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You know who really needs help?

TheLastBaron88··46 votes·3,556 views

Miss Fortune. Good god, how has she been left like this for so long? She literally offers nothing that another adc does not currently do much, much better. Caitlyn and Varus have better poke with longer range, Graves Lucian and Sivir all offer better burst, Sivir Lucian Ezreal and Vayne offer better mobility in combat, and Vayne Kogmaw Ashe and Jinx offer much, much better sustained damage.

I guess the biggest question I have to ask is, what was Miss Fortune's kit SUPPOSED to do? Like what is it actually designed for? Winning lane? Any burst ADC can totally destroy her in lane with ease, and Cait is a MUCH better choice if you only want to win lane, as she scales better in the late game too, thanks to her range and headshot. Is she supposed to be the aoe face-wrecking adc? Graves Jinx and Sivir are much better choices for that. The only lanes an MF is likely to win, are against weaker laning adcs who should lose lane anyway.

The only thing I can think of that MF really does, is offer some ad-scaling magic damage on her impure shots, stacking up as fights go on. Even still, this isn't enough to allow her to avoid a LW if she wants any respectable damage output. If you want an ADC with magic damage, Corki is probably still a better choice.

Her passive is worthless in combat. It's even disabled by a single minion attack, removing even its usefulness in lane. Fine, maybe early game that's necessary for balance. But maybe it could scale as you level up, becoming immune to disable from minions, and then late game being permanent? Just an idea.

Worst of all I think is her Ultimate. What is the optimal use for this thing? Open with it in lane and your opponent just walks away and waits for stacks to fall off. Try to counterinitiate a teamfight with it and you lose a TON of much better single target damage that will help your team a lot more than applying impure stacks. The only good use for it seems to be as an execute on enemies who have gotten just out of your auto range, and even then, the damage is pretty bad. This ability is pitiful compared to what other adcs have to offer. The base damage isn't great, and the scaling is nonexistent if you are playing MF as an adc. It is supremely underwhelming for how difficult it is to utilize, considering that it locks you in place for the duration.

I just want to know what niche this character was/is supposed to fill, because it doesn't seem like there is a single good reason to ever choose this champion.

123 Comments

The Bearded Bard14 votes

Last time they 'helped' her they destroyed Mage Fortune.

TheLastBaron882 votes

Yeah that's not the kinda help she needed, for sure. I seem to remember she was really good in Season 2, right? Even some of season 3? Her ultimate used to demolish early teamfights. What happened?

TheFameAnimal3 votes

Might be due to her W, to do decent damage with her ult, you have to stack her w's passive and then ult. if you don't stack it, then it's almost shite in team fights :/

Very Hard Engage13 votes

yet somehow shes sitting at a 52% win rate.......

i dont play her, but i realize there are better picks out there like kalista and jinx who can offer more in terms of utility, but win rates dont lie. id love to see MF played more but "why should i pick her" "what does she do that really stands out for a team and makes me want to play her".

Slamurai Jack10 votes

{quoted}

yet somehow shes sitting at a 52% win rate.......

i dont play her, but i realize there are better picks out there like kalista and jinx who can offer more in terms of utility, but win rates dont lie. id love to see MF played more but "why should i pick her" "what does she do that really stands out for a team and makes me want to play her".

On paper, she seems like she should be awful. Her passive is meh, her W steroid is outclassed, her E is a huge mana dump that doesn't do much, and there's no good time to use her ult. And yet, I win with her, and so do other people. I guess she belongs in the "alot better than they seem like they should be" category along with Aatrox, Veigar, Evelynn, Heimerdinger, Taric, and Lux.

TheLastBaron882 votes

What's wrong with Lux? Only issue I've ever had with her is her high early mana costs and kinda lowish base damages.

Slamurai Jack11 votes

{quoted}

What's wrong with Lux? Only issue I've ever had with her is her high early mana costs and kinda lowish base damages.

There's nothing really wrong with her, which was my point. On paper, she's severely outclassed, but in practice, she does just fine. I feel that MF is the same way.

Neo Cyrus2 votes

I just checked, and it turns out the sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions. 3000 games total.

And besides, win rates can be incredibly deceptive, especially with super low sample sizes. Works the other way around too, LB was too strong even when she had a 44-46% win rate back when she had a silence. Btw it's 43.8% now with a 22000 game sample size.

Rinky Dinky6 votes

Keep in mind she always has that winrate.

Every patch.

Mew Goes AD12 votes

MF used to be the ultimate lane bully, in trade for not having much escape and falling off after midgame.

....Then Riot released other lane bullies that, instead of a trade-off for it, had "everything an ADC "needs" to have to do their job." And, then they reworked all the ADCs that MF excelled in lane bullying because they were being bullied too much by all the newer, angrier ADC bullies.

LegacyDAP5 votes

You know who really REALLY needs help. A lot of champions that they haven't touched, and just sit at the bottom of the pick list for years. Yorick Galio Twitch Poppy Karthus Trundle Taric Like it or not Riot does it. There is obviously so many better champions to pick why would you pick any of these champions unless built around a specific synergy.

FirexSaber2 votes

At least Taric, Yorick, and Poppy are all getting reworks.

DoctorSpaceDog5 votes

Trundle is good, especially in this meta. He's just not all that straightforward, his kit is designed to troll. I saw a trundle today who was practically unkillable when he ulted our tank.

He's hilarious against melee top laners too, I imagine gnar who's everywhere right now would dick him in the face but fuck Gnar. Q and R steal all your stats while W and E give him ridiculous chase and disengage. It's almost impossible to fight trundle when he doesn't want to fight, then once he has the advantage it's impossible to get away.

Only Play Darius6 votes

Don't touch Poppy. She is my secret little broken pick, she is unbelievably overpowered and toxic to play against idk why no one uses her.

chipndip11 votes

Cause she relies on being babysat by the ally JG until she gets fed some kills. If she can't get kills, she can't win, cause she definitely isn't farming her way to items.

BluePolarizer5 votes

put her in the jungle and get her rangers, while you have an extremely safe team comp. Unless they pick Shaco or every lane plays like morons you pretty much won.

NemeBro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lXLXvRW3,comment-id=00050003,timestamp=2015-06-15T04:43:00.741+0000)

Don't touch Poppy. She is my secret little broken pick, she is unbelievably overpowered and toxic to play against idk why no one uses her.

People don't play Poppy because she's unpleasant to look at, unlike the other females in the League of Waifus.

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

Annie RekSai Tristana Lulu all have far better pick rates than Poppy

BestTristMyHaus2 votes

{quoted}

Annie RekSai Tristana Lulu all have far better pick rates than Poppy

Cuz they're all sexy waifus that don't hide the goods under armor (or look "LollyPoppy" nasty). Just look at Rek'sai and tell me you don't wanna REK that.

TurquoiseYoshi3 votes

Annie's like, 8 or something. Tristana and Lulu are yordles. But that last line made me laugh.

TurquoiseYoshi3 votes

Dude Taric has a 100% win rate in the EU LCS right now. Compare that to Ekko's 20% win rate. In all seriousness, you're completely correct in that they all need overhauls.

The Lexer3 votes

and Yorick was 100% last split in EU

The Bearded Bard3 votes

{quoted}

You know who really REALLY needs help. A lot of champions that they haven't touched, and just sit at the bottom of the pick list for years. Yorick Galio Twitch Poppy Karthus Trundle Taric Like it or not Riot does it. There is obviously so many better champions to pick why would you pick any of these champions unless built around a specific synergy.

You take Galio off that list right now. He's fine. Literally the only thing that I would like changed about him is the cast time on his E, I'd like it removed. That's it.

Nuclear Panda2 votes

IMO Karthus and Trundle are fine.

Shifune5 votes

I feel you on the MF ult. I literally never know when to use it because in basically every situation, i do like 10x more damage just auto attacking. When i play MF i use her ult less than 5 times a game. Usually it is in the early game to finish people off who flash away or something when they have like no hp.

TheLastBaron882 votes

This. Yeah same, other than sniping a few kills off of fleeing enemies, it seems pretty worthless. Especially when you consider that Caitlyn ult already does that, and better.

Photos of Ghosts3 votes

she's getting reworked after gp

TheLastBaron882 votes

That's pretty exciting. I'm really looking forward to the GP rework. That was another guy whose kit just didn't make sense. I had heard something of the sort before, sorta, but I guess I really wanted to raise the question of "what exactly is this character supposed to be?" It's like the number one question you should ask when you attempt to rework something. I guess I mean to ask, does Riot even know what they wanted MF to do when they made her? And if so, what was it?

Davy Crockett4 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK4FMV41dbg

Hope this helps! This explains GP in every possible way :D

DrNova3 votes

I like MF. She doesnt have some hook like other adc's, but she is a good general adc, and pretty strong actually

stealthfox943 votes

She's getting an update soon, I don't think she's as bad as people say, her ultimate is actually pretty bursty, and has a wide AOE range. It's not quite as burst as Graves ultimate is though, so I see the logic of "other ADC's can do her job better" Her passive could use some love. Wasn't there that one time in S3 when she was basically the best ADC?

A Miss Fortune3 votes

They are giving her a small visual update and changing her E (though for all we know, they could be nerfing it as they just said they were changing it.)

I agree that her passive is the main problem and that it could just be looked at to make her a bit less counterplayable.

BluePolarizer2 votes

MF is way better than Lucian. What are you talking about?

Last patch Lucian was the worst ADC in the game, worse than Urgot. This patch he made it bigtime, being just ahead of Urgot.

TheLastBaron884 votes

Nah Lucian's not worse. He actually does decent in tank meta because of his double shot interacting with Blade of the Ruined King. Plus having a dash to reposition or get over walls makes him a much better adc for solo queue.

But I do think he needs something different. Dashing around and bursting people is what Graves does. I really wish they would put more focus into the rest of Lucian's kit, instead of just loading a ton of easy damage on his Q. I'd even be ok with sacrificing either the range of his q, or have the damage diminish with range. Make it a last-ditch in your face burst move. Lucian to me suggests more rapid-fire crit/on-hits and kiting, thematically. Someone whose playstyle should require and reward optimal spacing just on the edge of danger.

BluePolarizer2 votes

It is not my opinion that Lucian is the worst ADC in the game next to Urgot - it is statistically true. He has more deaths, less kills, less gold, less damage and lower win rate than almost every other ADC.

And yeah, you know when Lucian was based on rapid fire and kiting? He got gutted. Literally every skill including passive was nerfed.

Rinky Dinky3 votes

You're one of those plebians xD

Silents4292 votes

Really, Out of all the champions you deem her the one that needs "help" ?

TheLastBaron882 votes

Really, did I say anywhere that she was the MOST in need, OR the only? I've been playing her the last couple days to confirm my suspicions, and also play a fair bit of ADC as I feel it is about the most balanced of roles in terms of champion diversity. Certainly one of the easier roles to balance, since all ADCs essentially do the same sort of thing, just in different ways.

I don't play Taric or Yorik and so don't have so much of an educated opinion on them. Take your baby rage elsewhere sir.

Silents4292 votes

Maybe I read this as English but "Who really needs help"

This implies she is some underrated champion that needs attention that never gets it, despite the fact she is in a fine place, with some needed touch ups on her abilities, which Riot already said were coming.

But by all means a couple days with a champion and you already try to deem what she supposedly needs, no shock there.

TheLastBaron882 votes

"English" isn't a place, it's a language. Implying that you aren't even up to date on basic geography.

Fine place... ok, get on twitch tv, find any channel with an ADC main playing, and ask them to play Miss Fortune. See what they have to say about it. Ask a couple of them. I guarantee you get about the same response across the board.

I play a fair bit of adc, kid. It's the role I play when I want to win, because with it, I have managed to drag potatoes kicking and screaming to victory, whether they wanted it or not. It's not my first day, or even couple of days, playing this champion. I don't play MF often because literally every other choice available is better in some way. Pfft, even Ashe is a more competitive pick now.

Silents4292 votes

*Maybe I read this as English

Ms Fortune is only in a shadow, she isn't in a bad spot she doesn't bring anything other ADCs do, but she is hardly in any priority for changes, which as I already said are coming anyway.

Don't attempt to patronize me by calling me a Kid, No one disagreed that she needed changes, only that you think she is of any priority.

And no shit Ashe is more competitive that was the sole point of the rework she just got.

Battlecast Sona2 votes

Here are some problems with MF (as a dedicated player).

Her kit currently excels (or feels like it should excel) at setting up wombo combos with her team. Her ultimate scales incredibly well with Black Cleaver and can be a big boost to your team's damage in a teamfight setting where you can get a lot of stacks off. Her E offers vision and slow at a decent range, her W gives grievous wounds and a stacking magic damage steroid as well, and her Q is an AA reset as well as a slightly increased damage/bounce to another target.

Miss Fortune is incredibly good at taking a lead in lane and turning it into a mid-game win with her ability to contribute damage to an entire enemy team from very far away while fighting for objectives (it's hard to avoid her full channeled ult if she's behind dragon pit and the enemy team gets caught doing baron). Her early game damage is fairly high and mixed, making it hard to itemize against when people only have 1 or 2 defensive items. The main issue is that her physical damage doesn't scale from abilities very well at all - her magical damage has better AD scaling than her physical (yes, that's true, read it again, main issue with this character right there).

The main issues from my experience:

Her ultimate's AD scaling was removed a while ago. She really, really needs it back - her physical damage scales in absolutely no meaningful way from the ultimate, and the Impure Shots change was not enough to make this ultimate really pack a punch after mid-game. Black Cleaver makes this spell at least have some utility, but the damage is pretty lackluster unless the enemy team is very squishy.

Her E needs mana cost reduction - the utility it offers is okay (gives sight and a fairly decent slow, with a persistent hitbox that can re-apply or apply to new people fairly easily). Currently though you want to use Q for AA resets too much, and this spell uses too much mana.

Her W is fine, really - for a steroid that is already pretty good at increasing her ASPD, it also gives her grievous wounds which makes it hard for a lot of ADCs to duel her and the magical damage makes her mid-game hard to itemize against. This spell in general is okay.

Her Q is decent, but imo needs some under the hood love for target acquisition - the damage/bounce is okay but sometimes the bounce is buggy.

Her passive needs to scale like Garen's - at level 11/16 it needs to stop being deactivated by anything but enemy champion damage, and I feel like it needs to get a buff at 11 or 16 as well to the amount of speed you get to really drive home her ability to rotate for objectives/push very well/etc. I feel like she could have a niche role as a really good splitpusher just by rotating very quickly and being able to run from ganks if she sees them coming (she's already good at it, but you can't take ANY minion damage or you get rekt).

TheLastBaron882 votes

I think you hit just about all of her issues on the head here. Only thing maybe is the passive scaling, it's already a huge movespeed buff, idk that it needs to be more. Just needs to be more useful in terms of how it can be used. I kinda like the idea of seeing Miss Fortune sprinting through teamfights mowing down stragglers and targets that are out of position, but I guess that could be a bit much.

Also, what if Make It Rain could apply your impure shots stacks?

Stellafreyja2 votes

Wow, I looked up her patch history to see how her skills have been affected. From her introduction to about 2 years later, she was nerfed anytime they did anything with her. Then it's been a mix of nerfs and buffs until the last time they did anything with her last September. She might be getting a slight rework soon, which might be helpful. I mean look at Ashe. She certainly didn't need a buff, but now look at her.

Gooberp2 votes

MF is fine; if you're wondering what her niche is, it is and has always been "AOE ult comps." No other ADC can capitalize as well on an Amumu/Malphite ult as MF. She excels in midgame and doesn't fall off late, although other adcs can catch up and outpace her. If you're focusing exclusively on 50 minutes everyone all items, then yes MF sucks, but that's not what she's for. She's a midgame carry because her mixed damage lets her damage around opponents that buy early armor; rushing two large AD items (BT IE probably) lets you do sustained damage way better than any other adc. In comparison to the ad casters like Graves, they do upfront burst that she can't compete with, but in an extended fight (like, idk, in a tank meta) her steroid + grievous wounds + magic damage outpaces them.

MF's lane bully queen status has been dampened with the release of champs like Draven, but she has other strengths to fall back on. Use her for those.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Not sure why, but for whatever reason she seems to hold her own in 1v1's better than most ADC's, also she seems to scale with lifesteal so much better than the others.

BluePolarizer4 votes

Q applies on hit effects and is an autoattack reset. The number of ADCs with an autoattack reset that applies on hit effects can be counted on 1 hand. Other champs that have autoattack resets which apply on-hit effects include Jax and Darius, both of whom are known for extremely high base damage. Her W is actually one of the biggest non-ultimate attack speed steroids in the game.

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

MF really does have a lot in her kit - auto reset, attack speed steroid, grievous wounds, massive damage in her ult. if she was safer she would be a top pick.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Do you know who really needs help?

Syndra Having her bugs not fixed for a year and nobody in Riot giving a shit about them. Once a half a year they claim they care, but nothing was done about them, until somebody overshot a nerf so hard it removed an ability from her hit.

No, no bugs were fixed then. Just made them less pronounced.

TheLastBaron882 votes

What is it with everyone bringing in their own issues with their own champion into a Miss Fortune thread?

Anyway yeah, I don't think she ever needed the nerfs to begin with. Playing an immobile mage like her was enough of a risk to justify her strength. Her stun is virtually unusable now, because it just flies off in whatever direction it chooses.

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