"Mundo has historically been really strong against burst mages..."

PhDs Nuts·Jul 26, 2017·73 votes·4,464 views

"... healing to full HP after eating their entire combo. He's been somewhat weaker to DPS mages, so we thought...

http://i.imgur.com/PiIgqRj.png

...fuck those guys, too."

86 Comments

LuggJul 26, 201744 votes

I guess they wanted a hard counter to AP tops since he gets shit on by anyone who builds item 3165

TwitchInMyPantsJul 26, 20177 votes

Well the most common AP tops I can think of include Teemo, Swain, Vlad, Rumble, Kennen, Fizz, sometimes Ryze. Swain/Teemo are the most likely to build it and while Swain is mana dependant I've seen success starting RoA or HextechGun. Ryze is more tear based, Fizz often builds tank and has grevious wounds already, the rest wouldn't have impact on Mundo. I really don't see a trend of AP tops building Morello, that'd be more of a midgame/teamfight problem if anything?

LuggJul 29, 20171 votes

It's standard practice for AP champs to build Morello vs Mundo. You lose to him if you don't.

Sire HippingtonJul 26, 20174 votes

Galio ....

Chembaron YamadaJul 26, 201724 votes

Phrasing it differently: Riot is trying to give each champion a unique niche for his subclass. So, just because we already have a roaming assassin Talon doesn't mean we can not have a roaming marksman Quinn . Because they are not competing for the same niche.

Same applies here. While Galio and Dr. Mundo are both top laners made to counter magic damage, they have different subclasses. Galio is a mix between warden and battlemage, Dr. Mundo is a juggernaut. Just because we have the anti-magic-niche already for a tank Galio doesn't rule out that the anti-magic-niche can be given to a juggernaut DrMundo as well.

Valor BotJul 26, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Phrasing it differently: Riot is trying to give each champion a unique niche for his subclass. So, just because we already have a roaming assassin doesn't mean we can not have a roaming marksman . Because they are not competing for the same niche.

This is correct, except the Quinn/Talon comparison might be a bit obsolete, considering Quinn is no longer classified as a Marksman (she'd be considered the 'roaming specialist' now I suppose).

deadlychuckJul 26, 201710 votes

I think he's a little more concerned with his AD lane opponent spending 800g on item 3123 first item and pretty much leaving him neutered for the rest of the game.

zxinferxzJul 26, 201710 votes

If you give mundo a 30% magic resistance buff, then that means he can forego resistances and build a bunch of armor to better handle the broken draktharr builders and the absurd ADC damage output

Starcraft243verJul 26, 20176 votes

Well if you got a 30% mr buff but you dont build mr, it's kinda wasted no ? :)

zxinferxzJul 26, 20171 votes

Rush item 3194 or item 3065 depending on the matchup, and don't get a single mr item again in the entire game. Even better: Rush item 3190 and don't grab a single mr item again in the entire game either

TrestaniJul 26, 20175 votes

you will never not get item 3065 the healing bonus is too good on mundo

zxinferxzJul 26, 20171 votes

So you're giving up on solari, or having way too low armor if you grab both, then?

Meep ManJul 26, 20173 votes

At the same time, if you don't build Spirit Visage, you are basically nerfing Mundo since he is basically balanced with the idea he will always build this item. Example build: item 3047 item 3065 item 3193 item 3190 item 3083 item 3075 This is essentially the build I try to get whenever I play Mundo currently. Tons of Armor and Magic Resist plus a decent amount of health allowing me to benefit from my R a ton. Thornmail so the enemy ADC can't sponge off of me and also has their attack speed slowed when doing so, making me more durable against them as well. Solari for extra self-protection and team utility, plus Gargoyle's to make my R essentially heal me to full while also boosting my Solari. Warmog's for the sheer health advantage and the passive helps a bit when against poke heavy compositions. Finally, Spirit Visage because it's broken on him.

TL;DR Mundo gets a lot of standard MR normally, so it won't be wasted.

zxinferxzJul 26, 20171 votes

Congratulations, enemy team runs away from you, or kites you until your R ends, and now you're completely useless because you built solely to make your R stronger, best part is by far that you actually believe that amount of armor is a "ton". You could have 200 extra armor and you'd still melt like butter on a frying pan given you got focused. If the enemy team has only a single magic damage dealer, you are wasting a load of gold on stats that you can't even use properly in that match. Enemy lineup consists of mid ahri, a top yasuo/jayce/irelia. If you replace the visage or the warmog with a DMP, at least you can chase up the enemy's squishiest champ, and proceed to walk them to death, or at the very least, try to, so that the enemy team is forced to waste CC on you, or with a KV, so that you can use it on your ADC, and funnily enough, a KV on an ADC going ham will make you far tankier than either warmog or visage; at the very least, warmog fulfills the purpose of initiate, get poked, escape, heal up, initiate again, but visage's only purpose is being used during your ult, and your ult will either be useless because you got burst instantly even through it, or most of the healing is wasted anyway because the enemy team stopped focusing you, and around half of the time spent in current teamfights (current teamfights do last quite a long time) is without your ult, which makes SV even more subpar

SV is only useful when the enemy team has more than one magic damage dealer, and if their sole magic damage dealer happens to be Corki, then this little beaut: item 3194 , will make you think Corki's tickling you, because it turns him into a joke

FlameanatorXJul 27, 20171 votes

Downvoted for still not understanding that you always build Spirit Visage on Mundo, possibly unless they have literally 0 AP damage. You could have suggested replacing the Locket, trading some team utility for better self-tankiness and diving potential, or the Gargoyle Stoneplate since Mundo is about sustained DPS, not CC or burst windows, etc.

Mundo's ult has a relatively low cd, and he also gains quite a bit of HP from his passive, not to mention that the item itself gives decent base regen, which works off of Mundo's above average hp regen per level stat. Plus your cleavers partial-full cost refund counts as regen, so even that is increased. Not to mention relatively small things like the fact that the best masteries for Mundo include the lifesteal+spellvamp mastery from the ferocity tree.

zxinferxzJul 27, 20171 votes

You're giving up on a more important armor item by grabbing an SV in the current meta, downvoting me won't fix that fact pal

TzQGRUST39Jul 27, 20171 votes

That armor Items isn't more important than SV on Mundo... The comp could be Trynd/Jarv/Yas/Draven/"Support" and you would still build a visage eventually. No 5th armor item is going to be better than adding an extra 20% max hp healing to your ultimate.

zxinferxzJul 27, 20172 votes

It depends on the context of the match. If the entire enemy team is full AD and there's zero magic damage, then building both solari and stoneplate is quite a huge waste of stats as well, so you would build depending on who is putting out most of the damage, and whether or not you're snowballing, or splitpushing, or teamfighting. SV isn't a bad item, it just tends to not be the go-to choice in every game. I'm not arguing for SV not being bought at all, I'm arguing that you can't just buy SV 100% of your games and say "there's no better way to go"

FlameanatorXJul 27, 20171 votes

I more or less agree with you... However, if you're saying that any magic resist item is better on Dr. Mundo specifically, and you're not saying it because the enemy team is drowning in Grevious Wounds passives, then you're simply wrong.

Big LincolnJul 26, 20178 votes

Anyone who shits on mages is a perfect design in my book

Morgy MorgyJul 26, 201735 votes

so pretty much everyone rn right?

An Undead bratJul 26, 20174 votes

Thank you.

Handin Out NapsJul 26, 20175 votes

Oh are we saying mages are weak now? I'm sorry I'm out of the loop on all the dumb shit people say on the boards.

Morgy MorgyJul 27, 20172 votes

why would you play a mage over an assassin, or even an adc

Handin Out NapsJul 27, 20173 votes

For better teamfighting, waveclear, cc, and because they are overall just safer picks?? What kind of question is that LOL, do you honestly think mages are weak right now? http://imgur.com/5CSuu2M

oh and in case your argument is "oh but their play rates are so low", then here are the highest pick rates, by that logic these mages only have low win rates because of their high pick rates. http://imgur.com/a/Z2rYe

sutora3Jul 26, 20171 votes

what about other mages?

Big LincolnJul 27, 20172 votes

oh shit.....

LankPantsJul 26, 20178 votes

I guess this means Mundo becomes immune to magic with just an SV so he stacks up a ton of Armour.

No matter how much Riot tries to make MR tanks a thing they never will be, you don't need tons of MR so every time they do something like this the tank (or Juggernaut, in this case) will just build less MR because they can get away with it and need armour more.

TwitchInMyPantsJul 26, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I guess this means Mundo becomes immune to magic with just an SV so he stacks up a ton of Armour.

No matter how much Riot tries to make MR tanks a thing they never will be, you don't need tons of MR so every time they do something like this the tank (or Juggernaut, in this case) will just build less MR because they can get away with it and need armour more.

Even when ADs are weaker armor is still good since ADC is always a slot of the team and armor reduces tower damage, which means easier sieges and dives. So yeah even an MR stacking tank that benefits in other stats from MR is going to want armor regardless.

ThilmerJul 26, 20178 votes

This is a buff, but is a completely stupid and meaningless buff since Mundo's worst nigthmare is an AD champion with item 3123 and Riot is giving him more magic resistance instead of armour or something like that.

You know, Mundo could use that 12% damage reduction that ADCs are getting everywhere rigth now: item 3812 item 3046 item 3109

Pale PirateJul 26, 20174 votes

I mean, we all know riot looks to highlight strengths and weaknesses, so giving him an anti-ad path would be contrary to their goals.

Glory ln DeathJul 26, 20173 votes

So players need to think about their match-up and choose carefully before locking in Mundo?!? Preposterous! I should be able to play any champion into any other champion or comp with no consequences! No champion should any sort of strengths or weaknesses that make them a better or worse pick in certain situations!

SnaketitsJul 26, 20175 votes

Now slap an Adaptive Helmet on that and he gets 50% damage reduction against Cassiopeia. Jesus Christ, that's cancerous. Where's the counterplay to that?

Starcraft243verJul 26, 20172 votes

Deal 2 times more damages ! That's the counterplay

RalanrJul 26, 201717 votes

Ask your adc to build mortal reminder.

Chromatic EagleJul 26, 201736 votes

Asking ADC to build utility? Where do you think we are?

EschetonJul 26, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqZ16izw,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2017-07-26T13:25:22.512+0000)

Asking ADC to build utility? Where do you think we are?

Ashe Sivir

You are right, utility has never been a thing ADC had. And Lcs never picked certain ADC to make an unstoppable Olaf or to engage for the team. Buying items to add utility is obviously just as impossible.

Chromatic EagleJul 26, 201712 votes

I think you're missing the joke.

ZarvanisJul 27, 20176 votes

https://gifyu.com/images/giphy8f734.gif?noredirect

EschetonJul 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

https://gifyu.com/images/giphy8f734.gif?noredirect

I play support. I know the odds of that not being a joke.

zxinferxzJul 26, 20179 votes

You've clearly never played Mundo when not snowballing out of control. You have to build both armor and resistance, and whichever you have less of, you get destroyed with. All the tank items have very low cost efficiency so if you're being forced to build 2 magic resistance items just to survive the enemy mid snowballing and 100-0'ing you within less than 2-3 seconds (through your ult, after you already healed its cost), but then you get instantly burst down by an ADC running his normal item build plus a 800g item designed to shit all over you parade, means you're completely worthless as a pick, because Mundo's sole role is soaking damage, and if he can't reliably do that, then he might as well go afk or splitpush while going 0/20/0, because that's all he will be able to do

If the enemy mid doesn't snowball, but the enemy jungle is playing an snowballing Elise or Evelynn or any other jungler with good magic damage, and you ignore them but instead build towards countering the 4 phys damage champs in the enemy team, then you will die instantly to these magic damage dealers until you grab 2 mr items, again. Best part out of this, is that even if you built to counter the other 4 phys damage dealers, they can still stomp you unless you have exactly the same amount of gold as them, or more than they do, even though you decided to allow their sole magic damage dealer to instantly 100-0 you if they manage to find you, you're still not even that good against the other 4 enemy champs, which is quite sad for a champ whose, again, sole purpose, the sole reason this champion even exists, is to soak damage up

When any other juggernaut is set behind, they can still burst people or bring some CC or some utility to the fights. When a tank is set behind, they can still bring a lot of CC. If Mundo builds outside of having 3.5k+ hp, then he's gimping his own ult too, so he's forced to build hp, unlike good old cho'ggy who can just stack for that hp he needs

WoonStruckJul 26, 20179 votes

Considering Cassiopeia is cancerous herself, I'd say its fair.

Champion SkinJul 26, 20176 votes

That's not how that works... It would be at best MR X 1.3 (30% increase in MR).... not 30% damage reduction Damage reduction (from MR) X 0.8 (20% reduction) from adaptive helm

If you could somehow stack adaptive helm then 3 adaptive helms would give.... 48.8% reduced damage NOT 60%

this is because damage reductions are multiplicative 0.8 X 0.8 X 0.8 = 0.512 ---> 51.2% damage TAKEN 1 - 0.512 = 48.8% damage REDUCTION

This is makes it so that no matter how much damage reduction you stack you won't get 100% damage reduction (no matter what or how many times you multiply things together as long as one of them isn't 0 which is 100% damage reduction the result won't be 0 but it can get really close)

Sire HippingtonJul 26, 20172 votes

And yet he probably won't be any more usefull, cause what still kills mundo and always killed him are these fuckers Ashe Caitlyn Draven Ezreal together with item 3123 and item 3165 .

LauchmelderJul 26, 20174 votes

When are people finally going to get that Morellonomicon is absolute garbage when it comes to sustain champions?

Your ADC dies just before the enemy Mundo hits 35% remaining HP. You just lost the teamfight because you have absolutely 0 chance to apply GW. A bruiser doesn't deal enough damage, a mage will not deal enough damage, a support will not (yes it's a joke) deal enough damage.

Seriously Riot, remove GW from Morellos and give us an alternative item instead, maybe then people will understand that nobody buys Morellos for the GW passive.

Sire HippingtonJul 26, 20178 votes

Sure nobodie buys it for the GW, which is one of the big issues! No one gives up a fuck for haveing it! And if your adc dies befor mundo drops to 35%, there are only 3 explanations: Mundo was hela fed, your ADC was heavily out of position, or your team is a bounch of idiots that think peeling and supporting the adc is for noobs. Mudo's kit is designed around beeing at low hp, he gets a huge boost to his E damage from beeing low, and his Ult costs alot current health, so eitehr he waits with the ult till low to minimize it's cost, or he drops below 80% just from useing it. And it's not only mundo, nearly all champs that are designed around strong sustain from theri kit profit from low hp, which means morellos kicks in when they are the most powerfull and need rely on their sustain the most.

LauchmelderJul 26, 20174 votes

Mate, if GW would be on a seperate item for mages I'd buy it.

But the effect is literally NON existant on Morellos.

Glory ln DeathJul 26, 20173 votes

I think the issue with giving mages GW without the health threshold is that it's so easy for most mages to apply frequent AOE magic damage from a decent distance. AD champs can have Executioner's Calling, with no threshold, because they normally can't do that.

If mages had a similar item, they could easily keep the entire enemy team with GW nearly permanently.

LauchmelderJul 26, 20173 votes

Well I would see that, but the problem is this little item doing the exact same thing for ADCs: item 3085