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All in all I really like the Ryze Rework, but...

SaltyToplaneGoat··91 votes·4,509 views

Mana is still relevant, his cc reliable and his poke has counterplay now (dodgeable Q).

But there's just one thing. ONE. That irritates me to no end. Why did you keep that ultimate? It was the most boring and unflashy part of the kit before and now it still is. You want AoE damage? Then why not some awesome skill? It's called "Desperate Power". How is walking a little faster and getting some spellvamp (a really bad mechanic in my eyes) in any way desperate?

You know what would be "desperate"? Consuming (almost) all your mana to blast your foes into oblivion. Or any other possibility that would go along with his kit. "Desperate Power" should be a skill that comes in when the normal spell pattern is no longer enough. Your "last resort" so to speak - and not your "muh let's activate my spell steroid for some little bonus"-skill...

Keeping the skill as it is seems like the biggest waste of potential I have ever seen.

83 Comments

qetzel35 votes

I actually quite like the ultimate combined with the new passive. It looks like it will give great moments of "FUCK OFF! I HAVE POWER NOW! I AM LORD OF ALL THAT I SEE! YOU MISERABLE WORMS SHALL BOW BEFORE ME".

Thinking about it, Ryze needs some form of movement speed steroid. His only engage is running at you, so he needs the movement speed. The rest of his kit is also fairly lacklustre without the steroid from the ultimate.

junglerboy1616 votes

This^ Ryze is a champion whose individual spells look really lame on paper, and need to be seen together in action for their sheer impact to be realized. In a Teamfight, popping his ult right when his passive goes off turns him from "I'ma shoot you with this mana; pew!" to "I HAVE NOTHING RESTRAINING ME BUT LACK OF BODIES TO TARGET! DIE SCUM!"

I mean, did you read what they said about his E+R in their internal testing? In a stacked minion wave it was literally one-shotting anything (which is why it can only hit up to 6 targets now, so that it only does half your health in one shot instead). If that isn't desperate power for ya, I don't know what is. The fact that in a stacked up fight his abilities effectively hit enemies 2 or more times is plenty of power, and dumping everything onto one target and having his allies melt just by being near him captures that perfectly.

The Spell vamp and MS boost do 2 things: It lets him go in with an "I don't give a damn about your damage" attitude for the duration by vamping off of the massive AoE damage he puts out, and it lets him run at you like a crazy blue supercharged maniac firing bolts of energy at everything in sight.

TonyTonyMordecai4 votes

When I saw the Ryze rework, I really wanted to play Ryze, and it felt like if I played as him, then I could get practiced at the passive stacking stuff, then unleash everything all at once- which was what Ryze was before the changes, but really predictable because of the way the passive worked, and the fact that his kit has the same amount of range.

Now I'm waiting for 5.8 to reach live so that I can finally give Ryze a go in the Mid Lane or the Top Lane, since my first time as Ryze involved me building the spell vamp stuff and then just the normal AP instead of the Mana build that is the usual for Ryze. Thankfully my brother told me about Ryze (that is, in his current state) and how to build/play as him and then how to play Zed, since I tend to play fighter/tanks fighter/assassins than pure assassins or anything like that (I play Shaco, but that's about my limit for assassins).

Now all I need to do is wait for Ryze to receive his updated model and stuff to bring him up to date with everyone else.

BLU Medic15 votes

You know what would make it really desperate? Have the buffs Desperate Power gives you scale with how much remaining health and mana you have left.

killd0zer3 votes

His OLD OLD passive used to be that, it was also called "Desperate Power" which is why it's named that. I think it was 40% more AP while under 40% health.

while it sounds cool, what it did in reality, is Ryze would sit at 39% HP, then just find some random person and instantly 1 shot them.

BLU Medic3 votes

That sounds a bit silly. I wouldn't give him a % increase in ability power though, I'd just increase his mobility and spell vamp based on current health and mana.

softest boy2 votes

Sounds like old Karma :)

killd0zer2 votes

Yeah her old passive was a scaling version of his.

Sirsir8 votes

Mana cost: 50% of maximum mana, CD: 120s

Active: Shoots a medium speed laser with a large hitbox that deals 70% of the mana consumed + 100-200-300 base damage

Narasimha8 votes

Ryze is meant to be all about that spell spam. While a super powerful finishing move would be nice, its not really who he his. Ryze blasts his opponents down with quantity more so than quality.

MTempty5 votes

I think its just the visual throwing you off. If you think about it, when I am low and just about getting close to die, the ability to heal a little and turning all my attacks into aoe death fields is pretty much exactly what a last stand would be like. It would be nice to have them put some work in to the aoe spells so they look "overloaded".

Best Hunk 20194 votes

If his ult instantly proc'd his passive i would be totally fine with it because it would really feel like a power gate, but its just kinda there...

Hobbsgoblin4 votes

They should make "Desperate Power" 1 Give him the spell vamp, speed and aoe 2 It should cost a large portion, at least half, his current mana 3 Invert his mana costs, as in casting gives him the mana back

Basically you activate it when you are low on mana to gain it back with the inverted cost or low on health to gain it back wit the vamp. I think this would be sweet shit.

Sinlaire1 votes

could be abused to make him never have to back unless dead or needing to buy something though.

50000000000000001 votes

Also, that means buying mana on him would have less incentive because of the mana regen. People would build AP on him instead of mana.

Beoridas3 votes

honestly i dont like this all counterplay religion hyperbole. IT shouldnt be like every freaking champ is like ezreal. does his mouvement speed, aa , skin color has counter play? OMG NO? NERF NERF NERF. like honestly its tad ridiculous. ryze had weaknesses and trade offs. they didnt need to make Q a skillshot. we can live with it. but its annoying that this whole counterplay thing hits everyone. same way as people calls everybody toxic like a witch hunt just cause you forgot the dragon timer for instance. I dont like the culture Riot is creating.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Ahri is toxic. Akali is toxic. Annie is toxic. Blitzcrank is toxic. Darius is toxic. Evelynn is toxic. Fiora is toxic. Fizz is toxic. Graves is toxic. Hecarim is toxic. Irelia is toxic. Jinx is toxic. Kalista is toxic. Katarina is toxic. Kayle is toxic. Leblanc is toxic. LeeSin is toxic. MasterYi is toxic. Morgana is toxic. Nasus is toxic. Nidalee is toxic. Riven is toxic. Ryze is toxic. Syndra is toxic. Talon is toxic. Teemo is satan. Vayne is toxic. Veigar is toxic. Vi is toxic. Yasuo is toxic. Zed is toxic. Zilean is toxic.

Holy cr*p, everybody is toxic in this game! (literally all of these champions have been complained about recently).

Beoridas1 votes

.....where did i complained about a champion? or champions being toxic. i said completely the opposite. i said im tired of people complaining and talking about counter play thinking its the only thing that matters or not knowing what it means. There is also weaknesses and trade offs. Riot say a lot of words sometimes that are taken to literally every single conversation. So i think Ryze Q skillshot is not the right approach. like veigar Q for that matter. The toxic word ive mentioned was related on the behavior aspect. I really dont get how you could have understood that i was callling nerfs to champs and that everything is toxic.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

I were actually agreeing with you.

I think you missed the point...

Beoridas1 votes

errr. your post makes no sense as an answer to mine lol.

Saint Smash1 votes

Ashe is most toxic of them all.

doublelift fg2 votes

I said this and board said that killing someone with his minions is awesome

thePandev2 votes

I hope the CDR in his ult stacks now or something because if he has 30% @ max rank on his ult, and gets FH as his core, he has 10% on his FH, which bugs me

Champion Skin2 votes

Well just imagine his ult gives 20% CDR instead of 30 and there you are done And well if you don't need/want the attack speed reduction aura you could just buy Iceborn gauntlet or Spirit Visage + Zhonyas or something?

Hard4Hamsters2 votes

The reason FH was core on Ryze was that it was an efficient item that gave 20% CDR (CDR is a stat that old Ryze NEEDED). Now that it is not an absolutely needed item, it opens up his build to new defensive choices. He can finally get Randuins and GA if he's facing a more mixed damage team. The 400 mana will be missed, but I think it's a good addition overall.

junglerboy161 votes

Their whole reason for putting that much CDR in is that they don't want FH to be a third core item anymore. They want him to be a mage again, and they said having a 2 item core of tear+RoA was really good, but the fact that he needed CDR so much meant pretty much every single match had him build FH third item, which made playing against him really boring. 1 core item is average, 2 is a lot, and 3 core items that you literally have to build every single match is bad.

Most people forget it, but FH is only better than Iceborn on Ryze because it has more CDR. Other than that, Iceborn has superior damage, better sticking power, and overall stronger stats against a more varied team comp. Now though, you can do many other things with Ryze's build, like taking CDR in runes and/or masteries to cap without items, or take iceborn and cap that way, or take a spirit visage, or anything really. Now he can afford to actually build a damage item like void staff or rabbadon's 3rd (they even buffed his AP ratios and nerfed his mana ratios), because as a whole, they want Ryze to be a mage, not a magic damage DPS tank.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Now Iceborn Gauntlet will be his third core item.

50000000000000001 votes

The last 10% cooldown can be gained by item 3158, item 3025, item 3065, item 3152, and runes/masteries.

BastionKross2 votes

It is a really lame ulti. I got excited about the rework because I saw the new passive and assumed that it replaced the old ult and freed up his R for something with impact.

I was disappointed. I thought for sure that his ult would be the first thing to go if Riot ever tinkered with him. They wasted a golden opportunity here.

CoolKnightST2 votes

The only downsite towards the new Ryze is that it's skillcap will not be suitable as a recommanded champion to play during his inconsistance of his damage output.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I'm not sure if that's a downside. A higher skillcap isn't a bad thing in my eyes...

CoolKnightST2 votes

In this case it isn't the worsed scenario. Their are still plently of cheaps alternatives:

#Toplane

MasterYi, Warwick, DrMundo, Morgana, Malphite, Tryndamere

#Midlane

Annie, Morgana

The only downsite now with Ryze out of the picture in the midlane as a solid pick. Their isn't a lot left without spending 1350 ip or higher. Overal it will make it a little bit harder to get a champion pool for players that just started the game.

SociopathFriend1 votes

To be fair, as a Mid Main I have to say- it's probably one of the harder lanes so the inexperienced really should be familiar with what they're doing before they decide they want to go there.

You have ganks possible from both sides instead of 1 like the other lanes. Your opponent can sometimes easily roam and kill someone to come back with more gold than you. Katarina You will have more attention placed on your lane since it creates a greater loss of map control and is a shorter lane to get to your base; plus with lane won they can both roam. Top deals with itself and bot has supports who should be warding- so you're the best target. And Mid lane is where Assassins go to play; meaning one mistake can be death compared to Top where it just hurts for a bit or Bot where you have a Support who ideally has your back.

If Top Lane is an island, Mid Lane is the Freeway- everyone shows up to mess up your day.

Saint Smash1 votes

be thank full your champion got a rework, there are plenty others who need one far more then Ryze CoughAshecough you are crying about ryze movement I wish Ashe had movement."besides a 5 minute cool down flash/ghost which every one else has by the way."

50000000000000001 votes

Ashe has powerful low-cost, low-cooldown slow. Adding mobility would make it impossible for anyone without a gapcloser to get to her. Or even, someone with a gapcloser.

Saint Smash1 votes

Never once, Have I even said "Ashe moves to fast as it is." Please, for the love of God, Play a champion before you post a clear lie. Ashe can't escape from anything, never one have I been playing Ashe and said "man Ashe can really move" Most of the time I am crying about how stupid easy it is to catch her. She NEEDS more movement speed to stay away from EVERY ONE. She will get deleted even if she 5 kills and 26 CS AHEAD of every one. Never once have I seen a vayne with 5 kills and a 26 CS lead on everyone get deleted before she can press flash. Nine times out of 10 I see quad's handed out like candy.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Indeed, ashe would need at least something. Either cc (awesome ice powers) or a mobility tool. I mean, she IS an archer, light-weight-armor class, her profession is that of a scout if speaking in military terms. Of course she wouldn't have a shunpo or super-fast dash, but think of a material-arts move like quinn has.

Saint Smash2 votes

Some one who speaks English!

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Ähm... isn't that the reason we have an "english board"? ^^

Well, Ashe is in dire need of a rework. If she would get a mobility tool it would probably be a jump-shot: dodge the enemy sideways and shoot an arrow at the same time.

On the other hand making her completly about mobility would be a bit weird. I once made a concept about turning her into an anti-mobility champ focussed on zoning with delayed hard cc, turning her into a adc/support mix of a champ. It's still somewhere on the boards I think...

Saint Smash1 votes

I was speaking in terms of You understand that Ashe has fallen out of meta just by being naturally below average move speed. The jump shot is a cool Idea. It would help with all of those pesky junglers, I would prefer a nurf on hawkshot's range but letting her jump to the location of the hawk. I still get the feeling Ashe was intended to be built AP, where does her arrows come from?, for that matter where does enchanted crystal arrows come from?

This makes me want a Kagome Ashe skin and an Inuyasha Riven skin. I feel like Enchanted Crystal Arrow would fit nice with Sacred Arrow. And windsheer Might as well be WINDSCAR! With all that damage it does.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

"where does her arrow come from"

That's one thing that has always bothered me with her ult: "Yo let me pull this fat arrow 4 times larger than myself out of my ass and shoot it instantly". That's just... weird. They should change her ult into a Varus-Q-like-channel. More range, damage and cc the more you charge and after X time of charge it pierces the targets (=multiple stun). Maximum range: half of the map, but increase projectile speed.

Because being able to shoot toplane from bot is not really a skill but a weird gamble xD

Saint Smash1 votes

Yes, but its good for causing HUGE ammounts of rage from the enemy team, the more fed they are the better.=3

I like collecting peoples cry baby tears.=)

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

If you want tears, why not go with my approach and stun the entire enemy team with the ult? ^^

The cries of "Op champ! Cheater!" are music to my ears as well ^^

Saint Smash1 votes

I prefer making people cry with One-Shot ECA/Ap Ashe.=)

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

You'll make your team cry like this too xD

I wish they would just remove the AP scaling from the ult when changing the skill. There's no way you would ever build ap as ashe. Not even a sheen since you maybe get 2 procs out of it...

I have no idea how it even GOT there in the first place... "Oh hey we have an adc... but something is missing... AH YES! AN AP SCALING!"

... wat... o_O

Dehorn1 votes

good abilities dont have to be flashy...

SaltyToplaneGoat3 votes

They don't have to be lame as fuck either. Especially when it's the skill called "ultimate"...

NinjaFifer1 votes

A while ago I posited that his ult should be changed into a toggle form, where he burns through increasing amounts of his health to keep it up, with a solid like 15 second cooldown after deactivating it (more or less depending on how his passive turns out. I haven't checked the actual stats of it yet). So long as it's on, he's still got the spellvamp, so he's banking on his ability to keep dealing damage to keep himself form losing too much of his health. If he has to deactivate it to save health, then the enemy has a solid window to go at him before he can use it again.

4nth0l0gy1 votes

I wish his ult consumed his health to use. Talk about desperation.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

HMmm also a good possibility, yes ^^

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