So why is Butcher's Bridge being called a new map...

TheLastBaron88·Jun 25, 2015·11 votes·941 views

...when it has no new gameplay elements? There is nothing to distinguish it from the already existing ARAM map except for the artwork. Which would make it a Reskin.

Honestly I'm extremely disappointed. I feel like if you are going to create a "new map" to represent a different region in the game world, it should actually offer some new variety in gameplay. Is MOBA map design really so difficult? Bilgewater deserved better. And this isn't just a step back for Bilgewater, it's a step back for every future region to be potentially featured on a map in the future, if this is allowed to become the norm.

17 Comments

GreenLoreJun 25, 20154 votes

Even though it is no new gameplay mode,it is still a new map.

The big problem with introducing new maps for completely new gamemodes is that these modes can easily fall into obscurity. Thats why the magma chamber was cancelled,because riot realized that no one is going to bother playing it,thats why Dominion is so rarely played.

If they created for example a new 5v5 map,it would simply end up being extremely unpopular or the current summoners rift would turn extremely unpopular.One would most likely dominate the other.

Also I dunno how this is a step back for representing the different regions in the game.I mean with reskins for the different modes,there are plenty possibilities to give every nation a map skin for an existing game mode.

TheLastBaron88Jun 25, 20152 votes

Magma Chamber's problem was that it sucked. Or at least, it looked really sucky and poorly thought out. I think they only actually introduced it at that special event to say "there, we actually made it". They had only been promising a magma chamber for years.

GreenLoreJun 25, 20151 votes

Doesn't that exactly show just how difficult it is to make well thought game mode that keeps people permanently entertained?

Currently they are pushing out featured game modes from time to time and these modes are usually extremely popular early on,but then quickly loose said popularity,which just shows that people are usually not very interested in new game modes,or at least not permanently.

Also keep in mind,magma chamber hat 2 iterations,the first one was planned to be even bigger than summoners rift with lots of different paths between the lanes,but they scrapped it because it became evident that most people would rather play the regular 5v5 anyway.

TheLastBaron88Jun 26, 20151 votes

I don't know if it proves how difficult it is, but it does prove that they apparently didn't want to do it. Maybe it's just not worth the financial and labor investments to their speculators, and maybe they're right, but that IS how you eventually end up with stagnancy. Idk.

Hey now, some of those featured game modes are solid gold. Ascension in particular had potential I think, though it had some glaring balance issues that simply can't be addressed when you are only going for a temporary release. Also, I have never heard anyone speak badly of URF. In fact, whenever URF is out, it becomes nearly impossible to find a queue for any other gamemode.

Regarding magma chamber, yeah I think the initial incarnation suffered a lot from lack of direction. I don't think they knew what exactly they wanted it to do, how it should play, or why we should want it. I think they just wanted it to be new.

Based on the clear ability Riot has to make fun game modes with the tools they have, I can only assume their aversion to maps is a more technical one. That, or just the usual corporate risk-aversion crap. Only real way to find out which is to ask them, I guess.

The LovelessJun 25, 20151 votes

Magma Chamber failed because no one wants to interact with only 2-4 people when there's so many players out there, plus the hype was that MC was going to be bigger than 5v5.

As for Dominion...it's interesting and not bad, but it seems less engaging and more predictable than SR. You basically go to this point and capture when you see the enemy, fight and hope to win, then try to keep most of the points captured. Plus it's shorter so it doesn't feel as epic as the typical 40-50 min games.

Penguin EclipseJun 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Even though it is no new gameplay mode,it is still a new map.

The big problem with introducing new maps for completely new gamemodes is that these modes can easily fall into obscurity. Thats why the magma chamber was cancelled,because riot realized that no one is going to bother playing it,thats why Dominion is so rarely played.

If they created for example a new 5v5 map,it would simply end up being extremely unpopular or the current summoners rift would turn extremely unpopular.One would most likely dominate the other.

Also I dunno how this is a step back for representing the different regions in the game.I mean with reskins for the different modes,there are plenty possibilities to give every nation a map skin for an existing game mode.

League of Legends has more than enough players to support many maps. Dominion didn't die because people didn't want to play it. Dominion died because Riot didn't do shit to support it. Only then did people leave. The same thing would happen to Summoner's Rift if Riot didn't support it.

GreenLoreJun 25, 20151 votes

If thats the case,then how comes that Aram is still going well,despite receiving very rarely any attention?(the only times were on its release and one update that introduced the dash and changed some items around).

Dominion is seen as rather repetetive by many players,thats why it isn't played so much. It doesn't matter if the player base is large enough to support several maps,if said player base doesn't bother to play them. The only reason why they don't remove dominion is that,like pretty much everything in the game,the map has a following and there is no gain in removing it now.

And even if you're right,wouldn't that only show that they shouldn't do more maps,if they already struggle to keep the current ones alive?

TheLastBaron88Jun 26, 20151 votes

Because ARAM is a very simplistic game mode built largely on the same mechanics as the base 5v5 map. There is a lane, you push down turrets and then the base. There are added quirks like no platform regen or recall etc to spice things up, but no entirely new mechanics to worry about like with Dominion's capture system, which has an entirely different game flow than any other mode in the game.

Basically, ARAM is how the 5s map would be if everyone grouped at level 1 for constant teamfights and pushed down mid. Dominion is nothing like the base map, and doesn't get the attention it needs to actually function right, hence why I don't play it.

canpan14Jun 25, 20152 votes

It is probably a lot of work to design a new map that is fair and interesting while working out all the bugs and balance issues that come with it (The failure of dominion for example).

TheLastBaron88Jun 25, 20151 votes

Yeah I don't doubt that it would be difficult to do frequently, but it's not as though Riot makes new gamemode maps frequently. Or at all.

I don't particularly like Dominion at all, but I hear it has a pretty dedicated following?

canpan14Jun 25, 20151 votes

I find it a lot of fun. The games are often quicker than ARAM but I think they get a lot more intense when both teams are down to sub 50 points.

They don't make new maps because they are a ton of work. They could problem throw out maps that aren't balanced and have lots of weird glitches but that isn't how they have done things since they started.

TheLastBaron88Jun 26, 20151 votes

Yeah I'm not asking for them to throw out new maps as frequently as featured game modes. But one every other year or so would be nice. Like a king of the hill map for Mt Targon. Sounds manly, chaotic, and just the kind of ridiculous I enjoy from alternative gamemodes.

I'd also really like to see a Kumungu Jungle map that is super claustrophobic, scary, and full of brush. I really liked that about the OLD twisted treeline map; the jungle sections were appealing enough in terms of terror and excitement to make me want to suffer through the rest of that maps flaws. I miss it still.

canpan14Jun 26, 20152 votes

Yeah I think part of the problem is they are stuck in this 'keep releasing new champions' mode. It has slowed down a lot compared to a few years ago, but I would rather them focus on balance and designing new items/remaking old champions.

bradJun 25, 20151 votes

you clearly dont know how hard it must be to model and texture an entire map

and i sure as fuck dont either

but dont come here thinking its all just so easy

Penguin EclipseJun 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=hi im bread,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=n5YR1nyc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-06-25T19:04:50.070+0000)

you clearly dont know how hard it must be to model and texture an entire map

and i sure as fuck dont either

but dont come here thinking its all just so easy

It's not easy to create new maps. It's also not difficult when you have a workforce the size of Riot. Other games create new maps on a regular basis with a fraction of the resources.

TheLastBaron88Jun 25, 20151 votes

I'm not saying there wasn't any work done. But it's a reskin. It plays exactly the same as regular ARAM in every way. I'm certainly not faulting the artists, it LOOKS great! But League is a game, not a movie. This just isn't doing anything for me that the Howling Abyss isn't already. Thus I feel like it is a waste of resources that could have gone towards actually making a new map/gamemode. Maybe something Island-y if they want to set a map in Bilgewater. Bridgewater doesn't make quite as much sense. And that's really what irritates me I guess. Yeah, people talk about how hard it is to make good maps and gamemodes, but maybe if they tried at those things instead of a retexture every few months, they would actually be able to allocate the manpower and resources to do it?