Lucian's Problem

TheLastBaron88··14 votes·2,378 views

I think the single biggest issue with Lucian (and the reason he's been left in the gutter for so long) is that he suffers from a serious identity crisis. What is he supposed to do? What does he offer that no one else does? What are his strengths, and perhaps more importantly, what are his weaknesses?

Straight up, imo, Lucian is just a worse version of Graves currently. His trade pattern is to dash in and blow his high damage burst abilities on a target and disengage or all-in from there. There's a bit more micro management with his passive, but essentially it's the same play pattern, though arguably even better because of the drawn out spread of guaranteed damage from his passive double shot. At the peak of his popularity, he was in fact just a better scaling Graves. He had a great early laning phase, solid mid game, and scaled decent into late game, with no real distinguishable weaknesses to punish other than maybe his low-ish attack range.

So Graves is the definitive champion for bursting a fool down at point blank and being tough guy, we can safely establish. Lucian has two guns. But he isn't the first adc with two guns, that would be Miss Fortune (who definitely needs work herself, and not what Riot is doing to her on PBE). Miss Fortune will forever reign in my mind as the Queen of AoE Teamfight Wombo as far as ADCs go, from back when her Ultimate actually had AD scaling (which I will argue it desperately needs again). But what does Lucian do? Based on what abilities Riot has given him and tweaked over the years, I'd say he should ideally fit into a mobile close range single-target face-melter, and not in a burst fashion like Graves, but with a rapid onslaught of attacks shredding his enemies to tattered pieces. He should probably be a better close range duelist against squishy targets than Vayne, at least damage-wise, since she is built around tankbusting and often out-duels other damage dealers using her cc and stealth.

Personally, I don't think Lucian will ever be a healthy champion while his play pattern centers around poking from range with the massive damage on Q. I think that ability makes a lot more sense as a point-blank kind of skill, maybe with reduced damage to targets further away. Currently it just consumes too much of his power budget imo. Even his passive took hits for it, and his passive probably SHOULD be his central trading tool.

Likewise, his W is pretty much only useful for proccing his passive. I'd personally like to see more utility shifted onto that, like a larger movespeed bonus that is refreshed when attacking an affected target, rather than being a one-and-done buff. Lucian should be a nimble champion who favors in and out trades, with serious chasing power for finishing kills, as well as allowing him to reposition more rapidly in fights. Additionally, I'd like to see better interaction with his Ultimate, to promote some actual kit synergy. Specifically, if his ultimate shots could proc the movespeed from hitting targets affected by W, allowing for superior chase and kiting. Additionally, to cement its use as a utility skill rather than a damage ability, it could trigger a debuff on enemies that when autoed repeatedly, ccs them somehow? Like a short root or stun, but it takes like 4 hits or more to do it. I only suggest this because the unfolding shape of the skill is very reminiscent of the trap box from Ghostbusters, which I assume was an intentional choice considering Lucian's background and theme. So it should be able to trap an enemy in place to take a face full of ultimate. I'm kind of imagining an effect similar to Viktor's Gravity field when the cc is procced, pulling the target into the deployed W. This could also open up some big plays by chaining his w, ult, passive, allowing you to potentially group up enemies for a big Q to the face.

His E was probably the most fun and synergistic when it had a low cd that was lowered further still by using his passive on champions. Being able to actively dash around fights was very cool, though breaking slows might have been just a little too much. I haven't played him much lately, so I dunno if it still interacts with his passive. I just think that was one of the best changes made to him, since it promotes what I think really should define him based on the concept of his kit, an in-your-face but just out of reach kind of guy, not unlike Vayne.

Returning to his ultimate, I think it is currently terribly out of place. The damage is much lower and harder to hit than just continually autoattacking, and so it's a poor choice for close in fights, while nothing else in his kit promotes a playstyle wherein you would attack opponents from far away. The range just doesn't fit, and the damage doesn't feel rewarding for the time and effort it takes to use the skill.

I remember hearing his ultimate was very briefly tested as proccing on hit effects (not sure if this included crit) and was determined to be extremely broken, but was it tested that way with a much shorter range? I really like the idea of the rapid stream of bullets blasting down foes, but I think it makes more sense as a last ditch get-out-of-my-face-kid use-case. That is to say, more damage, less range, and lifesteal for clutch duels? Not sure about letting it crit, but that would allow for a more crit attack speed build. I like the idea of it having damage comparable to a bunch of actual autos blasted out in a short space of time, balanced by the difficulty of landing each individual shot as a skillshot, but what sounds fun can often be entirely broken. That's just my two cents on the kind of thematic direction I think it should go in. I definitely think that Ultimate shots should proc lifesteal, just because of the duelist role his kit seems to suggest.

Namamall has suggested dividing his ult into segments tied to "charges", allowing Lucian to proc his passive more frequently (and consequently get in more dashes), as well as allowing him to better fulfill his "Two-Guns" fantasy, being able to actually shoot at different targets more rapidly while dashing towards targets and away from danger. Big shout-out to him, as that could in fact be the best change for making his kit more thematically cohesive and fantasy-fulfilling.

I rather like the idea of the charges working as a mix of Ahri's and Akali's systems, where you have a window of opportunity to spend your other charge(s), and can get more charges and an extended duration from kills and assists, but once that window is up, the ability goes on cooldown. That way you have a window of vulnerability as well.

Anyway, TL;DR: Lucian needs for Riot to decide what it is that they want his kit to do, and he needs them to make his kit synergistic within itself to that end if he is ever going to be both viable and balanced. His problem has always been that he is too good at everything and not too bad at anything.

You'll notice there are no numbers attached here; this is because I'm not a mathematician. Just some ideas and observations. Let me know what you think down below.

56 Comments

Moulin Rouge7 votes

And his ult is a piece of shit, in my opinion. He was the ADC without an ult because the damage it did was useless for all but clearing waves or finishing someone off that was out of auto attack range.

TheLastBaron882 votes

Agreed. I've always felt like it was stupid weak unless he has way too many levels on his opponent. And a weak ultimate is a weak champ imo, seeing as how they're supposed to be all character-defining and such.

stealthfox941 votes

Not true, it's good for bursting down people who are out of AA range.

TheLastBaron881 votes

But it doesn't do burst damage. It's a sustained long range pattern... which makes it a long range sustained poke skill? It just doesn't fit well with a close range kit is what I'm saying.

Moulin Rouge2 votes

{quoted}

Not true, it's good for bursting down people who are out of AA range.

When was the last time someone stood in direct fire of his ult? This doesn't even happen in bronze. D:

stealthfox941 votes

Huh? It happens all the time.

TheLastBaron881 votes

idk man, I can personally say I've only seen someone (who was actually the intended target and not a tank) take more than 3-4 shots like once. Maybe twice. But hey, maybe it does happen. What I do know is, if you want an adc with a longer range execute ultimate, better to play Caitlyn, Miss Fortune (even her miserable ult is a more reliable finisher), Graves (that ultimate has deceptive range and scores kills for me all the time), or Kog Maw. In fact, Kog Maw is probably the best for that. That ultimate effin hurts.

Namamall6 votes

Lucian's an (ironically) unique case of an unhealthy champion. His abilities are all (aside from his E) very unique, and he's pretty fun, yet he doesn't have a unique identity. I absolutely agree that he does need some slight changes, although they Riot's attention should focus on the champions in more dire need of help, the likes of Annie, Cho'Gath, and Poppy.

I think that ability makes a lot more sense as a point-blank kind of skill, maybe with reduced damage to targets further away.

I feel like reducing damage to farther targets makes the extension of the beam past the initial target feel useless. I don't think this is the way to go with it.

I'd personally like to see more utility shifted onto that, like a larger movespeed bonus that is refreshed when attacking an affected target, rather than being a one-and-done buff.

It already is a refreshing move speed boost, unless what you're saying you want the boost to be stronger, but have a lower duration. If so, then I agree with that entirely.

Additionally, to cement its use as a utility skill rather than a damage ability, it could trigger a debuff on enemies that when autoed repeatedly, ccs them somehow? Like a short root or stun, but it takes like 4 hits or more to do it.

That would actually be really cool, as long as it was implemented to feel natural and make sense. It would have to be really clear how him shooting you a bunch after being hit by a star shaped burst of light causes a bunch of more light to snare you.

His E was probably the most fun and synergistic when it had a low cd that was lowered further still by using his passive on champions. Being able to actively dash around fights was very cool.

Yeah it does in fact, still do this. I think his E is fine personally.

Returning to his ultimate, I think it is currently terribly out of place. The damage is much lower and harder to hit than just continually autoattacking, and so it's a poor choice for close in fights, while nothing else in his kit promotes a playstyle wherein you would attack opponents from far away.

I absolutely agree. More damage and less range is what I think his ult needs, and lifesteal would be helpful too.

If his ult doesn't feel cohesive enough, they could give it 3 regenerating charges that each last one second when activated, so that you could use your passive in combination with your ultimate, and help him deal with mobile enemies. There would be a cooldown in between casts, but reactivating the ultimate while you already had one going would extend the effect by one second and consume another charge, so that you can still use them all at once.

This would deal with the fact that his doesn't interact well with his ult, and it's harder to hit than basic attacks.


All in all, I think the major changes Lucian needs is more focus on his sustained damage, more significance to his W, and the damage/range adjustment to his ult, which is what you have suggested.

TheLastBaron883 votes

Thanks man, it means a lot to me that you actually took the time to read the whole post and offer specific feedback on various points.

Yeah idk what to do with Q. I like the idea of Lucian being great for kiting and all-in chases, so giving him too much poke in lane seems like where that was getting derailed. Plus Q looks visually like a stand-and-deliver skill. I'm really glad you like the W idea, I'm always skeptical about giving heavy damage dealers hard cc. For some reason I imagined the effect behaving a bit like Viktor's gravity field, which I hold to be one of the coolest abilities in the game. Only with more direct player interaction to make it work, of course. It can't just be free cc.

I think I like what you were saying about the ultimate. Are you saying having his ultimate divided into smaller "bursts" that are tied to a charge system? 'Cause I could see that being really cool, dashing about in the middle of a fight redirecting your fire in various directions. It would definitely better deliver on the gun-fu fantasy Lucian seems to evoke.

Namamall4 votes

It was my pleasure to read and reply to your post. You identified the issues with Lucian very well and had a great grasping of how to deal with those issues.

Having poke on his Q might not be such a bad thing. It isn't excessively long range poke and it's fairly difficult to land. Without it, he might not have lane pressure due to his short range.

It does feel weird though, since you stand still for a moment while you cast it. It feels very precise and calculated, but kind of interrupts the flow of the rest of his kit. It might help to allow his Q to be cast while moving, like his W, although that might just feel weird.

As for the W, I'm just trying to imagine it visually. Maybe the person you hit gets brighter and brighter as you hit them until they're snared? The visuals should explain how the snare happens, and I'm not quite sure how to do that, although I love the idea.

You hit what I was going for with the ult change spot on with that description. Just for clarity: You activate his ult, consume one charge, and shoot for 1 second. During that one second, you can expend more charges to extend the duration, but once you stop shooting, you're locked out for a few seconds.

If you really like my idea for the ultimate, by all means, feel free to put it into your original post.

TheLastBaron882 votes

Hmm, visually, yeah the W effect would look really cool if targets started getting a brighter and brighter ethereal sort of out-of-sync glow as you shot them, so it kinda looks like you are anchoring their spirits to the box?

Thinking on the synergy between that and your ultimate idea, you could theoretically land a good W on multiple enemies, and use your ultimate charges and passive procs to quickly bind multiple enemies all at once.

Better still, if it had a Gravity Field effect where afflicted targets are pulled back to where the W landed, you could set up a really nice aoe burst on your Q. I really like champions with complex mechanics like that who can make the big plays. Maybe balance that by having a fairly short capture window.

Thank you Namamall, I think I'll do just that. Hey what would you think about making his ultimate charges like Ahri's? Where he has a time limit to activate the other charges, except that he could get an extended duration and an extra charge for kills and assists? That way he wouldn't have the always-off-cooldown effect of say Akali. I do especially like that with short bursts on the charges, you get more passive procs for more dashing. I felt his kit kinda lacked the ability to do what they wanted with his mobility just because of cooldowns on his abilities.

Namamall4 votes

The more I imagine this, the more I like it.

About the Gravity Field type pull, I don't think that it would work, unfortunately. With Gravity Field, everyone who gets pulled is contained within the little bubble of the stun zone. With Lucian's W, they can freely move, and it could take up to 6 seconds for them to actually be snared and pulled. It could work if you did use that fairly short capture window, but I don't think the idea makes very much sense visually or logically. Light snaring is tolerable, but light picking you up and throwing you, that's another story. Honestly I don't think it's necessary, because if Lucian does land a multi bind, he can probably position to line up a queue without a shockwave effect to do the work for him.

I definitely like that Ahri style charge system more than the ammo system that I used originally. The little Akali-esque part I like a lot as well, feels like it goes with his high risk high reward gameplay.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Yeah I figured the Shockwave effect might be pushing it. I just love kit synergy so much. Plus I was concerned about clearly communicating what was causing the cc. But I guess you could have that glowy ethereal effect change into a tether when the cc is stacked up, visually linking your targets to where the W landed? I had thought it best for a strong cc like this to have only like a 2-3 second window to limit its use in zoning opponents, but even still, a lot of mobility can happen in 3 seconds. I've also been thinking about if there were slow attached to where the W unfolds (like actually where the 6 prongs drop). Maybe not a huge one, but definitely one that drops off immediately once you are out of the aoe.

Do you think the movespeed procs should stay on his W? Because thematically they seem necessary, but in practice they are weak to the point of invisibility. Probably needs to be stronger. But is it better to have them tied to a skill which provides hard cc, or to put it onto his E, which is currently JUST a dash with the ability to lower the cd using his passive? I mean, it IS called "Relentless Pursuit", so should attacking a champion after using your dash grant the movespeed?

Namamall4 votes

I think the W movespeed boost needs to be much stronger, but much shorter. Right now it's a flat 40/45/50/55/60, for two seconds. The duration of the boost forces it to be much weaker. and that's why it doesn't feel noticeable. Shortening the duration at least down to a second while simultaneously increasing the amount of boost should help it feel tangible. As for that slow field idea, I think the vision, speed boost, and snare are enough for one ability. Otherwise it would end up feeling overloaded.

As for moving the boost onto the dash, I like it more on his W. Lucian's dash doesn't feel weak to me, and I think it's fine as it is.

TheLastBaron882 votes

Yeah i thought as much. It's easy to overload an ability when you wanna make something awesome and fun. So like, currently, does the effect last two seconds, but only proc once on the same target? What if it was a much shorter duration for hitting them once, but you could maintain the effect by continuing to hit afflicted targets? That way it's less effective as an escape, but great for maintaining a good position as the fight unfolds. How long does the 'debuff' that allows you to proc the movespeed actually stay on targets currently?

Man, I really wish someone like @Meddler would chance upon this thread and share his thoughts.

Namamall4 votes

Right now the mark that allows you to get the move speed lasts for 6 seconds. When you proc it, it gives you the movespeed for 2 seconds, and the mark does not disappear, so you can continue reapplying it.

TheLastBaron882 votes

That's too funny, 6 seconds was what I would have suggested changing it to, lol. Yeah I totally agree with you then, a shorter duration for a stronger effect would be much better. I don't know why they didn't do it that way in the first place.

Namamall2 votes

Just by the way, I would recommend splitting your post into different sections. It's getting a little messy.

Something as simple as

  • Overview
  • Problems
  • Ideas

would make the post a lot easier to read.

LytesPHD5 votes

Just fucking give him 550 range and ill be the happiest mother fucker alive

stealthfox941 votes

He use to have 550, people complained about it so they nerfed him.

Fadedpf3 votes

He is strong, he was too strong so he got nerfed a lot. If he gets fed now hes basically old lucian, ton of damage, burst and mobility, maybe qol buffs but thats it

MohawkBird2 votes

That's basically any ADC though, besides the mobility.

Fadedpf3 votes

He can pump out fast crits though with his Double shot. Which gives him extra lifesteal, hes a mobile bully which is what hes good at. In the right hands he is great, he used to be viable for anyone no matter if you were a good adc or not. I am glad they changed bot lane from Lucian + Braum Blitzcrank Thresh Leona meta to allowing other adcs to be played. Blame season 4

YCitizenSnipsY4 votes

You lost me at he is strong, you do know he is one of the worst performing adc's in the game right now right?

Fadedpf2 votes

Twitch HELLO?

YCitizenSnipsY4 votes

Still doesn't answer my question of why you refereed to him as strong when he's performing terrible in solo q and competitive. Also champion.gg actually ranks Twitch above Lucian lol

Fadedpf1 votes

What do you want to happen? Buffed Q or Passive? That will make him way to strong like before and he will snow ball each game. Team coordination is a thing you know. A good support and jungler can help you get ahead instead of Lucian doing all the work like before. If he gets any good buffs he will probably get getted 3 times over once again.

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

A good support and jungler can help any adc get ahead, and they are far better once they are ahead than Lucian.

I do believe that his passive needs to be buffed, the whole double guns thing is core to his identity and the passive directly plays of that. As far as how that change would affect his strength I cant say, though I am skeptical that it would make him op, since these are the same boards that said the last jinx nerfs we gonna hit her really hard.

Remlap12233 votes

You can thank Riot for their pseudo rework for that. During his inception, he had an identity as a long range poke/burst AD caster. After Riot tweaked his kit, they actually made him more broken, while simultaneously removing his identity and turning him into Graves 2.0. Then they dumpstered him and turned him into Graves 0.5.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Yeah I didn't think he was all that broken on release, he had like zero playrate. Idk what they did to him, but he ended up being legit all around good at everything.

Remlap12232 votes

Yep, he was a lane bully that hypercarried. Sure, you've got Tristana who does the same thing, but Lucian was a lot more safer, and did way more damage than Tristy did, even back when she was cheesing with her stupid E. The lack of range didn't stop the fact that you just couldn't catch him if he was running away from you, and you couldn't escape from him if he was chasing you (thank God they removed the slow removal on his E.)

Durzaka3 votes

Lucian is in such a bad place right now because they couldnt decide what they wanted him to be.

Originally he was a straight up better Graves. A caster ADC with great burst and trading that made up for his slightly lower sustained damage.

Then they decided they want him to be more mobile, so they did the whole E and passive interaction rework. But then they decided they didnt like how that worked, so they gutted him. Then they released Kalista, so his mobility is pointless.

So his 2 core identities got removed and are are other ADCs that are outright better than him right now.

TheLastBaron881 votes

I cannot overstate how much I agree with this statement.

The one thing I will say is, they could probably still take him down the mobility route like kalista, and they could better define him as a unique champion that way, just because of the way Kalista's damage is backloaded (she usually goes a lifesteal build with minimal if any crit, and has to stack her spears before using the execute). Kalista's dueling power vs high damage carries is practically non-existent when it comes to full build late game. Her power comes from kiting down the front line. Lucian, by having traditional adc scalings, would easily beat her in a 1v1, even without having the front-loaded burst of Graves. Especially with the nerf to Kalista's autoattacks. It's kind of like the difference between tank-killers and face-melting assassins. I don't even think she needed the nerfs tbh.

Chespin20133 votes

His W is so useless all its good for is proccing his passive and that it has a ap damage makes no sense to me have on a adc

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

if you want to buff his dmg, nerf his mobilit. WE don't need LUcian Bolt running around like last time they tried to buff him.

TheLastBaron884 votes

I think mobility and burst are Graves' things. I think mobility and a more sustained damage pattern (thus creating longer windows of vulnerability when coupled with his short range) would fit better for Lucian. But that's just my opinion.

Drunk Rummate3 votes

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if you want to buff his dmg, nerf his mobilit. WE don't need LUcian Bolt running around like last time they tried to buff him.

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TheLastBaron881 votes

It's funny, but I found Mobility Lucian to be much more satisfying than Kalista, since his mobility was on-demand rather than being a passive on his autos.

That said, I really don't see why everyone has such a huge beef against Kalista. She gets demolished by nearly every other adc 1v1 because of her backloaded damage pattern.

Schenix2 votes

I feel he needs a lot of tweaks tbh.

His W kiting should be built upon since it's honestly just a good mechanic for ADC's and rewards them for doing what ADC's do if they do it well. I can't say how because there's just so many ways to go about this.

His ult having a little more damage and perhaps gaining damage on how many double shots were hit on an enemy (mark damage per x time frame) would be nice too. It turns into a tool that rewards your fighting from any range appropriately (scaling).

His Q's scaling makes it not need anything else, it's a tactical nuke of an ability for an ADC that's on par with only Graves, except Lucy can use it at longer range.

His E being free mana at max rank seems to fit, but I feel it should also enhance his next ability OR allow him to double shot. Diversity and not just a pure blast playstyle. Iffy on this though because it deviates slightly from his identity.

stealthfox942 votes

Meh I still don't think Lucian's as bad as people say. His ult is better than people give it credit for. That being said he does feel kind of odd to play unless you are really fed, and Graves is better in most situation since he's tankier and actually has CC.

TheLastBaron881 votes

He's totally playable. It just leaves you with the question of "why?" There's a better adc for just about any situation. Riot didn't give him a firm individual identity, so at the height of his popularity he was just the safe pick that could do everything sorta good.

Moulin Rouge2 votes

I think Lucian just needs a rework tbh. His Q is fine, his W needs something different, his E is fine and his ult needs a total scrap. It's useless.

NoMonku1 votes

If it procced on hit affects, it made item 3115 and AP lucian broken. Lucian was nerfed to the ground because of how much power he had in his kit, making it so basically anyone could play him, suck, and still stomp his lane. Right now at higher levels, his ability to Q poke is what lets him win his laning phase. Once it ends, he plays essentially the same as the old lucian, just he isn't as over powering unless you got fed in lane.

As for comparison to graves, he is somewhat similar, but Lucian outscales Graves and is different because of a few differences. Graves is an early to mid game dominant ADC who can easily bully his lane once he gets ahead. He can also 100-0 squishies with his combo if he lands it correctly, being of of the only ADC's w/ a hard burst combo similar to a mage. These abilities, though, make him fall off in the late game because he is very short ranged. He can basically do the same or more damage from AA and this is where he starts running into problems. This is where Lucian starts to shine. His mobility lets him pick and choose his fights incredibly easy. He never has to facecheck either because of his W and R(though this isn't a good use of his R). His R also lets him poke from outside his AA range, letting him either poke before a fight or to pick people off.

TheLastBaron882 votes

Meh, I guess AP Nashors Lucian was ridiculous to be sure, I saw quite a bit of that on youtube early on. But I would use the word gimmicky, not broken. No one in their right mind would stand around taking that kind of damage. Very easy to avoid or outplay, and it's a one-and-done playstyle. I'm more interested by how it could affect his AD builds. Not to mention I'm also in favor of greatly reducing the range in favor of boosting the number of shots over the same duration, which requires riskier positioning for rewarding damage.

Honestly I think Graves having a bad late game is a huge misconception. He ends up being arguably more mobile than lucian because his dash lowers cd on every auto (and is a decent attack speed buff), especially with some cdr. He excels at defending himself against melee assassins, being able to easily combo squishy damage dealers with just abilities and maybe a single auto. Graves really only sucks at killing tanks, and even then, he's still an ADC and can totally do it with a full build. Just not as fast as say Ashe, Jinx or Vayne. I don't really feel like Graves has a weak phase in the game, as long as he doesn't fall behind early and plays smart. He carries hard if he gets ahead.

NoMonku1 votes

I'm talking about the theory behind Graves, not your personal opinions. Graves is inferior late game because of his shorter AA range. He can do fine if he snowballs ahead, he is designed to be able to do that, but later in the game he is winning because he is ahead, not because he is an actual good late game champion. Compared to Lucian, Trist, Jinx, Kog, Twitch, and Caitlyn he is inferior late game because they can easily dish out damage while still being safe where he would have to put himself at risk to do damage.

AP nashors Lucian is broken in terms of when he was released with it because could poke you out or kill you then just walk away, without any retalliation. It also has a shorter CD since he has CDR, letting him poke someone out very often.

TheLastBaron881 votes

*was broken, seeing as how it was never a thing on live servers, to my knowledge. Pretty sure it was only a thing on PBE, but I could be mistaken.

Second, damn dude you don't have to make it personal. I'm just saying Graves doesn't have as bad a late game as a lot of players think. His attack speed steroid does work, and it's an unspeakably big advantage being able to nuke would-be assassins with your abilities. Those guys are usually a nuisance.

Sohleks1 votes

Lucian has 2 niche niche selling points currently

• late game assassin-esque burst rotations on "low cooldown"; Lucian is potent for it but it takes great care due to the timing of the game, and confident positioning requirements... multiple times, because the real power is the "low cooldown" of the rotation compared to needing an ultimate • decent waveclear; potent waveclear with ultimate

So for much of the game for the average player he is outclassed by Graves or something that's a little more durable, ranged and burstier with abilities harder to miss. But Lucian still sees play by very skilled Lucian players and world class teams... Yet I think Lucian could stand to see maybe a slight boost in power either mid game or very early. Maybe increase rank 5 Q for mid game power... Dare we tweak his mobility again..?

I think an early lane boost is safer. If you boost the power of his early skill ranks it will not boost his already strong late game. And besides Lucian kind of feels lackluster in lane these days, at least compared to before.

TheLastBaron881 votes

Safer, maybe. But safety was kind of his problem. Plus any way you slice it, Graves is a better lane bully. If he weren't, there would be no reason to play him. That's why I think Lucian should be more mid-late game focused, instead of early-mid, with an emphasis on mid game and early team fights.

I mean, currently there's like no point in the game where an even matched Lucian can outduel a Graves, simply because Graves is just a better Lucian. Or more accurately, Lucian is a better Graves. I mean, Graves could miss his ult I guess, but that would require a pretty big mistake on his part.

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