{quoted}

and yet he deals less damage than every assassin in the game and mage "supports"

Not really. But okay

YorukazeMar 27, 201913 votes

Support Pyke form Platinum+ deals half the damage of Brand support. Pyke Brand

The thigh guyMar 27, 201914 votes

{quoted}

Support Pyke form Platinum+ deals half the damage of Brand support. Pyke Brand

Difference being brand is a poke support. In general a champion made to poke repetedly is going to do more damage over all than a champion meant to drop someone from 100-0 in one rotation due to health regen, potions and recalling.

SweedishGunnerMar 28, 20197 votes

The difference is Brand mindlessly spams spells until he procs his passive where as Pyke relies on his team to get his execute spree off.

The thigh guyMar 28, 20193 votes

{quoted}

The difference is Brand mindlessly spams spells until he procs his passive where as Pyke relies on his team to get his execute spree off.

Brand also has highly conditional cc, where as Pyke just has to land his hook and then chain cc you.

This champion is basically Leona+blitzcrank+zed

karolmoMar 28, 20194 votes

Pyke's hook is the most predictable thing in the world and it also heavily slows him on cast. If you can't dodge pyke's hook on a regular basis you just need to improve your dodging skills.

The thigh guyMar 28, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Pyke's hook is the most predictable thing in the world and it also heavily slows him on cast. If you can't dodge pyke's hook on a regular basis you just need to improve your dodging skills.

Okay? And brands w is highly telegraphed, his q is slow and his e is negligible. If you lose to a brand you need to improve your dodging skills.

See that argument works Both ways.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 28, 20193 votes

lmao. Can you take an even more biased example? Brand with his massive AOE dmg and % health dmg and poke in lane?

Holy shit.

YorukazeMar 27, 20199 votes

I'd rather have Pyke bot instead of Zyra or . Also is easylly counterable by Sivir Nami Soraka Morgana

ZephyrDrakeMar 27, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather have bot instead of or . Also is easylly counterable by

ok...

IllabetheMar 28, 20196 votes

He's literally right.

Sivir: Can't pull, negates all damage too. Nami: Controls the flow of the fights through move speed bonuses, her E slow applied to an adc so a post skill Pyke cannot run away, Bubbles on Pyke in's..... A good Nami can always shut him down (but a bad one will feed). Soraka: Her E literally cancels his Q, and if he doesn't cancel his Q Cast in time, will root him. She can literally 1v1 duel Pyke as well, simply by ranking Q. She out heals his damage and has the mobility to dance. Morgana: I'm on the fence. I understand why Pyke mains don't like her; But I also know how to beat Morgana with Pyke, so it's iffy for me. She can only Black shield one of the two laners, so if you're good, you can change targets and focus the one not shielded.

Anu3isIIMar 28, 20192 votes

Imo, Morgana has enough time to react with her E when you want to throw your Q. Her major issue is that her Shield has significantly higher cooldown than the hook, making her extremely vulnerable after using it.

I would say that Pyke vs Morg is more of a skill match-up, where both have tools to fight each other.

IllabetheMar 28, 20192 votes

Nah. If Pyke starts charging Q, Morgana has to either cast it, or risk missing. Once charged, Pyke's Q only takes about .5 seconds to hit its target, which means Morgana trying to spell shield retroactively will often result in it being late. Most morgs will simply spell shield the person who is most likely to be the target. If one person is 60% exposed, and the other is 10%, behind minion waves, they will generally go for the 60% for the spell shield.

But...... a GOOD Pyke can flash hook the 10%.

Furthermore, if the Pyke is really smart, he won't use the hook. He will just go in to melee range, Q for damage/slow, and then use his E differently depending on how the opponent reacts. Trying to Hook is asking for a Morg Q to the face.

IllabetheMar 28, 20195 votes

You do realize in one combo, Zed and Talon do about 220% of Pyke's full combo damage?

FluffehMar 27, 201921 votes

[{quoted}](name=epic style bro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RT0UKVEr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T23:14:13.921+0000)

Was that a joke? Or do you actually believe Pyke has low damage?

Unquestionably. It would be easy to point to literally any other assassin but compare him to the traditional mage supports like brand and annie and vel'koz, Its not even close. Until somebody gets into his execute threshold he does very poor damage, thats the whole point. Pyke sets up his actual damage dealers and then goes on an execute spree. Its very difficult for pyke to be independant of his damage dealers without a massive lead

YorukazeMar 27, 201916 votes

He's gonna be able to 1vs1 your ADC if he has a lead, true. But that's also true for every Mage support or assassin.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 29, 20191 votes

That's true of basically everyone, tbh. Hell, I've even 1v1'd a Tristana as fucking Soraka and gotten a kill.

Granted, it was URF, but still, it's not uncommon for basically anyone to be able to 1v1 ADCs.

hrooza dota Mar 29, 20192 votes

can relate, i have smacked a MissFortune as Leona solo before .

at least pyke build like an assassin to solo kill

DuskDaUmbreonMar 29, 20192 votes

Can confirm Leona does that.

Her mid-game damage and survivability is actually insane.

Omen46Mar 28, 20195 votes

The assassin who relies on a crew?

DAMN! Best explanation EVER.

Also fun, hit a Pyke loading q with a morgana q while wearing a black shield. I promise, Pyke's LOVE that.

MankeyMadnessMar 28, 20195 votes

{quoted}

The assassin who relies on a crew?

DAMN! Best explanation EVER.

Also fun, hit a Pyke loading q with a morgana q while wearing a black shield. I promise, Pyke's LOVE that.

Pyke loves Morg in general. Shield blocks all CC until it breaks, but it only blocks magic damage

Which Pyke has 0 of. So he has literally no method whatsoever of breaking that shield and is non-existent for 3-5? seconds

DeusVultMar 29, 20193 votes

honestly i think that is why pyke has never seen any meaningful nerfs

is because he is an assassin who depends on having others help him do damage til the point where he can use his ult.

Combine this with 90% of his playerbase being people who play assassins that require 0 support and are generally not the greatest at seeking help from teammates, and you get a champ that can be very good except that his playerbase actively goes against his strengths.

I cant say how many times a pyke lane has gotten fed from early 2v2s only for pyke to start trying to do his own thing solo, die 1v1 (or 2/3) because he didnt have the damage and that downtime allows the enemy back into the game

MoonscourgeMar 27, 20199 votes

[{quoted}](name=epic style bro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RT0UKVEr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T23:14:13.921+0000)

Was that a joke? Or do you actually believe Pyke has low damage?

He can't solo anybody with his combo unless he is already fed. High cooldowns.

YorukazeMar 27, 201916 votes

Also has absurd CD's for an assassin (Except for the ultimate), like 7 seconds on his primary damaging spell with 40%cdr and has I believe 2k hp or less at level 18 which is like 3 hits from a full build ADC.

JaspersMar 28, 20192 votes

His HP at level 18 is 2300 (the 4th highest base HP), his MR is the second highest base MR and his armour is the Highest base Armour at 130 by 15.

His ult can do 30% of most ADCs and Enchanters HP without bAD or lethality bonus.

IainG10Mar 29, 20192 votes

And he can never have any more HP than that...

Dbag17Mar 28, 20191 votes

[deleted]

FluffehMar 28, 20192 votes

{quoted}

if ur so smart and good why u have a 43% its cause ur a great player huh

A 43% what?

Sire HippingtonMar 29, 20192 votes

damage is very low

That's ratehr relative. On his own, it's not very high later on, but his basevalues early on are quite high and IF he gets his R executes, his damage contribution gets pretty massive. The issue with pyke is that he depends on his team to get targets into execute range(unless very fed), but if things work out he can add insane damage on top of strong utillity. This makes him a rather binary champ that is very frustraiting to deal with whenever he gets rolling. Imo he needs to loose the reset on his ult to reduce his best case scenarios, which would allow to give him a bit more reliable power.

The thigh guyMar 27, 201929 votes

Because all the whiney midlaners who “don’t own any support champions” get auto filled because there’s 50x more of them than any other role, needed something stupid af to play when they inevitablly get autofilled.

YorukazeMar 27, 201912 votes

Here's a Shaker for all that salt. You're welcome.

MankeyMadnessMar 28, 20198 votes

{quoted}

Here's a Shaker for all that salt. You're welcome.

Thats literally why they made Pyke. For autofilled Supports to play him instead of Brand/Lux

Dasdi96Mar 27, 201929 votes

So riot can advertise him as a support for autofilled assassin players.

MoonscourgeMar 27, 201910 votes

Please just play him before shitposting like this.

VoraciousXMar 28, 20199 votes

I'm curious, what is Pyke's 3rd form of CC? Because as far as I can tell, his passive isn't CC, his W isn't CC, and his ult isn't CC. This means only his charged Q and E are CC, which is 2. As for the question of why Pyke should have CC, he's a support champion, and he cannot be played like a mid laner or a top laner(at least not without extreme difficulty). He doesn't have waveclear without building it, and he relies on kills to actually get damage, of which, he can't get kills without CC. He pays for his CC with less damage. Also on his ult, it only resets if he kills someone. You can heal someone about to die to it and he loses all kill potential.

Pyke as a support RELIES ON HIS ADC more than other supports. If he goes in without his ADC as backup, he's just gonna die unless he's fed.

TzQGRUST39Mar 29, 20192 votes

I believe he was counting the slow you get from his uncharged q as a separate cc.

JuiceBoxPMar 28, 20198 votes

His damage is quite pathetic.
He is a support squishy diver, he's meant to have cc
100% of this champ's damage can be denied with the move command.
his gray health gives him sustain between trades, not during fights. 5)more like a thresh pull 6)???

SnowbrandMar 27, 20195 votes

You could describe any champion like that and make it sound broken... Pyke is a bit on the op side, but there are supports that do more dmg like mage supports and others that do other stuff better.

Kai GuyMar 27, 201918 votes

I like to reply to post like this by expressing how clearly op Soraka is.

she has one of the highest heals in the game on one of if not **The **shortest CD. Need i even mention the powerful global heal with instantaneous casting that steroids for low hp targets? She also has 3 forms of AOE CC in her kit. Plus free steroids if she hits Q that can also be shared with her W. Massive range on her Q poke in addition to a almost no existent cd Negligible MP cost and solid scaling + steroids+ sweet Spot slow. her E has better base damage and scaling then some mids Ultis. Plus instantly applys Aoe CC and Can Snare the entire enemy team. She also gets 75% ms steroids at no cost to her form her passive.

BROKEN MEME CHAMPION, its so unfair how antifun a healers is who negate the damage you do especially when they come with massive range on their poke, GLOBAL healing, have stupid short CD and high damage AOE hard CC skills on a long cast range and instant cast hitscan mechanics for that. Then you give them a 75% MS steroid and the ability to give MS boosts on their heal. RITO please, gut this op champion.

The thigh guyMar 27, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RT0UKVEr,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-27T23:37:51.415+0000)

I like to reply to post like this by expressing how clearly op is.

she has one of the highest heals in the game on one of if not **The **shortest CD. Need i even mention the powerful global heal with instantaneous casting that steroids for low hp targets? She also has 3 forms of AOE CC in her kit. Plus free steroids if she hits Q that can also be shared with her W. Massive range on her Q poke in addition to a almost no existent cd Negligible MP cost and solid scaling + steroids+ sweet Spot slow. her E has better base damage and scaling then some mids Ultis. Plus instantly applys Aoe CC and Can Snare the entire enemy team. She also gets 75% ms steroids at no cost to her form her passive.

BROKEN MEME CHAMPION, its so unfair how antifun a healers is who negate the damage you do especially when they come with massive range on their poke, GLOBAL healing, have stupid short CD and high damage AOE hard CC skills on a long cast range and instant cast hitscan mechanics for that. Then you give them a 75% MS steroid and the ability to give MS boosts on their heal. RITO please, gut this op champion.

Countered by a 800 gold item.

Kai GuyMar 28, 20195 votes

Your not entirely wrong but like the OP here I am 100% neglecting anything that's not misleading or exaggerated. For example OP mentions how Pyke has 3 forms of CC but neglects to mention that only 2 of them are usable at any given point because of the trade off of using Q for slow or for a pull. The fact that using E to engage removes it as a viable escape option. And the fact that his QWER all have clear visual indicators that alert other players to their usage.

The point of posts like OP and mine are to mislead players with out addressing realistic expectations for in game. I enjoy highlighting when folks do this by using Raka as an example because she is very easy to put on paper as an example of overloaded but does not enjoy being treated as a high tier pick in most players minds.

RekseeMar 28, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RT0UKVEr,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-27T23:37:51.415+0000)

I like to reply to post like this by expressing how clearly op is.

she has one of the highest heals in the game on one of if not **The **shortest CD. Need i even mention the powerful global heal with instantaneous casting that steroids for low hp targets? She also has 3 forms of AOE CC in her kit. Plus free steroids if she hits Q that can also be shared with her W. Massive range on her Q poke in addition to a almost no existent cd Negligible MP cost and solid scaling + steroids+ sweet Spot slow. her E has better base damage and scaling then some mids Ultis. Plus instantly applys Aoe CC and Can Snare the entire enemy team. She also gets 75% ms steroids at no cost to her form her passive.

BROKEN MEME CHAMPION, its so unfair how antifun a healers is who negate the damage you do especially when they come with massive range on their poke, GLOBAL healing, have stupid short CD and high damage AOE hard CC skills on a long cast range and instant cast hitscan mechanics for that. Then you give them a 75% MS steroid and the ability to give MS boosts on their heal. RITO please, gut this op champion.

B-B-But I wanna be an overpowered healbot! [sg-soraka]