So I finally understand the strategy behind champion pricing...

TheLastBaron88··3 votes·1,118 views

First of all, let me start by telling all of you at Riot to fuck yourselves. Seriously, fuck you for releasing Ekko in his current state. Never before in my history of playing this game, dating back to Season 2, have I ever felt like a game was completely unwinnable because a single champion went unbanned. Never, until now. This is the first time I have ever felt this was truly a pay to win game. Teambuilder is now completely out of the question as there are no bans.

Seriously, why is it ok for a single champion to have both the ability to nuke anyone (and in theory, everyone at once) on your team AND the most absurd collection of safety nets ever devised in a single kit? Jesus as frustrating as it is to play against a Leblanc, Zed, or Fizz, at least they can't UNDO what damage you DO manage to land on them! You can't fight him with sustained damage because his burst is faster, you can't kill him with burst champions unless you completely catch him off guard, since he can just heal back from your combo, or even just avoid it altogether with his invulnerability, and destroy you with his ridiculously low cooldowns, not to mention he can shield himself for more than you are ever likely to burst. And good luck ever landing a skillshot on him. Even if you somehow did manage to land abilities on a guy with a dash-blink combo, he'd just be able to reset his hp and completely invalidate the skill it takes to land those abilities in the first place. Seriously, this guy has got to be the most no-brain champion in the entire game. You have to be brain dead to miss his aoe (its huge), you literally can't miss his Q unless you shoot it in entirely the wrong direction as the hitbox is ENORMOUS, his blink attack is targeted, and his ultimate is an instant aoe. And if all of that wasn't enough, HE CAN JUST RIGHT CLICK YOU TO DEATH. He gets TWO on-hit passives, one dealing a buttload of magic damage on every third hit (also procced by Q on both hits), and the other being essentially an instant execute once you hit 30% hp. One auto, that's it. Even if he built zero damage, as long as he is alive he is a threat to anyone trying to stick out a long teamfight. I have seen this guy RUSH A NEGATRON CLOAK and still roam and destroy my team singlehandedly, as well as crushing trades with the midlaner. As in he had Negatron and Flask in his inventory, and that was it.

In all seriousness, I have not found a single midlaner who can reliably deal with this guy. Not a single one, and I've been at it all day. You have literally created the bane of solo queue, a character that simultaneously must be focused and cannot be focused, and cannot be effectively played against outside of the coordinated environment found at the competitive level. The only single way for this champion to lose is literally for him to be played badly. Really badly. And even still it's possible for the rest of his team to carry him, whereas he only has to be smarter than a potato to carry all of them. He has to lose the game for himself, it's not on anything you can do to him. This character has the least fun to play against kit perhaps in the history of the game, and that's really saying something when things like Singed, Nidalee and Teemo exist.

I just want to know who thought this was ok, and why. This game won't even be playable for me for weeks, assuming anyone at your company has the sense to balance his kit in the next patch (conveniently after his IP price drops, as per all of the previous new releases). This is the closest I've been to quitting this game, and that includes when I was maining ADC at the start of the Cinderhulk Terror, when all of my irl friends had already quit the game completely.

37 Comments

SEKAI7 votes

Your thread title is a complete mismatch to the rest of the post, I don't even know which one I really should comment on.

DrCyanide3 votes

So I finally understand the strategy behind champion pricing...

Sorry, I missed you realizing it was based on release date in all of the Ekko ramblings. Did you get there in the end?

TheLastBaron882 votes

Sorry, I forgot they don't teach reading comprehension in this country anymore. Did you need that spelled out for you? Like with a sloppily drawn Reddit illustration that you can get a laugh out of and feign understanding?

DrCyanide3 votes

Your title and your content do not match, and I'm the one with reading comprehension problems?

TheLastBaron882 votes

Ok, just for you then. The focal point of the post was Riot's insanely short-sighted practice of releasing things in an intentionally over-tuned state so that they will sell, and then nerfing them into the ground two weeks later. Usually things are just a LITTLE over the top, but in this case... this ranks right up there with release Xin Zhao or release Darius imo. You would just have to throw them onto live server with no playtesting whatsoever to think any of these were ok, or else be the very thickest of braindead potatoes. Market Manipulation is really the only other explanation that fits. Hence why for the first two weeks, the IP price of a champion spikes by about a thousand, before falling back to normal levels after the pre-planned nerfs. It's common knowledge that everything will be stupidly strong on release. But they churn these guys out so frequently these days, it makes it very difficult to enjoy this game for any stretch of time, and this fixed cycle really hurts the playerbase in the longterm, as players get burnt out on the bullshit.

The reason the "title doesn't match the content" is because you were supposed to be able to grasp these concepts on your own, without needing your thoughts determined for you and summarized in brief, easily digestible 4th grade writing level bullet points, because this isn't a Buzzfeed article.

DrCyanide2 votes

Lets hit your points in chronological order.

As far as intentionally over/under-tuned champions, we should see a pattern in the patch following a champion's release if that was true, with over tuned champions being nerfed and under tuned champions being buffed. With that as our measuring stick, lets look at the wiki (and PBE for Ekko) to see who has been over and under tuned.

  • Ekko's over-tuned
  • Bard's under-tuned
  • Rek'sai over-tuned
  • Kalista under-tuned
  • Azir should have been delayed another month (under-tuned because everything broke?)
  • Gnar was under-tuned
  • Braum was over-tuned
  • Vel'koz was balanced
  • Yasuo was balanced (only nerf was to Statikk Shiv interaction with his passive)
  • Jinx was over-tuned

So of the last 10 champions to be released, only four were over tuned in more than a year's time. The balance between over-tuned and not over-tuned champions is the same for the most recent five as it is for the least recent five, which implies that things haven't gotten any worse.

As I recall reading (I wasn't there for it), release Xin Zhao was disabled because he was so over the top. Perhaps it's better to compare Ekko to Preseason 5 Warwick, where he's very strong and in need of nerfs but can still be dealt with. I haven't gone against Ekko in lane yet, I've been playing a bit more Hexakill than Summoners Rift games, so my opinion of how bad the situation is might be a little optimistic.

Everyone knows that Riot rarely listens to the PBE feedback, be it for skins, champion balance, or anything else. I'm pretty sure the lack of listening to customers has adversely effected them in the skin department with the most recent Face Cards lineup, which was criticized for not having particles for Syndra in particular. I don't know of a place to get Skin Sale statistics, but just by eyeballing things it doesn't look like too many people picked up the line. Champions can be (and often are) bought with IP, while skins are RP only. All of this combines to make me think that it's not Market Manipulation. Misjudging the market or being braindead I could see.

The price drops by 1500 IP after one week, not two. If it was two weeks, it would favor your theory more, as the average person wouldn't buy the champion until it was patched unless they wanted to pay extra for the over-tuned version. As it is, everyone can play the over (or under) tuned version of a champion before it's patched for the normal 6300 IP.

The frequency of champion releases has dramatically slowed down from where it was. In 2012, there were 19 champions released, a pace of close to a champion every two weeks. In contrast, 2014 had only 6 champions released, or once every two months on average. The abrupt change in pace, while good for the champions being released and for the community to adapt to them, leaves us with a very long list of champions that are 6300 IP. At the current rate, it will take approximately five years for Ekko to have a price drop. The cycle of champion releases is also not fixed, as you probably recall Gnar and Azir were released within one month of each other, as were Kalista and Rek'sai, before the gap between champions started to grow again. Rioters at the time mentioned that the back-to-back releases were due to champion development teams finishing their separate projects at close to the same time. A fixed champion release cycle would imply that these champions would be delayed to fit the schedule.


I don't need my thoughts given to me, nor do I need brief points. I need fellow board members willing to think things through and not post non sequitur titles and rants.

TheLastBaron882 votes

Wow ok this was more like what I was looking for. Constructive and not simply confrontational. Much better than snarky one-liners. I apologize for judging your intelligence based on your other comments. This was well-written and thought out.

The only things I'm like to disagree with are with Kalista and Gnar. My opinion of Gnar is somewhat skewed due to the effect ranged top laners have already had on the lane, as they bully out a large chunk of melee top laners with that one simple difference. I also remember him being a lot stronger on release than he is now, did he not get a bunch of nerfs?

As for Kalista, I don't recall her being buffed once since release. In fact, I was pretty sure she was considered THE unstoppable go-to ADC up until they nerfed how her autoattacks worked. Something about the wind up and consequent delay to her hopping passive.

As far as the rant, it's been a rough week of dealing with the new fucker, morale has been low and frustration mounting. Also wanted to make sure I hit all of the major points about WHY the experience has been so thoroughly unenjoyable.

Also I want to thank you for your honesty, and encourage you to try the lane out for yourself. Tell me what you think. I suspect you will arrive at roughly the same, if less vulgar, conclusion.

DrCyanide2 votes

My assessment of "up" or "op" on release was based 100% on the patch immediately following their release either buffing or nerfing them, so it'd be unbiased by personal opinion. Gnar was buffed across the board, while Kalista's changes were pretty close to neutral, leaning slightly a buff with her Rend changes. I'd be willing to go with Kalista being "balanced" by the patch-notes definition.

I play a lot of mid lane, so I'll probably run into Ekko soon, but I'll admit that I main a rather unique pick - AP Ezreal. It'll be interesting to see if I can out poke him, then dash away when he tries to dash on me. It'll really come down to how much of my burst the individual Ekko dodges with his dash and ultimate. A true battle of skill... but I'm a little crazy in that I actually like running AP Ezreal into LeBlanc. I'll assume it will be fun until I learn otherwise.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Haha don't you mean "a true display of skill"? And yeah, see I like playing difficult matchups for the challenge as well. For instance, I totally dumpstered an LB as Katarina (don't you dare say anything about that pick, most of her matchups are horrid, and I only play her for the fun of outplaying people with her targeted jump), which isn't exactly a winning matchup in most cases. To be completely fair, that LB was pretty bad, but it felt really good to outplay a champion like that both strategically and mechanically.

Do be sure to come back and let me know how the Ez/Ekko matchup plays out, I'd like to hear about it.

DrCyanide1 votes

Took me a while to get a match, but I left this tab up just for when I did ;)

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1890252092/42592968?tab=overview

Considering I got my first 2 kills on him before I got my Runeglaive, I don't think it's too out there to assume I'd have been able to have a similar game with Lich Bane.

His first kill on me was really good. He dashed in on me, I dashed back and started to channel my ultimate. He used his ultimate to dodge mine, then flashed back in to deliver a Q to the face.

His early Q harass was a pain in the butt though. Made me glad I started with a flask.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Yeah I've since found some things that work against him. Like Graves in the bot lane. Or Varus mid, apparently. Idk, most times when i stomp an Ekko, it has everything to do with how bad the player is. But there are definitely things he struggles with early, at least.

Darth Ponzius2 votes

{quoted}

First of all, let me start by telling all of you at Riot to fuck yourselves. Seriously, fuck you for releasing Ekko in his current state. Never before in my history of playing this game, dating back to Season 2, have I ever felt like a game was completely unwinnable because a single champion went unbanned. Never, until now. This is the first time I have ever felt this was truly a pay to win game. Teambuilder is now completely out of the question as there are no bans.

Seriously, why is it ok for a single champion to have both the ability to nuke anyone (and in theory, everyone at once) on your team AND the most absurd collection of safety nets ever devised in a single kit? Jesus as frustrating as it is to play against a Leblanc, Zed, or Fizz, at least they can't UNDO what damage you DO manage to land on them! You can't fight him with sustained damage because his burst is faster, you can't kill him with burst champions unless you completely catch him off guard, since he can just heal back from your combo, or even just avoid it altogether with his invulnerability, and destroy you with his ridiculously low cooldowns, not to mention he can shield himself for more than you are ever likely to burst. And good luck ever landing a skillshot on him. Even if you somehow did manage to land abilities on a guy with a dash-blink combo, he'd just be able to reset his hp and completely invalidate the skill it takes to land those abilities in the first place. Seriously, this guy has got to be the most no-brain champion in the entire game. You have to be brain dead to miss his aoe (its huge), you literally can't miss his Q unless you shoot it in entirely the wrong direction as the hitbox is ENORMOUS, his blink attack is targeted, and his ultimate is an instant aoe. And if all of that wasn't enough, HE CAN JUST RIGHT CLICK YOU TO DEATH. He gets TWO on-hit passives, one dealing a buttload of magic damage on every third hit (also procced by Q on both hits), and the other being essentially an instant execute once you hit 30% hp. One auto, that's it. Even if he built zero damage, as long as he is alive he is a threat to anyone trying to stick out a long teamfight. I have seen this guy RUSH A NEGATRON CLOAK and still roam and destroy my team singlehandedly, as well as crushing trades with the midlaner. As in he had Negatron and Flask in his inventory, and that was it.

In all seriousness, I have not found a single midlaner who can reliably deal with this guy. Not a single one, and I've been at it all day. You have literally created the bane of solo queue, a character that simultaneously must be focused and cannot be focused, and cannot be effectively played against outside of the coordinated environment found at the competitive level. The only single way for this champion to lose is literally for him to be played badly. Really badly. And even still it's possible for the rest of his team to carry him, whereas he only has to be smarter than a potato to carry all of them. He has to lose the game for himself, it's not on anything you can do to him. This character has the least fun to play against kit perhaps in the history of the game, and that's really saying something when things like Singed, Nidalee and Teemo exist.

I just want to know who thought this was ok, and why. This game won't even be playable for me for weeks, assuming anyone at your company has the sense to balance his kit in the next patch (conveniently after his IP price drops, as per all of the previous new releases). This is the closest I've been to quitting this game, and that includes when I was maining ADC at the start of the Cinderhulk Terror, when all of my irl friends had already quit the game completely.

Very slow Q = you can't littelly miss the Q W that need 3 seconds to land, you can see him doing it and you have also time to dodge it before it actually land = You have to be braind death to miss his aoe The most predictable Ulti in the game (you can see his ghost walking so you know where he will go) = ultimate instant aoe

and i also have to know where you've seen that his burst is faster then some other assassin

3TWarrior2 votes

Actually, in team fights his W is absolutely devastating because so many avatars cover the mist-thin circle. If they'd make it like Nasus E, it would be easier. Also, his ult has the AOE of a flash in every direction, so if he's trading in a fight, you can't trade with ekko. if he runs from your team because you're picking him off and start focusing his teammates, he ults back in and instantly kills you or knocks of 40% of your max hp in one go at minimum while recovering every bit of health he has lost

I just played a 6v6 where an ekko on our team tripled their team from full health WITHOUT using his ult just because their abilities were on cooldown, even though they had multiple carries and tanks

Darth Ponzius1 votes

So a triple kill in a hexakill mode, something that a random Katarina can also do, is the prove that Ekko is op? LOOK AT THE DAMN GHOST AND DON'T STAY NEAR HIM. It's not so difficult guys you all should try. A skill that needs 3 seconds to land, it's devasting... 3 seconds. In 3 seconds all can happen. If a skill like that is devasting don't let me think at amumu/malph/Wukong/Sejuani ult. Why in at least 6-7 games with an Ekko i finished in his ult like once, and in it's w 2 or 3 times but you can't position yourself in a good way?

3TWarrior2 votes

lol. he took them on from full health WITHOUT his ult and WITHOUT his stun while it was 4 against 1 and he escaped without using his ult at 50% hp. They weren't slacking by any means either. The teams were pretty much even, only that they exhausted their cooldowns to damage the other members of our team, too injured to continue the fight.

Important points: he DIDN"T USE HIS ULT; he took down 3 people from full health individually; he did so against 4 people without using his stun

details were added in this post

Darth Ponzius1 votes

and? i continue to not see the point... a triple when the enemy have all in cd is not a prove

TheLastBaron881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darth Ponzius,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RiBXVgEq,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-02T08:12:31.889+0000)

a triple when the enemy have all in cd is not a prove

Should anyone here really be considering the opinion of a guy who doesn't understand basic English syntax?

Darth Ponzius1 votes

and the fact that english is not my main language have to hide the fact that he have no argumentation beside "a triple"? or the fact that your post is just a "my ass got kicked by ekko so he's op"?

TheLastBaron881 votes

hang on doesn't EU have it's own forums? And yeah the guy's story was vague, though it does still suggest a pretty extreme power budget for a "utility assassin". Honestly I wonder if the concept was doomed from the start, since most assassins are balanced by their LACK of utility vs mages.

The point of the overall post was to point out how ridiculous Riot's practice of unleashing new monstrosities upon solo queue and leaving us to deal with them until they've made their money is. I mean, unless someone there is really going to tell me that this guy looked like a fair and balanced idea on paper. I'll wait.

To put it in perspective, I have been watching this guy crush every single game he is in when not played by potatoes, singlehandedly, and it's Katarina nerfs we have on PBE. To her already abyssmal base damages. Like what the crap is wrong with this community. It's as if everything they think is weak or overpowered is based on youtube videos from season 2.

Icestar11861 votes

Yes, because he's right. Attack the argument, not the person.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Except that his "arguments" are themselves personal attacks?
Also extra condescending. And you know, it would be entirely another thing if they were polite and helpful in sharing their perspective, but lacking that, the lack of intellectual credibility generally associated with word-salad posts gets to be a little harder to overlook.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Seriously, fuck you for releasing Ekko in his current state. Never before in my history of playing this game, dating back to Season 2, have I ever felt like a game was completely unwinnable because a single champion went unbanned. Never, until now.

http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5227521+_6e8e20df6f4e05527303266eefd04ff4.jpg

DrNova2 votes

Be quiet.

Trídent2 votes

That title has no relevance to the thread's contents.

Csfuser1 votes

Your match history has a completely different story. You've gone against Ekko and won multiple times, and even winning lane against him a couple times. Just because your Elo doesn't understand how to counterplay a champion, doesn't mean he's OP. I've 1v1d plenty of Ekkos playing as adc.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. This comment is actually worth replying to. Yes I've won games against Ekko. Even won lane once or twice, but only once or twice. And no, it wasn't because of anything I did. As stated in the post, he played really really badly in all of those cases. Except maybe this last game, Ahri seems to do well against him. What little success I have had, had EVERYTHING to do with things the other player did wrong, not things that I did well. Had he played correctly, he still would have wrecked me in each and every matchup I have thus far attempted.

And in accordance with this post, even after dumpstering him in lane it simply did not matter. Think I solo killed him like 3 times in lane phase. Still didnt matter. He could still scavenge kills by last hitting my teammates with his blink auto once they dropped to 30% health or so, and I was forced to be where ever he was to stop him from just murdering my teammates, while also being unable to go for the kill because he would simply use his ulti to heal after I had blown everything.

Also in accordance with my post, it has not been any fun in any of the games I have had to deal with him. It's tedious and requires much more skill to play against than to play as. I have literally only been playing mid lane all day for the purpose of finding something I can play against him. So far the best I can do is Ahri, and it still requires my team not to feed him even a single kill.

Darth Ponzius1 votes

This things when you were playing Leblanc are hilarious

TheLastBaron881 votes

yeah, not being able to out-trade a "utility assassin" with LB seems to illustrate my point pretty well... I mean, 75% of my hp with a single q with only a Negatron Cloak when i have hp and mr runes? It's on like a 3 second cd too... and yes I know I should dodge it fine, that's not the point. This guy is supposedly balanced by "low ratios and bases" in exchange for amazing utility, saving him from the feast or famine of most assassin designs, only... he has like 8 ap ratios, and none of them are small. There isn't a trade-off. He has possibly the highest amount of safety in the game, isn't easily punished for bad positioning, and insanely high kill pressure to the point that he cannot be dove, even if he's alone. And his own dive potential is just ludicrous.

Played two games with LB to see how best to play against him, Q max had no effect whatsoever, the only success I had was with maxing W for waveclear so I could roam. Pretty sub-optimal. Ahri works because she has the mobility to dodge his skillshots and ult, kite him, and chase his ass down, a charm to interrupt his combos and catch him out, and enough waveclear to push him in and roam while also getting off some poke.

Literally have not found any other good matchups for dealing with him in lane. Wouldn't even call it crushing him, since it's still difficult early to keep him from roaming for free kills (teammates rarely respond to pings or even spotting him on wards themselves, that's not something I'm failing to do.)

Darth Ponzius1 votes

So you can't harass to death a melee champ with LB. A champ that does ridicolous ammount of damage with pratically no item and it's pratically unchasable, a champ that seems to be a pretty good counter to Ekko. At this point i think the fault is not of the "op champ"

TheLastBaron881 votes

considering that they can start flask and push wave and harass at the same time with a massive low cd ranged skill with a low mana cost... yeah, my mana bar ran dry before his hp bar did. Thing is, most mid laners need ap items built to do what he does. An assassin that offers that much damage, mobility, and utility in addition to personal survivability, definitely doesn't also need that much constant harass and powerful waveclear. Seriously, not only is his Q a 5 sec cd at max rank, but it starts the cd timer when it is cast, not when it returns! Effectively removes the inherent weakness of being melee.

And yeah, I was playing LB. That was kind of the point. To compare their relative strength. You sure do a lot of crying about how broken LB is and how anyone who ever plays her is concentrated evil for someone trying to defend Ekko, lmao. The hypocrisy is tangible.

Darth Ponzius1 votes

Sure the hypocrisy is showed by someone that think that Ekko needs only some nerf to scaling but not in someone that talk of Ekko and don't consider that Lb can poop on Ekko just cause you failed with her. Ooooook. And i will not talk of how compared to Lb the burst and the escape potential of Ekko are "just" good.

TheLastBaron881 votes

LMFAO ok dude. Maybe you should be in another of the countless threads crying about how OP Leblanc is because you can't chase her down like a baddie playing team deathmatch. Never mind that she is worthless if she can't kill you, whereas Ekko has the option of kiting teams into oblivion. Never mind that at least damage done to Leblanc, stays on her. Never mind that Leblanc's jumps cannot save her from targeted abilities because she has no invulnerability. Never mind that the current state of Leblanc is in no way a good indicator of how balanced or imbalanced a champion is. That's the very dumbest sort of broken logic that exists on Forums. Honestly, Leblanc is only good for two things: stomping on baddies, and luring baddies off on stupid chases to distract them from OBJECTIVES, those things that actually win games, you know? She actually does have weaknesses, like her escape being her waveclear, her other spells being single target, the short range on her Q, the need to actually combo her abilities in order to get good damage on targets, her early waveclear being dirt, etc etc. Ekko doesn't have any of those problems, save maybe for "comboing" his one ability with an auto attack to proc his passive, which is SO difficult to do with a targeted dash-blink auto ability.

Thing is, Assassins are SUPPOSED to suffer for falling behind; that's the trade-off necessary to enable their snowbally playstyle. If someone is going to scale into an unstoppable late game monstrosity, it is ESSENTIAL that you be able to stomp them into the dirt in lane phase and prevent them from crushing your teammates. Giving the same guy this much utility and safety with assassin-level damage and mobility, ensures that he is never useless, no matter how far behind he is. It's kind of a problem when a character can do just about everything in a single kit. And a 2.25 second AoE stun? Regardless of how "difficult" it is to land something like that, most SUPPORTS don't even get that much utility.

Darth Ponzius1 votes

"Maybe you should be in another of the countless threads crying about how OP Ekko is because you can't chase him down like a baddie playing team deathmatch." This remember to you something?

With a 7 sec cd on q at max range Ekko can kyte you to oblivion? Lol. Oh wow Leblanc with 2 dashes on a ridicoulous cd and with the possibility to blink back cannot be saved by target ability... what a shame, a big problem for someone like her...

Wait a sec, you're comparing the difficulty of landing leblanc q, w (wow SO difficult to land a target spell and an instant dash) and the chain with the possibility to copy one of that (the q for max damage), with Ekko's slow Q, W that need 3 seconds to land, a dash that needs a target in the second part and the R that is not always realiable as source of damage. Really?

Oh and explain me if the current state isn't a good indicator to determine if a champ is balanced or not what we have to use? Tell me.

You can see the weakest part of Leblanc kit but obviously the fact that the entire kit of Ekko can be couterplayed (same as Leblanc right?) with good positioning is a lie or a dream. 3 seconds to land the w and you need to enter in it. 3 fucking seconds, you can see the animation and you can see the w 0,5 seconds before it lands. 3 damn seconds. But obviously all of that don't count cause probably you continue fight him in the w area and near his ghost or you continue to chase him with his ghost neat to you.

Ekko needs some small changes to numbers cause the kit is completelly counterable, Lb kit instead have little counterplay combined with her monstrous damage.

TheLastBaron881 votes

LMAO your English is as bad as your logic.

Leblanc uncounterable? You can completely avoid the damage on her W and E, and her Q is very close range. And she dies really fast. I've stomped fed LBs with jungle Zyra before, easy. Even easier with a competitive pick.

And yeah, it IS stupid to try and defend a dumb design by comparing it to another dumb design and complaining about that one. I believe they call that a "straw man argument", and it is the kind of approach that only the most basic of simpletons employs.

No, LB is NOT a good, balanced design. No, that does not make Ekko in any way ok, it just means there are TWO stupidly unfun champions to play against in the game. More actually, but for the purpose of this argument, let's keep it simple. Wouldn't want to confuse you.

Darth Ponzius1 votes

and i've stomped her many times too, but this mean absolutelly nothing. If you continue to think that the problem with Ekko is the design, good luck. All his kit is counterable but surelly he have a design problem.... The only argumentation that i can see is "i lost vs him so he's op" nothing else. Try to focus on giving some good argumentation and don't try to focus on my bad English. Maybe you will result more credible

Icestar11861 votes

A single Q won't do 75% of your HP. For a counterpick, try anyone who beats Fizz or Leblanc, they're both high-mobility assassins like Ekko.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Except that it did, or I wouldn't have said so. Maybe it was more like 60%. It was well over half, leaving a small chunk of health. Might have procced his passive to do it, I may have taken the first hit from the previous q 2 seconds prior.

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