Is it perfect? No. But I'm smiling a lot more than frowning, and it seems to be a hell of a lot better than 'Let's Trashcan Veigar and Kass' 5.4.
-Bard's coming out.
-Cinderhulk will let a lot of tanky junglers breathe easier.
-Jungle's getting a TAD bit easier.
-Luden's Echo can start making its way into builds.
-Nidalee nerfs!
I just hope 5.6 continues this pattern.
Conturbatio20 votesStill waiting for REAL veigar buffs. I meant, Veigar returned to his previous power level. Did you know his Q's speed got buffed to 2200 on PBE instead of 2000? (Not complaining about the fact his E didn't get the dash interruption feature because a Rioter has stated it had some bugs and it'll be released on 5.6).
Splininka9 votesIf I'm not mistaken, this round of buffs put Veigar's cage exactly back to where it was pre-nerf from the perspective of the Veigar player. It used to appear after a .5 second cast delay. Now it has a .5 second delay that starts at the same time as the animation, meaning that it appears at the same time as the old instant version.
If I'm misinformed, on how old Veigar worked, please correct me. I used to play him a bunch, but relied on "feel" rather than knowing exactly how it was hooked up.
EDIT: Whoops, the cast time is 0.25s and there is nothing in the notes that specifically states the delay starts any sooner than in did last patch. Thanks for the corrections everybody!
Daedalus8713 votesIsn't Veigar cast time 0.25 s, not 0.5?
If I am reading the patch right, Veigar stun is currently 0.25 cast time -> particles appear + 0.75 delay -> stun, total of 1 second delay. After the patch it will be 0.25 sec cast time + particles appear -> 0.5 delay after casting -> stun, total of a 0.75 second delay.
Splininka4 votesYou could be right on the cast time being 0.25 instead of 0.5. If that's the case, it will be a 0.5 second total delay after the patch (since the cast time doesn't delay the cage anymore). Meaning that it comes out 0.5s faster than on live, but 0.25s slower than old Veigar.
So I stand corrected on it bringing him back to where he was, but it is a huge buff from the previous patch. Even if he isn't as strong as he used to be, I'm pretty sure it will get him above 40% win rate again.
junglerboy163 votesThe Warning particle comes out immediately now, and still lasts for a full .75 seconds, and the total time is reduced because the warning starts when the .25 second cast time starts instead of ends. The whole thing is now .25 seconds faster than last patch, but still .5 seconds slower than it was originally before the delay.
Daedalus8712 votesThis is what I'm reading.
CupcakeTrap11 votesIf I'm not mistaken, this round of buffs put Veigar's cage exactly back to where it was pre-nerf from the perspective of the Veigar player. It used to appear after a .5 second cast delay. Now it has a .5 second delay that starts at the same time as the animation, meaning that it appears at the same time as the old instant version.
If I'm misinformed, on how old Veigar worked, please correct me. I used to play him a bunch, but relied on "feel" rather than knowing exactly how it was hooked up.
I actually think you're significantly mistaken on this point, unless I myself have seriously misunderstood what's happened.
Total time from button press to cage appearance: 0.25s
The old Veigar stun could hit a target with the edge, if you lined it up so that the edge landed on top of them and they didn't move too much during the relatively short time between pushing E and the cage's appearance. This allowed Veigar to stun a target, preventing them from killing him and often allowing him to kill them instead.
If Veigar failed to land the stun on the edge, of course, nothing prevented the enemy from killing him from inside the cage. Missed stuns tended to very quickly result in gray screens.
Total time from button press to cage appearance: 1.00s
This was a massive change. Before, the cage appeared after the .25s cast delay, stunning anyone standing within the ring surrounding the cage. After this change, the .25s cast delay was followed by a large warning animation that lasted for .75s and showed where the cage would appear, providing an amount of time equivalent to the delay on Cho's Rupture ("UP you go!") to step away from the cage. Bear in mind that, unlike Rupture, Event Horizon is not a filled circle but a hollow ring: it only stuns people with the walls. If you're either outside the cage or inside the cage, the ability cannot stun you.
This change was a huge nerf to Veigar, because it changed his Event Horizon from a stun (albeit one with an awkward hitbox) into at best a zoning ability that could force an enemy to stay inside a fairly spacious cage.
They did give it a little extra range; I think 50 units, or half a Teemo.
Total time from button press to cage appearance: 0.75s
The dash-stopping is nice; before, people could Caitlyn net or whatever throw the wall, landing on the other side (right in Veigar's face) stunned but close enough to promptly kill him after recovering.
However, the primary nerf is still there: there is still a Rupture-length delay during which all an enemy need do is walk a few steps in any direction to avoid being stunned. If the edge isn't placed on top of them, it's even easier: they have a full .75s to not walk into the slowly appearing walls.
Why does this matter? Well, it means that Veigar's Event Horizon at best can force an enemy to stand in the cage and fight him. That's not really a great scenario for Veigar. Actually, that's usually the scenario that Veigar is trying to escape.
Lord Graves III4 votesit means that Veigar's Event Horizon at best can force an enemy to stand in the cage and fight him. That's not really a great scenario for Veigar. Actually, that's usually the scenario that Veigar is trying to escape.
To be fair, Veigar putting the enemy team in that situation isn't so bad considering what an opening that is for his initiator, and that his Q can hit 2 enemies.
He can drop rocks off of the tank or fighter's CC. And they can land their CC off of his cage. In a straight duel veigar isn't as strong anymore, but he is encouraged to use his event horizon to the teams benefit rather than just stunning his chosen target.
Its a big change pattern and thematic wise, but I like it. I like that the delay and cast time have been rolled together.
CupcakeTrap6 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Graves III,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RrMkAERu,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-12T01:15:24.014+0000)
To be fair, Veigar putting the enemy team in that situation isn't so bad considering what an opening that is for his initiator, and that his Q can hit 2 enemies.
He can drop rocks off of the tank or fighter's CC. And they can land their CC off of his cage. In a straight duel veigar isn't as strong anymore, but he is encouraged to use his event horizon to the teams benefit rather than just stunning his chosen target.
Its a big change pattern and thematic wise, but I like it. I like that the delay and cast time have been rolled together.
Even in a teamfight situation, there's no reason for anyone to get stunned by his Event Horizon, unless his team has already stunned them. I think that's a truly fundamental flaw.
It bears mentioning that these changes were meant to be "compensation buffs" for the removal of DFG, widely considered Veigar's core item.
As for being weaker in a straight duel, I don't think that should be glossed over quite so quickly. The reasons why he's no longer any good at dueling also make it even harder for him to survive lane. Before, if he landed it just right, he could use his Event Horizon to escape from an enemy mid or gank. He could also use the threat of a full-rotation 100-0 burst to keep the enemy at bay, once he got fed enough to credibly threaten that.
When I tried new Veigar, the enemy mid let me free-farm my Q without trouble, but I have absolutely no idea why they did. I was playing in Normal queue, which might explain it. I cannot imagine a Gold mid letting Veigar free-farm after these changes.
Lord Graves III2 votesEven in a teamfight situation, there's no reason for anyone to get stunned by his Event Horizon, unless his team has already stunned them. I think that's a truly fundamental flaw.
I disagree. Just because they don't get stunned doesn't mean you didn't do anything. You forced movement, course changes, you got in their way. This is the original purpose of the spell. If veigar was supposed to have a skillshot stun, he could have one. He doesn't. He has a cage that stuns enemies who touch the walls. They will in fact only be stunned if they hit the wall, I don't think this is a flaw. The purpose isn't the stun; its the cage. That old veigar just used it for the stun was really a design flaw of the champion.
It bears mentioning that these changes were meant to be "compensation buffs" for the removal of DFG, widely considered Veigar's core item.
I actually do not think it does. They had an event (DFG removal) that finally forced their hand and they had to at least change veigar. They are trying to put him in a place that allows him to be healthy for the game. Growing pains are to be expected. Especially for a champ like veigar, who was designed on old goals and directives, this was gonna suck. I actually found the core ideas behind the changes to be brilliant though. They just shouldn't have been so conservative with their first iteration.
The reasons why he's no longer any good at dueling also make it even harder for him to survive lane.
I again disagree. When spaced properly, yeah your enemy will avoid the stun, but a defensive E can still force the enemy to disengage, and Q still can last hit from 200 more distance than it used to be able to. Surviving lane has always been the challenge with veigar, but he still has the tools to do it.
He could also use the threat of a full-rotation 100-0 burst to keep the enemy at bay, once he got fed enough to credibly threaten that.
He still has that threat. He just doesn't get to do if for free just because the enemy is wtihin 1050 range. (I know it was hard to actually do this as veigar, but he was capable of it, and had to be balanced around that.
Escape horizon is still perfectly strong for ganking or escaping. It just requires a little more planning and a little less reaction time.
When I tried new Veigar, the enemy mid let me free-farm my Q without trouble, but I have absolutely no idea why they did. I was playing in Normal queue, which might explain it. I cannot imagine a Gold mid letting Veigar free-farm after these changes.
I won't lie, he did get weaker. That said, part of why you get to farm is because if they try to put themselves between you and your minions, they eat a baleful strike, AND YOU STILL GET THE MINION! Also you likely have a new wave of minions who will happily push a low level champion back behind their minion line. Truly zoning veigar out early on has actually gotten more difficult for enemies. In exchange landing aggressive stuns is much much harder. Its still great for ganking. Veigar dropping you inside of his cage during a gank is still a death sentence. You might get to wiggle around inside it, but he and his team are still gonna kill you.
BuCkeT SeiZureS3 votesI hate to tell you this, but you clearly did not play veigar. Here are the things you are correct about. His Q can harass and farm minions at the same time His Old E was toxic (stupidly OP) He is weaker
Here are things you are incorrect about. Veigar being useful in a teamfight with his cage: people will not be stunned in his cage because there is a telegraphed warning before hand. While they cannot dash away once the cage is up, they can dash/ walk away during the warning. in order to get close enough to truly trap them, they SHOULD have the presence of mind to notice your intention.
It doesn't matter that these were supposed to be compensation for dfg removal: Veigar is a burst mage. While he did not NEED Dfg, he certainly used it well. You realize that, unless removing dfg was a straight buff for veigar, these changes were clearly in the wrong direction.
Event horizon is still good for escaping and ganking: This is flat out false. a lot happens in .75 seconds, including your death and movement. while stopping dashes will help, most people will be on top of you or completely gone by the time your walls trigger. it is very difficult to plan a full second ahead in League of legends, not to mention that now your moves are being telegraphed and they are the ones reacting. A veigar player now cannot win, only the opponent can lose.
Zoning is harder against a veigar: Also just completely wrong. before you would have to worry about a stun followed up by lots of damage if you got too aggressive. now dont have to worry about that at all. and the minions argument you bring up is only relevant for VERY early game. Veigar's Q was mainly used for harass, not for farm. now there is no reason for an enemy to not spend their laning phase making you miserable, because you really cant punish them. a gank can help you out, but they just need to buy wards. easy. Veigar has 0 lane pressure now. His baleful strike also mow pushes the wave with hitting two minions. that is not something you want because if you are ganked, you are dead. veigar waddles very slowly and only incompetent junglers will not kill you unless you burn flash.
Catching someone inside the cage is a good thing: Back when Veigar had dfg, catching someone in the cage was a VERY bad thing. In fact, it was considered a missed stun. so that has not changed. While, yes, it can work out if your team is there, there is not one circumstance where it works out well for veigar in a 1v1. He will die 90% of the time. now, not only is it harder to stun someone, but also harder to trap them in the cage. and even harder to land your damage (W was only good for waveclear or if you landed your stun). So yet another completely false fact you have presented.
Veigar has the tools to survive lane: Where are you getting these facts? Sadly, no veigar does not have the tools to survive lane. he is EXTREMELY passive now, which is easily punishable. He is made of wet paper, so he dies very easily. but now he cant even say for people to back off of him. he doesnt have the damage (nerfed ultimate and useless W) and he doesnt have the CC. So why would anyone not just jump on you, since your only damage now is auto attacks.
One comment on something you said. "Yes he is weaker." Veigar had around a 48-49% winrate pre 5.4. making him weaker is not an okay thing. champions falling below 40% winrate (30% in diamond) is not something that will be sorted out with time. It means the character is bad and needs work.
I think that is enough for now. I don't like calling you out like that, but you clearly are a bystander, not an experienced player here. While i may not be great, you can listen to players like NyJacky and DaBox (challenger level veigars) that say there is no reason to pick veigar. Growing pains may be a part of some changes, but i can imagine you saying that to Azir players when he was 38% winrate. Yes this patch will help, but Veigar is far from viable still.
Lord Graves III2 votesEDIT: YOU SON OF A...... You haven't played veigar since last year you hunk of poo. Or did you play current veigar "on your alt"?
DOUBLE EDIT: Oh woops. My bad. I forgot I can only see ranked stats on match history. And yeah man, I can't blame you for not picking him in ranked.
I hate to tell you this, but you clearly did not play veigar.
Bite me. You are saying this purely to discredit me. You don't want discourse obviously. What do you want? to be right? I played him less after a while, but he was probably my first 400 games of league or so. Barring the few before I could buy him.
Zoning is harder against a veigar: Also just completely wrong. before you would have to worry about a stun followed up by lots of damage if you got too aggressive.
Not during the laning phase they didn't. Even assuming you leave W at level 1 till E is at 2 (the only way to fully ensure a meteor landing), veigar's damage just wasn't that scary that early. The dude really got kicked around like a chewtoy.
Veigar had around a 48-49% winrate pre 5.4. making him weaker is not an okay thing. Its really not the end of the world either. I stand by the statement that the direction in general is healthier than his previous kit.
It doesn't matter that these were supposed to be compensation for dfg removal: Veigar is a burst mage. While he did not NEED Dfg, he certainly used it well. You realize that, unless removing dfg was a straight buff for veigar, these changes were clearly in the wrong direction.
Zoning is harder against a veigar
I meant an old veigar as opposed to a new one. Cause old veigar didn't have shit on most lane opponents. "You wanna stun and burst me pre 6? Do it all you want. You ran out of mana and I'm still alive!"
but now he cant even say for people to back off of him.
What? How? He can happily hop through a cage wall and leave the enemy in there. He can drop meteors in their path if they try to move toward him. Veigar has positioning tools and responses. They just aren't reliable in an offensive capacity until mid and late game. Which is the point of the character.
It feels like you are twisting the words I typed. You don't actually quote me, you take me out of context. You don't seem to want an actual conversation. You want a stage to whine on. I spent the last few minutes typing this and just realized that.
While i may not be great, you can listen to players like NyJacky and DaBox (challenger level veigars) that say there is no reason to pick veigar.
Hows Nyjacky been? He was the last player I know of to ever play veigar professionally. He lost when he did it. To a Casseopiea I believe.
Also, what in god's name was the reason to pick him before? Until he outscales her Veigar is just a strictly worse version of Annie without her AOE or inherent durability. Outside of his 1 target full burst, veigar had little to offer a team outside of his cage. He also had the worst laning phase in league of legends. Veigar was weak. He has ALWAYS been weak. Always. He's never been old evelyn or urgot tier, but he's never been good.
He is worse at the moment. Yeah. He is. But I firmly believe his kit is now inherently healthier, and numbers and timers can be changed. Veigar can be stronger now, because his kit isn't any longer balanced around being able to make a target disappear without warning from a long distance away.
but Veigar is far from viable still.
The form he existed in wasn't really viable. They are taking the time to really fix him. Its just not done yet. And it does suck while waiting.
It means the character is bad and needs work.
He was bad. He is bad. He is now in a position to get work. Hell, he is getting work.
What if I said the next buff was 5 seconds off of E cooldown? Or plus 30 damage at all levels on W? The world can be a wonderful place when your kit isn't held back because it contains near instant low warning stuns.
he is EXTREMELY passive now, which is easily punishable.
How exactly? Playing from behind your minion lane and farming from as far as you can is actually the hardest thing in league to punish. And veigar gets more out of his farming dollar than anyone.
Orbv1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Graves III,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RrMkAERu,comment-id=00050000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-12T11:20:46.973+0000)
Bite me. You are saying this purely to discredit me. You don't want discourse obviously. What do you want? to be right? I played him less after a while, but he was probably my first 400 games of league or so. Barring the few before I could buy him.
Eh, I played Twitch for my first 250 games or so, but that was 4 years ago, I couldn't possibly comment on his gameplay now, which I'm not a fan of.
What? How? He can happily hop through a cage wall and leave the enemy in there. He can drop meteors in their path if they try to move toward him. Veigar has positioning tools and responses. They just aren't reliable in an offensive capacity until mid and late game. Which is the point of the character.
His meteors cost a lot of mana. You can't be expected to just drop them the moment anyone moves towards. The moment Veigar casts his cage, it's a really long time. He simply has positioning tools. It is fine if they wanted to steer towards keeping enemies away from you, but his Kit doesn't support that. There needs to be more change to his W. Right now, a person can literally dodge a Q and W while in the confinements of the cage. It is a very heartbreaking thing to watch, and I've only seen it in two games.
Hows Nyjacky been? He was the last player I know of to ever play veigar professionally. He lost when he did it. To a Casseopiea I believe.
Forget Nyjacky. Veigar's been used in Korean Solo Queue for close to 2 years. It's only recently been used in LPL, and then the change happened 2 weeks later. Have you ever watched Pawn use him mid? He was never as bad as say "Brand", who has never seen competitive play.
Also, what in god's name was the reason to pick him before? Until he outscales her Veigar is just a strictly worse version of Annie without her AOE or inherent durability. Outside of his 1 target full burst, veigar had little to offer a team outside of his cage. He also had the worst laning phase in league of legends. Veigar was weak. He has ALWAYS been weak. Always. He's never been old evelyn or urgot tier, but he's never been good.
He is worse at the moment. Yeah. He is. But I firmly believe his kit is now inherently healthier, and numbers and timers can be changed. Veigar can be stronger now, because his kit isn't any longer balanced around being able to make a target disappear without warning from a long distance away.
That was kind of his niche. That's how he was intended to be played. The MAJOR difference between him and Annie is that he didn't need flash to initiate a fight, his CC range is much better. Believe it or not, his stun was a HUGE factor to pick him. His laning wasn't actually horrible before. It's just horrible now. And unlike Annie, his combo was a guaranteed death to whoever he targeted. Annie must use all of her abilities for the kill. Late game, Veigar uses his R alone and can focus his other abilities on other champions.
The form he existed in wasn't really viable. They are taking the time to really fix him. Its just not done yet. And it does suck while waiting.
It was. It wasn't healthy.
He was bad. He is bad. He is now in a position to get work. Hell, he is getting work.
What if I said the next buff was 5 seconds off of E cooldown? Or plus 30 damage at all levels on W? The world can be a wonderful place when your kit isn't held back because it contains near instant low warning stuns.
It's not near instant, it's 1 second. And low warning? It's a ground insignia that lights up. A low warning stun is like Taric's Dazzle particle, or Annie's passive. Plus 30 dmg does nothing if he STILL cannot land it on anyone. And realistically Riot has never given AoE CC a reduction of cooldown of more than 1 second on a non-ultimate, they will never do it.
How exactly? Playing from behind your minion lane and farming from as far as you can is actually the hardest thing in league to punish. And veigar gets more out of his farming dollar than anyone.
He is EXTREMELY passive now. You insta-push your lane using Q because you're forced to hit two minions every time now. The last thing veigar wants is to be the pusher. Later in the game the push is good, but early on it's a detriment to him vs any popular mids now.
Blkninjar871 votesI hate how when people mention veigar nefs they make it seem as if veigar cant do anything at all. IMO new veigar is tons better than old veigar. His nerf to E is welcome when the buff to Q is so great. Also LOL @ the annie/Veigar comparison, they are not remotely similar or have similar kits! Veigar was changed from being a low ranged delete button to an actual High damage long ranged Mage/Magekiller which actually now makes more sense.
Honestly I hate how ppl just come on this forum to complain about what they cant seem toget, If you can't play viegar, and farm up AP while building AP, and doing immense damage with your ult alone u probably shouldnt be playing leagues.
PKnowledge1 votesVeigar was changed from being a low ranged delete button to an actual High damage long ranged Mage/Magekiller which actually now makes more sense.
Are you for real ? Long ranged ? Is that a short joke ? Ult range is Caitlyn AA range, you can't land your W any more unless Leona is in your team, Q is 850 (long range, really ?) and can be blocked by minions.
If you can't play viegar, and farm up AP while building AP, and doing immense damage with your ult alone u probably shouldnt be playing leagues.
Oh then teach me, master, how you build AP when you can't get a kill in lane (cause no reliable CC), you can't push to roam (cause no reliable escape), and can only farm under turret while your opponent is free to do as he wants ?
Doing "immense damage" with your ult has never been enough. Because you have 650 range on it, and it won't OS anyone without another spell, unless the APC is a retard building 700 AP with no MR/Zhonya.
Love how people knows better than you how to play veigar, when they obviously don't play him.
PKnowledge1 votesI stopped reading at "Beat me" + Q.Q you don't want to discuss Well at least I should have, since everything you said after that clearly shows that you did not try to play the new Veigar. How can you speak about something you don't know ?
You're telling us that the stun was not supposed to be a stun to begin with, just a zoning tool, and it's fine that way. Just HOW do you land that W ??
He can happily hop through a cage wall and leave the enemy in there. He can drop meteors in their path if they try to move toward him.
No, seriously, play him. Or against him. But stop blathering until you do. That kind of trick is useless unless you play against a brain-damaged player.
Veigar was viable, because he had a stun. Because people HAD to respect his CC, and THINK before going for the trade. But now they're like "Who need strategy ? Look at my skills and reflexes !"
What if I said the next buff was 5 seconds off of E cooldown? Or plus 30 damage at all levels on W? The world can be a wonderful place when your kit isn't held back because it contains near instant low warning stuns.
You obviously don't get it. Yeah, buff the W damages, you won't land it anyway if you don't make the stun more reliable.
Seriously, just read any of the Veigar posts, everything you're saying as been answered again and again. AND PLAY HIM.
LoLKiru1 votesI stopped reading at "Beat me" + Q.Q you don't want to discuss Well at least I should have, since everything you said after that clearly shows that you did not try to play the new Veigar. How can you speak about something you don't know ?
You're telling us that the stun was not supposed to be a stun to begin with, just a zoning tool, and it's fine that way. Just HOW do you land that W ??
No, seriously, play him. Or against him. But stop blathering until you do. That kind of trick is useless unless you play against a brain-damaged player.
Veigar was viable, because he had a stun. Because people HAD to respect his CC, and THINK before going for the trade. But now they're like "Who need strategy ? Look at my skills and reflexes !"
You obviously don't get it. Yeah, buff the W damages, you won't land it anyway if you don't make the stun more reliable.
Seriously, just read any of the Veigar posts, everything you're saying as been answered again and again. AND PLAY HIM.
Veigar's old stun was COMPLETELY broken, however the fact remains that he was also completely dependent on said stun in the same way that old Xerath was completely dependent on his, and Malzahar is dependent upon is ult.
Current stun now has a .50 second delay in total (.25 seconds longer than pre-5.4 veigar, and half a second shorter than 5.4 veigar). Meddler already said if he still underpreforms, they have other ways to buff him (notably making his W have less of a delay).
PKnowledge1 votesCurrent stun now has a .50 second delay in total (.25 seconds longer than pre-5.4 veigar, and half a second shorter than 5.4 veigar). Meddler already said if he still underpreforms, they have other ways to buff him (notably making his W have less of a delay).
Wrong again.
5.4 stun had 1s delay : 0.25s cast time followed by 0.75s delay, warning circle showing after the cast time.
5.5 stun has 0.75s delay : 0.25s cast time followed by 0.5 delay. BUT the warning circle show up at the beginning of the cast time, so it's still a 0.75s warning.
LoLKiru1 votesThats just it though, since the cast time doesn't delay the cage anymore (since the skill itself starts the MOMENT you press the button, effectively removing the cast time if you want to be technical about it), the notes also say the delay on the walls themselves is now .50 seconds.
Edit: Also worth noting that the PBE missile speed buff to Q is different from live (2200 on PBE VS 2000 on live)
Maybe im just crazy though and misinterpreting the notes.
Silents4291 votesIt bears mentioning that these changes were meant to be "compensation buffs" for the removal of DFG, widely considered Veigar's core item.
Actually it was originally, but they said his Kit was unhealthy and he would receive more drastic changes.
kcStranger1 votesI'm pretty sure they also reduced the "HEY VEIGAR IS ABOUT TO STUN YOU!" warning animation to 0.5 s? So the total time from button press to cage appearance is 0.5 s.
PKnowledge1 votesNope.
5.4 stun had 1s delay : 0.25s cast time followed by 0.75s delay, warning circle showing after the cast time.
5.5 stun has 0.75s delay : 0.25s cast time followed by 0.5 delay. BUT the warning circle show up at the beginning of the cast time, so it's still a 0.75s warning.
Total time form button press to cage appearance is 0.75s now.
MrBuffington1 votesThe dash stopping mechanic is coming in 5.6, it was held back this patch due to bugs
GnomeDigest14 votesConsidering how stupid Nid is again that nerf didnt solve anything. Considering how shit-tastic every patch since 4.20 has been its pretty easy to be the "best patch in a while". That aint saying much.
Dragonflight35 votesYa but at least they didn't go in the WRONG direction
TheI3igDaddy11 votes^ This essentially.
Malix Farwin17 votesYa but at least they didn't go in the WRONG direction
You know, its pretty sad when a patch headed in the right direction is the best patch in a while. Especially when you consider that they patch very often and the whole idea of a patch is to fix issues, not make them worse.
Tserris10 votesThey should have given more context to the nidalee change.
They removed the % damage done, the skill now deals easily 100 less damage in the jungle at early levels -significantly less damage as the game progresses. They dropped her clear speed -one of the reasons she has been such a high priority pick.
Before Nidalee jungle was even on the board, her kit wasn't considered overbearing -i'm not sure what else you were hoping for.
EnvyDragon5 votesHer spears and heals are still bullshit.
I hate her for that reason.
Like, I'm not saying she's overpowered, I just fucking hate dealing with her. A lot of people agree, I think. Any Nidalee nerf is a good one.
Tserris4 votesI remember the era where Nid had twice as wide the collision width on her spears, and they scaled twice as strong, and they did even more damage based on distance, and they did even more damage based on distance if you ran away from the point where you threw the spear...
So I have to admit that I find her current kit a bit tame in contrast xD
Terff9 voteslook at the new 5.6 stuff and shit your pants at how amazing the new skins and other sweet stuff
Adam D Smith 5 votesYou forgot to mention the DUCK!
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4447349
A Miss Fortune5 votes5.6 notes:
-Nidalee spear buffed
-Riven damage buff
-Lee Sin mobility buff
-Urgot nerf (his ult was removed because it seperates the good Urgots from the great Urgots.)
Thefriendlyorc1 votesWouldnt doubt it. But you forgot about a LB 'compensation' for her .01 AP ratio loss. 3 seconds off of her W cooldown.
A Miss Fortune1 votesLeblanc needs compensation for her losing a large amount of burst damage. So we have decided to give our assassin-grandma-burst-mage more mobility because she is very easily counterplayed.
W cooldown: 0 seconds (doesn't matter anyways you can't catch her, she's basically Nidalee with some real mana costs. Sort of.)
Thefriendlyorc1 votesMeanwhile veigar loses .2 off his ult. And they're talking about Viktor after 4 years of him sitting on the bench.
A Miss Fortune2 votesR.I.P Viktor 2015
you were a non-freelo burst damage mage and actually required skill to play, you will be remembered.
Thefriendlyorc1 votesSoon my only mid will be velkoz, who will promptly be nerfed because he's too overbearing on zed.
LoL Ergo Urgot4 votesDownvoting, furgot to mention Urgot buffs.
Chessburger3 votesI have a feeling sejuani will be the most contested pick. People have been playing it pretty much every game last week, even seen some bans towards her. Imagine what will happen after you get a mini sunfire as a first buy :)
Partholonian1 votesDon't you mean second buy, after the machete upgrade? I really don't think it's going to be a good idea to delay that for anything, even Bami's.
Chessburger1 votesYeah I meant as a first completed item not the intermediate items. :) Juggernaut was rather useless other than flat hp as a first item rush.
Jamatrix6663 votes
are getting buffed, a really good thing!
are getting nerfed, not so sure about Liss, but Nid's nerfs are welcome!
Thefriendlyorc2 votesSion changes are nerfs to his laning phase. They want you to focus on the impossible to hit q skill shot instead of the safe long ranged poke skill shot. I don't know if it will kill his lane phase, but it was all he had.
Blue Moon Wolf3 votesomg, riot actually nerfed AND buffed champs we wanted... http://bios.weddingbee.com/pics/89094/celebration.gif
Only Play Darius3 votesDoesn't fully fix the destruction caused by 5.4 though.
Blue Moon Wolf2 votescome on everyone, if we all believe hard enough, the nerf fairy will take her pent up aggression on 
and 
next patch :D
kcStranger1 votesI would like to point out that the win rates for both of those champions in ranked solo is ~47% (increasing to 49-50% in Diamond). Both are pretty popular (including at the pro level), and win rates aren't everything, but I'd like to suggest they may not be as OP as you think. Lee in particular should suffer from buffs to other junglers.
