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So Yorick is being put on the backburner...why?

TheI3igDaddy··26 votes·2,779 views

So I'm reading Surrender@20 and I see that the guy in charge of reworking Yorick has moved on to something else, and as such Yorick isn't currently being looked at. This is...disturbing.

He's the only champion to be removed, REMOVED, from the free week rotation. This implies to me that Riot doesn't want anyone to bother with him due to how troublesome of a champion he is. So if this is the case (and please, if not, can I have a Red explain why), how is he not the number one priority for a rework? Above Poppy, Ms. Gutted-If-Sees-LCS-Play. Above Urgot, the unloved monstrosity. And now Smash is working on Renekton changes, which I don't necessarily disagree with, but...I don't understand why he's an issue right now.

Yorick has a really cool concept behind him, seriously. I love the character, I love his voice, his apathy, and the fact that he beats people with a shovel. I think he's deserving of more right now. :(

Oh, and apparently this is the farthest iteration that his rework has gotten:http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Emptylord/Xelnath%27s_Yorick_discussion

43 Comments

SouL1ess5 votes

He's the only champion to be removed, REMOVED, from the free week rotation. This implies to me that Riot doesn't want anyone to bother with him due to how troublesome of a champion he is.

No, he isn't the only one. Karma was removed from the free week rotation one week after her release.

The implication is, really, how Riot deals with any champion they consider troublesome - prevent them from appearing too frequently, even though the issue still exists.

Dr Clueless PhD1 votes

Yeah, there have a number of Champs removed from the rotation over the years. I can't confirm Karma's removal timing (my memory isn't good enough for that), but it's certainly not unique to Yorick.

The thing is, though, I understand why they do that. Experienced players aren't terribly affected by the free week rotation, generally. Who is, though? New players. If you have a problematic character, it does make sense to limit how much new players would see them. At the very least, you're preventing at least some people from getting too attached to something that's going to be receiving big changes down the road whether they like it or not. Do remember, even Sion's rework had people crying to keep the old one around.

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

Well, if that's the case, I'm talking about currently being the only one off of the rotation. Obviously Karma's back on it because she got her rework. Yorick is now in Karma's spot but his rework isn't a high priority?

Hyrum Graff5 votes

My best guess is that the ratio of work to reward is too high.

If any champion is going to get a 'pet' system, it's going to be Yorick. However, as we all know, the technology that powers league's pet system is... outdated, at best. If they're going to rework Yorick, they're going to do it right, which means creating the technology to support a better pet system. That's a massive system-level endeavor, so even though there's a lot to be gained from a yorick rework, the amount of gain per work is not very high, so there are other projects that take priority. For example, Urgot and Poppy also have a lot of room for improvement, with much less work.

Kingsgrave2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQBpVKr8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2014-12-17T15:28:51.052+0000)

My best guess is that the ratio of work to reward is too high.

If any champion is going to get a 'pet' system, it's going to be Yorick. However, as we all know, the technology that powers league's pet system is... outdated, at best. If they're going to rework Yorick, they're going to do it right, which means creating the technology to support a better pet system. That's a massive system-level endeavor, so even though there's a lot to be gained from a yorick rework, the amount of gain per work is not very high, so there are other projects that take priority. For example, Urgot and Poppy also have a lot of room for improvement, with much less work.

At the very least they have to reprogram minion AI for him, which means he will take the longest to rework. They will also want to do indepth art for him, which would put him on Udyr level.

So don't expect him to be reworked for like 2 years.

Cale0174 votes

Because Yorick isn't a terribly popular champion that Riot can make tons of money from a rework and a new skin with.

TheI3igDaddy13 votes

The same could be said for Sion though, although I guess half of the rework was more of the 'Sion has a serious identity crisis' type.

Cale0178 votes

He REALLY did, though. At least Yorick, while a bit odd and outdated, has a niche role and fills it well. His builds are pretty consistent with his kit, and a good Yorick can still cause massive issues for an enemy team.

Sion on the other hand had scalings that made no sense, a kit that was as clunky as it was painfully old, and his build options left you either wasting his tank potential to deal damage or wasting his damage potential to be a tank... but neither of the options really did as well as they would have with other champions who would have to make the same choice. In addition he had a random AD steroid in his kit from out of nowhere mixed in with all his magic damage, so it added yet another finnicky build path: that of the AD bruiser.

So you had him as a kinda squishy but still not terribly effective AP damage dealer.

A solid tank who's skills were being wasted without building significant AP.

A bruiser who was getting no bonuses on most of his skills, and who wasn't building enough tank to make up for the lack of damage mitigation that not building AP caused.

Sion was a mixmatched hodgepodge of designs and mechanics that, four years ago, would have worked fine given the way League was back then. But in today's meta, it just didn't work.

At least if there's a Yorick top it's consistent. You know he's going to be an AP bruiser, you know that he's going to most likely win his lane, and you know that he's got an ult that can turn a teamfight. Yorick really is in a better place than where Sion was overall. It sucks that he's not getting his rework soon, but if it was a choice between Yorick or Sion I'd have picked Sion as well.

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

AP bruiser? Was that a typo, man? In like 95% of games I've seen, Yorick goes Muramana into Trinity Force / IBG; the latter of which is the only AP he ever builds. After that it's straight tank.

I understand the consistency thing though; even though I didn't really have an issue playing old Sion, I did know for a fact that his kit was this giant mess and I was simply trying to use it as best as I could. But with Yorick his kit does work well.

Cale0171 votes

Most of the Yoricks I've seen go IBG, Spooky Ghosts, and then tank after that. If they get fed I'll usually see them add on an Abyssal Scepter.

He wasn't hard to play, and you could still do well with him sure. But yeah, his kit was all over the place, and none of the places were quite right. Yorick, however outdated he might be becoming slowly, at least still has a certain focus to his kit. Sion was like something out of a road sign from Alice in Wonderland.

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

Huh. The only thing in his kit that scales off AP is his W explosive ghoul...thingy. I mean, I'm not saying you shouldn't buy AP on him, I just don't see why you would build it over AD. -shrug-

Cale0171 votes

His explosive ghoul can really hurt, and the slow that Spooky Ghosts gives from the active is pretty damn nifty, especially during teamfights.

Gingivits3 votes

{quoted}

Most of the Yoricks I've seen go IBG, Spooky Ghosts, and then tank after that. If they get fed I'll usually see them add on an Abyssal Scepter.

That is a weird and bad build for Yorick. You lose out on damage from ghouls, spamming your ghouls almost infinetly with a tear, and sustain in lane. Don't take notes on that build, its not very good.

Squarefighter1 votes

He meant Sion could build AP bruiser, not Yorick.

Saianna2 votes

Um, Reason why Sion was reworked was to: a) remove his good ap build (he meant to be AD) (For that same reason Yi was reworked) b) remove lock-on-target stun Q

That wasn't because of fanbase demanding rework, or something wrong with him.

Penguin Eclipse2 votes

{quoted}

Um, Reason why Sion was reworked was to: a) remove his good ap build (he meant to be AD) (For that same reason Yi was reworked) b) remove lock-on-target stun Q

That wasn't because of fanbase demanding rework, or something wrong with him.

It wasn't that simple or they would have just changed those to aspects of his kit. Sion had an identity crises to say the least.

Saianna1 votes

If you say so..

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

It was also for a shot at a visual update. He's supposed to be this rampaging, undead juggernaut. His old model looked horrendous compared to what they wanted him to look like. With the Rift update around the corner, they pretty much had to change him.

Tapu Fini1 votes

To expand on this identity crisis, he was stuck in some weird tango of Mage, Bruiser, and Carry, but never truly excelled with any of them. At least he has a clear role now.

chumbler1 votes

{quoted}

Because Yorick isn't a terribly popular champion that Riot can make tons of money from a rework and a new skin with.

Don't know why this is getting downvoted when it is literally the correct answer. There are some champions Riot flat out doesn't give a shit about, and anyone who believes otherwise has drunk way too much of the kool aid. The only resources they lack are care and effort.

Remember that most reworks have only led to a champion being even worse off than they were before the rework. They are never intended to produce a viable champion, but just to look like Riot is doing something without actually changing the Riot Favored Champions list in any way.

Cale0171 votes

Because the Yorick fanboys don't want anyone saying anything remotely negative about him.

RoyaiChaos1 votes

Reworks are free and I can't remember the last time a rework shipped with a new skin.

Cale0171 votes

Reworks are free, but that doesn't guarantee that the champion will sell better afterwards, especially without skins that have mass appeal. Yorick lacks that. Aside from Pentakill Yorick, the rest of his skins honestly just aren't worth the money. Right now, a Yorick rework would only really interest a very small subset of players who actively play him, and that isn't enough to warrant Riot caring.

Lajinn54 votes

Yorick Nobody remembers Yorick Mori

Cupkek3 votes

For me, Yorick is an absolute nightmare. Frankly, I don't think a rework is needed.

KillerPenguins3 votes

As someone who plays a fair amount of yorick: why does yorick need a rework???

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

His kit provokes you to spam ghouls because they give him more damage mitigation while they're alive. He's not a fun champion to go up against, usually (though I play Cho'Gath a lot and I don't care what he does in lane). They need to change him so that he's not faceroll.

KillerPenguins1 votes

I don't understand how the two are connected. Of course yorick is encouraged to combo his skills, most champions are. And yeah, he's difficult to counter in the current meta but anyone with early game burst or huge sustain will lane against him competently - the only reason he'd need a rework is because people refuse to counter-pick him. Or just don't know how. Neither of those are very good reasons, especially on such an unpopular champion to begin with.

Penguin Eclipse2 votes

I am guessing he hasn't been worked on because no one seems to be itching to do it and because he isn't deemed a problem, nothing has happened yet. And by problem I mean his LCS play is virtually non-existent. He has problems, but champion problems that don't threaten LCS seem to be put on the back burner indefinitely until they get around to it. Non-priority reworks like Yorick will be don't seem to have a need-based order.

RumblesMeatballs1 votes

well because they're gonna be changing his kit and probably the way he looks so they're probably gonna be Sion-ing him. only issue is they're trying to find a good kit that feels more interactive and not just i click on you with my abilities and you're suddenly rapidly dying (ironic since there's a 450 champs just like that but they're perfectly content with his kit)

they're gone through a bunch of different kits and i guess they didn't really pass the internal testing periods

Sachabot1 votes

Is that 450 comment about Ryze? Because I feel like it is, and they're doing some small stuff to change that. Like, he's getting skillshots and such to make him less irritating.

Meep Man1 votes

I don't mind this because Season 5 is on the rise, but once the Preseason is done, I really would want Yorick to be worked on. Anyone that has been labeled as terrible to play as and against since he is unkillable early game (but can't kill) and can't kill anyone due to how his damage works. Most of his damage relies on his carry getting fed. Yorick needs to be reworked because for the person playing against him he is incredibly annoying due to his insane lane sustain and the person playing as him can't get any kills or contribute too much in a team fight.

Budupops1 votes

Its because riot hates ugly champions

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

Riot doesn't hate them, the playerbase apparently does. That's the main reason why they changed Trundle, in my opinion. He was perfectly fine as a champion, but the whole 'decaying flesh troll' thing was making too many people gag.

Sightless661 votes

This implies to me that Riot doesn't want anyone to bother with him due to how troublesome of a champion he is.

What it implies to me is that his problems are slightly different than Urgot's or Poppy's. In particular, he has the problem of making laning extremely unfun for whoever he goes up against whenever he pulls even a slight advantage, without much that can be done against him. Urgot has general weakness, and is probably the least functional champion in the game. Poppy has a lot of late-game power, but she doesn't push people around in lane. So, his being removed from the champion rotation isn't an indication that he's the biggest problem. It's more a marker of what his problems are. He's annoying and unfun to play in a way Poppy and Urgot aren't.

The answer for why Yorick isn't going to see work soon is that it is going to be a major rework, on the scale of Sion or Poppy, and there are only so many resources. They could devote resources to fixing him immediately. It would be a justifiable decision. However, Sion and Poppy were also justifiable decisions, and a decision had to be made. They were all in a terrible place, and they all needed significant changes. There isn't really any reason why Yorick couldn't have gotten an earlier rework. The most likely answer I can give you is that someone got good ideas for the other reworks sooner, leading that to be where resources were devoted.

The reason Renekton is seeing work while Poppy and Urgot and Yorick are bad is because it's much easier and quicker. It takes much less effort. No majorly changed abilities, no major testing to ensure that new or changed abilities don't produce unforeseen unhealthy gameplay, no new art resources to accommodate changed abilities, no new scripts written for interactions, etc. It's just so much quicker. Small and easy changes are good to have even while large problems exist. (As for why Renekton could use the changes, it gives him some more unique gameplay to make his fury and empowered ability gameplay more interesting, and he could use a bit of power without just getting stronger in general).

Xonra1 votes

This is stupid seeing as Yorick was being talked about and had some discussions with the community...

  1. When there was still a GD
  2. Before Cass
  3. Before Olaf
  4. Before Heimer (yes even heimer)
  5. Before anyone knew who Faker was

...and yet he is being moved to the back burner

Tapu Fini1 votes

Heimer was in line for a rework before yorick was even a concept.

Xonra1 votes

{quoted}

Heimer was in line for a rework before yorick was even a concept.

Seeing as Yorick came out in 2011 this isn't even pretending to be true. I was playing when (and before) Yorick was a new champ, so you are exaggerating (and apparently misinformed) quite a bit.

Tapu Fini1 votes

Considering heimer came out in 2009, and had been in a pretty difficult to balance state from the time they released him, wavering between godlike and trash tier, I beg to differ.

For a long time, he had a very strong concept, with horrible execution, partly just because Riot's tech wasn't as good at the time.

Direwolfiez1 votes

By the way, the link you provided doesn't work, it just results in an error page. Fiddled around with the address, and if you take out the bracket and parenthesis it automatically redirects to the correct page.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Emptylord/Xelnath%27s_Yorick_discussion

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

Thanks, I edited the OP.

Direwolfiez1 votes

No problem! :) Happy to help.

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

bumping for justice

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