Right now, Tough Skin ignores 1 / 2 damage from monsters based on how many points. Bladed Armor makes them bleed for 1% of current health.
Would it be the end of the world if we were to give Tough Skin an extra point, and maybe the same for Bladed Armor?
2pudge1cup4 votesOnly jungler that seems to not care about this new jungle is nunu. Every other seems to be struggling massively.
I'm not sure if there's some disconnect between riot's goals with the jungle and expectation of players. My understanding is that riot doesn't want early ganks anymore (or wants them to be very high risk). I could be wrong, but that's my impression from what little I've read.
youngjake933 votesOnly jungler that seems to not care about this new jungle is nunu. Every other seems to be struggling massively.
I'm not sure if there's some disconnect between riot's goals with the jungle and expectation of players. My understanding is that riot doesn't want early ganks anymore (or wants them to be very high risk). I could be wrong, but that's my impression from what little I've read.
Warwick, Udyr, Yi, Nunu, Fiddlesticks and Pantheon not only don't struggle, but arguably do better now than the old jungle.
I've seen lots of Shaco doing very well, but I haven't played him to know.
iamthegoatofwar1 votesAt 1st I thought warwick was going to do bad but yha he's doing better than most atm. you REALLY gotta watch your hp near the raptor's camp tho they will chunk you fast.
BOOYASACKA1 votesyup, nunu has consume which with smite can kill any neutral monster with ease, while no other jungler can do this. I think riot should make the jungle a bit less harsh
Orangesilk3 votesBasically, they want the jungle to be difficult for SOME champions, if the jungle is still impossible for the slow tanky champions they wanted to help, they will give THEM, small buffs, instead of giving everyone a global buff like this. The point is for the jungle to be next to impossible for Lee, Kha'Zix and so on.
KenpachiKenshin1 votesKha' Zix is having problems in lane, and now he's too hard to jungle with (increase W cooldown -> lower his sustain -.- ). Soooooooooooooo....
Ad Astra per Asp3 votes"You made the jungle harder so one role doesn't dictate so much of the game, so lets make it easier so one role can again dictate so much of the game." How about we let the jungle remain harder. Besides, with rangers trailblazer and smiting the krugs literally anyone can jungle and you can afford it after only clearing 2 camps and backing. Seriously after your first back the jungle is amazingly easy and having to back isn't the end of the freaking world people. Jungle ganks with red have much smaller windows and are weaker, both reasons to celebrate because junglers WERE oppressive roles. Now farm and tank junglers can compete, especially with all the vision control options at your disposal. The old jungle items favored damage dealers so much it's not even funny "give more health and mana back the more damage you do and the more damage you do the more gold you get b/c clear times and the better ganks you have because damage." Ya no that was stupid.
Additionally if you take rangers and have the decreased time for summoner spells, your smite is on a faster cooldown than the old one, heals you and gives mana, does AoE damage and stuns the creeps. We don't need better jungle than that. Just buy Ranger's it's the best of the new items anyway. Pro's already say sabre is a niche buy against stealth champs/teams and the other two are way underpowered in comparison. Poacher's isn't good because of the huge respawn timers for camps, and two champions clearing the same jungle you almost never get full use of it, and chilling smite.. most champs will never be able to afford it as they need rangers to clear, and even champs who can afford it a 2s slow isn't worth what you'd lose. Using smite on a champ when it doesn't have the increased cooldowns is... debilitating to say the least. Smiting raptors every time they are up and controlling game vision and smiting enemy wolf camp to counter jungle is a huge advantage and your ganks just won't keep up except rare cases. Hecarim is about the only jungler I've been able to justify it on so far.
Jokersfist1 votesFarm and tank junglers can keep up and farm now? by what logic? the increased base healths of every single camp in the game? the ONLY time tank junglers have EVER been in the meta, was when wraiths and wolves were incredibly low hp camps in comparison. Pretty much what i've learned from the preseason is that not only are junglers have to relearn their role. for the 3rd season in a row, but that they got shot in the foot this time. There's less gold income due to the lack of conservation stacks. (yes, base values for some camps were increased) or the lack of a wriggles lantern that gives extra gold on kill. this leads to less items/money for wards, if we're going back to the idea of tank junglers, i want my heart of gold back. thanks
Ad Astra per Asp1 votesHave you even tried smiting Krug, clearing 3 camps, then backing for rangers? There's literally not a champion in the game that can't do that. And once you back for rangers, the game is freaking easy mode, just smite krug and red you will practically be full all the time. And if you want faster clear speeds but not as much hp? Smite the toad. Don't ever smite blue even if it's leashed, finish it smiteless. If you don't smite krug to start and keep smiting crug till you get some items ya it's a hard jungle for some champions. But those camps are there and rangers is there if you want to be able to clear. Rangers is really good, it allows more objective control, can push lanes, and you can even kill zak's blob's with it lol.
Lee sin and Kha'zix had sustain and damge and that's why they were so good before. Now that extra damage doesn't mean nearly as much and that extra sustain doesn't either because the camps are bigger and you have to use rangers on them too or your clears suck and your ability to gank thus also sucks. People tend to think chilling smite is game changing but it's not, rangers is by far the most logical choice on 90% of champions out there. I expect riot will nerf rangers and buff others, but that won't fix the problem. The problem is without rangers alot of people can't even jungle so they'd need to add some better way of sustain on those other items to see them used on anyone but a few champs.
But if your argument is you don't have the sustain get rangers it provides sustain and makes camps super easy and allows you to get more smite buffs... like krugs, which is very good you take so little damage with it now. And your clear speed with a rangers will be pretty good especially of lee sin and kha'zix dont' take rangers. Globally there is less gold now because of the dragon changes. That means ADC will hit their power spike after 30mins instead of at 20 mins. You should be more tanky in effect due to that. Armor pen is a very expensive buy for adc now till pretty late game. Also, if you smite the raptors, you will have an extra 30g income for every ward you find and I find tons. The jungle role is less strong now, but the playing field is more leveled than it was. That doesn't mean tank junglers are the best now, they aren't. But they aren't as far behind as they were last season by a long shot.
Oleandervine2 votesWhat I don't like is how junglers like Eve, who's primary and only role IS to jungle are irreversibly screwed by the new jungle. What good is her kit in a lane? The stealth is absolutely pointless if she's forced to be constantly engaging minions and turrets; on top of that, she crumples like a wet napkin to nearly all of the new jungle, essentially deleting her from the game. Sure, this jungle forces certain powerhouses to take it carefully, but I feel like these changes were issued too hard and too fast for junglers to adapt to the new changes and properly have their kits/stats altered to allow for them to ease into it. Riot should have implemented these changes little bits at a time to gauge how the jungle champions could be adapted to them.
TheI3igDaddy1 votesThat's not really an issue of the jungle as it is that Eve has been nerfed over and over while the jungle was weaker in season 4. Her passive implies to me that Riot wants her to jungle, so if she can't even clear safely, she needs to get buffs (as much as I hate to say that).
EvilRabbitt1 votesMaybe, with the focus being solely for jungling, change the passive some.
Current Passive: When out of combat for 6 seconds, Evelynn enters stealth, only being able to be seen by enemy champions within 700 range or true sight. While stealthed, Evelynn regenerates 1% of her maximum mana every second and ignores unit collision.
Updated Option: When out of combat for 5 seconds, Evelynn enters Stealth. While stealthed, Evelynn regenerates 1% of her maximum mana every second and ignores unit collision. Attacking neutral monsters, excluding dragon and baron, will not reveal her and attacking neutral monsters lose 1/2/3(based on ult rank)% maximum hp every second. Evelynn can be seen by enemy champions or true sight within 650 range.
? I don't use her much, but I want to. Would this solve any problems?
RevyUp5 votesMaybe, with the focus being solely for jungling, change the passive some.
Current Passive: When out of combat for 6 seconds, Evelynn enters stealth, only being able to be seen by enemy champions within 700 range or true sight. While stealthed, Evelynn regenerates 1% of her maximum mana every second and ignores unit collision.
Updated Option: When out of combat for 5 seconds, Evelynn enters Stealth. While stealthed, Evelynn regenerates 1% of her maximum mana every second and ignores unit collision. Attacking neutral monsters, excluding dragon and baron, will not reveal her and attacking neutral monsters lose 1/2/3(based on ult rank)% maximum hp every second. Evelynn can be seen by enemy champions or true sight within 650 range.
? I don't use her much, but I want to. Would this solve any problems?
No because even if you wanted to ward her jungle to counterjungle or invade she would then be perma-stealthed
AbodyHUN6661 votesShe is going to get a gameplay update along with a model and texture update, I guess they will make her a kit that can be strong and still stay healthy.
TheI3igDaddy1 votesbump :(
DropFill1 votesRiot thinks that the jungle items + the camp smite buffs made junglers " so strong " that making the jungle nearly impossible to clear 50% + health is the way to balance it
Ulric Greatsword2 votesTry a different Champion or strategy. Riot stated that they wanted damage-based junglers to be unable to sustain in the new jungle, and the increased camp respawn times don't punish you for backing to upgrade your machete early on.
EvilRabbitt3 votesThat and now machete upgrade is 375 instead of 475. Means those 2 camps you barely survive are enough to get item 1 and then a pot or 2. From there, should be smooth sailing. I'm back to jungle jinx. Figured out how to keep a golem running in circles (hint: you must get hit).
Ulric Greatsword1 votesI was super thrilled to find how much better Fiddle is after the changes. I'm thinking of maining jungle this season.
tempname415674891 votes
seems to not mind the current jungle.
EvilRabbitt1 votesReally? She is still safe there? =D
Martyrofsand1 votes
Neither does
SlackerboyTC1 votesI like the new jungle but it makes the raptor camps do so much damage now its hard to start an early gank without backingfirst
Orangesilk1 votesIt depends on the champion, right now high sustain champs have the easiest time clearing camps, if ganking wasn't a necessary thing, Cho'Gath jungle clearing camps effortlessly, securing objectives even harder than Nunu and farming to a ridiculous size would be THE BEST possible jungler, too bad you will get reported for daring to farm instead of ganking everywhere because that's the meta we got used to over the last seasons thanks to Lee
SleepyLionCub1 votesThey are buffing the champs that cant really handle the jungle too much anymore. Giving Sej %hp damage, and such.
Jungle Lux God1 votesSince the season 5 jungle is harder than it was in season 4 I think this is a pretty reasonable change, although keep in mind that the new jungle is supposed to be difficult for a large number of junglers, and if it isn't difficult it should still come with some sort of risk.
Solidair31 votesI kind of agree, but then on the other hand, it's supposed to beat us up for a reason. I really would rather not deal with Lee sin always running out of the jungle at full health constantly trying to kill me.
DaCush1 votesThey probably buffed the monsters with the current masteries in mind?
RpgDusky1 votesThe only camp I have trouble at is the wraiths, so much damage in first pass. Go gromp first hit level 2 instantly. Best place to start your jungle path.
CleverCactus1 votesHas anyone tried Naut jungle? Either it's just me or it is completely broken and just doesn't work. He can barely clear camps.
TheI3igDaddy2 votesIt's similar to what I commented to earlier in this thread about Eve. Naut had a hard time already in Season 4, and now (even though I haven't played him) it seems even worse. He needs some early buffs to compensate for the increase in jungle power.
I'm not saying EVERYONE deserves this, but if Riot believes Naut is a jungler primarily, the buffs should be given.
Chessburger2 votesOk I've seen this misconception way too many times on either stonewall's videos and all over the forums and I had to comment. Change your pathing, Nautilus had the easiest time early game out of any tanky ap champion I've tried (other than the holy trinity of WW Nunu Fiddle). Press W at 1:47 so you have the most uptime and start on kruggs/toad smite immediatly. I was able to stay above 80% on all of the camps with naut even the chickens of death in a custom game without a leash.
Superior pathing from s1 is back in business boys (with a slight twist with the new smite rewards).
Oh and whatever you do, do not smite blue unless there's an immediate threat and you have to secure it.
runes: atk speed red, ap quint, armor yellow, cdr per lvl blue masteries: 21 9 0 make sure you get the bladed armor, 3% health isn't worth it
You can play around with the masteries and whatnot but this seemed to be a good trade-off of faster clear/more damage on ganks and mid/lategame CDR with the scaling blues. You don't really need to be that tanky in masteries/runes if you can survive the jungle well enough without it because the juggernaut gives so much hp compared to old golem item's measly 200
Path: you can do anything... Easiest is Kruggs (smite) - chickens - Wolves - Toad (smite); back. (always over 80% on naut with this if you properly time your W)
If you need to secure buffs vs a counter jungler early: Kruggs/toad (get a leash) with smite; if you're on blue do it smiteless if red smite it for health; then do the small camp left in that side of the jungle, 1 small camp in the other side; do the buff; gank/do the last small camp or whatever you want. *note that this path is slower xp and money compared to doing small camps and upgrading machette.
I've jungled nautilus in s4 and this season the new jungle is an amazing improvement for him
Cheers
CleverCactus1 votesThanks for the advice!
Muted Summoner1 votesSkarner is good now somewhat.
but he requires good bans though. like morg and janna.
Jazzyforcefield1 votesI thought they said that they wanted more diverse gameplay. By making the jungle harder, that restricts the champions able to jungle.